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OfflineSse
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Registered: 12/28/12
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Buddha at the gas pump
    #19388883 - 01/08/14 03:58 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

thanks chronic for messaging me this interview with lama surya das... found it to be insightful. Made me think about some things.. put a couple things into a different perspective for me as well. Long video but glad to have watched the whole thing through.

scroll down a little to find the vid

http://batgap.com/lama-surya-das/?utm_source=BatGap+Newsletter&utm_campaign=d914f0cae4-RSS_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b0e5d0d53a-d914f0cae4-316074977


Bubble in the Trouble :sun:


Edited by Sse (01/08/14 04:19 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Sse]
    #19389332 - 01/08/14 05:06 PM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Can you sum up what you found so interesting?  I hate watching long vids unless I'm in for something worthwhile.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSse
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Registered: 12/28/12
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Icelander]
    #19392876 - 01/09/14 09:52 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

sure lemme wake up a bit

it begins to open up around the 10:30 mark


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (01/09/14 10:17 AM)


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Sse]
    #19393339 - 01/09/14 11:41 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

I haven't watched it myself but i remember his book on Buddhism was pretty cool & i liked that he had taken mushrooms before & sought to repeat the experience through buddhist meditation, i think the buddhist monk he asked about it just laughed at him & called him silly dreaming westerner or something, you've quoted him extensively so thought id send you the link to the interview

There are loads of interviews on that Buddha at the Gas Pump, a few of them are worth checking out, but to be honest a lot of them aren't!


--------------------


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OfflineSse
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Icelander]
    #19393410 - 01/09/14 12:00 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Rough quotes, direct quotes, my own words... sometimes mixed together.

I like how they are speaking about being there while getting there. Every step of the way is the way.

"The goal is all along the path"

"every step of the way to heaven is heaven"

"There's nirvana and enlightenment within some sorrow and delusion" - a rumor

we have to confirm the rumor for ourselves


just like we can't describe the full experience of the taste of an orange in words.. we can write a thousand words describing it but it can never be actually conveyed... no where near the vividness of actually eating an orange. -interviewer

I think that is like most things.. emotions... not cut and dry concepts. Especially with emotional concepts. When we can see through the interpretation of the past to the present... I think we can find a chunk of nirvana/enlightenment within them all... all along the journey.
.
.
.
.
The first taste of nirvana, has been called stream entry. He likened it to a pickle. the first dunk of a cucumber isn't going to pickle, 10 minutes isn't going to pickle. 30 minutes isn't going to pickle. It has to sit and bathe. Then once it has become pickled, there is no un-pickling. There is no going back to cucumberness.
.
.
.
All different kinds of enlightenment, as we remove obscurations, defilements, negativities, unskillfulness, veils, hindrances, what have you. Imo it isn't things are forcefully removed but things we learn to transcend or see through... seeing the ocean in the sky. Seeing the interconnectedness.. what gives delusion it's fuel/interpretation/view. Ultimately empty and without any concrete existence... built on our ideas/mental images/reactions. Piercing the veil of delusion, knowing that and bathing in the sea of unknowing, unarresting, undeveloped... we may find our created interpretation doing a 180.... then what opens up out of that ime is some equanimity... then more equanimity. Then what's to stop us from cultivating the good/love-mind/compassion/self-compassion in any situation? Sustained/rebounding skillfulness... every situation can be viewed from the point of what's most skillful/healing/restoring/compassion(which is self-compassion)... we can impart kindness on ourselves through complete transformation of unskillful/unwholesome/selfishness... into selflessness... no more personalism that entangle "you." Free flowing unhindered awareness begins to shine through and evolve the unskillful self-delusion... I think that's the beginning of nirvana. I think many of us have experienced it to a degree... but we can always go deeper and our views can always be improved realistically... there is realism in the manifest as well... true modes of connection/selflessness through virtue, empathy/understanding, compassion/self-compassion. I think the true expression is accompanied with the big picture, insight, interconnection, cause-effect, true equanimity, all-perfection, unconditional, without concrete self. Not that the cut and paste concepts are the true expression. The good/skillful/wholesome can be cultivated, so why not allow it to cultivate and pervade all aspects? Self-compassion, self-inquiry, self-realization, no-self; no hang ups. All in process. Free flowing restoration... bye bye concept/self-concept... is what it is.
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.
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Many different paths, ways.... no real strict ways. People have gotten to stages of enlightenment without any knowledge of meditation or any practices... all sorts of different scheme's.... I think they mentioned forest gump in the beginning because his life was sort of accident. That's how our lives are... enlightenment/life plays out on your personal level... people who have no knowledge of any of this, have big awakening moments in their lives and things get put into perspective on a different level... but you can't really operate outside of your life given scheme. If conditions are right, then conditions are right.
.
.
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Things like small awakening moments, epiphanies, moments of clarity, piercing the veil into nirvana... often mistake that for all that there can be, the pinnacle of the spiritual experience. This can lead to self-righteous ego constructs. -interviewer

