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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: koods]
#19384690 - 01/07/14 07:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's the stock market. Do you know who is responsible for that? Ben Bernanke.
Pump and dump.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
#19384730 - 01/07/14 07:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh, and just for comparison. The masterminds of the Bush administration started their term with the S&P at 1350, and when they left 8 years later, it was at 850. That a 37% loss over Bush's term, compared to a 100% gain during Obama's tenure. So... STFU about failed liberal policies.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
#19384748 - 01/07/14 07:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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zappaisgod said:
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Patlal said: To all of you advocating that minimum salary shouldn't exist;
We are not in the 1940s anymore, you should grab a couple of history books to catch up and get up with the times.
Truth is, people are much better off now than when there was no minimum salary. We have human rights now, laws that prevents abuse, regulations to prevent extreme variations in the market, hell women have the right to vote!
Are you saying that we have those things because we have a minimum wage?
are you saying we don't? What does it matter? For all the things we have that others don't what we DO have is HUGE wealth inequality. What we DO have is a fair system where a poor uneducated person can walk into a burger king and get a job and do something because there is a minimum wage. Without that burger king might offer $1 an hour. They live on more then that in Compton selling crack. We never have been or will be as poor as another country. Minimum wage sure doesn't hurt that.
So from a perspective a minimum wage as it is keeps many Americans out of poverty and is the reason our country is more prosperous then other countries. Division of wealth. If people want to fight it and vote in people who want it to be higher, good for them. Will it help? Who knows? Will it hurt? Certainly not. We have that right in this country, freedom of speech. We can say whatever we want whenever we want and complain until things or they don't but still complain. I'm all for a minimum wage raise, as I said I don't know if it will do much but people have a right to vote in a politician that wants a wage raise.
Personally, I couldn't give two shits less about Obama in terms of his presidential competence. But for SURE the one thing of his I support is a wage hike which a lot of Republicans oppose strangely. And even though I know Obama wants a minimum wage raise hike to get more taxes and try and tackle the national rising debt and lower spending deficits, and couldn't care less about his fellow man, I have to respect him for that course of action.
He is a smart person this president we have. If I was Rommel and instead of Patton on the battlefield field I was facing general Obama I'd think twice about his decisions. He plays a complete idiot, but is very smart and deceptive and his deceptiveness is cunning. What can I say I feel he deserved to win the election. Romney was a shit candidate anyway but either way no matter what Romney would have ACTUALLY done winning an election, he was not clearly the candidate cut out to win against Obama in a battle of deceptive whits. Which is what wins an election anyway, and Obama was a far more cunning foe, therefore a stronger species.
That is all wages and battles for wages represents to me anyway. It's a battle of survival and only the strongest survive. One way or another if you get paid more you are on top and being on top means you are survival of the fittest. But to me that goes for the whole species. I don't like people whining about wage laws either way, the truth is if people feel to be the fittest species they will do whatever it takes to make more money even if that is crying about a wage increase until it happens nationally. I'm tired of people bitching about what is and isn't "fair" in capitalism. Capitalism is strongest of the fittest. If you are the strongest you go out there and stop the politicians from raising the wages petition or do whatever the fuck it takes. But to keep saying "in a fair free market" etc. tons of crying and whining about who doesn't know economics and elasticity
well get over it, the strongest wins. If they pass this and you don't like them then you got beat. I don't care either way I don't deal with minimum bullshit but I do for sure see a benefit from it not just some dying version of the extinct free market billionaire and those who try to be like billionaires. Oh wah billionaires don't lose they win you get that? When you are the top lion you are not losing you are winning. Nobody should CRY over a billionaire then they should cry over a hungry lion. That IS nature that IS the free market as nature intended this is nature at it's finest
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: koods]
#19384750 - 01/07/14 08:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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koods said: Oh, and just for comparison. The masterminds of the Bush administration started their term with the S&P at 1350, and when they left 8 years later, it was at 850. That a 37% loss over Bush's term, compared to a 100% gain during Obama's tenure. So... STFU about failed liberal policies.
Why don't you tell us about the NASDAQ. Which also cratered.
Liberal policies, i.e. lending money to shit bags, as implemented by Clinton and Cuomo led to the bank problems because the cunting shitbags didn't pay their mortgages. Neither liberal nor conservative policies had anything to do with bursting the tech bubble. It was tulips. I own't blame Clinton or the Congress for it
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
#19384775 - 01/07/14 08:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
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Crystal G said:
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zappaisgod said:
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ShiVersblood said: So u want all poor people to become hunter gather people? Uhhh...... Wtf....
