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Offlinebigd17
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built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice.
    #19396816 - 01/10/14 12:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

so today i built a magnetic stirrer.

i used a 120mm pc fan, a 12 pack of neodymium magnets (very small and look like washers [have a hole in the middle ya dig?]), i got a plastic fan cover that i had to take apart so i could face the hollow side down as i have the magnets stacked 4 high on either end of the circle...

that sounded contrary to the rules of a circle but those of you who have built one know what i mean they arent in the middle they are near the edges opposite eachother. 

anyways i used an old baby monitor cord to splice to the fan for the power source.

the fan is 12v and the cord is only 9v.  i know that less power is ok as too much power will burn out the motor, but thus far i've had a hell of a time just getting anything to spin properly inside of it.

first tried a single magnet and it flew around all crazy like, which i supposed could work insofar as to break the mycelium up but it wouldnt generate a vortex.

i tried adding more magnets: stopped the fan completely due to too much friction via tension against the glass.

i tried nails, small screws, tiny drill bits, i even tried using some of these items with a magnet on either end so as to reduce the surface area thereby reducing the friction, and had some minimal success but usually these things would stop moving and fall to one side of the jar very quickly.

i finally settled on a short (approx. 1.5 in piece of wire twisted tightly up and it functions the way a magnetic stir bar should but does not generate enough speed or have enough surface area to pull the water down into a vortex.

just looking at the water it doesnt even appear to be moving.

i tried dropping a pinch of salt into and watched it twirl downwards in a spiral eventually settling in the bottom corners of the jar where it appears to have stopped moving as it's either too heavy or entirely protected from the current.

i'm sure this will work but i tend to be a bit of a perfectionist and want it to work right.

do i need higher voltage?

could a potentiometer increase the fan speed or is it going it's max speed right now being directly connected? 

i know i cant go over 12v as far as my power output goes and i'm pretty sure to stay on the safe side i'm supposed to remain a bit under anyways.

so basically... wtf? anyone got any advice?


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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OfflineCamtaro420
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: bigd17]
    #19396885 - 01/10/14 12:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:yeahokaywaitwhat:

Just when I thought this hobby was simple.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: Camtaro420]
    #19396894 - 01/10/14 12:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

the higher the voltage the faster the fan will spin usually

I recommend a small thin nail in the bottom, works better than screws often , and doesnt get stuck
chews mycellium better in LCs it seems

flat bottom jars are best too... curved is bad, the nail gets stuck
and screws stuck much more easily

nail is best IMO, easier to get going, works best

if you want to make good LC lids
red RTV injection port
clip of 1½" piece of a syringe, put in polyfill, glue onto jar as air port for LC
then you will have a very nice and contam resitant LC
worked good for honey LC for me, just dont store over 3-6months, LCs have limited shelf life

the wider the injection port the better it seems, so you avoid introducing contams by drawing out near the same injection hole as before
one day I want a LC with 4 injection ports + air in the middle, so I dont have to repair them at all almost
but if only using 1 injection port I would place it in one end of the jar lid
and the air port in the other end, so you can tilt the jar a lot without LC going into the air filter

then the only question is , 10ml, 20ml, 50ml syringes?:-)
I prefer 20ml, but for pftek 10ml is nicer
for everything else 20ml is best IMO, or above 20ml for bags maybe, but even there 20ml is plenty
usually make 5-10 syringes at a time or so


Edited by lessismore (01/10/14 01:40 AM)


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OfflineStupendous-Yappi
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: bigd17]
    #19396917 - 01/10/14 12:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I assume when you say cord you're talking about an AC/DC adapter (wall wart) that supplies 9V. The current that the wall wart supplies is important, especially when you're not supplying the recommended voltage. You need to know how much current the fan will draw and make sure the wall wart can supply it. I would try to find a 12v supply.


A potentiometer would only allow you to slow down the speed.


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: Stupendous-Yappi]
    #19396954 - 01/10/14 01:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Camtaro420 said:
:yeahokaywaitwhat:

Just when I thought this hobby was simple.




first off, :tongue:

second, mio that is exactly how my lc jars are except i used a 1/8th inch fluted brass fitting that i crimped on the inside and stuffed with polyfill sealed with red rtv of course. 

but not going to lie i have never seen a flat bottomed jar and i def dont have any on hand :confused:

Quote:

Stupendous-Yappi said:
I assume when you say cord you're talking about an AC/DC adapter (wall wart) that supplies 9V. The current that the wall wart supplies is important, especially when you're not supplying the recommended voltage. You need to know how much current the fan will draw and make sure the wall wart can supply it. I would try to find a 12v supply.


