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InvisibleApollyphelion Happy Birthday!
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 2
    #19393118 - 01/09/14 10:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
lack of clear demands wasn't the failings of occupy--it was an unwillingness on the part of most to take a militant approach--pacifism only got them so far, and then when the camps got raids people chose to go home--have a leader wouldn't have changed this, unless she managed to get everyone riled up and willing to fight--which i don't think most of the folks participating in occupy were really willing to do



Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
The minute the Leader disappears then you have Anarchy
the stupidest form of humanity!


Why does living a life without a leader scare you so?

"I heartily accept the motto, "That government is best which governs least"; and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which also I believe — "That government is best which governs not at all"; and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have."




Id rather have a government that creates a general sense of homogenous well being,
as opposed to tons of gangs, little fiefdoms, and slavers walking around like it is the wild west, or some areas in Africa (which is DAMN close to Anarchy, if not full blown)
A government is also important because it allows me to pay taxes to a military so I do not personally have to defend myself---leaving me to create art, travel, write, etc.

I'm not trying to argue that govment is perfect, or how little or how much it should be involved in our lives,
but I think no government at all will quickly degrade into everything terrible about humanity.

And with that said, because I think America is overall a pretty good country, anyone trying to violently overthrow it, instead of peaceful demonstration, voting, and public pressure,
should be mowed down with guns.

I live by the motto ''Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others''


--------------------

"I'm looking at you looking at it"

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Offlinemudbutt
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #19393133 - 01/09/14 11:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

We Need a Million Man Armed March......In Washington


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Offlinerobbyberto
Water Boy
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: Apollyphelion] * 1
    #19393137 - 01/09/14 11:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Apollyphelion is right, hippies. He is right and you are wrong and that is the way of things.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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InvisibleNWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: Synthe]
    #19393179 - 01/09/14 11:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Synthe said:
Quote:

NWlight said:
this is the NSA

you are all officially on our watch list

:cop:







damn right :whacker:


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #19393180 - 01/09/14 11:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Id rather have a government that creates a general sense of homogenous well being,
as opposed to tons of gangs, little fiefdoms, and slavers walking around like it is the wild west, or some areas in Africa (which is DAMN close to Anarchy, if not full blown)



Lack of official government isn't what makes an anarchy--lack of hierarchy, and the existence of individual autonomy makes an anarchy--you describe something closer to autocracy or anocracy--the idea of anarchy implying chaos and disorder is a product of old government propaghanda



Quote:

I live by the motto ''Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others''



and I by the motto "The lesser of two evils is still an evil."


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Offlinemudbutt
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: robbyberto]
    #19393184 - 01/09/14 11:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

LOL.....I love your avatar


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InvisibleLittleDipster
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Posts: 4,141
Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: mudbutt]
    #19393202 - 01/09/14 11:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

We're going to need help....from up there

:ufo:

:ancientaliens:


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InvisibleApollyphelion Happy Birthday!
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #19393244 - 01/09/14 11:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Id rather have a government that creates a general sense of homogenous well being,
as opposed to tons of gangs, little fiefdoms, and slavers walking around like it is the wild west, or some areas in Africa (which is DAMN close to Anarchy, if not full blown)



Lack of official government isn't what makes an anarchy--lack of hierarchy, and the existence of individual autonomy makes an anarchy--you describe something closer to autocracy or anocracy--the idea of anarchy implying chaos and disorder is a product of old government propaghanda



Quote:

I live by the motto ''Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others''



and I by the motto "The lesser of two evils is still an evil."




No one has ever convinced me how order would be maintained without government, and with out a threat of punishment. If there is a threat of punishment, I would like to have a say or vote on how it is dealt out and by whom. I would WANT to elect a leader. Like I said before, I have no problem with democratically electing people under a system that gives us a chance to hold them accountable.

No hierarchy is another word for No one is on the King of the Hill. There is ALWAYS a King of the Hill, no matter how large or small the hill. Sometimes it is taken by force, or taken by other means. No central government or homogenous standards is the biggest invitation for slavery, civil war, and other forms of human wicked ness. Anarchy offers no reasonable way to maintain peace, other than a gentlemens agreement with humanity.

I'm fine with living with a lesser evil. No evil is not only unrealistic imo, but terribly terribly boring.


--------------------

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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Registered: 11/11/09
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #19393384 - 01/09/14 11:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

2 weeks of food insecurity ought to do it.

Obviously were past getting angry about fascism, maybe once we start starving to death someone will stop and go "wait. ok this sucks."


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OfflinePsychedelicScience
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Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 523
Loc: Astral Realm.
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #19393396 - 01/09/14 11:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Not if we creat a sustainable and peaceful society like perma culture or something similar it can be done I mean if people believe humans created the pyramids we do anything together.

You act like you paying your tax dollar does anything at all to protect your from so called terrorists that don't even exist I would understand your argument if we actually have caught terrorists and extremists by we have not we are the TERRORISTS straight up were the ones raiding other countires and killing woamn and children with drone strikes and trying to spy and govern the entire world while also making Africa and other countries this way because America is selfish and doesn't want to spend all our bullshit money we have to help anyone but themselves its total US AND THEM.

