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OfflineShiVersblood
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Registered: 08/18/07
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: imachavel]
    #19383511 - 01/07/14 04:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My boss is a dick he wouldnt listen to negotiation so that wouldn't work. Im pretty sure he would decrease the pay not raise it, if minnimum wage was abolished by the republicans.


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Onlineimachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: ShiVersblood]
    #19383584 - 01/07/14 04:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yeah I have been sort of being sarcastic in this thread in case no one has picked up on that :smirk:

I have seen no evidence that removing the minimum wage wouldn't turn our country into a pile of horse shit like Somalia. That free market bullshit doesn't apply to a country with a government that sets interest rates, subsidizes, allows lobbying etc.

If I saw proof it would work, I'd be for throwing away the minimum wage. But honestly aside from some bullshit philosophy a few people have been throwing around showing me some instance in where negotiating wages leads to high pay, I'd have to be deaf, dumb, on crack and dying of a disease to believe for two fucking seconds that getting rid of a minimum wage would make a free America.

Likewise is the argument about getting rid of police and law and court and letting "free authority" allow people to determine what is right and wrong that people will naturally be kind but at the same time firm and neighbourhoods will be made by families again that trust in safety etc. Well we know that won't work for shit :lolwut: so what in the world makes anyone think a "free market" without "minimum wage" would work? Just retarded theoretical philosophy that would work in Narnia?

Well where is Narnia again? In my closet? I want to move there and live in this land where people can negotiate a good living in this country and minimum wage is 100% un necessary. Could you imagine if this was introduced to congress? How many people would just die laughing? :laugh2:


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlinekoods
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: ShiVersblood]
    #19383587 - 01/07/14 04:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ShiVersblood said:
My boss is a dick he wouldnt listen to negotiation so that wouldn't work. Im pretty sure he would decrease the pay not raise it, if minnimum wage was abolished by the republicans.




But then you could just quit your job, because it's a free market and your price per hour is the only thing important to you.

Oh, another property of a free market is that transactions are transparent. You have to know what people are paying and for what. When have you not been told that your salary is not to be discussed?


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NotSheekle said
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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: koods]
    #19383619 - 01/07/14 04:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Well where is Narnia again? In my closet? I want to move there and live in this land where people can negotiate a good living in this country and minimum wage is 100% un necessary.





hahaha lol.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: koods] * 1
    #19383812 - 01/07/14 05:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Free market principles do not apply to labor. One of the requirements of a free market is that participants are free to enter and leave the market without restriction and that the price is only consideration. If your only concern in employment was your wage, and you could take it or leave it, then labor would be subject to normal supply/demand forces. However, people need to work and wage often takes a backseat to other considerations. The mere fact that healthcare is so tied to employment completely skews the labor market. Instead of being free to leave the labor pool or negotiate higher wages, people are often chained to their current job due to health concerns.




You are free to leave any job.  You are free to abandon the conventional work force entirely and live a hunter gatherer existence.  Why should anybody else be on the hook for your health concerns, your shelter concerns, your food concerns, any of your concerns?  Make your own way if you don't like the deal.  Make your own company.  Sell your own goods.  You are not chained to being a drone unless you are a talentless unimaginative hack with no skill.  Be a commissioned salesperson.  Be a contractor.  Stop fucking whining.

Less than 3% of American workers make minimum wage.  Raising is supposed to do what, exactly?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/dec/08/rob-portman/rob-portman-says-about-2-percent-americans-get-pai/


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: koods]
    #19383817 - 01/07/14 05:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

ShiVersblood said:
My boss is a dick he wouldnt listen to negotiation so that wouldn't work. Im pretty sure he would decrease the pay not raise it, if minnimum wage was abolished by the republicans.




But then you could just quit your job, because it's a free market and your price per hour is the only thing important to you.

Oh, another property of a free market is that transactions are transparent. You have to know what people are paying and for what. When have you not been told that your salary is not to be discussed?



Anybody else's wage is none of your fucking business.


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Invisiblememes
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Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19383893 - 01/07/14 05:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:notsureif:


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19383905 - 01/07/14 05:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You are free to abandon the conventional work force entirely and live a hunter gatherer existence.




No you can't, where are you going to live?  You need to pay taxes to own land and you need to own land to be a hunter gatherer.


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OfflineShiVersblood
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Registered: 08/18/07
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19383926 - 01/07/14 05:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So u want all poor people to become hunter gather people? Uhhh...... Wtf....


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: fapjack]
    #19383979 - 01/07/14 05:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
You are free to abandon the conventional work force entirely and live a hunter gatherer existence.




No you can't, where are you going to live?  You need to pay taxes to own land and you need to own land to be a hunter gatherer.




Yes you can.  Go to Alaska.  Why did you chop my post?  It wasn't that long.  That was just one of the alternatives I offered.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: ShiVersblood]
    #19383986 - 01/07/14 05:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ShiVersblood said:
So u want all poor people to become hunter gather people? Uhhh...... Wtf....





No.  I want whiners to stop whining that they are trapped on the wheel.  Unimaginative, talentless and lazy hacks.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: ShiVersblood]
    #19383999 - 01/07/14 05:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

To all of you advocating that minimum salary shouldn't exist;

We are not in the 1940s anymore, you should grab a couple of history books to catch up and get up with the times.

