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Offlinewoleb
below
Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 135
Loc: South Australia
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
The Truth
    #1939756 - 09/22/03 05:01 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I was thinking about why mind altering substances which cause no serious harm to the user are illegal, and more importantly, why so little has been done to publicly stop the spread of propaganda spewed forth by the government and media. Sites like the Shroomery and Erowid provide non-biased, fact based information but unless someone is looking specifically for the information, they aren't likely to find it.
Surely there is someone with a bit of money sympathetic to the cause who would be willing to help fund a compaign of some sort - even just putting up fliers or even a billboard advertising the lies put into the public eye, and displaying places people can go for ACCURATE information. I know it seems somewhat unrealistic and an "it'd be nice but it ain't gonna happen" scenario, but if enough people got informed, and got angry at the government, it would spread, and couldn't something be done?
It's happened before. Look at any revolution; the people got angry at the government's behaviour and protested. I'm not talking about initiating a revolution, I'm just saying that with a bit of effort the dangerous spread of lies surrounding drugs could be reduced somewhat.

I'm just mentally tossing it around, don't take me too seriously :tongue: 


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You'll thank me when you share my politics!


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InvisibleMOTH
Wild Woman
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Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,378
Loc: In the jungle
Re: The Truth [Re: woleb]
    #1939766 - 09/22/03 05:12 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I hear you man. And you know what? If I was ever wealthy enough I would completely fund the cause. I wish that there was a cause like that out nowadays. I mean, I could do little things like put catchy fliers around town and stuff, but I wish that there was a full fledged campaign towards it.

-ShadeGirl


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Offlinewoleb
below
Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 135
Loc: South Australia
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: The Truth [Re: MOTH]
    #1939781 - 09/22/03 05:20 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Hmmmm... Methinks a political party would perhaps be a good idea. A very OUTSPOKEN political party. We have a hemp party here in South Australia but they are so small I'm not sure whether they actually exist or are just a joke :frown:


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Registered: 04/17/03
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Re: The Truth [Re: woleb]
    #1939812 - 09/22/03 05:43 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hmmmm... Methinks a political party would perhaps be a good idea. A very OUTSPOKEN political party. We have a hemp party here in South Australia but they are so small I'm not sure whether they actually exist or are just a joke




Its a nice thought but it isn't going to happen anytime soon, unless there is a large shift in public mood.
Even if "we" had a very outspoken political party its opinions would simply be debunked.
People aren't going to take a party that is pro-dugs seriously due to the stereotypical views propagated by the mainstream media and politicians.
People aren't really interested in the actual facts and history behind mankinds use of substances even if they are told, they don't really take it in..
Its far easier for them to take-in "that poor girl who took an ecstasy pill and died" or "that evil drug dealer who went round robbing old ladies" it puts a human face on the problem.
The government doesn't, or doesn't want to, acknowledge the existance of responsible drug users so they simply try to re-inforce the stigma(s) they have created...


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The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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Offlinewoleb
below
Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 135
Loc: South Australia
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
Re: The Truth [Re: st0nedphucker]
    #1939847 - 09/22/03 06:05 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"People aren't going to take a party that is pro-dugs seriously due to the stereotypical views propagated by the mainstream media and politicians.
People aren't really interested in the actual facts and history behind mankinds use of substances even if they are told, they don't really take it in.."

Yeah, that's true.

But consider this. After believing something you'd been told for 10+ years of your life, it's suddenly (or over a period of time), proved incorrect. Wouldn't you be angry at those who fostered the beliefs, and seek to expose the myths encouraged by them, or at least try and screw them up? I know I would. I figure that by showing people how ignorant and gullible they can be, and how easily manipulated by the government, they'd be a bit pissed off. Especially if they learnt what they're missing out on :laugh:


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InvisibleSHiZNO
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Registered: 03/14/03
Posts: 1,467
Re: The Truth [Re: woleb]
    #1939880 - 09/22/03 06:40 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Well, the truth is, people can do stupid things on drugs...
If it was legal you should require some sort of license...


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Offlinest0nedphucker
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Re: The Truth [Re: SHiZNO]
    #1939892 - 09/22/03 06:56 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Well, the truth is, people can do stupid things on drugs...




