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Allisterem
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
#19398918 - 01/10/14 12:53 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Yeah I appreciate you listening as well as challenging. Earns my respect. Part of why I see it the way I do is because I grew up going to church hearing all sorts of beautiful words but when I watched the behaviors it was night and day difference. That taught me early to look through the words and at the actions to see the person. Is it an infallible rule to live by? Nope. And I to this day remember many of the lessons in the words. By now though I've heard so many of the pretty words and seen so little of the beautiful actions that I respect much more those who act in line with their words. I know the words well enough but not those who live them.
Good way to be, cheers! And yeah he does carry on, maybe he's nervous. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. You can see in his nature his northern culture of running on. I can see why the Dalai Lama might emphasize "American" Lama if he did indeed say that.
Thanks for sharing OP!
Edited by Allisterem (01/10/14 12:59 PM)
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Sse
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Allisterem]
#19398957 - 01/10/14 01:00 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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"the more you remove the obscurations the more the potential blossoms" - interviewer
"the more we thin the clouds the more the light shines through"
"what I have to say about god and Buddhism" -surya das
"thank god for Buddhism" -surya das
I think he may be called the American lama because he was officially lama'd or something hehe... spent decades or something studying in the east, or if not that full time in the east, decades practicing Buddhism or something, but he was born a jew from America. can't recall his biography but I think that's the gist. Butchered and minimalized, but the gist :p
but ya you may be on to something as well there  and no problemo
Edited by Sse (01/10/14 01:08 PM)
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Grapefruit
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
#19399361 - 01/10/14 02:10 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Yeah I appreciate you listening as well as challenging. Earns my respect. Part of why I see it the way I do is because I grew up going to church hearing all sorts of beautiful words but when I watched the behaviors it was night and day difference. That taught me early to look through the words and at the actions to see the person. Is it an infallible rule to live by? Nope. And I to this day remember many of the lessons in the words. By now though I've heard so many of the pretty words and seen so little of the beautiful actions that I respect much more those who act in line with their words. I know the words well enough but not those who live them.
I only watched five minutes or so but the guy at least didn't seem to pretend he was perfect. Rarely do humans live by good action because it's very difficult. You might find one or two but we can't all live like that. The couple of people I've thought might be like that I find very hard to relate to and seem to learn little from their behaviors. People I tend to respect are generally those who don't try to pretend to be brilliant and don't take themselves or life too seriously, that kind of relaxation toward myself and life is probably the best thing that's come out of my own path so I can relate.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Kickle
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Grapefruit]
#19399554 - 01/10/14 02:55 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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Right, I've never met a perfect person and don't expect to. I take the Dalai Lamas perspective here. If a teacher is different from what they say, then why are they saying it? Have to use my powers of discernment to find a way to spend my time wisely. I've voiced enough of my personal qualms and don't need to get into any more. I don't think any of what he said is bad, just that his mannerisms didn't mesh with the teachings of Buddhism as I see them and so he isn't the teacher for me.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Sse
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
#19400520 - 01/10/14 06:15 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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true, watching tree house masters... and that guy seems to ooze more passion and love then what I am sensing from lama surya das but both could be a misconception. I haven't really seen surya das speak of his own consciousness until at the end there when asked and I think he gave a reasonable response. Is there really a set in stone enlightenment?(maybe saying actualized enlightenment would be set in stone, but who knows how they would operate throughout all of their life.. who knows whats abiding behind the scene of conversation, come and go as you please perhaps, or nonexistent I dunno) I think a lot of people here are enlightened in many different ways... sort of follows the spectrum that he mentioned, that I quoted without quotes. He says as different hindrances are removed different degree's of enlightenment and nirvana are exposed, or something to that nature.
Even amidst the storm, that feeling of okness, evenness that prevails and rides through I think that is nirvana. at least that's the gist of what I picked up from his conversation... it makes sense to me. makes it sound like we've all had a little taste and maybe not even realized. a gradual thing that pervades and brightens as we experience.
