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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Exoplanets: Alien Earths
    #19390116 - 01/08/14 07:27 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

I noticed a special on PBS about the Kepler telescope discovering Earth-sized "exoplanets" in a habitable zone around certain stars.  I didn't watch for long, but it inspired in me an unpleasant emotion.

Along the lines of:  These people are basically saying, let's go ahead and fuck up our planet, because we can just hop twelve light-years away and live on the Earth-like planet there.  No sweat.

Is it not offensive, disgusting and insane that there is all this discussion about alien Earths?  Are these people seriously contemplating moving humanity away after this planet is finally made thoroughly into a sewer?

It bothers me.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlineandrewmurray86
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19390139 - 01/08/14 07:33 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Was that the push they were saying? That other planets are available for our colonisation or that there may be life on other planets?

2 different things (I hope). I would hate to think we become the "invading aliens".


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: andrewmurray86]
    #19390298 - 01/08/14 07:59 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

No, they were not saying that explicitly.  As a science episode, they were saying that a few of these planets can sustain life.

Which leads to two conclusions in people's minds:  A. It is interesting that these planets can sustain life and B. In practical terms, perhaps this means we can be bailed out.

The program presented it scientifically and journalistically.  But for years I have seen things on the internet and in newspapers and on TV about these exoplanets -- there are millions of people out there by now who really see it in the way I've described. 

Colonization, while not explicitly endorsed in the episode I saw, is clearly not at all far from a lot of people's minds.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #19390395 - 01/08/14 08:17 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

if they wait till after they fuck up the planet, then there wont be any need to go because by then, well
nobody will be left to go anywhere


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19391159 - 01/08/14 11:14 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Well I mean...what's the problem?  Life will live on if we "fuck up the planet". 
We are changing the ecosystem, but it is only a negative change for certain types of life.  It actually invites radical evolution of new forms. 

I see no problem with our species hopping from rock to rock.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19391545 - 01/09/14 12:58 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I noticed a special on PBS about the Kepler telescope discovering Earth-sized "exoplanets" in a habitable zone around certain stars.  I didn't watch for long, but it inspired in me an unpleasant emotion.

Along the lines of:  These people are basically saying, let's go ahead and fuck up our planet, because we can just hop twelve light-years away and live on the Earth-like planet there.  No sweat.

Is it not offensive, disgusting and insane that there is all this discussion about alien Earths?  Are these people seriously contemplating moving humanity away after this planet is finally made thoroughly into a sewer?

It bothers me.




I'm sooooo fucking sad it bothers you. :hissyfit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19391586 - 01/09/14 01:16 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Assuming civilization survives into the thousands of years I think space travel will happen. First stage will be profit dependent based on resource acquisition, oriented with the eventual goal of solar space stations for gravity free construction and deployment. 

Stage two would be reaching gravity free production and will be oriented towards the accumulation of raw materials as opposed to a profit dependency. Along with advances in technology this would lead to stage three, independence from Earth.

Stage three eventually involves colony armadas traveling to other stellar systems, journeys of 100s of years perhaps in ships the size of small citys. By this point a livable planet wouldn't be necessary, just a reasonably safe star surrounded by resources. From those points the process will repeat itself and progress exponentially.

:satansmoking:


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: Rahz]
    #19391675 - 01/09/14 01:44 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

I'm so excited I can hardly wait.  :kimjongil:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19392776 - 01/09/14 09:20 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

Sleepwalker said:
Well I mean...what's the problem?  Life will live on if we "fuck up the planet". 
We are changing the ecosystem, but it is only a negative change for certain types of life.  It actually invites radical evolution of new forms. 

I see no problem with our species hopping from rock to rock.




We are many decades from even being close to having the technology and the wealth to actually leave the solar system.  I just think it's not very constructive to seriously consider that what we do here doesn't matter because we can simply junk Earth and move on.  I think it's quite unintelligent to honestly believe things are that simple.

And I don't mean a negative change for "certain types of life."  I mean us.

I'm not trying to suggest any kind of ecological doomsday scenario.  I think we are perfectly capable of getting things in order here.  It just seems ridiculous that many people have no appreciation for our planet and think we can pillage and plunder without feeling too bad about it because we can always just move our civilization to an exoplanet.  Seems nuts to me.

And Icelander, thank you, I appreciate your sympathy.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19393738 - 01/09/14 01:34 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

Sleepwalker said:
Well I mean...what's the problem?  Life will live on if we "fuck up the planet". 
We are changing the ecosystem, but it is only a negative change for certain types of life.  It actually invites radical evolution of new forms. 

I see no problem with our species hopping from rock to rock.




We are many decades from even being close to having the technology and the wealth to actually leave the solar system.  I just think it's not very constructive to seriously consider that what we do here doesn't matter because we can simply junk Earth and move on.




Well, sure.  I don't think things are beyond the point of no return yet.

I was just arguing against what I thought was your assertion that we could completely fuck up the planet for all life.


I think the search for earth-like planets is a purely scientific venture right now. 
I hardly think the scientists conducting these searches are doing so because they don't give a shit about the nature in their backyard and want to bail.


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Offlinemaddad
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19393884 - 01/09/14 02:13 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Perhaps they were trying to suggest that other planets may have life, not that we are someday going to go there. The technology that we have would never get us to one of those planets and allow us to colonate it anyways. We will definitely run out of resources before then and be stuck here to die with the planet that gave us life...


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I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19393913 - 01/09/14 02:20 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

I don't think things are beyond the point of no return yet.