So I think if we could run some sort of sustainable resource type of economy instead of leaching other countries for things we could do it and be independent on our owns without the need to pay taxes because you contribute by farming and other means? Just a possibility...


Edited by PsychedelicScience (01/09/14 11:57 AM)


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OfflineNotTheDevil
Transhuman


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 5,436
Loc: US Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #19393412 - 01/09/14 12:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Id rather have a government that creates a general sense of homogenous well being,
as opposed to tons of gangs, little fiefdoms, and slavers walking around like it is the wild west, or some areas in Africa (which is DAMN close to Anarchy, if not full blown)



Lack of official government isn't what makes an anarchy--lack of hierarchy, and the existence of individual autonomy makes an anarchy--you describe something closer to autocracy or anocracy--the idea of anarchy implying chaos and disorder is a product of old government propaghanda



Quote:

I live by the motto ''Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others''



and I by the motto "The lesser of two evils is still an evil."




No one has ever convinced me how order would be maintained without government, and with out a threat of punishment. If there is a threat of punishment, I would like to have a say or vote on how it is dealt out and by whom. I would WANT to elect a leader. Like I said before, I have no problem with democratically electing people under a system that gives us a chance to hold them accountable.

No hierarchy is another word for No one is on the King of the Hill. There is ALWAYS a King of the Hill, no matter how large or small the hill. Sometimes it is taken by force, or taken by other means. No central government or homogenous standards is the biggest invitation for slavery, civil war, and other forms of human wicked ness. Anarchy offers no reasonable way to maintain peace, other than a gentlemens agreement with humanity.

I'm fine with living with a lesser evil. No evil is not only unrealistic imo, but terribly terribly boring.



The best option is a minimal archy which actually just protects and helps its people.


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OfflinePsychedelicScience
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Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 523
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #19393416 - 01/09/14 12:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:
Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Id rather have a government that creates a general sense of homogenous well being,
as opposed to tons of gangs, little fiefdoms, and slavers walking around like it is the wild west, or some areas in Africa (which is DAMN close to Anarchy, if not full blown)



Lack of official government isn't what makes an anarchy--lack of hierarchy, and the existence of individual autonomy makes an anarchy--you describe something closer to autocracy or anocracy--the idea of anarchy implying chaos and disorder is a product of old government propaghanda



Quote:

I live by the motto ''Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others''



and I by the motto "The lesser of two evils is still an evil."




No one has ever convinced me how order would be maintained without government, and with out a threat of punishment. If there is a threat of punishment, I would like to have a say or vote on how it is dealt out and by whom. I would WANT to elect a leader. Like I said before, I have no problem with democratically electing people under a system that gives us a chance to hold them accountable.

No hierarchy is another word for No one is on the King of the Hill. There is ALWAYS a King of the Hill, no matter how large or small the hill. Sometimes it is taken by force, or taken by other means. No central government or homogenous standards is the biggest invitation for slavery, civil war, and other forms of human wicked ness. Anarchy offers no reasonable way to maintain peace, other than a gentlemens agreement with humanity.

I'm fine with living with a lesser evil. No evil is not only unrealistic imo, but terribly terribly boring.



The best option is a minimal archy which actually just protects and helps its people.




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InvisibleMagicman69
All About the Benjamins
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Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 6,876
Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: PsychedelicScience]
    #19393456 - 01/09/14 12:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I bet if we overthrew the government, we would get invaded by another country during the chaos and then would be under another, probably more extreme regime. That rhymes, extreme regime :lol:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: ganjasmuggler]
    #19393465 - 01/09/14 12:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Legend said:
What would it take? Obviously a few protests won't get the job done.






The people would have to want it to happen.  Currently that is not the case, a lot would need to change to get the people pissed off enough to consider starting the government over again.

Quote:

Legend said:
yeah, well whats going to piss them off?





I think that locking up millions of people in FEMA camps would do it.  Yet another reason that FEMA camps do not exist.

Quote:

ganjasmuggler said:
The U.S. Government will never be overthrown. They keep the majority of the population in fear through media and other sources.





The US citizens are not in fear, it's that they are very comfortable.  They have what they need to survive and be happy, and the US government is much less evil/corrupt than many other governments out there.


If we did overthrow the government, what would we replace it with?  Probably something extremely similar to what we have now...So what's the point?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19393484 - 01/09/14 12:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

Legend said:
What would it take? Obviously a few protests won't get the job done.






The people would have to want it to happen.  Currently that is not the case, a lot would need to change to get the people pissed off enough to consider starting the government over again.

Quote:

Legend said:
yeah, well whats going to piss them off?





I think that locking up millions of people in FEMA camps would do it.  Yet another reason that FEMA camps do not exist.

Quote:

ganjasmuggler said:
The U.S. Government will never be overthrown. They keep the majority of the population in fear through media and other sources.