In his book awakening the Buddha within it seems he is relaying his teachings, things he found particularly beneficial to his individual journey. never speaking as he is that or that he lives in a certain state, that I can recall... more so passing on the ancient wisdom he accrued living and practicing in the east, long term 3year meditation retreats and such. I think I can relate to that, I feel like teaching is learning... not that I have an intent of teaching but when I post quotes and twerked a bit into my own words at times. I feel like it could be seen similarly... I find relation, quote something I may have found particularly interesting, then learning from it and gaining deeper insight by posting it/ruminating, really without any intent of trying to gain deeper insight but that's what happens(of course there is backsliding)... perhaps hearing comments. For a while now, or at least he mentioned in his book, he has a website called ask a lama where anyone can ask him a question or something... not sure never visited or searched for it... but perhaps he is operating in a similar fashion... relaying what he found interesting and hearing feedback questions finding grist for his mill.... all random speculations but the world/individual is complex...
definitely hard to judge a book by a cover, or by certain phrases and words or brief and even long term interaction, i'm learning these days... my perceptions tend to dig my self in holes at times then later on I find it may not be exactly as I perceived... constantly have to ask myself am I sure? hard to conclude on things like that imo.. so many things could be considered for why a person comes off the way they do... maybe he's holding in a huge dump hehe... no clue but things are very complex. Maybe maybe maybe... endless possibilities. He mentioned I think in that interview about how things can be made useful... I think that's true in many places.. so much grist for our mill. Dharma in everything.
but I think that dalai lama perspective is good(though I can't really set someone in concrete for the rest of their lives every single moment, and even more so can't see their consciousness by their mannerisms alone)... but I don't see it applying here. He did say that is what I am at the end.. referring to the dharma but I can't exactly say what he meant by that... following what was discussed it seems like that's what he practices.
He said he is enlightened enough for him, for now. "I'm doing everything I can about it, and I am satisfied with that to the extent that I can be now. It's a process, an infinite journey, its not about me.. there's no one to get enlightened.. you live out this person in this relative world... as joyce and jefferys son. said he's part animal and part god and gave a example of something that I am not familiar with. given their earlier discussions about god I don't think he meant something egomaniacal by that but who really knows... I'm thinking god is synonymous with nirvana there, given earlier comments. also earlier in the interview it was discussed briefly about us all being god's and goddesses I think, giving a deeper explanation I think but I can't recall... don't know who said it... dangerous territory for myself personally... calling myself a god with my preconceived notions is bound to go to my head :p slippery sloap but I understand there's all sorts of ways to look at it... don't hold me to it because I might change :p actually if I look at it from the view that everything is a reflection of god or nirvana and that there is no abiding self then I think that's understandable and not seeming so ego driven... but still I like the fish from the sea analogy below.
I dunno, my intent was never to psychoanalyze him, I was trying to watch without bias... but there is some bias because of my gratitude to the guy for writing that book... passing on great wisdom imo. changed my life so I am very thankful... but in the interaction I wasn't doing so much analysation of character but absorption of grist hehe... love that phrase has stuck with me... grist is everywhere hehhe
when asked if there was some kind of abiding bliss or awareness.. he said I don't know those are just ideas, the fish doesn't know the sea just cruises around with its mouth open and expelling bubbles and gas.
I think watching from 1:10:40 to the end may give you a different impression of him... that's the time when he actually speaks of his consciousness... unless I am mistaken about something said earlier.
Edited by Sse (01/10/14 06:51 PM)
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
#19400674 - 01/10/14 07:01 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Right, I've never met a perfect person and don't expect to. I take the Dalai Lamas perspective here. If a teacher is different from what they say, then why are they saying it? Have to use my powers of discernment to find a way to spend my time wisely. I've voiced enough of my personal qualms and don't need to get into any more. I don't think any of what he said is bad, just that his mannerisms didn't mesh with the teachings of Buddhism as I see them and so he isn't the teacher for me.
Brad Warner recently did a blog post about spiritual teachers. It was interesting. This discussion reminded me of it. 
http://hardcorezen.info/three-categories-of-big-name-spiritual-teachers/2427
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Sse]
#19401509 - 01/10/14 10:45 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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Funny post man. Maybe he was holding back a big old turd.
I did watch the end but it was still off-putting for me. He didn't answer the guys question, he redirected it to some point he wanted to make about enlightenment. In some ways you could say yes, he is making it about the dharma and not about him. And it sort of reminds me of some story I read along the line. There is a monk and a Bodhisattva sitting in meditation when a demon appears before them. He offers the young monk a gorgeous whore. The young monk refuses adamantly, feeling this an enormous threat to his spiritual practice. No, no, no! The Bodhisattva turns to the demon and says, I'll take her. So he does. And he teaches her the dharma.