"don't mistake understanding for realization" "Don't mistaken realization for liberation"

"understanding the full range in our western world is in a fledgling state" - interviewer

"results in people putting people up on pedestals. Kind of short changing themselves. Gaining some intuitive understanding, mistaking that for the final attainment... they are short changing themselves." -Interviewer

the more we can understand the full range of possibilities, the various stages one traverses going through that range, the more valuable it will be for our spiritual engagement, in the west. -From the interviewer

buddists have worked this out to a great degree... they've had thousands of years to nuance it to a great degree.

They've been detailed in a semi scholarly way.

tao te ching
"to cut through all of that, the way that can be weighed, is not the true way, the name that can be named is not the true ultimate."

"thousand names, all just place holders."

"impossible to express in words, or for the rational mind to comprehend"

"not that it hasn't been talked about discussed and experienced."

"there is a difference between... and this is a spectrum"

"there is a spectrum of wisdom, development, realization, information, learning, understanding, knowledge, experience, insight, and further insight, self realization, mind realization, liberation, enlightenment."

"a lot of information, understanding, knowledge, but not as much insight, self-knowledge, wisdom. "

"Spiritual path is to cultivate and develop wisdom. Cultivating the flabby muscles, mentally and experientially. "

"the intuitive and rational sides of the brain. Body and soul, heart and mind. To bring them together. "

"luminous perception of oneness, everything perfect and complete as it is, even though we can always use tweaking. still working towards being a better person, working for a better world."

"Deep equanimity, centeredness through it all.. taking in the big picture(interconnection). Developing gradually through time... the gradual path of enlightenment. "

"gradual cultivation, sudden realization.... not contradictory, complimentary."

"enlightenment may be an accident, but spiritual practice makes you accident prone"

"we are human/animals beings and we have rational minds. we live in a world of duality. though that is the oneness itself. It is oneness itself. The one is in the many."

"in the world of duality there is karma, cause and effect, helpful and harmful acts, so on."

"great perfection is the view from above"

"the view from below, is climbing up the mountain, through ethical practices, mind-training, good deeds, altruism, developing loving-kindness, compassion. All the spiritual virtues, common to almost all the spiritual sacred traditions of the world."

"Balancing that, swooping down from above, with the big picture, the view, oneness, equality, great emptiness we call it in buddhism... while climbing up the spiritual mountain, path from below, through relative practices, ethical morality, good deeds, so on, trying to get a better rebirth(open to interpretation, my interpretation is the rebirth of here and now), ascending the latter of enlightenment, climbing up the path from below, according to our relative capacities and aspirations. Swooping while climbing, not just swooping, like skieing straight down the mountain having it crash landing. Not just climbing and losing sight of the whole forest because were lost in the trees... fighting over the other religionists, whether u should go left or right... it might look like were going different directions, but were all ascending the same mountain... with the same goal, generally speaking... not theologically."

"even the dalai lama says, lets not argue about heaven and nirvana.. lets just recognize the very similar and same goal... for now. Leave the theological nuances/differences for the theologians to work out. So I think its like swooping while climbing. Being there while getting there. Seeing the one in the many. Seeing the Buddha and the buddhaness, the perfection, the beauty in all and everything. not just the people we love and like.... all beings... not just human beings... everything. The Buddha nature in all beings.... inner light... the spirit."

"Pure self is the ultimate reality, the ground state of the universe... all that exists. If we concede to duality... at least it has to be at the core of everything."-interviewer

"All pervasive. All that exists. The core of everything."

"Nothing is not nihilism, not a thing but also everything. Hold that at the same time... Both and... the bigger mind. "

"Electrons are both waves and particles. They are both and neither. Its hard to pin down. Just like we are neither one nor separate."

