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Offlinepouihi
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Coprinopsis romagnesiana?
    #19382428 - 01/07/14 01:22 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

I'm thinking C. romagnesiana because it reminds me the ones I found last year on a nearby lawn, although the scales on the ones I found seemed a bit different (these also appear to have a way more striate margin on the cap) I think maybe these are even more similar to the photos available when you google it.
I didn't have my camera so the photos on the spot aren't so great:













These are the ones I found last year:



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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
    #19382580 - 01/07/14 01:52 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

I would suggest C. atramentaria for your new find, but it is hard to tell for sure.

A microscope would help you a lot here. :smile:


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Anglerfish]
    #19382704 - 01/07/14 02:16 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

I'm working on getting one of those toys :tongue2:

Does C. atramentaria have scales on the cap?

According to mushroom expert, "Coprinopsis romagnesiana is, more or less, a scaly version of the well known inky cap Coprinopsis atramentaria"

These have some golden brown scales on the top of the cap.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
    #19382795 - 01/07/14 02:32 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

pouihi said:
I'm working on getting one of those toys :tongue2:

Does C. atramentaria have scales on the cap?

According to mushroom expert, "Coprinopsis romagnesiana is, more or less, a scaly version of the well known inky cap Coprinopsis atramentaria"

These have some golden brown scales on the top of the cap.




Mushroomexpert on the cap of C. atramentaria:

"lead gray, grayish, or gray-brown; fairly smooth, but usually finely scaly to slightly scruffy over the center; faintly grooved/lined."

That kind of marks the main difference between your recent and previous find imo.

C. romagnesiana doesn't occur where I'm at (as far as I know), and I rarely pay much
attention to C. atramentaria or the other common coprinoids for that matter (typically
I spot them when not in hold of my camera, and returning later is almost always too
late anyway).

However what I find on the net pictured as C. romagnesiana seems usually to be more
consistently scaled, like your old find, and unlike your new find.

Then again, I feel internet pictures/identifications aren't always to be trusted.

I would imagine some collections of C. atramentaria could be more abundantly
scaled than others and vice versa with C. romagnesiana.

:squid:


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Anglerfish]
    #19382853 - 01/07/14 02:40 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

:takingnotes:

That is true, although they are (macroscopically) almost identical on the stem/gills the scales on the cap are very distinct plus there's the striation on the cap margin which it didn't have on the previous.


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InvisibleByrain

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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
    #19382941 - 01/07/14 02:52 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

I think it could go either way, Coprinopsis atramentaria can be scaly on the cap apex while C. romagnesiana is scaly all over the cap.  This seems more scaly than I am used to for C. atramentaria, but maybe not enough for C. romagnesiana. :shrug:


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Invisibledomesticgnome

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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Byrain]
    #19383167 - 01/07/14 03:32 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

My opinion really shouldn't count, as I don't know jack about coprinoids. I just think these are awesome looking, so I'll comment.

I don't really think theylook like C, atramentaria. But likely all my Coprinoid ID's have been dead wrong.

Good post


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: domesticgnome]
    #19383632 - 01/07/14 04:47 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

:tongue2: thanks! That's the difference a microscope would do, I definitely gotta get myself a decent one.


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InvisibleByrain

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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
    #19383663 - 01/07/14 04:51 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Actually not a big difference in this case...

Quote:


    1. Pileus c. 20-30 mm high, ochraceous, almost smooth; spore breadth 4.5-5.2 µm: C. acuminatus
    1. Pileus usually larger, orange-brown, grey-brown or grey; spore breadth 5-6 µm
    2. Pileus grey-brown or grey, veil scarce, adpressed, only at centre: C. atramentarius
    2. Pileus orange-brown, veil more abundant, squamulose, often with reflexed tips: C. romagnesianus



http://www.grzyby.pl/coprinus-site-Kees-Uljee/species/Coprinus.htm#H2


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Byrain]
    #19383935 - 01/07/14 05:33 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

I thought I'd seen some differences on mushroom expert but apparently it's mostly in sizes, which given my inexperience in microscopy, I don't really know if it's enough :shrug:


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InvisibleByrain

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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
    #19384265 - 01/07/14 06:34 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

There are some differences in spore sizes, but there seems to be a lot of overlap too making that not too useful.


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OfflineFungi01
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Byrain]
    #19385019 - 01/07/14 08:53 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

its C. atramentaria.  C. romagnesiana has a very scaly stem.


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Fungi01]
    #19386288 - 01/08/14 01:44 AM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Stem or Cap? :confused: the ones I found last year didn't have a very scaly stem


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
    #19386588 - 01/08/14 05:50 AM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

pouihi said:
Stem or Cap? :confused: the ones I found last year didn't have a very scaly stem




Comparing images on MO it seems like where C. romagnesiana has a scaly lower half
of the stem, C. atramentaria merely has a fibrillose lower half of the stem.


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Anglerfish]
    #19386811 - 01/08/14 08:00 AM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Mine din't have such a scaly stalk, they actually had one similar to these I found yesterday.
I might find them again this year though, last year they fruited from January to April but I've found a deliquescent patch n the exact same spot last December, then I can take a better look at them.


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Edited by pouihi (01/08/14 08:44 AM)


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InvisibleByrain

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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
    #19387024 - 01/08/14 09:22 AM (10 years, 23 days ago)

From the descriptions.

Coprinopsis romagnesiana
From Uljé's site

"Stipe 60-100 x 5-13 mm, white but brown squamulose above clavate, often slightly marginate base"

C. atramentaria

"Stipe 70-150 x 8-15 mm, white; base clavate or globose, often slightly marginate."

The illustrations in FAN6 only show C. romagnesiana slightly scaly below the annular zone, much like your photos here. :shrug:


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