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Offlinehidenseek1
Its got all the dinks.
Registered: 12/22/12
Posts: 5,423
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Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: Patlal]
    #19390076 - 01/08/14 07:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)



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Offlinekoods
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Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,412
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Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: psi]
    #19390095 - 01/08/14 07:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Yeah he doesn't seem like the smartest guy really.




You don't have to be smart, if you're the one.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinemorrowasted
Worldwide Stepper
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Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: morrowasted] * 1
    #19390209 - 01/08/14 07:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
i was gonna read the papers

until i got high

i was gonna understand science

but then i got high



now im an ignorant conservative
and i know why

why man??

becuz i got high
becuz i got high
becuz i got highigh
la dada-duh dadaduh


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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 1,855
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Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: andrewmurray86]
    #19390700 - 01/08/14 09:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm still undecided on this issue so I just read the whole thread and most of the links and I have to say, while I've yet to be convinced that AGW is a complete myth or that the temp is going to rise 7C by 2060, the links from zappa and luvdemshrooms are convincingly damning of the "97% consensus"

Only 77/3146 of the AGU surveys were actually climate scientists and the wording was whether humans have caused some global warming, which is way more ambiguous than it is credible, and then you have "errors" like this:

Quote:

Investigative journalists at Popular Technology looked into precisely which papers were classified within Cook’s asserted 97 percent. The investigative journalists found Cook and his colleagues strikingly classified papers by such prominent, vigorous skeptics as Willie Soon, Craig Idso, Nicola Scafetta, Nir Shaviv, Nils-Axel Morner and Alan Carlin as supporting the 97-percent consensus.




I think anyone using their thoughts rather than their emotions can see that the 97% claim is not accurate. Not saying that it would change majority or anything, but this would be like polling "whether gradual adaptation has caused some changes in plants and animals" and then declaring creationism nonexistent when the results come back 99%.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19392487 - 01/09/14 07:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I have taken plenty of science courses.  There is no large scale climate change and absolutely no evidence that humans are causing whatever is changing, which is a constant, and entirely within global historic norms. 



There are no other terrestrial planets:picard:  Boldly go and live long and prosper




Hahaha okay man there are no other terrestrial planets :lmao: You sure sound like you were paying attention in all those science courses. You just killed the little credibility you had http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_planet This is elementary school stuff. Yes our current climate might still fall within historical spectrum and I know this is one of the largest and most misused pieces of evidence against global climate change. The climate changes in cycles. Our current rate of climate change is not accounted for by where we should currently be in our cycle without including human contribution

Seriously, learn the carbon cycle. It's easy peasy. They teach it in every basic ecology, environmental science, biology, astronomy course and it's enough to silence any doubt of whether or not we are having impact on our climate


Edited by JacksonMetaller (01/09/14 07:12 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: i like cow poo]
    #19392731 - 01/09/14 09:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

i like cow poo said:
Quote:

Patlal said:


None of us know what we are talking about.



Dude, not true. This is elementary science. More CO2 in the atmosphere means more greenhouse gas effect, its not rocket science.
If you don't understand science this may clear things up.






see, this lovely little pic shows the ignorance of the global warming
believers, it shows they're unwilling to read the shit but instead
want to push something as fact with no knowledge and why... because a
'concensus' isnt science, this 97% shit is from a fucking survey in which
anyone disagreeing with the desired 'consensus' was rejected


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OnlinePatlal
You ask too many questions
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Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,812
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Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #19392756 - 01/09/14 09:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

i like cow poo said:
Quote:

Patlal said:


None of us know what we are talking about.



Dude, not true. This is elementary science. More CO2 in the atmosphere means more greenhouse gas effect, its not rocket science.
If you don't understand science this may clear things up.






see, this lovely little pic shows the ignorance of the global warming
believers, it shows they're unwilling to read the shit but instead
want to push something as fact with no knowledge and why... because a
'concensus' isnt science, this 97% shit is from a fucking survey in which
anyone disagreeing with the desired 'consensus' was rejected




And you that because they told you they deliberately manipulated the data? Or is it because saying that simply pushes your argument forward?

I think I can go back to my original statement.

None of us know what we're talking about. All we can do is quote studies from scientists we don't even know and then spinning the numbers any which way we want. None of us even tried gathering data anyway (unless looking at your thermometer in the morning is considered gathering data)


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
Wayfarer


Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 2,777
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: Patlal]
    #19393709 - 01/09/14 01:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

Wikipedia says there is a strong consensus.  That's good enough for me, and definitely better than bitching about whether a 97% figure should be 97% or 92% or whatever.


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
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Registered: 10/18/11
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Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19393717 - 01/09/14 01:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Here's a bone, luvdem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

I think you will find it disappointing, but maybe you will not.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19393742 - 01/09/14 01:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There's nothing disappointing about it, which is why I posted that link earlier in this very thread.

You aren't suggesting that list is complete I hope.