A potentiometer would only allow you to slow down the speed.




as far as this goes i figured that about the potentiometer but just had to ask lol and i guess i need to find a 12v supply then.  will the 3 volts really have that big of an impact on the speed?

and what sort of items would use such an high voltage of ac/dc adapter?  i have some old laptop cords laying around but they range from 15v-19v i would think that would burn out the motor...


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: Stupendous-Yappi]
    #19396955 - 01/10/14 01:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

a 9V battery works fine for me, and a small ½" thin nail + 90mm pc fan
eats even the most thick LC I had forgotten for a month

added a powerbutton to mine, no potentiometer yet, but added reverse current protection(diode, 1n4004) and resistor to protect battery from over current

but the fan will most likely have current limitation inside

for best results you want to supply 12V to the fan, for maximum speed
you can do that with 2  9V batteries, and a "voltage divider circuit" which is basically just 2 resistors in series, google that
with 2  9V batteries you can get any voltage you want between 1V and 18V
(assuming you got 2 resistors, or 2 variable resistors)

then the only problem is the power consumption, because if you want to supply 1W to the fan the resistors might not be able to handle that load
you might have to put a few in parallel like I did just to be sure, I forgot all those electronics basics

1  9V battery is the optimal lazy-mans solution, if you dont want to do electronics work
works fine without any electronics really, but I did put in a diode so there is no backflow of current when the fan stops

I wouldnt use less than 9V, seems to be the bare minimum to get it running right


Edited by lessismore (01/10/14 01:23 AM)


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OfflineStupendous-Yappi
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: bigd17]
    #19397001 - 01/10/14 01:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bigd17 said:

Quote:

Stupendous-Yappi said:
I assume when you say cord you're talking about an AC/DC adapter (wall wart) that supplies 9V. The current that the wall wart supplies is important, especially when you're not supplying the recommended voltage. You need to know how much current the fan will draw and make sure the wall wart can supply it. I would try to find a 12v supply.


A potentiometer would only allow you to slow down the speed.




as far as this goes i figured that about the potentiometer but just had to ask lol and i guess i need to find a 12v supply then.  will the 3 volts really have that big of an impact on the speed?

and what sort of items would use such an high voltage of ac/dc adapter?  i have some old laptop cords laying around but they range from 15v-19v i would think that would burn out the motor...




How important the voltage difference is really depends on how much current the wall wart can supply. What was the wall wart used for before? It should say how much current is can supply. Do you have the model number of the fan?

A few diodes in series with your 15v supply would knock down the voltage within range.

In a previous job I helped design server inclosures and found PC fans can be finicky and vary a lot between manufactures. So some 12v fans could handle a higher voltage easy but others would start smoking.


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: Stupendous-Yappi]
    #19397012 - 01/10/14 01:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

hmm, i understand that a diode would be something that would take up some of the power but what would be an example of something one might have around the house to be used to that purpose? or would i have to get something from the hardware store or radio shack?


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: bigd17]
    #19397016 - 01/10/14 01:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

it also says on the packaging that operational voltage is apparently 10.8-13.3 so i'm guessing it wouldnt be such a long jump down from 15 if i could just get something to suck a little power away


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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OfflineCMOS
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: bigd17]
    #19397072 - 01/10/14 02:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Could use 4 silicone diodes in series for the voltage drop.  Each one should drop about 0.7v so 4 of em should get you around 12V. 

Could find some at radioshack (any of the 1n400x series would work) or find some in some old electronics.  If you have one of those wall wort ac/dc adapters, there should be 4 of them inside there.  The fan will run much better at its proper operating voltage.


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OfflineStupendous-Yappi
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: bigd17]
    #19397073 - 01/10/14 02:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bigd17 said:
hmm, i understand that a diode would be something that would take up some of the power but what would be an example of something one might have around the house to be used to that purpose? or would i have to get something from the hardware store or radio shack?


You probably don't have any laying around if you need to ask. :tongue2:
I would just go to Radio Shack.

Quote:

it also says on the packaging that operational voltage is apparently 10.8-13.3 so I'm guessing it wouldnt be such a long jump down from 15 if i could just get something to suck a little power away



Diodes like 1N4001 have about a 1V drop, so three of them in series could work. Like mio say's you can also use resistors. You'll need to know Ohm's law and how many amps the fan draws though.


