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OfflineLearyfanS
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Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous
    #19395151 - 01/09/14 06:25 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

What do you make of this article and theory?  I personally think it's bullshit.  But even if it were true, you shouldn't kick people's doors in and put guns to their heads in front of their children and take them away from their families in order to keep the Mexican cartels busy with something less harmful.  Stupid.







Quote:

Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous

The growing movement to legalize marijuana is radically altering the way Mexican drug cartels do business, forcing them to seek other revenue streams through increased illegal activity.

Right now, only Washington State and Colorado have decriminalized pot. Taken together, they account for just a small portion of the American marijuana market. But that’s just the start of a trend that’s growing like a weed.

Peter Reuter, a professor at the University of Maryland’s School of Public Policy and Department of Criminology, said he expects the decriminalization movement to grow rapidly in the coming years.

“I’ve always been quite skeptical that anything would come of these movements” to decriminalize pot, he said. “I think now that in five years half the country will be living in states that have decriminalized marijuana.”

Wider decriminalization would push the price of pot down, taking away a key revenue stream for cartels like Los Zetas and La Familia. It’s pushing them to dive deeper into illegal markets for other drugs. It’s also forcing them to adopt tactics used by militant groups in Africa, upping the ante with the Mexican government and putting them at odds with powerful energy interests.

A 2012 study by the Mexican Institute of Competitiveness says legalization in Colorado will cost cartels $1.425 billion annually, while Washington State’s legalization would cost cartels $1.372 billion. The study also found that legalization in these two states would push the cartels’ annual revenues down 20 to 30 percent, and cut revenue to the Sinaloa cartel by 50 percent.

Related: Why Legalizing Marijuana Is a Smart Fiscal Move

In two separate reports — one in 2010 and one from last September — Rand Corp. dismissed these numbers as overstated. These reports found that the biggest domino to fall would be California, a state where one-seventh of all pot in the United States is consumed. 

Reuter said he expects California to decriminalize pot in the coming years. He said the only reason a 2010 referendum to legalize marijuana failed was because it was poorly worded.

“These two states account for 5 percent of U.S. pot consumption. It’s not a big deal. If California legalizes, that changes things,” he said.

Reuter added that the lack of pushback from conservative interest groups also makes wider decriminalization more likely. Just one group — Smart Approaches to Marijuana, headed by former Rep. Patrick Kennedy, who has struggled with substance abuse — is vocally opposed to decriminalization. Other conservative groups have been oddly quiet, Reuter said.

“One of the fascinating things is how little real criticism there’s been from the right,” he said. “Social conservatives have not made much of this.”

That could change since a new study from Northwestern University shows teenagers who smoke marijuana daily may suffer changes in brain structure that resemble schizophrenia.

Related: Study Finds Link Between Teen Pot Use and Schizophrenia

George W. Grayson, an expert on Mexican cartels at The College of William & Mary in Virginia, said, “Mexican syndicates are diversifying their sources of revenue beyond marijuana, cocaine and heroin. They are heavily involved in kidnapping — number one in the world — extortion, prostitution, migrant smuggling,” he said. “In addition, the cartels are ever-more active in stealing and exporting opioids such as Oxycontin and Roxicodone. Even cigarette smuggling is on the rise.”

Kidnapping has become so common that some have even been caught on tape. According to Mexico’s National Institute of Statistics and Geography, more than 105,000 people were kidnapped in 2012.

Grayson also said that the cartels are stealing from energy companies, a practice more common in West Africa than Latin America. For instance, in 2012, the Mexican Army estimated that 538,000 gallons of fuel were stolen in May in Veracruz alone.

“Los Zetas, in particular, are stealing lots of oil, gas, explosives and solvents from Pemex, the state oil company. Pemex uses the chemicals for hydraulic fracking; Los Zetas for cooking methamphetamines.”


(http://finance.yahoo.com/)

















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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: Learyfan] * 4
    #19395231 - 01/09/14 06:37 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

I don't doubt that the cartels are going to step up in other avenues to mitigate their losses from legalization, but the solution to the problem is the same as it has always been:

Legalize cocaine and prostitution too.


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Invisibleteknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: Learyfan]
    #19395243 - 01/09/14 06:39 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Argument From Adverse Consequences.