But thanks.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
Wayfarer


Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 2,777
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19393768 - 01/09/14 01:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not suggesting it is complete.  I would point out that there is ample incentive for anti-global-warming activists to add to that article as much as possible, but it's a pretty small list compared to how many scientists there are in the world.

Also this certainly puts a damper on your point:

Quote:

As of August 2012, fewer than 10 of the statements in the references for this list are part of the peer-reviewed scientific literature. The rest are statements from other sources such as interviews, opinion pieces, online essays and presentations. Academic papers almost never reject the view that human impacts have contributed to climate change. In 2004, a review of published abstracts from 928 peer-reviewed papers addressing "global climate change" found that none of them disputed the IPCC's conclusion that "Earth's climate is being affected by human activities" and that "most of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations"[8] A 2013 survey of 3984 abstracts from peer-reviewed papers published between 1991 and 2011 that expressed an opinion on anthropogenic global warming found that 97.1% agreed that climate change is caused by human activity.[9]




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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19393814 - 01/09/14 01:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

As my point was there are scientists on both sides of the issue, it doesn't dampen it at all.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinesonamdrukpa
Wayfarer


Registered: 10/18/11
Posts: 2,777
Last seen: 3 months, 2 days
Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19393826 - 01/09/14 01:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That's like pointing out that it's not as cold right by the river during a blizzard.  You're not wrong...


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19393835 - 01/09/14 02:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I try not to be.

Alas... sometimes I fail.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinekoods
Ribbit
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Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,412
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Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: sonamdrukpa]
    #19393836 - 01/09/14 02:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

sonamdrukpa said:
Here's a bone, luvdem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

I think you will find it disappointing, but maybe you will not.




Quote:

Fred Singer, professor emeritus of environmental sciences at the University of Virginia[38][39][40]



I changed that guy's tire once. He's friends with my neighbor and he had a flat and asked for help since they are old and crusty.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
Stranger

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: Patlal]
    #19394252 - 01/09/14 03:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

i like cow poo said:
Quote:

Patlal said:


None of us know what we are talking about.



Dude, not true. This is elementary science. More CO2 in the atmosphere means more greenhouse gas effect, its not rocket science.
If you don't understand science this may clear things up.






see, this lovely little pic shows the ignorance of the global warming
believers, it shows they're unwilling to read the shit but instead
want to push something as fact with no knowledge and why... because a
'concensus' isnt science, this 97% shit is from a fucking survey in which
anyone disagreeing with the desired 'consensus' was rejected




And you that because they told you they deliberately manipulated the data? Or is it because saying that simply pushes your argument forward?

I think I can go back to my original statement.

None of us know what we're talking about. All we can do is quote studies from scientists we don't even know and then spinning the numbers any which way we want. None of us even tried gathering data anyway (unless looking at your thermometer in the morning is considered gathering data)




Yes but if you are scientifically literate the broad mechanisms for climate change are extremely simple and logical to the point where you pretty much know the general outcome of burning fossil fuels without any necessary further research. What's hard is predicting the exact progression of the damage because we have a very complex biosphere unlike the other planets we can observe. Ie. Things like plants can absorb some carbon dioxide which they obviously can't do on venus (then again we're cutting down a lot of plants, so that's an issue too).

But for all the halfwits acting like this is some kind of conspiracy to end capitalism... I'll spell out the very basic concepts of the carbon cycle.

1. Greenhouse gases like carbon dioxide, water, and methane absorb infrared radiation that is reflected off the surface of the earth by the suns rays as they head back out into space. They do emit this energy in a random direction where it is caught by another greenhouse gas particle making for a very very very slow escape back into space. The ability to trap this radiation explains why earth is warm, and mars is freezing, and venus is a living hell.

2. Carbon dioxide dissolves into the oceans to form carbonic acid, which reacts with minerals to form calcium carbonate.

3. Calcium carbonate is what composes limestone as well as the exoskeletons, shells, skeletons of marine life

4. Marine life dies and falls to bottom of ocean.

5. Because of tectonic plates, carbon based life forms as well as carbonate rocks and carbon filled ocean water fall into subduction zones.

6. All this carbon based matter is reacted at high temperatures under the surface of the earth to reform carbon dioxide and much of it is outgassed by things like volcanoes.

So the implications of that...

1. In order for carbon to get out of the atmosphere it needs to be dissolved in water. (Plants help, but we're killing them off too, and regardless the ocean is the biggest storage place for CO2)

2. Water evaporates at higher temperatures and also dissolves CO2 better at low temperatures

3. More carbon in the atmosphere = higher temperatures = less water in ocean/precipitation as well as less carbon dioxide dissolving into the water that is there.

