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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Hegel. Tell me about him
    #19384082 - 01/07/14 05:57 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

CrystalG mentioned his writings as almost incomprehensible except to grad philosophy students.  I respect CrystalG's intellect.  I have never read Hegel and so I googled him and got a bunch of criticism and synopses.  He seems to be a big Flying Spaghetti Monster guy.  Anybody familiar with his oeuvre before I have to actually try to slog through his shit?


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Hegel. Tell me about him [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19384181 - 01/07/14 06:19 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

The only thing I can remember is that he developed the dialectic which Marx adapted.

    First you have the thesis. Then you have its opposite or its opposition, the antithesis. The dialectical dynamic arising from this clash produces the 3rd form, the synthesis.

    While Hegel used the dialectic to explain the development of ideas, Marx used it to explain the progressive stages of modes of production. Feudalism clashed with the new industrialists, and for the latter, to take advantage they created the industrial working class. In turn, these proletariats clashed with the capitalists, which Marx believed would lead to socialism, then it's more perfect form, communism.

    I don't remember examples of the Hegelian dialectic on ideas. My philosophy class centered on the classics, and my latter history and social sciences just brought in Hegel as a brief intro to the beginnings of Marxian thinking. Probably what you already know.


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"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Hegel. Tell me about him [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19384270 - 01/07/14 06:34 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

First of all, Hegel was an idealist, meaning he believed reality was fundamentally mental, composed of ideas and concepts. He viewed all of humanity as being of one collective mind he called "geist," or "spirit." He was also a rationalist, which is to say that he thought reality could be understood entirely through logic, without reference to the evidence of the senses.

He focused largely on philosophy of history, and probably his most famous idea is that of the "dialectic." According to dialectical theory, every idea, theory, and advancement of civilization has three components: the thesis, antithesis, and synthesis (those were actually Kant's terms, Hegel called it 'Abstract,' 'negative,' and 'concrete,' but the principle is the same). One example he gives is a dialectical description of existence: first, we define existence as pure Being, which is the thesis in the dialectic of existence. However, upon closer examination, we can see that pure being, without any particular defining features, is indistinguishable from nothingness, which is considered the opposite of being. So Being is the thesis, and Nothing is the antithesis. The tension between these two is resolved in the middle ground of becoming, which Hegel says is what existence is. It's essentially dynamic, fluid, and changing.

Hegel said that the Geist, or Mind/Spirit of which we are all a part, is constantly advancing towards some theoretical point of perfection in a dialectical fashion. Obviously there is a hell of a lot more to his philosophy but that's the basic rundown of some of his more well-known ideas.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Hegel. Tell me about him [Re: NetDiver]
    #19384462 - 01/07/14 07:08 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

That's a freaked out sig you got goin there dude. :psychsplit:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Hegel. Tell me about him [Re: Icelander]
    #19384533 - 01/07/14 07:22 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Wha? I deleted my sig weeks ago. Are you seeing something there? :eek:

Perhaps it is your imagination playing tricks on you...  :god:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Hegel. Tell me about him [Re: NetDiver]
    #19384565 - 01/07/14 07:28 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Yeah that's it. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Hegel. Tell me about him [Re: NetDiver]
    #19385234 - 01/07/14 09:33 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

yep your sig is there and it's creepy and so is you not knowing about it ... :uhoh:

nice rundown tho

@zappa i remember my tutor in first year said he did his masters on hegel and a he only managed to understand what he was on about at the very end of his masters..

he also gave us the sagely advice to read all the intro stuff and commentary before tackling the actual work.

further facts:

zizek likes hegel a lot and zizek is cool
hegel seems more historically and socially oriented than pthers
hegel rhymes with bagel.. or kegel


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Hegel. Tell me about him [Re: NetDiver]
    #19393440 - 01/09/14 12:09 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
First of all, Hegel was an idealist, meaning he believed reality was fundamentally mental, composed of ideas and concepts. He viewed all of humanity as being of one collective mind he called "geist," or "spirit." He was also a rationalist, which is to say that he thought reality could be understood entirely through logic, without reference to the evidence of the senses.

He focused largely on philosophy of history, and probably his most famous idea is that of the "dialectic." According to dialectical theory, every idea, theory, and advancement of civilization has three components: the thesis, antithesis, and synthesis (those were actually Kant's terms, Hegel called it 'Abstract,' 'negative,' and 'concrete,' but the principle is the same). One example he gives is a dialectical description of existence: first, we define existence as pure Being, which is the thesis in the dialectic of existence. However, upon closer examination, we can see that pure being, without any particular defining features, is indistinguishable from nothingness, which is considered the opposite of being. So Being is the thesis, and Nothing is the antithesis. The tension between these two is resolved in the middle ground of becoming, which Hegel says is what existence is. It's essentially dynamic, fluid, and changing.

Hegel said that the Geist, or Mind/Spirit of which we are all a part, is constantly advancing towards some theoretical point of perfection in a dialectical fashion. Obviously there is a hell of a lot more to his philosophy but that's the basic rundown of some of his more well-known ideas.




A darn good synopsis of Hegel! :awesomenod:  I would only add that Becoming, in the form of history, is the life of Being unfolding as space-time.


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InvisibleEchro
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Re: Hegel. Tell me about him [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #19394563 - 01/09/14 04:46 PM (10 years, 21 days ago)

I don't know a lot about him, outside of Marx & Stirner being students of his. Marx wrote in a Hegelian style I believe, & The Ego & His Own is written in a Hegelian style too from what I understand. According to this theory, The Ego is a criticism of Hegelianism.


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"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Hegel. Tell me about him [Re: Echro]
    #19424483 - 01/15/14 07:41 PM (10 years, 15 days ago)

Not familiar with Stirner, and long past any deep study of Hegel. Back in the day I sought thinkers whose ideas would influence me and contribute to my personal development, and I wasn't in a particularly rigorous university philosophy department, although there were some brilliant and a couple of now famous people there (Bob Brier, D.G. Leahy). I read Marx's early papers once, including theological papers (believe it or not). He was in direct opposition to Hegel. My on-line dictionary has a pretty good synopsis:

Marx presented his own materialist philosophy as an alternative to Hegel's idealism....The concept of dialectical materialism emerges from statements by Marx in the preface to his magnum opus, Capital. There Marx says he intends to use Hegelian dialectics but in revised form. He defends Hegel against those who view him as a "dead dog" and then says, "I openly avowed myself as the pupil of that mighty thinker [Hegel]." Marx credits Hegel with "being the first to present its [dialectic's] form of working in a comprehensive and conscious manner". But he then criticizes Hegel for turning dialectics upside down: "With him it is standing on its head. It must be turned right side up again, if you would discover the rational kernel within the mystical shell." Marx's criticism of Hegel asserts that Hegel's dialectics go astray by dealing with ideas, with the human mind. Hegel's dialectic, Marx says, inappropriately concerns "the process of the human brain"; it focuses on ideas. Hegel's thought is in fact sometimes called "dialectical idealism," a misleading term that would be more descriptive if changed to "dialectical ideaism" (spelled without the l). Marx believed that dialectics should deal not with the mental world of ideas but with "the material world," the world of production and other economic activity.

I always avoided the worldly and political philosophies. Marxist Socialism hasn't worked historically, and human fulfillment is not about 'the means of production.' :shrug:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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