People can do stupid things when they're completely sober. Governmments are appointed to do what the majority wants them to and the majority of people believe drugs are bad mmmkay....
Its all to do with what is socially acceptable, and peoples views of what is deemed to be acceptable change all the time whether it be drug use, political views or sexuality. I think more effort should be focused on educating people about drugs and their effects rather than scaremongering.

Quote:

If it was legal you should require some sort of license...




I agree with that in a sense, people should have to demonstrate knowledge and understanding of the substances that they choose to use...

BTW, I think this thread is in the completely wrong forum :smile:




--------------------
The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: The Truth [Re: woleb]
    #4764380 - 10/06/05 04:53 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

You know what happens after all those people get angry and protest and have a revolution against the government? They start up a new government...
Anyhow, maybe reducing the lies about the government is not the way to go. Maybe the way to go is to make psychedelic drugs invisible. To distract the public, media and political attention away from them. Don't make billboards saying "Mushrooms can cure terminal depression", make billboards that tell everyone how terrible crack, cigarettes and other things are.  What is needed is for, e.g., mushrooms to be non-regulated and inconspicuous. No one should give a shit that mushrooms are out there, neither corporations trying to cash in, hospitals or lawmakers. NOTE: this is just one of many interesting pipedreams :smile:


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OfflineEternalMetal
Member of theBlack LabelSociety
Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 126
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
Re: The Truth [Re: Lakefingers]
    #4764535 - 10/06/05 05:16 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Its a good idea, but would be impossible to implement properly.  the government is simply too strong.  My mom recently got a book about this guy who has spent millions trying to expose the government lies about medical help, and that we have cures for deseases like MS and AIDS, and that they know how certain medications will either be proved ineffective or kill 20,000 people, but he is obviously fighting a losing battle.  I already figured that the medical industry already knows how to battle any type of desease and keep us desease free, but hey, the government makes money on this.  And with the drug war, they make just as much.  It just wouldn't work.  It kinda sucks that drugs get such a bad wrap, ezpecially mind expanding drugs, but their is nothing you can do about it.  And then their are going to be the majority of peoiple who are going to side with the government, and the people whose jobs depend on the general public's ignorance.

so it is just like you said, a nice idea, but it aint gonna happen.  Just continue to do drugs like you do now, and just inform other people about it.  But this is what all drug users do, they socialize with others and talk about how much drugs have helped them.  So your not alone. 

Then their are those people who say, "I dont need drugs to help me do anything, their is a better way to do anything without drugs."  Its a good argument and i hate it to death.  Like mind expansion, we can do that all through meditation.  and feeling good, we can do that by being physically active and doing active things that really invoke our interests.  Are drugs simply the easy way out, otherwise known as cheating?  Are drug users just looking for an easy way to feel good or an easy way to expand their mind and learn about themselves? 

their are simply too many questions, even among drug users that non-drug users will question to death.  and the thing is, we dont have the answers.  Way too hard of a goal.  why dont we take a crack at world peace instead? :smile:


--------------------
DXM and Weed = Happy


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Offline3six5
Psychenaught
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 397
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Re: The Truth [Re: EternalMetal]
    #4764897 - 10/06/05 06:34 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

the gov't makes more money on it being illegal


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OfflineMrMolotov
Ganja Patrol
Male

Registered: 06/12/05
Posts: 640
Loc: SoCal
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: The Truth [Re: 3six5]
    #4765292 - 10/06/05 08:01 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

HM well I could possible raise a little money Cu's my mom has a copy machine for her crafting news letter i could buy more toner and paper and make flyer's and possible place them in my high school with info on where to get accurate drug information.
granted they would be taken down after a day but people would still be able to read them before that happens might help open peoples minds some what.


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OI OI OI


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OfflineNashbar
just strange.... on drugs
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Registered: 07/16/05
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Re: The Truth [Re: woleb]
    #4765327 - 10/06/05 08:09 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

woleb said:
I was thinking about why mind altering substances which cause no serious harm to the user are illegal




are you serious? what substances were you thinking of exactly? I'm positive you can't name a chemical that really causes no harm to anyone.

This is the problem with any drug legalization movement. Drugs are detrimental to a persons health and effect people around you, no matter what you try to convince yourself of. You, me, the "government and media" aren't stupid. Everyone knows what drugs do to people and choose not to make them available to all the fucking idiots of the world to avoid the problems that drug use causes.