4. So less carbon dioxide filled oceans = greater carbon dioxide filled atmosphere

5. Greater carbon dioxide filled atmosphere = higher global temperature

6. Higher global temperature = Less CO2 dissolving into the oceans

7. Less CO2 dissolving into the oceans = more CO2 in atmosphere

8. More CO2 in atmosphere = increase in global temperatures

It's a positive feedback loop and rather well understood. Whether the current climate is enough to impact us at this moment, even if we stopped today it would continue on this path for decades afterwards. In every part of this equation, adding carbon furthers the process. So yes, life has formed an equilibrium around the natural distribution of carbon into the atmosphere... But we are talking about adding carbon emissions to the atmosphere in ever city of every part of the world every minute of every day. So whether you want to believe the data collected or not, hopefully you won't be as simple minded as to deny the well-understood mechanisms of climate that highly suggest we don't want to disturb the balance of the carbon cycle... for our own sake.

Now I see all these terrible arguments about how CO2 has been higher in the past, and temperatures have been higher, and worse storms have existed and whatever... That's not the issue. The issue is the RATE of change. When you talk about past climate experiences you are also acknowledging the adaptation of life and the various ecological systems over extremely long periods of time. So yes, life survived the KT extinction, the permian extinction, the ice ages, etc. Whoopdedoo. No one is saying that AGW is going to end space time or even earth/life for that matter. But it sure as hell can end the existence of human beings and a broad variety of life that we depend on.

People seem to have an extremely shallow view of how delicate ecological systems really are. Just because things historically existed one way, doesn't mean they are currently adapted to it.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19394286 - 01/09/14 03:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The planet is not a delicate ecological system.  It is rather robust and self adjusts through homeostasis

The concentration of CO2 went from 3 ten thousands of the atmosphere to 4 ten thousandths of the atmosphere and assorted assholes are trying to tell me that that is a calamity to such an extent that we must cease burning things for energy?  Get.  The.  Fuck.  Out.  Of.  Here.

None of the predictions have panned out.  They are frauds, charlatans and mountebanks.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
Stranger

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19394498 - 01/09/14 04:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The planet is not a delicate ecological system.  It is rather robust and self adjusts through homeostasis

The concentration of CO2 went from 3 ten thousands of the atmosphere to 4 ten thousandths of the atmosphere and assorted assholes are trying to tell me that that is a calamity to such an extent that we must cease burning things for energy?  Get.  The.  Fuck.  Out.  Of.  Here.

None of the predictions have panned out.  They are frauds, charlatans and mountebanks.




Regaining a level of homeostasis that can support human beings is an incredibly lengthy process... Like i said, it's the RATE we're doing this which is damaging to US. Of course the earth is going to rebalance at somepoint, the question is... are we going to be a part of it, and if we are are we going to be thriving. When i said it's delicate, i meant it's easy influenced, not destroyed. Most of us don't care about the state of the biosphere if humans are not around to be a part of it. It's us we're concerned about, and we have invested heavily into an extremely diverse pot of resources that are all at risk from climate change.

Now i'm going to admit I don't know a whole lot about the implications of the 400ppm vs 350ppm thing... But i have taken enough biology and chemistry courses to have an idea of how drastic those small scale changes can be. Not speaking for this particular one... But being that you didn't even believe in terrestrial planets, I would really hope you reconsider your ability to assess chemical processes like that.

I can think of one particular instance where it would be an issue... Our body has a really narrow window for acceptable pH levels. An increase in CO2 concentration = increase in carbonic acid = high ocean acidity = detrimental to marine life = detrimental to all marine based economy. That's just an issue i see off the top of my head though and a few ppm could very well do it


Edited by JacksonMetaller (01/09/14 04:37 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19394530 - 01/09/14 04:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think we have a different definition of terrestrial.  If you had simply said "rocky" vs gaseous I would have had no beef.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Registered: 03/13/11
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Re: I don't know what happened to that global warming promise, but somebody didn't deliver... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19394639 - 01/09/14 05:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I think we have a different definition of terrestrial.  If you had simply said "rocky" vs gaseous I would have had no beef.




Two of those definitions involve nothing related to life-inhabited planets. This isn't my definition, this is what they are actually called. Terrestrial planets as opposed to the Jovian planets. I learned this in like 5th grade. I don't expect everyone to remember that shit, but if you're going to be so goddamn confident as to throw a facepalm in with it while telling they don't exist when a quick google search will show you that we have 4 terrestrial planets in our solar system, then i don't trust your ability as a rational thinker or one who is educated enough in science to debate something like global warming. You just followed the path of most pubbers who are more interested in graemlins and blowing up their ego than actual intellectual discussion to the point where you didn't even have time to fact check some basic definitions before trying to throw it back in my face. If it was a polite and honest mistake, then whatever. But your stubbornness and confidence clearly clouds your reason.

Now i'm not perfect myself, but i spent some time making sure what i said was at least decently accurate, even the stuff i was already confident in. If you're going to make a debate at least be a little bit thorough because otherwise i can't trust your ability to know shit about CO2 concetrations and the difference between 350ppm and 400ppm. I mean, what the hell do you actually know about microconcentrations of carbon dioxide and their effect on the atmosphere? Are you a marine biologist? Or an analytical chemist? Or did the number just sound small so you ran with it?


Edited by JacksonMetaller (01/09/14 05:06 PM)


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