The US citizens are not in fear, it's that they are very comfortable.  They have what they need to survive and be happy, and the US government is much less evil/corrupt than many other governments out there.


If we did overthrow the government, what would we replace it with?  Probably something extremely similar to what we have now...So what's the point?




I'm shocked that a Rockefeller would argue against revolution. :rolleyes:

Joking... Do people get on you about your last name? Seems like one of those names that Alex Jones throws around a lot.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #19393492 - 01/09/14 12:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't see anarchies existing on the level of countries, or planetwide--it would be possible, if all of humanity decided to cooperate together--but that is too utopian for me to hold my breathe for right now--thus the quote "when men are prepared for it"

instead, my vision for a practicable anarchy is this day and age see small egalitarian communities--small issues are solved by consensus of parties involved, consensus/vote (depending on how they want to run things) of entire community for greater issues--kinda like in the way a family solves it's own problems internally, which is why it relies on the community being of a size small enough that each member is able to personally relate, at least to some extent, with every other member

you wouldn't need a leader because you would have a say in any issue that would directly effect you, and there would be not bureaucratic system to wade through to get your voice heard--perhaps there would be daily/weekly meetings, or a way to summon people for a meeting by the tolling of a bell, etc.--if a person was required to take the roll of moderator, it could easily be made to be a temporary role given to all community members of age, on a random or rotational basis

punishment could exist within an anarchy--though, i would imagine that most folks who would self-identify as anarchist today, would also be against prison and the modern day justice system--so punishment won't arrive in the form we commonly see--punishment could range from reparations for your crime, ostracization from the community, up to executions (though probably shouldn't pull those off if living under the umbrella of a country with it's own justice system)--and once again, the decision would fall to affected parties for minor issues (fights, theft, harassment), and to the entire community for serious issues (murder, rape, torture)

an why would it be impossible for an anarchistic community to arm and train itself in self-defence? why would they all need be pacifist to the extreme, and just hope that nothing ever fucks with their way of life--anarchists seek to avoid forcing other humans to act other than their own autonomy would dictate--which make the idea of an active military contradictory--but not the idea of self-defense

and i dunno man, i've lived in non-hierarchical communities before--they've generally been small--5 up to 25 or 30--but they've worked and didn't reveal any reason why they would stop being successful until the numbers got into the thousands--i'll be the first to admit i don't have a perfect proposal of how to make a model anarchy--if i did, i would have published that shit long ago--but i've tested my own theories and ideas in what ways i've good, and only held on to the ones that stood through them--and the only way i'll get any more answers is by continuing to live my own life as close to my 'ideal anarchy' as possible and seeing if it works--it's just when i see someone say anarchy is 'the stupidest form of humanity' i really have to step in--because it's the double whammy of over a hundred years of government anti-anarchist propaganda (before the commies and jihadis, before the unions and the environmentalists) which has been quite successful in turning the public minds concept of anarchy into the idea of a free-for-all where the murderers, liars, and thieves will rise to the top (kinda sounds like our current day government no?)--anarchy, at it's core, merely is an egalitarian society where all members are able to express autonomy--which really isn't that stupid sounding to me


Quote:

I'm fine with living with a lesser evil. No evil is not only unrealistic imo, but terribly terribly boring.



see, part of the reason i consider government an evil is because it seeks to make this world we live in a boring, controlled, sterile environment--and i ain't having none of that




i know it's a lot to ask someone to view a 10 minute video, but if you feel like dedicating the time it does a pretty good job at explaining why--even though i don't exactly know what an anarchy would entail, or how to pull it off, i still see it as a better alternative to any form of government--plus, it's got an alien:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: koods] * 1
    #19393518 - 01/09/14 12:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Joking... Do people get on you about your last name? Seems like one of those names that Alex Jones throws around a lot.





Rarely.  They did it roughly ten times more when I had my Facebook employer set to Monsanto.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: ganjasmuggler]
    #19394417 - 01/09/14 04:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ganjasmuggler said:
The U.S. Government will never be overthrown. They keep the majority of the population in fear through media and other sources.




In America the government does not control the media.  The media controls the government


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19394439 - 01/09/14 04:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

when you don't control your own government, people want to kill you


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InvisibleSynthe
Gatorade me, bitch!
Male


Registered: 11/10/12
Posts: 7,961
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Re: How to overthrow the American govt. [Re: koods]
    #19394458 - 01/09/14 04:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I'm shocked that a Rockefeller would argue against revolution. :rolleyes:

Joking... Do people get on you about your last name? Seems like one of those names that Alex Jones throws around a lot.




Quote:

For all my free market, health care-robbing
Stock-stealing, retirement fund fuckin'-with niggas
Fuck you little credit card-scamming, jewelry-stealing
Crack-selling, liquor store-robbing motherfuckers
Shout out to the homies Carnegie, OG Willy Randolph Hearst
Farouk, Rockefeller - the real Rockefeller
My main bitch Leona, pour out a little Louis the 13th
Scott Rothstein, Jack Abramoff, hold ya head
My Rothschild niggas...
LET'S GET THIS MONEY!





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