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pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Coprinopsis romagnesiana?
#19382428 - 01/07/14 01:22 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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I'm thinking C. romagnesiana because it reminds me the ones I found last year on a nearby lawn, although the scales on the ones I found seemed a bit different (these also appear to have a way more striate margin on the cap) I think maybe these are even more similar to the photos available when you google it. I didn't have my camera so the photos on the spot aren't so great:






These are the ones I found last year:
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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
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Anglerfish
hearing things



Registered: 09/08/10
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
#19382580 - 01/07/14 01:52 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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I would suggest C. atramentaria for your new find, but it is hard to tell for sure.
A microscope would help you a lot here.
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pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Anglerfish]
#19382704 - 01/07/14 02:16 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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I'm working on getting one of those toys 
Does C. atramentaria have scales on the cap?
According to mushroom expert, "Coprinopsis romagnesiana is, more or less, a scaly version of the well known inky cap Coprinopsis atramentaria"
These have some golden brown scales on the top of the cap.
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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
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Anglerfish
hearing things



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Posts: 18,644
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
#19382795 - 01/07/14 02:32 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
pouihi said: I'm working on getting one of those toys 
Does C. atramentaria have scales on the cap?
According to mushroom expert, "Coprinopsis romagnesiana is, more or less, a scaly version of the well known inky cap Coprinopsis atramentaria"
These have some golden brown scales on the top of the cap.
Mushroomexpert on the cap of C. atramentaria:
"lead gray, grayish, or gray-brown; fairly smooth, but usually finely scaly to slightly scruffy over the center; faintly grooved/lined."
That kind of marks the main difference between your recent and previous find imo.
C. romagnesiana doesn't occur where I'm at (as far as I know), and I rarely pay much attention to C. atramentaria or the other common coprinoids for that matter (typically I spot them when not in hold of my camera, and returning later is almost always too late anyway).
However what I find on the net pictured as C. romagnesiana seems usually to be more consistently scaled, like your old find, and unlike your new find.
Then again, I feel internet pictures/identifications aren't always to be trusted.
I would imagine some collections of C. atramentaria could be more abundantly scaled than others and vice versa with C. romagnesiana.
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pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Anglerfish]
#19382853 - 01/07/14 02:40 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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That is true, although they are (macroscopically) almost identical on the stem/gills the scales on the cap are very distinct plus there's the striation on the cap margin which it didn't have on the previous.
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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
#19382941 - 01/07/14 02:52 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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I think it could go either way, Coprinopsis atramentaria can be scaly on the cap apex while C. romagnesiana is scaly all over the cap. This seems more scaly than I am used to for C. atramentaria, but maybe not enough for C. romagnesiana.
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domesticgnome

Registered: 04/22/11
Posts: 3,079
Loc: For me to know and you to find...
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Byrain]
#19383167 - 01/07/14 03:32 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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My opinion really shouldn't count, as I don't know jack about coprinoids. I just think these are awesome looking, so I'll comment.
I don't really think theylook like C, atramentaria. But likely all my Coprinoid ID's have been dead wrong.
Good post
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pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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thanks! That's the difference a microscope would do, I definitely gotta get myself a decent one.
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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
#19383663 - 01/07/14 04:51 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Actually not a big difference in this case...
Quote:
1. Pileus c. 20-30 mm high, ochraceous, almost smooth; spore breadth 4.5-5.2 µm: C. acuminatus 1. Pileus usually larger, orange-brown, grey-brown or grey; spore breadth 5-6 µm 2. Pileus grey-brown or grey, veil scarce, adpressed, only at centre: C. atramentarius 2. Pileus orange-brown, veil more abundant, squamulose, often with reflexed tips: C. romagnesianus
http://www.grzyby.pl/coprinus-site-Kees-Uljee/species/Coprinus.htm#H2
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pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Byrain]
#19383935 - 01/07/14 05:33 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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I thought I'd seen some differences on mushroom expert but apparently it's mostly in sizes, which given my inexperience in microscopy, I don't really know if it's enough
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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
#19384265 - 01/07/14 06:34 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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There are some differences in spore sizes, but there seems to be a lot of overlap too making that not too useful.
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Fungi01
John Plischke



Registered: 06/29/08
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Byrain]
#19385019 - 01/07/14 08:53 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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its C. atramentaria. C. romagnesiana has a very scaly stem.
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pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Fungi01]
#19386288 - 01/08/14 01:44 AM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Stem or Cap? the ones I found last year didn't have a very scaly stem
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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
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Anglerfish
hearing things



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 18,644
Loc: Norvegr
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
#19386588 - 01/08/14 05:50 AM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
pouihi said: Stem or Cap? the ones I found last year didn't have a very scaly stem
Comparing images on MO it seems like where C. romagnesiana has a scaly lower half of the stem, C. atramentaria merely has a fibrillose lower half of the stem.
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pouihi
Mary Jane Doe



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 2,384
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: Anglerfish]
#19386811 - 01/08/14 08:00 AM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Mine din't have such a scaly stalk, they actually had one similar to these I found yesterday. I might find them again this year though, last year they fruited from January to April but I've found a deliquescent patch n the exact same spot last December, then I can take a better look at them.
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"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."
Edited by pouihi (01/08/14 08:44 AM)
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Byrain

Registered: 01/07/10
Posts: 9,664
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Re: Coprinopsis romagnesiana? [Re: pouihi]
#19387024 - 01/08/14 09:22 AM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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From the descriptions.
Coprinopsis romagnesiana From Uljé's site
"Stipe 60-100 x 5-13 mm, white but brown squamulose above clavate, often slightly marginate base"
C. atramentaria
"Stipe 70-150 x 8-15 mm, white; base clavate or globose, often slightly marginate."
The illustrations in FAN6 only show C. romagnesiana slightly scaly below the annular zone, much like your photos here.
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