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: Stupendous-Yappi]
    #19397092 - 01/10/14 02:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

You probably don't have any laying around if you need to ask. :tongue2:
I would just go to Radio Shack.




hahaha i was hoping maybe y'all meant i could connect some things in series like lights or other fans or idk just anything to suck up energy... as you can see i'm no electrical engineer i just know how to twist wires together and hope nothing catches fire.


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: bigd17]
    #19397103 - 01/10/14 02:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

9V battery works fine, you dont need diodes or resistors, although you may burn the battery rather quickly that way

if you dont mind replacing every other month with a new $1  9V battery it should work
as long as you remember to turn it off it should last a few months (mine lasts 4-6 months of average use with $1 battery)

adding a PSU to a magnetic stirrer defeats its purpose a little
it should be easy to use and place where you need it preferably


btw to your last question
I dont think it is so simple to drop voltage, because the current will go through what you use to drop voltage
and as we all know P=U*I , so there will be a powerconsumption on the component i.e. 2V*0.5A = 1W
most components can only do 1/4W

so unless you add in parallel they will burn , or unless you use power resistors or such

or that is just how I remember it

using a 9V battery is easier :-)  , if you want to drop voltage you need to put components in parallel likely, depending on how much you want to drop voltage


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Offlinemonoculture
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: lessismore]
    #19397116 - 01/10/14 02:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It should not be so hard, just buy a stirring magnet coated with pfte (flea)for inside the jar.
for the rest: HERE


Edited by monoculture (01/10/14 02:41 AM)


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: lessismore]
    #19397123 - 01/10/14 02:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not quite sure what half of that just meant but i think i get that your saying the electricity will just rail straight through it and still be the same voltage hitting the fan?  and your right it should be a lot simpler lol.

That was the idea from the get-go, i mean i only spent $20 on parts.

But 9v batteries are the little rectangular looking ones right? they have the connectors on the same end next to each other as opposed to on either end?  like the ones that go in a fire alarm!


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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OfflineCMOS
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: lessismore]
    #19397182 - 01/10/14 03:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah 9v batteries are the square ones that go in fire alarms.

Just get a 12v ac/dc wall wort from a thrift shop ($1.00), no need to mess around with diodes if you don't have a soldering iron.

Could also do AA batteries, each battery is 1.5v so you could get a holder for 8 of them at radioshack. 

Quote:

so unless you add in parallel they will burn , or unless you use power resistors or such




No need to, just run 4 of them in series.  The extremely common 1n400x series are rated up to 50v/1A.  Those 12v fans probaly only draw 250mA. 

If you look up there datasheet, it shows that at 250mA the diode should be dropping 0.8v.  (voltage drop on silicone diodes isn't linear with current draw)


To OP, I would just buy the $1.00 12v ac/dc wallwort.  I bet if you look hard enough you could find one for free,


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: CMOS]
    #19397213 - 01/10/14 03:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

so i just tried a small brass nail and its working beautifully in a half pint jar, if i want to make larger batches i will have to get a larger adapter but i'm so happy right now i've been working on this since 10:30 when i got home, up until an hour ago and then i just said fuck it and it made a nice wirlpool thats not too aggressive only goes about 1/3 of the way down the jar  :nyan:


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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Offlinebigd17
Say Budget To Me Again...
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Registered: 07/31/08
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: bigd17]
    #19397215 - 01/10/14 03:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

oh and thnx for the advice on the thrift stores i'm totally doing that tomorrow to find a larger voltage wall wart i cant believe i hadn't thought of that.


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: CMOS]
    #19397217 - 01/10/14 03:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yeah series is a good idea, also 1n4004 is cheap on ebay, maybe $4 for 50 with postage
then you should be able to use 4 to drop 2.8V, they drop 0.7V each

15V-2.8V=12.2V , perfect for your fan , if you get 4  1n4004 diodes on ebay and put in series

they would consume 0.7V*0.25A  , slightly less than 1/4W  , assuming your fan uses max 250mA (sounds reasonable, but check the fan label)
so they shouldnt burn :-)

getting a 12V or 9V adapter sounds easier ofc, but not as fun

damn if only I could remember all this electronic stuff then I would use it everyday


Edited by lessismore (01/10/14 03:52 AM)


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Offlinetropicalfrenzy
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Re: built my own magnetic stirrer, need some advice. [Re: monoculture]
    #19397229 - 01/10/14 03:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

one of those old Scalectrix or train set inverters would be pretty handy about now.


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