"Unity and the duality. God in us and all beings, all beings in god... if u want to use those words... its like finger painting... imprecise... watered down when put in language. Rational thought very imprecise."

"The intellect is an excellent servant/tool but a poor master. We are to much under its thrall. "

"in the beginning was the law, reality, as it is... hard to translate.. not the beginning was the word. "

haha... ok going to take an intermission... i'm only at the 34:16 mark on the video. Thank you for having me go back through it... good to hear again and mull over. :smile:

the discussion to me begins to open up more, in the video at around the 10 minute mark. The very beginning is more of some of lama surya das' biography.


Edited by Sse (01/10/14 11:11 AM)


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OfflineSse
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Chronic7]
    #19393531 - 01/09/14 12:31 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

the first book I stumbled upon on Buddhism as well. Awakening the Buddha Within by lama surya das

fantastic book, great wisdom brought back from his decades of detailed experience... well spoken full of many insights for myself.... good tool for sure.

I typically don't like to sit through interviews like that either but of course had to give this one a shot... was a bit slow in the beginning but definitely grist for the mill to be had... good to ruminate. :strokebeard2:

Thanks again my friend :happyheart:

at the end of the video, after watching it start to finish... he wanted to sort of get out of the "word realm" by doing a bit of chanting/singing.... after his chant... I felt love shoot out within me... enveloped me... ignited my soul in a very beautiful way. :sun:


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (01/09/14 12:35 PM)


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OfflineSse
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Registered: 12/28/12
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Sse]
    #19393898 - 01/09/14 02:16 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)



there is no love and understanding

if we ought to live together... why not care?

why should we live in stress pain and strain?

Let our fathers blessing fall down like rain

have a heart, lets make a brand new start.

and live in love and unity forever and always.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (01/09/14 02:27 PM)


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OfflineSse
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Sse]
    #19393902 - 01/09/14 02:18 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)



Love has found its way :sun:


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (01/09/14 02:19 PM)


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Sse]
    #19398444 - 01/10/14 11:13 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Whenever I watch those Buddha at the gas pump interviews I tend to feel bad for the interviewer. Whenever he tries to get his 2 cents in he is almost always cut off midway. A lot of times it seems like the interviewee gets on a soapbox and can't get off.

I watched a little over half.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineSse
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
    #19398508 - 01/10/14 11:28 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

its the only one I've seen but ya I see what you're saying... noticed that myself too. Who knows maybe he already knows what is going to be said, or the gist... he did mention psychic powers a few times :p I can't rule it out, in all seriousness. If anyone can say they can then I call shenanigans.

I watched it in sections of about 20minutes... wasn't to hard to get through that way. was worth watching through to the end imo.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (01/10/14 11:30 AM)


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Sse]
    #19398539 - 01/10/14 11:35 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Not psychic enough to see the impression he was leaving on this audience member :shrug:

He could be psychic and still allow the man to finish a question if only for the audiences sake. You know, a little bit of selflessness.

I thought some of what he said was good and I even chuckled when he called himself a whore (of spiritual views). But I couldn't take what appeared as oh so much self centered pontificating. In a book? Sure. In an interview? Nah, that style is not for me.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineSse
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
    #19398562 - 01/10/14 11:41 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

if there were psychic powers then how would I have any idea how they would work... no idea there.

take a million people watch the same thing and there will be a million different impression

true there, the last sentence, I agree with that... but how do I know that the guy didn't get his sentences out after being interrupted? I can't recall every instance of it happening but I can recall a few... sometimes when a persons seems to be done expressing his response to one question or statement, may just be in a pause of reflection or something. I know that happens to me a lot in real life... then how do you tell who is actually being interrupted? It  happens a lot within the first few syllables.. and a lot of times its both colliding. Depends on how an individual interprets it I guess.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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OfflineSse
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
    #19398567 - 01/10/14 11:42 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

one mans perception

I didn't see it that way at all.. to be fair most interviews I see are that way when an interviewer is interviewing and interested in the interviewee... that's the intention of the interview a lot of times it seems, to hear what the interviewee has to express... but ya there should be give and take and I see that there was a great deal of give and take... a lot of interesting things were actually picked up from the interviewee.. on my end... I think I got a good balance from both.. I dunno I'll have to watch it again with that in mind next time.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (01/10/14 11:52 AM)