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InvisibleSell Your Soul
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: Learyfan]
    #19395264 - 01/09/14 06:42 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Right now, only Washington State and Colorado have decriminalized pot.



Well this isn't accurate.
Washington and Colorado have legalized weed for recreational use,
and it's decriminalized in other states including California.

Also, we don't care what the Mexicans do.
That should have no effect on our laws.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: Sell Your Soul]
    #19395269 - 01/09/14 06:43 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Fallacious reasoning as well.


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Offlinepcplease
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Registered: 09/02/11
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: teknix] * 1
    #19395283 - 01/09/14 06:46 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

If anything, I'd think the opposite- Cartels grow some dank weed, and now they have a legal market for it :shrug:


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OfflineAJR
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Registered: 11/27/13
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: teknix] * 1
    #19395285 - 01/09/14 06:46 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

The thing is, the cartels are already doing all those other things. Making pot legal takes a hell of a lot of money off them. It's really plain to see this is a good thing. Clearly as a person posting on a site like this I would day that :grin: you really have to be an idiot to think making pot legal and hitting the cartel harder than they have ever been hit is anything other than a great move.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: pcplease]
    #19395299 - 01/09/14 06:48 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

pcplease said:
If anything, I'd think the opposite- Cartels grow some dank weed, and now they have a legal market for it :shrug:




That's what I was thinking.

Take gambling, for instance. Well, who profited the most off that? The mafia. And it was a completely legal business on top of that.

It wasn't until the FBI raided the casinos that the mafia lost power, and Las Vegas became owned by legit business-owners. But the reason they were raided wasn't because they were doing illegal business, it was because they weren't paying their taxes.


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: Learyfan]
    #19395324 - 01/09/14 06:53 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

The best solution to Mexican crime is to remove all Mexicans.
:cookiemonster:


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OfflineMescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: something super extreme]
    #19395349 - 01/09/14 06:57 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

I have family higher up in DHS. Mexico is the last place I'd go right now. One thing I didn't see mentioned is the organ trade...


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FREE BURKE


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InvisibletheRAPeutic
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Registered: 07/22/13
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: Mescalean] * 3
    #19395423 - 01/09/14 07:10 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

I think the exact opposite would happen, and this article is just using fear mongering so pot will stay illegalized.


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OfflineShiVersblood
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: theRAPeutic] * 3
    #19395473 - 01/09/14 07:19 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Back when alcohol was illegal, America had a huge problem with the Mob killing people. Now the mobsters arent a real problem anymore and alcohol is legal in the usa.

Mexico has the problem today that the USA had back when Alcohol was illegal. Things would get alot better for mexico if Weed was legalized. In USA and mexico.

What would the excuse be to not legalize weed in mexico is it was completly legal in the usa? zero.


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InvisibleKT-BC
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Registered: 10/24/12
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Loc: the lake Flag
Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: ShiVersblood] * 2
    #19395591 - 01/09/14 07:43 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

this article is so obviously bullshit fear mongering :lol:
make people think " oh noes, if i sign this to get marijuana legalized the cartels are gonna be losing money and step up their game in other way, thus creating more violence"

although that may be true, there is no reason why the cartels can't sell the marijuana they grow to dispensaries, legally..

hell im sure some dispensaries already get there marijuana from cartel owned grow shows :shrug:

those motherfuckers know how to make money,legalizing marijuana most likely wont stop them from getting money,from marijuana.

one way or another they'll get involved


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 6,457
Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: pcplease]
    #19395604 - 01/09/14 07:46 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

pcplease said:
If anything, I'd think the opposite- Cartels grow some dank weed, and now they have a legal market for it :shrug:




what kind of anti-american scumbag would buy shit weed?


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Offlinepcplease
Salame

Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 6,089
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19395679 - 01/09/14 08:00 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

It's not just schwag anymore, it's a lot of incredible (and incredibly well-manicured) outdoor in state parks around CO and the SW, and indoor everywhere.

Some damn good kush right there :drooling:


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 6,457
Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: pcplease]
    #19395695 - 01/09/14 08:02 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

you're anti american and you support cartels, go die.


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Offlinepcplease
Salame

Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 6,089
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19395724 - 01/09/14 08:06 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Que?