No. I want whiners to stop whining that they are trapped on the wheel. Unimaginative, talentless and lazy hacks.
What if somebody is mentally handicapped and has like Down's Syndrome or something? The entire reason they are given work and can afford living expenses is because of non-discrimination laws and minimum wage.
They are given work out of charity. Minimum wage laws probably inhibit their opportunities to live meaningful lives wherein they can take pride in making a contribution and doing things.
yeah, charity? Are the CEOs going to run an entire company by themselves?
Who am I quoting saying "give one half the country the day off for the CEOs, marketing analysts, buying negotiators, etc. Give the other half off to the cooks, dish cleaners, managers, food truck delivery drivers and see which country doesn't get their burgers that day" yeah I'd like to know also I suppose it'd be side of the country without the most "charity"?
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: imachavel]
#19384778 - 01/07/14 08:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why are you identifying with Downsies?
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
#19384811 - 01/07/14 08:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
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koods said: Oh, and just for comparison. The masterminds of the Bush administration started their term with the S&P at 1350, and when they left 8 years later, it was at 850. That a 37% loss over Bush's term, compared to a 100% gain during Obama's tenure. So... STFU about failed liberal policies.
Why don't you tell us about the NASDAQ. Which also cratered.
Liberal policies, i.e. lending money to shit bags, as implemented by Clinton and Cuomo led to the bank problems because the cunting shitbags didn't pay their mortgages. Neither liberal nor conservative policies had anything to do with bursting the tech bubble. It was tulips. I own't blame Clinton or the Congress for it
FIRST of all I don't give a SHIT about the NASDAQ. We have had this discussion. You question "moving money around" and then discuss productivity. I call shares and loans and insurance and financial services intangible trading, the assets are intangible, and personally I couldn't care less about the fucking NASDAQ. I find productivity in tangible assets, money to me is incidental in productivity despite everyone else's opinion.
Ok now that we have that out of the way, so who ruined it? Clinton? Obama? I don't give a shit. I already seed I disagree on Obama as a president and what a shit job he is doing 50 million times look at my sig. I don't like him, but if you are questioning that for a second I'll consider his failures somehow comparable to the Republicans succeeding, that'd be about as stupid as me saying because Nazi's failed then Muslims will succeed in contrast. I don't do contrasts. I don't give a shit about the right side or the left side guided by Obama who I believe to be a right winger in disguise. What I did say was "I agree with Obama on one aspect, a minimum wage raise." And I do, I think it's inconsequential in the long run, but in the short run people can live a little bit better. If you find it the equivalent raise in life quality comparable to giving a guy you meet at the bus stop a light for a cigarette and not much more, then I give you this quote:
"a few kind words can warm three winter months." So if a few kind dollars can warm a few years of winter economic recession then so be it to me raise it. At this point I want to see it raised just to talk and have proof and finally squash the opinions of people who say "wage raises hurt and raise prices." I can't IMAGINE prices being any higher. I mean Jesus fucking Christ 30 years ago a house that today is about 500k could have been as little as 50k. That's a lot of inflation, and MINIMUM wage has barely doubled in the last 30 years. And if you don't consider real estate prices going up inflation because the buyer sets the price then you just don't care about the damn definition of inflation. Inflation is inflation there is no text book capitalistic definition that says inflation is not inflation because of a buyer negotiation. Yeah....... right, nice try
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: imachavel]
#19384866 - 01/07/14 08:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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How kind of you to be so generous with other people's money. You are like the Mother Theresa of finance.
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DebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 6,457
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
#19384896 - 01/07/14 08:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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unless any of you have some kind of economic degree you all should really shut the fuck up.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: DebuteMachine]
#19384936 - 01/07/14 08:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DebuteMachine said: unless any of you have some kind of economic degree you all should really shut the fuck up.
I have an economic degree. It's called 30+ years of being in business. You can suck the teats of opt out pinheads in academia but I have learned to have nothing but scorn for them. The real world will give that to you.
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DebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 6,457
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
#19384953 - 01/07/14 08:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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resume or it didn't happen. yeah, i actually want you to be credible bro, not picking a fight.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: DebuteMachine]
#19385045 - 01/07/14 08:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DebuteMachine said: resume or it didn't happen. yeah, i actually want you to be credible bro, not picking a fight.
You got me. It's only been 29 years. 28 - 57.
