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Offlineiarphairc
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: greenspectral]
    #19384377 - 01/07/14 06:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Just how hard would it be to synthesize lsd? Need a chemistry undergrad degree or that level of proficiency? I really am quite ignorant in this regard


--------------------
The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant- Maximilien Robespierre


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: iarphairc]
    #19384383 - 01/07/14 06:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

iarphairc said:
Just how hard would it be to synthesize lsd? Need a chemistry undergrad degree or that level of proficiency? I really am quite ignorant in this regard




Read the reddit link on the previous page


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Invisibleschwarg
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: iarphairc]
    #19384389 - 01/07/14 06:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think getting the compounds necessary to synthesize it would be the more difficult part. But then again I don't know shit about chemistry.

Too bad Pickard got caught, there'd be so much of the shit going around. :feelsbatman:


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Offlines240779
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: schwarg]
    #19384403 - 01/07/14 06:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A 10 year old could do it if he could get all the necessary reagents and equipment.


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Offlineiarphairc
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19384447 - 01/07/14 07:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Is it reliable/accurate? Somebody was casting doubts on it


--------------------
The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant- Maximilien Robespierre


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Offlinemaddad
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: s240779]
    #19384478 - 01/07/14 07:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
Quote:

iarphairc said:
Just how hard would it be to synthesize lsd? Need a chemistry undergrad degree or that level of proficiency? I really am quite ignorant in this regard




Read the reddit link on the previous page




Or just actually learn chemistry... I don't care what you are sysnthesizing or extracting or whatever else. You can't half ass things like that. Sure some people could get by with little chemistry knowledge and do well, but most people would blow themselves up.

Like someone else said before, even if it were legal you most likely wouldn't be able to synthesize it anyway. But I have also heard that MDMA was difficult as well for different reasons.

The main point is that if you were running an LSD lab, it would get shut down even if the country you were making it in had no laws against it. Because most likely it would be making its way to countries where there are laws against it, and that is illegal.

If you really want to make it just make it.  There is really no way to get outside the law on that one.
Quote:

Da2ra said:
A 10 year old could do it if he could get all the necessary reagents and equipment.




I'm sorry are we talking about LSD or rock candy? Because I think the synthesis of LSD would require more knowledge than a ten year old has. And if you truely believe that you shouldn't be making or taking LSD in my opinion...


--------------------
I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna


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Offlines240779
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: maddad]
    #19384487 - 01/07/14 07:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

maddad said:
Quote:

Da2ra said:
A 10 year old could do it if he could get all the necessary reagents and equipment.




I'm sorry are we talking about LSD or rock candy? Because I think the synthesis of LSD would require more knowledge than a ten year old has. And if you truely believe that you shouldn't be making or taking LSD in my opinion...




If he has good instructions, he can.


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Offlinemaddad
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: s240779]
    #19384552 - 01/07/14 07:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

maddad said:
Quote:

Da2ra said:
A 10 year old could do it if he could get all the necessary reagents and equipment.




I'm sorry are we talking about LSD or rock candy? Because I think the synthesis of LSD would require more knowledge than a ten year old has. And if you truely believe that you shouldn't be making or taking LSD in my opinion...




If he has good instructions, he can.




Yeah because when you follow a recipe your food turns out exactly like the chefs right? When you get back to reality maybe someone can help you out.


--------------------
I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna


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Offlines240779
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: maddad]
    #19384613 - 01/07/14 07:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

maddad said:
Yeah because when you follow a recipe your food turns out exactly like the chefs right? When you get back to reality maybe someone can help you out.




No comparison. There's no art to chemistry. It's exact and technical. Cooking, on the other hands, is an art.


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Offlinemaddad
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: s240779]
    #19384688 - 01/07/14 07:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Ok well then you move to a country that has no laws against it and tell me how that works out for you. I am assuming you have never read TIHKAL or PIHKAL, and that you know almost nothing of what you are actually trying to accomplish. Mixing two chemicals the wrong way could spell death for even the most advanced of chemists. So if you are seriously considering that as an option I would suggest you hit the books!