What makes you think that?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: maddad]
    #19393929 - 01/09/14 02:25 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Sleepwalker said:
I think the search for earth-like planets is a purely scientific venture right now. 
I hardly think the scientists conducting these searches are doing so because they don't give a shit about the nature in their backyard and want to bail.




I don't blame the scientists.  I'm just cynical about the hullabaloo about it.  I can't assume it's all purely scientific.  Maybe I overreacted a little.

Quote:

maddad said:
The technology that we have would never get us to one of those planets and allow us to colonate it anyways. We will definitely run out of resources before then and be stuck here to die with the planet that gave us life...




That's more or less my thinking as well.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlineandrewmurray86
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19394043 - 01/09/14 02:51 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

I'm pretty sure we can save this planet. The trouble is the longer we leave it the harder it will get to actually do it. It's possible, I don't think it's a reality though


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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: andrewmurray86]
    #19395315 - 01/09/14 06:51 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Haha...it's funny, I've been casually following research into the existence of habitable planets outside our solar system for years now, but never really though of it as a way to replace Earth because the planets are so far away.  I always thought of it as an inquiry into the reality of life beyond Earth.

12 light-years doesn't sound like much if you think we're going to have speed-of-light travel soon...but we won't.  We may never have travel anywhere near that speed.  It's extremely unlikely that we'll ever have anything remotely approximating speed-of-light travel even if it's possible unless we're able to stabilize a sustainable civilization on Earth and continue funding physics and space programs for another few hundred years.  NASA has some good articles on the topic of various proposed systems of interstellar travel - including the idea of a "warp drive" etc. - that have me convinced that we won't be traveling 12 light-years any time soon.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: andrewmurray86]
    #19395383 - 01/09/14 07:02 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

andrewmurray86 said:
I'm pretty sure we can save this planet. The trouble is the longer we leave it the harder it will get to actually do it. It's possible, I don't think it's a reality though




The planet is in no danger from us.  Our particular niche and that of some other fauna and flora maybe but that's it.  I hardly think we are going to do much to save even that.  I've considered it a done deal since the late 70s.  :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: Icelander]
    #19395420 - 01/09/14 07:09 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
The planet is in no danger from us.  Our particular niche and that of some other fauna and flora maybe but that's it. 




Exactly. 

As for thinking it's not too late to stop even that from happening, I am just of the opinion that humanity is full of surprises,
especially when we collectively realize that the pressure is on, now or never, into the pit we go type of thing.

It's a matter of which tipping point we reach first, the environment spiraling out of control, or humanity's fear factor.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #19395593 - 01/09/14 07:44 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Well lets look at how it went with the Roman Empire.  They are most like us now.  If you take a look at that and really every other major and likely minor civilization that has emerged there has really been no surprises.  Still humanity in some form will likely survive a long time but it's never been pretty. I'll be glad to be gone.  Sad that my species turned out the way it has but glad I don't have to live with it much longer.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinerobbyberto
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19395652 - 01/09/14 07:53 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
We are many decades from even being close to having the technology and the wealth to actually leave the solar system.




It seems to me that terraforming may be a reality before humanity is able to leave the solar system. Both are still very, very far away.


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“People say having kids is life changing, well that doesn’t necessarily mean a good thing, does it? I could take one of my legs off. That would change my life.” -Karl Pilkington



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Offlineskippyluvs
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19395690 - 01/09/14 08:01 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
if they wait till after they fuck up the planet, then there wont be any need to go because by then, well
nobody will be left to go anywhere




"Pray" for this and may humanity never leave this dog shit of a rock the species has so perfectly (naturally) realized to fruition :pipesmoke:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19401950 - 01/11/14 12:49 AM (10 years, 20 days ago)

It bothers me.

Doesn't bother me one bit. If we completely destroyed one planet for each living human, it would only account for less than 0.7% of the planets in our galaxy alone and less than 0.000000000004% of the planets in the universe.

If we completely destroyed one planet per second, it would take longer than humans have existed to get through the planets in our galaxy alone. If we completely destroyed 1,000 planets per second, it would take over 20 times longer than the universe has existed to go through all the planets in the universe.

The universe is a big place. We can fuck up the Earth in the short term, but in a million years the Earth will not even remember we ever existed. And we stand no chance of even putting a dent in our galaxy, let alone the universe.

Also, note for reference that in 5 billion years, the sun will hit the iron barrier and grow larger than the orbit of the Earth, thus incinerating the Earth and all life here no matter what we do. The same goes for every exoplanet.

Don't worry. Be happy. Humans are just puny impotent little creatures with the arrogance to imagine they can actually have consequence in the universe. :ohwell:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: Icelander]
    #19407535 - 01/12/14 09:40 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'll be glad to be gone.  Sad that my species turned out the way it has but glad I don't have to live with it much longer.




Quote:

Diploid said:

The universe is a big place. We can fuck up the Earth in the short term, but in a million years the Earth will not even remember we ever existed. And we stand no chance of even putting a dent in our galaxy, let alone the universe.


Don't worry. Be happy. Humans are just puny impotent little creatures with the arrogance to imagine they can actually have consequence in the universe.
:ohwell:




this probably freaks some people out, but for me its a consolation of sorts.

once we are gone from the planet, within a short period of time our cities will crumble, and  ecosystems will restore themselves and just go on as if nothing had happened

and like you said, thats one inhabitible planet out of a seemingly ineffible number


Edited by spazmodog (01/12/14 11:19 AM)


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Exoplanets: Alien Earths [Re: spazmodog]
    #19407853 - 01/12/14 11:01 AM (10 years, 19 days ago)

:thumbup::peace::heart:


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