I went to college and worked construction summers. I liked it and thought to myself that with my psychology degree it might be a good career since people will always need houses and it cannot be mechanized. Employees, no employees, management only, ninja roof cutter. An employee once asked me if I would do health insurance. I said OK but your going to have to take the pay cut for it, which was a good deal for him anyway since it was zero taxed income. He was worth what he was worth but I accommodated him. He took it for about 6 months and said fuckit. He was well paid, too, because he was pretty good. Rough but good.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: imachavel]
#19385409 - 01/07/14 10:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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imachavel said: And they are right. We don't need people telling other people who can pay what. After all, this is democracy, and freedom.
I was also thinking, based on that philosophy, I don't really think we need police either. I mean after all democracy is about freedom. Think about all the freedom that laws displace, you know police and the federal government controlling the military upset a natural balance. In a free world, authority would be decided by the majority of people, the crowd. A large crowd of 100 or more would decide how to tell who is stealing, what should be done to them, what life thieves and violent people should have etc. Who are the police to interrupt true freedom? The police are like the minimum wage, it creates a false idea that people can't function or behave on their own without court and law etc.
Should we have bail outs and minimum wage and jail and police? HELL NO I can't believe I didn't understand until now
rules and laws hurt freedom I mean the sooner we get rid of minimum wage the sooner people start seeing what freedom actually is and we can get rid of the police as well. If only I took more economic classes, I'd get all this supply and demand stuff already. Just like police, there isn't enough "demand" for them just constant supply and the court system is hurting the free market
Dude, that's like... so wrong! GTFO of here with your uncaring economic policies. I say we raise the minimum wage to $100 an hour, that everyone could be rich and no one would be left unprovided for or exploited by the meanie corporations... oh wait.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
#19385449 - 01/07/14 10:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
DebuteMachine said: unless any of you have some kind of economic degree you all should really shut the fuck up.
I have an economic degree. It's called 30+ years of being in business. You can suck the teats of opt out pinheads in academia but I have learned to have nothing but scorn for them. The real world will give that to you.
Just fyi, the things you learn in economics and business classes are totally different material.
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fapjack
Title



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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: Crystal G]
#19386134 - 01/08/14 12:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What about all the shitty workers that aren't even worth minimum wage, what should they get paid?
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teamkiller
ghetto drama whore



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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: fapjack]
#19386236 - 01/08/14 01:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fapjack said: What about all the shitty workers that aren't even worth minimum wage, what should they get paid?
the blood of the rich.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: fapjack]
#19386247 - 01/08/14 01:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fapjack said: What about all the shitty workers that aren't even worth minimum wage, what should they get paid?
Who honestly isn't worth minimum wage? And for doing what job?
Yea, maybe if they have some stupid job where all they have to do is sleep and play video games, they shouldn't even get paid minimum wage. But to my knowledge no such job exists.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: DebuteMachine]
#19386471 - 01/08/14 03:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DebuteMachine said: unless any of you have some kind of economic degree you all should really shut the fuck up.
I couldn't give a shit less about an "economic degree." What does that signify to me? That you need to "read" what happens around you to understand it? Capitalism and interest rates and financing and taxes and the fed etc.? I don't revolve around an idea that the stock market has any god damn thing to do with business or that one company needs to be a billion dollar company for the country to succeed or whatever. Sure it the larger a company is, the more easily we live in the industrial age, where things are manufactured quickly and easily and everyone can enjoy them.
But confusing that "one company needs to do it all" with "one company is needed for everyone else to succeed" is just ridiculous. The fact is I'm not arguing wage caps or federal financing or global supply and demand why China produces the cheapest goods etc. Of course China produces the cheapest goods. But if you are going to tell me that you need to pay people $1 an hour to have extremely cheap production and otherwise jobs are outsourced well the argument doesn't begin with me there are a lot of people out there that will argue with you over what a stupid way of thinking it is to believe that idea.
As I've said, if the minimum wage is $13 an hour and I start a business and need to hire 4 people right away full time yes I'm paying each one a high rate when a guy might show up and not even be productive and I've spent a lot of money on him already. But we aren't arguing $13 an hour we are arguing $10 or to me a raise to $8 is acceptable even. And as I've said broke idiots don't start businesses otherwise everyone would own one. Let's say I started fermenting wine in carboys and turned it into a business. I get a liquor license and start selling it and make decent money and now want to hire help to make more wine. I hire a guy probably to come in Monday and Friday 4 hours on Monday and 4 hours on Friday, and at this rate I'm paying a guy part time 8 hours a week let's say the M W was $10 an hour then I pay him $80 for the week.