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:pacman: :mushroom2:



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Offlinenycomyco
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Registered: 11/13/03
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Re: The Truth [Re: Nashbar]
    #4765896 - 10/06/05 10:06 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Prohibition isn't around to protect us. The US War on Drugs, both here and internationally, wreaks much more havoc than drug use itself.

Sure, most people in the US think that keeping drugs illegal is a good idea. But, the current policy did not come about as a result of public influence. it was quite the opposite. The current policy is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to american values, like freedom. Did Reagan and Bush change the coke laws as a result of escalating public fear? No! Before Bush Sr. came out and said that crack is the modern epedemic, public perceived fear over crack was less than 5%, and after all the media hype, terrible science, and money, this rose to 60%. Did the "crack baby" scare come around when people realized that crack babies were fucked up? No! As it turns out, crack babies don't even exist (not to mention, if they did they would be the same as cocaine babies). This is not just a new phenomenon. In the 20th century, whenever there was legislation against a drug, whether it was taxation or prohobition, the government created propaganda wherein the drug in question was associated with deviants. Heroin was the drug of the dirty chinamen, cocaine was the mexicans, marijuana was the negroes who get high and rape white women (I might be mixing these up). Here's a quote from Harry Anslinger, the "father of the drug war" and head of the bureau of narcotics from 1936:

"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the U.S., and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and others.?

What a nice guy. As it turns out, the racism is still inherent in the policy, its just hidden.

This, combined with DuPont's new interest in hydrocarbon based synthetic fibers in the face of clear evidence that hemp-based fiber was better in every possible way, led to a governmental crusade against cannabis. Also, alcohol prohibition RWM needed work since alcohol was relegalized, so they just changed the drug. These are the same years that films like "reefer madness" came out to scare people into believing outrageous ideas like -pot makes you go crazy and kill people-.

The main reason for the drug war is money. That's the bottom line. Prohibition is a money maker! It makes money for the government and it makes money for drug dealers. Prisons are companies. They are unique because the commodities they deal in are humans (kind of like slavery- sounds nuts, but think about it). The easiest way to get humans is to create crime, and you create crime by prohibiting something that isn't really a crime. This creates 2 kinds of criminals. The first kind are those who are criminalized simply because of the new law. The others come about because prohibition creates a black market, and so it creates real crime. Despite however much the government claims they go after the real drug crime, it is obvious from the makeup of prisons (most drug inmates are non-violent offenders, mostly marijuana) that they find it much easier to go after the street-dealers and possessors. Of these, the easiest to put in prison are poor underrepresented young people of color. They cost us 10s of thousands of dollars a year, and they are fucked when they're in prison and they're fucked when they get out, if they do.

The idea of legalization is a joke for most people. But, the drug war has only been around since the 60s, give or take a decade for complications. Drugs were not all legal before then, but there was no system of imprisonment.

There is no scientific basis for US drug policy. None. There's a lot of bad science, though. Unfortunately, the government blocks all science from truly exploring the harms and benefits of these drugs. Sometimes they say, "the juries still out," but that's because they use sleazy methods of blocking real science. You can test the atom bomb a hundred times in new mexico, but you can't research the medicinal benefits of marijuana? It's a complete joke. The few times the government did support drug research are also a joke. Nixon created a committee, himself, to investiage the harms of marijuana. All 20 scientists came back and said: there are no harms. Marijuana is about as safe as can be. There's no evidence to suggest that it should be illegalized. It has promise as a medicine. Of course, that was brushed under the table. Now, the only drug research the gov supports are studies that are TRYING to find the harms. This is terrible science.

The government often says locking people up for using drugs is "tough love." That is a joke. There is nothing loving about being in jail. Sending someone to jail is a violent act that the goverment is more than happy to commit.

Not only that, but the War on Drugs isn't even working!!! Drugs are cheaper, more available, drug use hasn't dropped, more kids are doing drugs, blackmarket drug crimes have increased. It's a complete and utter failure, but nonetheless most people still find it acceptable that we are locking people up (locking up the "slime"), and spending ungodly amounts of money that could be directed toward helping the neighborhoods which blackmarket drug crime and drug arrests have devastated, and to helping the people who's lives are taken over by drug abuse.