Truth is, people are much better off now than when there was no minimum salary. We have human rights now, laws that prevents abuse, regulations to prevent extreme variations in the market, hell women have the right to vote!

Quit bitching that the minimum salary hurts employment and whatnot. It's been around the world for several decades and people still managed to jobs, businesses survived, some thrived and billionaires were even made.

All you need is to bring your train of thoughts to the reality of today instead of dreaming of the misery that was yesterday


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: Patlal]
    #19384032 - 01/07/14 05:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
To all of you advocating that minimum salary shouldn't exist;

We are not in the 1940s anymore, you should grab a couple of history books to catch up and get up with the times.

Truth is, people are much better off now than when there was no minimum salary. We have human rights now, laws that prevents abuse, regulations to prevent extreme variations in the market, hell women have the right to vote!


  Are you saying that we have those things because we have a minimum wage?
Quote:



Quit bitching that the minimum salary hurts employment and whatnot. It's been around the world for several decades and people still managed to jobs, businesses survived, some thrived and billionaires were even made.




Business doesn't really care.  If labor costs for everybody go up the industries that can more easily eliminate labor will.
Quote:



All you need is to bring your train of thoughts to the reality of today instead of dreaming of the misery that was yesterday




Almost nobody makes minimum wage


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Offlinekoods
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19384072 - 01/07/14 05:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

You are free to leave any job.  You are free to abandon the conventional work force entirely and live a hunter gatherer existence.  Why should anybody else be on the hook for your health concerns, your shelter concerns, your food concerns, any of your concerns?  Make your own way if you don't like the deal.  Make your own company.  Sell your own goods.  You are not chained to being a drone unless you are a talentless unimaginative hack with no skill.  Be a commissioned salesperson.  Be a contractor.  Stop fucking whining.



You can do any of those things. It doesn't change the fact that labor is not a "free" market. Real people can't just refuse to take a job because the employer doesn't meet their price for their labor.

Why don't you stop whining. Stop complaining that your theoretical freedom to negotiate your wage as you please is being infringed. It never existed in the first place, and a minimum wage isn't going to affect your value as a skilled worker anyhow. Maybe there will be increased costs passed on to consumers. If so it would be minimal, and worth having a society where people can live off their 40 hour a week job. Fucking selfish, Ayn Rand-style sociopathy is all we hear from you.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: koods]
    #19384089 - 01/07/14 05:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Also, if you want cheap labor, you go to china. As long as there a large portion of the population that can be exploited, prices will stay low enough for the rest of the population.


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OfflineShiVersblood
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Registered: 08/18/07
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19384135 - 01/07/14 06:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What do you mean no one makes minimal wage? I only make minimal wage god damnit


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Offlinekoods
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: Patlal]
    #19384147 - 01/07/14 06:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Also, if you want cheap labor, you go to china. As long as there a large portion of the population that can be exploited, prices will stay low enough for the rest of the population.




This is a good point. lower wages ripple throughout the workforce.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19384158 - 01/07/14 06:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

ShiVersblood said:
So u want all poor people to become hunter gather people? Uhhh...... Wtf....




No.  I want whiners to stop whining that they are trapped on the wheel.  Unimaginative, talentless and lazy hacks.




What if somebody is mentally handicapped and has like Down's Syndrome or something? The entire reason they are given work and can afford living expenses is because of non-discrimination laws and minimum wage.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: koods]
    #19384186 - 01/07/14 06:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

You are free to leave any job.  You are free to abandon the conventional work force entirely and live a hunter gatherer existence.  Why should anybody else be on the hook for your health concerns, your shelter concerns, your food concerns, any of your concerns?  Make your own way if you don't like the deal.  Make your own company.  Sell your own goods.  You are not chained to being a drone unless you are a talentless unimaginative hack with no skill.  Be a commissioned salesperson.  Be a contractor.  Stop fucking whining.



You can do any of those things. It doesn't change the fact that labor is not a "free" market.




If you can do those things you are free to exploit your labor.
Quote:

Real people can't just refuse to take a job because the employer doesn't meet their price for their labor.




Real People?  Really?  Less than 3%.  I see Real People working for themselves all the time.  Hundreds and hundreds of them.

In what way is an employer required to meet the employees demands.  Do you know what I did with employees who wanted things I wasn't willing to give?  Allowed them to quit and go work for my competition.  Some of them did.  Bye.
Quote:



Why don't you stop whining. Stop complaining that your theoretical freedom to negotiate your wage as you please is being infringed. It never existed in the first place, and a minimum wage isn't going to affect your value as a skilled worker anyhow. Maybe there will be increased costs passed on to consumers. If so it would be minimal, and worth having a society where people can live off their 40 hour a week job. Fucking selfish, Ayn Rand-style sociopathy is all we hear from you.




Less that 3% of the population makes minimum wage.  In some cheap industries that make shit with talentless drones who can only make minimum wage the prices will go up for the crap that poor people buy.  Unless they can buy machines to do it for less.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: You know people are saying we don't need a minimum wage because it hurts freedom in the market [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #19384198 - 01/07/14 06:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Less that 3% of the population makes minimum wage.  In some cheap industries that make shit with talentless drones who can only make minimum wage the prices will go up for the crap that poor people buy.  Unless they can buy machines to do it for less.




Did you ever consider that the reason people make more than minimum wage, is because minimum wage sets the standard and the precedent for what would compel companies to offer a higher and more appealable wage?


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