Now in all scenarios I can think of where I would complain about this, then I can also justify that I shouldn't be in business. I would find the greatest challenge my business would have would seriously be #1 sales experience and competition with other wine companies. The cost of owning a lot and paying a lease the people I'd have to compete with marketing my wine and getting the word out to as many people to buy from me instead of going to the store or to a restaurant or even trying to sell to a restaurant etc. Now if I can't afford $80 a week, should I be in business? I mean in business you often need to sell WAY PAST $80 a week at least last I heard you should be competent to own a business, I don't think business people get relaxed on a leased rent any more then a person who works all day gets relaxed on his rent as a tenant where he lives.
So if a) I wanted to hire more people for longer time like 4 people at 40 hours a week, one more time I feel the real question should be asked "do I need 4 people, is it 100% necessary, and if I don't have the necessary means to pay each one the full wage 40 hours should I be hiring them?" So to me a persons business competence comes into question: "how much wine is this person selling? Is he selling $100 a week? $1000 a week? $10,000 a week?"
now without going into any other scenarios I once again have to ask: as much as it's not justified for some people to say "why pay the guy $80 a day instead of $40 a day" and all types of "$80 a day for 4 people, who can afford that?" Well the truth is toddlers don't start businesses. It is hard to afford. Is running a restaurant hard to afford? You are damn right, a restaurant can cost 10k a month just in utilities. You think capitalism is fair? You think minimum wage is the greatest issue? Do I now need an economics degree to argue this with you that capitalism is about "capitalizing"? There are a lot of unfair things a person will need to question before getting involved in a business once again I don't remember the last time I heard about 5 year olds starting businesses.
Now on that note, to say that the NATIONAL MW should be $12 an hour is a little ridiculous. $96 a day MINIMUM to me a little high some people don't make $600 a day but do in fact need to hire some help. But to me $8 an hour is absolutely fair, that is only $64 a day, barely livable, and in truth if people question how much that is to pay someone then perhaps the question should be in the cost of living these days, not in the wage needed to meet inflation. I agree $64 a day per person is very expensive, but then so is fucking everything you have to pay for, insurance, rent, etc. yes you can argue not to live in the city if you can't afford rent. Good luck finding 1% of possible employment opportunities in Kansas versus NYC with about 5000% of employment opportunities in Kansas.
And there is no relevance what so ever that expensive living costs are now linked to MINIMUM WAGE, absolutely not, considering that living costs are now pretty much the same everywhere I've been as in 2007, before the M W went up from $5.
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
#19386472 - 01/08/14 03:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
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DebuteMachine said: unless any of you have some kind of economic degree you all should really shut the fuck up.
I have an economic degree. It's called 30+ years of being in business. You can suck the teats of opt out pinheads in academia but I have learned to have nothing but scorn for them. The real world will give that to you.
thank you. Actually not sarcastically. Thank you for that
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
#19386485 - 01/08/14 03:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
DebuteMachine said: resume or it didn't happen. yeah, i actually want you to be credible bro, not picking a fight.
You got me. It's only been 29 years. 28 - 57.
I went to college and worked construction summers. I liked it and thought to myself that with my psychology degree it might be a good career since people will always need houses and it cannot be mechanized. Employees, no employees, management only, ninja roof cutter. An employee once asked me if I would do health insurance. I said OK but your going to have to take the pay cut for it, which was a good deal for him anyway since it was zero taxed income. He was worth what he was worth but I accommodated him. He took it for about 6 months and said fuckit. He was well paid, too, because he was pretty good. Rough but good.
so why don't you explain to me how you can afford to pay each person who works for you minimum NY $17 an hour? I am just stumped you are against a raise from $7 to $9. If I wanted to go paint a house and had to pay a guy to help me more then $100 each day for the help I feel I'd be in big trouble. It would also SUCK if he didn't do a damn thing and I still owed him but then again I could fire him day #1 if he wasn't doing shit. But now you owe the guy $17 for the day? And you are arguing going from $7 to $9? Well how the hell can you afford fucking $17? I keep feeling like people are arguing inconsistent nothings to bitch about minimum wage so much compared to all the other bureaucratic crap that this country has turned into all the retarded regulations created by banking jew lobbyists that have turned running a basic business in basic costs into an insane price war only the super rich can afford.
I find minimum wage to be the least of the problem right now. But considering that Obama wants it raised and yet doesn't want to tackle the expensive cost of daily living in the United States all the stupid regulations he has passed Obama Care(which isn't free you have to pay) and shit etc. is just crazy. Are we really arguing $9 an hour here? Or are we arguing that it costs $9 an hour in this country now just to do basic things keep up with rent afford to live well enough to be healthy enough on a basic level etc.
What do you expect from a president who approves something as retarded as Obama Care? That right there is going to put more people out of business then the stupid minimum wage and at the same time is the reason it's so expensive to live day by day anyway.
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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