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 6,457
Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: pcplease]
    #19395737 - 01/09/14 08:09 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

your reply lead me to believe you were defending mexican weed.


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Offlinepcplease
Salame

Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 6,089
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19395815 - 01/09/14 08:24 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

I just know how it is, I lived in the SW for a little while. My point was just saying/proving that they really do grow dank weed. I would never knowingly do business with cartel, that's just dangerous. And of course I don't condone the cartel's actions you hear about in the news.

Point of my first post being that I think they will be selling their good weed in legal states, giving them a reliable/consistent market.  I'd think that would/should lower crime. I hope it will, at least.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 6,457
Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: pcplease]
    #19395849 - 01/09/14 08:32 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

If you don't have the presence of mind to support local business you don't deserve to be smoking weed. Sorry it's frank, but it's the truth.


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Offlinepcplease
Salame

Registered: 09/02/11
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19395882 - 01/09/14 08:43 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Definitely an opinion, not truth, but I agree; I'd add supporting your local farmer's markets and breweries too.


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OfflineShiVersblood
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19395922 - 01/09/14 08:54 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

I have no idea where my weed comes from. I don't live in Colorado. It could come from anywhere.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: ShiVersblood]
    #19395948 - 01/09/14 09:00 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

ShiVersblood said:
I have no idea where my weed comes from. I don't live in Colorado. It could come from anywhere.




And to me, THAT is a serious problem!


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: Learyfan] * 1
    #19395962 - 01/09/14 09:05 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
What do you make of this article and theory?  I personally think it's bullshit.  But even if it were true, you shouldn't kick people's doors in and put guns to their heads in front of their children and take them away from their families in order to keep the Mexican cartels busy with something less harmful.  Stupid.







Quote:

Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous

The growing movement to legalize marijuana is radically altering the way Mexican drug cartels do business, forcing them to seek other revenue streams through increased illegal activity.

Right now, only Washington State and Colorado have decriminalized pot. Taken together, they account for just a small portion of the American marijuana market. But that’s just the start of a trend that’s growing like a weed.

Peter Reuter, a professor at the University of Maryland’s School of Public Policy and Department of Criminology, said he expects the decriminalization movement to grow rapidly in the coming years.

“I’ve always been quite skeptical that anything would come of these movements” to decriminalize pot, he said. “I think now that in five years half the country will be living in states that have decriminalized marijuana.”

Wider decriminalization would push the price of pot down, taking away a key revenue stream for cartels like Los Zetas and La Familia. It’s pushing them to dive deeper into illegal markets for other drugs. It’s also forcing them to adopt tactics used by militant groups in Africa, upping the ante with the Mexican government and putting them at odds with powerful energy interests.

A 2012 study by the Mexican Institute of Competitiveness says legalization in Colorado will cost cartels $1.425 billion annually, while Washington State’s legalization would cost cartels $1.372 billion. The study also found that legalization in these two states would push the cartels’ annual revenues down 20 to 30 percent, and cut revenue to the Sinaloa cartel by 50 percent.

Related: Why Legalizing Marijuana Is a Smart Fiscal Move

In two separate reports — one in 2010 and one from last September — Rand Corp. dismissed these numbers as overstated. These reports found that the biggest domino to fall would be California, a state where one-seventh of all pot in the United States is consumed. 

Reuter said he expects California to decriminalize pot in the coming years. He said the only reason a 2010 referendum to legalize marijuana failed was because it was poorly worded.

“These two states account for 5 percent of U.S. pot consumption. It’s not a big deal. If California legalizes, that changes things,” he said.

Reuter added that the lack of pushback from conservative interest groups also makes wider decriminalization more likely. Just one group — Smart Approaches to Marijuana, headed by former Rep. Patrick Kennedy, who has struggled with substance abuse — is vocally opposed to decriminalization. Other conservative groups have been oddly quiet, Reuter said.

“One of the fascinating things is how little real criticism there’s been from the right,” he said. “Social conservatives have not made much of this.”

That could change since a new study from Northwestern University shows teenagers who smoke marijuana daily may suffer changes in brain structure that resemble schizophrenia.

