|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Crystal G]
#19383709 - 01/07/14 05:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Not having rules is complexity? Most native speaking elementary school children can learn the English language quite well and speak it correctly almost 100% of the time. They couldn't get near higher math. The English language has 26 symbols. Mathematics has far more
I really don't think you have any business at all opining on the complexity of mathematical language since you are clearly utterly ignorant of anything beyond plus, minus, times and gazzinta.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_symbols
I think morrow is talking about a higher level of english. Basic english yes, its not that hard But have you ever picked up a book written by hegel? Even many college graduates cannot understand that level of written language. I've read lots of political philosophy, and even I found hegel supremely difficult to read. Only graduate students who have been trained can read something on that level. But the same does apply to advanced calculus as well.
The only book I ever tried to read that was ostensibly in English but found utterly incomprehensible was by Joyce. Ulysses, to be precise. Hve not attempted Hegel. Will see if I can find some snippets.
The calculus is not the pinnacle of math complexity by a long shot.
--------------------
|
lifeiswhatyoumake
Sake Psychic sig


Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,867
Last seen: 6 minutes, 13 seconds
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: zappaisgod]
#19383734 - 01/07/14 05:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Algebra is the pinnacle of math.
-------------------- Check out my new psytrance track "Sake Psychic": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xyEPGfiDrA ;
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: zappaisgod]
#19383743 - 01/07/14 05:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Checked him out. He is a Flying Spaghetti Monster guy
--------------------
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
#19383745 - 01/07/14 05:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
lifeiswhatyoumake said: Algebra is the pinnacle of math.
For you.
--------------------
|
lifeiswhatyoumake
Sake Psychic sig


Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,867
Last seen: 6 minutes, 13 seconds
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: zappaisgod]
#19383929 - 01/07/14 05:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
This is true.
-------------------- Check out my new psytrance track "Sake Psychic": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xyEPGfiDrA ;
|
morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 17 days, 21 hours
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
#19384423 - 01/07/14 07:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
You can think about the complexity of something like this: If you were to make a physics which could make predictive laws about its behavior, on what order of magnitude would the calculations be? Mathematics, because they adhere to systems of rule-based definitions or inference rules that are made explicit prior to all instances of inference therefrom, would be describable in a physics that uses linear calculations, and thus can never be as complex as language. Language requires something like a quantum physics to predictively characterize its behavior using mathematical models.
Complexity is not related to how difficult something was for you to learn or is for you to use. Our brains are hard-wired to do 99% of the complex calculations involved in language use, but simple mathematics like arithmetic is not hard-wired into our brains. Noam Chomsky dedicated his entire linguistics career to attempting to describe complements of the portion of the system that is hard-wired into the brain.
Edited by morrowasted (01/07/14 07:28 PM)
|
lifeiswhatyoumake
Sake Psychic sig


Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,867
Last seen: 6 minutes, 13 seconds
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: zappaisgod]
#19384685 - 01/07/14 07:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
What's the pinnacle of math for you zappaisgod?
-------------------- Check out my new psytrance track "Sake Psychic": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xyEPGfiDrA ;
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: lifeiswhatyoumake]
#19384703 - 01/07/14 07:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
I find topology utterly incomprehensible. Chaos theory. I'm sure there are other fields I don't even know about.
--------------------
|
morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 17 days, 21 hours
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: zappaisgod]
#19384740 - 01/07/14 07:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Chaos theory is not that complex in any sense of the word
|
lifeiswhatyoumake
Sake Psychic sig


Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,867
Last seen: 6 minutes, 13 seconds
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: zappaisgod]
#19384754 - 01/07/14 08:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I find topology utterly incomprehensible. Chaos theory. I'm sure there are other fields I don't even know about.
I'm not sure you know what pinnacle means. It means the high point. You think something you don't even understand is the high point of math? I don't see that logic. Algebra, on the other hand, changed the world as we know it. Thus, I think algebra is the pinnacle of math.
-------------------- Check out my new psytrance track "Sake Psychic": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xyEPGfiDrA ;
|
The Vapor
Lost In A Tea Daze


Registered: 03/22/10
Posts: 8,433
Loc: Misty Mountains, B.C.
Last seen: 2 years, 19 hours
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted] 1
#19384773 - 01/07/14 08:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
morrowasted said: Chaos theory is not that complex in any sense of the word 
Lol, okay. I'm sure you can handle all the math behind the concepts with ease.
--------------------

|
Magicman69
All About the Benjamins



Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 6,876
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: The Vapor]
#19384794 - 01/07/14 08:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Vapor said:
Quote:
morrowasted said: Chaos theory is not that complex in any sense of the word 
Lol, okay. I'm sure you can handle all the math behind the concepts with ease.
Probably does the calculations in his head. Is that you Stephen Hawking?
Edited by Magicman69 (01/07/14 08:09 PM)
|
morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 17 days, 21 hours
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
#19387444 - 01/08/14 11:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
morrowasted said: You can think about the complexity of something like this: If you were to make a physics which could make predictive laws about its behavior, on what order of magnitude would the calculations be? Mathematics, because they adhere to systems of rule-based definitions or inference rules that are made explicit prior to all instances of inference therefrom, would be describable in a physics that uses linear calculations, and thus can never be as complex as language. Language requires something like a quantum physics to predictively characterize its behavior using mathematical models.
Complexity is not related to how difficult something was for you to learn or is for you to use. Our brains are hard-wired to do 99% of the complex calculations involved in language use, but simple mathematics like arithmetic is not hard-wired into our brains. Noam Chomsky dedicated his entire linguistics career to attempting to describe complements of the portion of the system that is hard-wired into the brain.
I recommend these books for anyone seeking to further understand this process:
The Neuroscience of Language: On Brain Circuits of Words and Serial Order (Cambridge Companions to Philosophy)

The Biolinguistic Enterprise: New Perspectives on the Evolution and Nature of the Human Language Faculty

Edited by morrowasted (01/08/14 11:16 AM)
|
morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 17 days, 21 hours
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
#19387971 - 01/08/14 12:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
#19387975 - 01/08/14 12:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 17 days, 21 hours
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: LiquidGlass]
#19387993 - 01/08/14 12:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
LiquidGlass said:

cliffs: zappa vastly misunderstands the concept of complexity


|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted] 1
#19528963 - 02/06/14 05:10 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
schwarg



Registered: 07/15/12
Posts: 2,817
Loc: San Diego
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: LiquidGlass]
#19528968 - 02/06/14 05:15 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
|
|
What the hell is this thread even about now.......fucking intellectuals...
--------------------
|
LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
|
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: schwarg]
#19529050 - 02/06/14 05:55 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
|
|
Lol no shit . . .
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
|
|