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Sse]
    #19398589 - 01/10/14 11:47 AM (10 years, 21 days ago)

A lot of different interpretations for sure. I saw him cut off the interviewer multiple times and it rubbed me the wrong way. Just providing my personal feedback. His words were not valuable enough for me personally to overcome that recurring interaction. Actions > words for me.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineSse
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
    #19398609 - 01/10/14 11:51 AM (10 years, 20 days ago)

fair enough... just didn't rub me that way at all. Maybe I am just used to those sorts of interactions in real life that they have become benign... our brains are active and pumping... collisions are bound to happen. I did see the interviewer getting (seemed, cant really say) frustrated and raising his voice pretty loud at times.. so he may have felt like that as well

I think there was still good give and take... one opinion


from my reflection... which is ignorant right now because I can't recall every moment in the interview... id say it could be interpreted either way... I do see looking at it now the interviewer speaking loud and butting in directly in the middle(edit: not literally the middle, who's to say.. toward the end sounds more appropriate :p) of surya das' sentences too. I think its going both ways.
edit: not sure if either of these paragraphs got in before your thumbs up :p above and below
ya for sure, at least in this share of words... the interviewer is doing the same thing when surya obviously(or not so obvious)is still talking. he speaks slow and mild and has some kind of long pauses so it may seem like he is done when he obviously isn't(in this one bit of exchange to me, at least)some other exchanges, perhaps not so obvious or not obvious at all .. I'm seeing it go both ways.


Edited by Sse (01/10/14 12:23 PM)


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Sse]
    #19398643 - 01/10/14 11:57 AM (10 years, 20 days ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineSse
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
    #19398696 - 01/10/14 12:06 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

:heart: I do appreciate your feed back and I can see what you are saying for sure. I can see how it can come off, or even may be exactly that way.... for all I know he could be a raging megalomaniac.... but grist for the mill to be had for sure, imo.

I did find a lot of good grist for the mill towards the end as well, from both of them... tbh the interviewer may have struck more cords for me, or inspired the convo's I found most interesting.. he had a lot of good comments.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (01/10/14 12:14 PM)


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Sse]
    #19398778 - 01/10/14 12:24 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

Yeah I appreciate you listening as well as challenging. Earns my respect. Part of why I see it the way I do is because I grew up going to church hearing all sorts of beautiful words but when I watched the behaviors it was night and day difference. That taught me early to look through the words and at the actions to see the person. Is it an infallible rule to live by? Nope. And I to this day remember many of the lessons in the words. By now though I've heard so many of the pretty words and seen so little of the beautiful actions that I respect much more those who act in line with their words. I know the words well enough but not those who live them.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineAllisterem
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
    #19398867 - 01/10/14 12:45 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

"Reading about it (path to enlightenment) is like reading a menu, you're not going to have your hunger satisfied until you take action."

Stealing that, albeit I'll likely change it.

He has a few good analogies in there.


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OfflineSse
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Re: Buddha at the gas pump [Re: Kickle]
    #19398900 - 01/10/14 12:50 PM (10 years, 20 days ago)

Golden :thumbup: mucho respect your way :hug:

in agreeance with much of what you say there and can relate. definitely is hard to tell a persons character even in an interview that long. they talk about close to the end(how it can be hard to tell a person from interacting, something like that) before lama surya das chants out, Lama surya das I think gave a very realistic(maybe not the right word) view of his level of consciousness... he seems to relay he is a work in progress. He discusses that there are all sorts of degree's of enlightenment and degree's of nirvana.. when lama surya das tells the interviewer go ahead and ask what you are wanting to ask or something to that nature... "am I enlightened?" He says he is enlightened enough to be happy... that it is a process and can always go further or something like that.

The interviewer begins the "personal question" regarding his consciousness at the 1:10:57 mark. I think he gave a reasonable response.

but I don't know how lama surya das' consciousness truly is or how he ticks, or even how his day to day life is, how he operates or how he conducts and teaches what he teaches, in person, day to day, whatever he does. I won't put him up on a pedestal, or think of him as someone to be considered perfect but I do think he has a good presence, from this little interview I watched(the only time I've seen his conduct in any way.) Got this from his book awakening the Buddha within but all can be made grist for the mill, and I think he has some good grist if nothing else hehe.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


Edited by Sse (01/10/14 01:17 PM)


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