Related: Study Finds Link Between Teen Pot Use and Schizophrenia

George W. Grayson, an expert on Mexican cartels at The College of William & Mary in Virginia, said, “Mexican syndicates are diversifying their sources of revenue beyond marijuana, cocaine and heroin. They are heavily involved in kidnapping — number one in the world — extortion, prostitution, migrant smuggling,” he said. “In addition, the cartels are ever-more active in stealing and exporting opioids such as Oxycontin and Roxicodone. Even cigarette smuggling is on the rise.”

Kidnapping has become so common that some have even been caught on tape. According to Mexico’s National Institute of Statistics and Geography, more than 105,000 people were kidnapped in 2012.

Grayson also said that the cartels are stealing from energy companies, a practice more common in West Africa than Latin America. For instance, in 2012, the Mexican Army estimated that 538,000 gallons of fuel were stolen in May in Veracruz alone.

“Los Zetas, in particular, are stealing lots of oil, gas, explosives and solvents from Pemex, the state oil company. Pemex uses the chemicals for hydraulic fracking; Los Zetas for cooking methamphetamines.”


(http://finance.yahoo.com/)




















Yes the government should protect the drug cartel for economic reasons :lolwut: there is a good argument there on why the free underground illegal drug market that allows the government to make so many arrests and spend so much on the prison system, who own companies that are taxed by the government, is based on the same philosophy or not raising the minimum wage :stoned:

It hurts free business, which the government taxes. If the cartels stop operating marijuana markets, then the government no longer can make as many arrests, and the prison system business that charges the government to run the prisons, also gets taxed for the billions they charge. Bad move, hurting the free market hurts the governments ability to tax these trades, whether trades of big companies on Wall Street, or trades between prison terms and the government financing the jails to hold the prisoners :shrug:

we need to just step out of this, and not regulate things as much. Oh wait legalizing marijuana IS not regulating things as much :facepalm:


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
    #19395971 - 01/09/14 09:08 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
I don't doubt that the cartels are going to step up in other avenues to mitigate their losses from legalization, but the solution to the problem is the same as it has always been:

Legalize cocaine and prostitution too.




I think cocain would be better legal in a clinic as a prescription... for..... I don't know. I don't like it being illegal and able to fall into criminal hands, but I also don't want it available to anyone just to become a crack head.

I think that is fair, prescription based. And yes legalizing prostitution would stop that crime racket, and allow people to have safer sex as prostitutes would be tested etc.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
loner with a boner

Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 5,054
Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: imachavel]
    #19395992 - 01/09/14 09:13 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Them saying that recreational weed becoming legalized in cali would hit the cartels hard is straight up bullshit. People in cali don't smoke that brick mids from mexico... mids to them is outdoor headies.


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Offlinepcplease
Salame

Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 6,089
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #19396032 - 01/09/14 09:21 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

1. Scroll up^ If you call that indoor mids, I'd like to see your dank :lol:

2. Cartels good outdoor IMO is way stronger than cali/homegrown outdoor, the high elevation helps out a ton. Of course, non-cartel outdoor in AZ and NM is more potent too, but cartel grows dominate in those states.

3. Brick schwag still makes it's way everywhere. Saw some in OR a few years ago, of all places.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: Crystal G]
    #19396086 - 01/09/14 09:34 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Whay are people saying that the Mafia disappeared after prohibition.  They didn't, they just moved to white-collar crime, as well as working as anti-labor thugs for the government, which to me is much much worse.  So maybe there is something to it.

These anti-social people are distracted by the drug war.  The drug war is a product of corruption, not the other way around.  It will come out another way.

I still believe in an end to all prohibitions other than those on all major forms of violence and theft.


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: pcplease]
    #19396124 - 01/09/14 09:48 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

pcplease said:
3. Brick schwag still makes it's way everywhere. Saw some in OR a few years ago, of all places.




Brick weed in Oregon?  What the fuck.  That's like selling bath water to a whale. 

















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InvisibletheRAPeutic
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Re: Legalizing Pot Makes Mexican Cartels Even More Dangerous [Re: Learyfan]
    #19396144 - 01/09/14 09:55 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

If there's brick weed in California you can bet there's brick weed everywhere.

Also, I'm sure a huge portion of the dank people get in other states has been shipped from here.


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