--------------------
I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna


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Offlinemaddad
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: maddad]
    #19384721 - 01/07/14 07:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

And as for chemistry not being an art, I would have to beg to differ. Especially in the case of Alexander Shulgin, he has created more psychedelic substances than the rest of the world has combined. And if you read TIHKAL or PIHKAL it will be clear it was art to him.


--------------------
I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna


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Offlines240779
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: maddad]
    #19384742 - 01/07/14 07:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah. Truthfully I was just instigating people to give clarification because I've never seen it addressed why a person with no chemistry knowledge can't simply follow guidelines for the particular chemical they're trying to produce.


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Offlinemaddad
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: s240779]
    #19384765 - 01/07/14 08:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Because it is exactly like following a food recipe. You know what you need and how to mix it, but you lack the experience to actually make it taste good. With all of the processes that take place in-between you need to know what's going on all the time.


--------------------
I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna


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Offlines240779
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: maddad]
    #19384786 - 01/07/14 08:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Not really feeling your explanation.

Can you give me one example of a step in a synthesis that an inexperienced person might mess up?


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: maddad]
    #19384818 - 01/07/14 08:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

maddad said:
And as for chemistry not being an art, I would have to beg to differ. Especially in the case of Alexander Shulgin, he has created more psychedelic substances than the rest of the world has combined. And if you read TIHKAL or PIHKAL it will be clear it was art to him.




Sure but designing a synthesis is not the same thing as just following one.

The LSD synthesis in TIHKAL does not really sound all that complicated if you had all the materials and were familiar with the techniques used. A lot would be understandable to the average high school chem student: getting things to a certain temp or pH and then adding a certain mass of something, setting up a reflux apparatus, vacuum filtration, etc etc. For the techniques/apparatus you are not familiar with (perhaps ensuring an inert atmosphere for the first step, or doing the chromatographic separation later on) instructional material is readily available.

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal26.shtml

Obtaining the ergotamine tartrate and diethylamine would be challenging though, and I'm guessing things get a lot more complicated if you want to start from unwatched precursors.


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: koods]
    #19384871 - 01/07/14 08:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Magicman69 said:
What's harder to create, LSD or MDMA? Just curious. Which one takes more knowledge and needs more difficult to obtain materials?




LSD by many orders of magnitude.




Nope, not according to that guy who made LSD and is taking questions on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/1u64zl/i_am_a_chemist_who_has_illicitly_synthesized/




This sounds sketchy. He says he would have a hard time mass producing LSD because people would notice the missing diethylamine. BS. I have enough diethylamine to supply the world with LSD for the next decade sitting on a shelf - one bottle. It's not only a reagent, it's also a solvent and can be purchased by the gallon. :rolleyes:




Agreed.
In addition, this comment is :rolleyes:

Quote:

Now, about "bad acid", the last step in making LSD is the separation of the inactive isomers and impurites from the active isomer d-iso-lysergic acid diethylamide. Only ~30% of the the crude product is LSD, the rest are these inactive isomers and some side reaction products as well. These impurities are only inactive in the brain, they have many effects on the body that contribute to the "body load" or "roughness" of the trip. I am certain that "bad acid" is unpurified crude product, containing a mixture of the aforementioned molecules and LSD. Acid needs to be purified via chromatography twice, once on silica to remove the side reaction products and leftover reactants, and a second time using a chiral substrate to separate the active isomers from the inactive ones. Large, professional labs could easily accomplish this, but smaller, less professional labs might forgo this and create what you call "bad acid".




--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One


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Offlines240779
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19384888 - 01/07/14 08:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

tymoteusz3 said:
In addition, this comment is :rolleyes:

Quote:

Now, about "bad acid", the last step in making LSD is the separation of the inactive isomers and impurites from the active isomer d-iso-lysergic acid diethylamide. Only ~30% of the the crude product is LSD, the rest are these inactive isomers and some side reaction products as well. These impurities are only inactive in the brain, they have many effects on the body that contribute to the "body load" or "roughness" of the trip. I am certain that "bad acid" is unpurified crude product, containing a mixture of the aforementioned molecules and LSD. Acid needs to be purified via chromatography twice, once on silica to remove the side reaction products and leftover reactants, and a second time using a chiral substrate to separate the active isomers from the inactive ones. Large, professional labs could easily accomplish this, but smaller, less professional labs might forgo this and create what you call "bad acid".