It's a complete joke and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.


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Offlinenycomyco
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Registered: 11/13/03
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Re: The Truth [Re: nycomyco]
    #4765952 - 10/06/05 10:18 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

So, some drugs are obviously more dangerous than others. Drug abuse can be Hell. Some drugs are relatively harmless and actually have many benefits. But the idea of drug war vs legalizaion/reform is much much deeper than individual drug risks. If wer'e talking risks, alcohol and tobacco are a much bigger problem.
To me, comparing shrooms to heroine is like comparing the weightlessness of outerspace to shooting arrows in the air and trying to dodge them as they fall. They are completely different. Nonetheless, is it right to send one person to jail over another one just because one put something in his body that is potentially more dangerous? No! There's no logic there.
I started out investigating drug policy because I thought it wasn't fair that i couldn't legally buy the drugs i wanted. But, I quickly realized that the problem was a million times bigger than that.


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: The Truth [Re: nycomyco]
    #4769225 - 10/07/05 03:08 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

That was well put nycomyco, it's hard to believe you're an American!


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Offlineixitwistedixi
The TwIsTeD One

Registered: 07/22/05
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Re: The Truth [Re: Lakefingers]
    #4769234 - 10/07/05 03:11 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

People dont speak out because of the persacution. Look at Andy Hoffman.


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InvisibleLakefingers

Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,439
Loc: mumuland
Re: The Truth [Re: nycomyco]
    #4769243 - 10/07/05 03:12 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

I was away from the recreational drug community for a while and now that I return to it I find it astounding (once again) that most drugs are illegal. What is also interesting is how "people" equate legalization with decriminialization. They are not the same and maybe decriminilization is what e.g. cannabis-orgs should focus on.


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Offlineixitwistedixi
The TwIsTeD One

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Re: The Truth [Re: Lakefingers]
    #4769252 - 10/07/05 03:14 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

You mean like NORML? The are for the decriminalization or reformation rather of Marijuana Laws


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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 Arcade Champion: Airfox

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: The Truth [Re: ixitwistedixi]
    #4770375 - 10/07/05 08:27 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ixitwistedixi said:
People dont speak out because of the persacution. Look at Andy Hoffman.



It think people don't speak out on mushrooms because in general, people don't care about mushrooms. Ask the average person out there if mushrooms are plants, a lot of them think they are or simply don't know.

People are thinking about money, family, jobs, etc... if they are thinking of drugs it is pot, mdma or cocaine... mushrooms are low on the list.

I was recently talking with a "drug user" about mushrooms, she said she's afraid of them. She also said she likes cocaine. This is typical of many drug users who just want to escape reality, rather than confront it.

Quote:

nycomyco said:
The idea of legalization is a joke for most people. But, the drug war has only been around since the 60s, give or take a decade for complications. Drugs were not all legal before then, but there was no system of imprisonment.



The best shot at getting shrooms legalized lies in clinical testing with cluster headache sufferers. If psilocin/psilocybin are shown to help treat this disorder mushrooms and lsd will be changed to SCHEDULE 2.

This will open up the doors for more testing on LSD/mushrooms and may someday allow psychedelic therapists to prescribe pure psilocin/psilocybin.

Sorry to ramble on like that... good discussion so far!


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,998
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Re: The Truth [Re: ixitwistedixi]
    #4770384 - 10/07/05 08:28 PM (11 years, 7 months ago)

you stop the drug war by:
1) plastering the most racist governmental quotes you can find for everyone to see in seductive ways... anti-black is probably the most offensive and therefore best way to go.....

2) showing that THE WAR ON DRUGS is bad, JUST SAY NO! Who gives the first damn about how benefical drugs are? No one will listen to that, no one will care, and you'll sound like a loser. But if we expose how ghastily inefficient and expensive and harmful the war on drugs itself is, then effective decriminalization policies will follow. (and pot will more than likely be legalized)

you kill the drug war by exposing how horrible the war is to begin with, not by how great certain types of people think mushrooms and acid are.

somehow I think if bought a billboard along a highway and put some anti-drug propoganda quote about "negros" up for the world to see, it would be shut down for violating "obscenity" laws.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (10/07/05 08:31 PM)


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