Personal indulgence here is the beautiful whore. Using that personal indulgence to teach dharma the Bodhisattva way. It obviously presents a danger. One can lose sight of dharma and get swept up in self indulgence. One can also become afraid of self indulgence and then miss opportunities to teach dharma.
As easy as it is for me to find value in the interview, I still get disturbed when watching the interaction between interviewer and interviewee. Ive noted mostly criticisms but not because that is all I see. But because you already see the merits.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Kickle
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: r72rock]
#19401555 - 01/10/14 10:57 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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Quote:
r72rock said:
Quote:
Kickle said: Right, I've never met a perfect person and don't expect to. I take the Dalai Lamas perspective here. If a teacher is different from what they say, then why are they saying it? Have to use my powers of discernment to find a way to spend my time wisely. I've voiced enough of my personal qualms and don't need to get into any more. I don't think any of what he said is bad, just that his mannerisms didn't mesh with the teachings of Buddhism as I see them and so he isn't the teacher for me.
Brad Warner recently did a blog post about spiritual teachers. It was interesting. This discussion reminded me of it. 
http://hardcorezen.info/three-categories-of-big-name-spiritual-teachers/2427
Just read it, I pretty well agree
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
#19401581 - 01/10/14 11:05 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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hehe he did sort of look constipated 
I see what your saying
there definitely could be a bit of that and can see how it could be interpreted as such.. just don't know if that is actually the case or not.. if it is I mean could be something he's just not used to doing, like he sort of mentioned.. that he isn't always doing interviews but teaching or doing something else... maybe he's not gained the dharma of experience so much in a scenario like that(maybe more of a dharma of transmission/experience)... a bit of a prepubescent Buddha so to speak hehe like all of us. He's still being there while getting there hehe like how the interview started. I can admire that 
that question at the end, about who he would be if he'd remained himself? hard question to answer imo but ya he could have addressed it if that's what you're referring to... sounds like a good question to get someone to expose a possibly deeper ego.. what crossed my mind anyway.
Edited by Sse (01/10/14 11:06 PM)
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Kickle
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Sse]
#19401587 - 01/10/14 11:08 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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Yeah that was the question. I'd have preferred an "I don't know" to putting a new question into the interviewers mouth.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
#19401610 - 01/10/14 11:18 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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if that's the case also I don't know.. the interviewer said well ya I was beating around the bush.. but could be just something he said in response. can't really say on either though
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: r72rock]
#19401612 - 01/10/14 11:18 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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nice information to consider there
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
#19401648 - 01/10/14 11:29 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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If he is a con or a hoax type milking the blood of the spiritual interest.. I still can't really judge him, I mean I am no better then that anyway.. we've all got our foibles and the ego can be a slippery bar of soap that I know all too well... I forgive him
he never lied on one thing... all can be made useful... the rest I've gotten from him, and probably that too can be attributed to too many beings to count or attempt to list... so at least his manipulation is in order if so :P
"Thanks to all the beings who have brought us this food."

may be that his particular style and transmission just resonated with me but I find resonation in things that strike that particular cord of familiarity within me... surya das was just the first book I picked up(someone recommended here on a thread a long time ago.. bought it sat in my draw for a long time before I hit bottom enough to read it hehe) and even hearing the word mindfulness alone struck deep within me, just that word alone in context opened something up within me. never really heard that word used before that haha... so weird now that I think about it... maybe I just wasn't paying attention
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (01/10/14 11:37 PM)
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Kickle
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Sse]
#19401663 - 01/10/14 11:32 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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I don't think he's a con but I admire your perspective
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
#19401715 - 01/10/14 11:43 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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the one with Mooji is awesome
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Sse
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
#19401726 - 01/10/14 11:44 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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thanks man it's been good talking with you.. I admire your perspectives as well 
always fun to share them
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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Sse
Saṃsāra

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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: g00ru]
#19401729 - 01/10/14 11:45 PM (10 years, 20 days ago) |
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I agree with that as well... and succinct
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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