He knows exactly what he's talking about. There are chemicals that are only active somatically. For example, when I was reading up on scopolamine, I learned that the butylbromide salt of scopolamine does not cross the blood-brain-barrier and is used for its somatic properties. The hydrobromide salt, by contrast, is a potent psychoactive.


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InvisibleCyclohexylamine
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: s240779]
    #19384906 - 01/07/14 08:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:


He knows exactly what he's talking about. There are chemicals that are only active somatically. For example, when I was reading up on scopolamine, I learned that the butylbromide salt of scopolamine does not cross the blood-brain-barrier and is used for its somatic properties. The hydrobromide salt, by contrast, is a potent psychoactive.




No he doesn't.  He is assuming things which do not have any proof when there are much simpler explanations.


--------------------
Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name

Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world?


There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K
Something abut that anaesthetic rush... :inlove:

Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences
The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine
The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One


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Offlines240779
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
    #19384917 - 01/07/14 08:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Seems like the ergoline alkaloid, lysergol, for example, causes vasocontriction only -- not mental effects: http://advancedchemicla.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/an-introduction-about-lysergol/


There is also experiential evidence to support bad acid:


At burning man he knowingly gave away a really bad batch of LSD; you know the muddy black stuff. It caused several people to go into convulsions.

Krystle Cole speaking about Todd Skinner. Interviewed by James Kent. (8/27/05)


The one time I worked with champagne crystal I felt like I was poisoned. It was black nasty shit and I only ate a tiny speck not a thumbprint.

2/2/04. chinacat72. Re: LSD death


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Offlinemaddad
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Re: Where in the world would it be legal to synthesize LSD? [Re: psi]
    #19384968 - 01/07/14 08:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

For example you should always mix liquids into powders, instead of the other way around. Simple things like that could get you into trouble if you don't know what you are doing. Basically the point I am trying to get across is that its not that easy. Sure maybe it is to someone that this stuff come natural to, but you have to have some knowledge of chemistry to make sure all the steps are occurring properly. I am using the cooking reference because I feel it has a strong connection. Because like you said a ten year old could do it if he had the right materials/ingredients. But let me ask you would you rather have a 10 year old who only follows the recipe or someone who went to culinary school make your dinner? And if that doesn't seem relevant to you than I can be of no more help.
Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

maddad said:
And as for chemistry not being an art, I would have to beg to differ. Especially in the case of Alexander Shulgin, he has created more psychedelic substances than the rest of the world has combined. And if you read TIHKAL or PIHKAL it will be clear it was art to him.




Sure but designing a synthesis is not the same thing as just following one.

The LSD synthesis in TIHKAL does not really sound all that complicated if you had all the materials and were familiar with the techniques used. A lot would be understandable to the average high school chem student: getting things to a certain temp or pH and then adding a certain mass of something, setting up a reflux apparatus, vacuum filtration, etc etc. For the techniques/apparatus you are not familiar with (perhaps ensuring an inert atmosphere for the first step, or doing the chromatographic separation later on) instructional material is readily available.

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal26.shtml

Obtaining the ergotamine tartrate and diethylamine would be challenging though, and I'm guessing things get a lot more complicated if you want to start from unwatched precursors.




Well considering the cost of all the equipment needed and how difficult it is to get said materials, I would say that's very difficult for the average Joe out there to just start up an LSD lab. And if it were that easy there would be more people doing it. How many kids each year do you think go into the chemistry field with high hopes of one day making drugs? Just read Uncle Festers book on how to make LSD. And then learn about real chemistry and see what he does wrong. There are a few fatal mistakes in that book, all on purpose. Same with the one written about making meth.

So if I were anyone planning on synthesizing any compounds I would definitely get some background in chemistry.


--------------------
I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna


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