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AEL1911
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Registered: 09/27/13
Posts: 342
Loc: Japan
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Gymnopilus slow grain colonization
#19380933 - 01/07/14 04:44 AM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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**Spawned to pasteurized supplemented wood based substrate and failed with contamination on Jan 18th 2014** In case you didn't read carefully this isn't about cubensis.
My grain spawn jar is taking a long time to colonize. I'll tell you what I've done so far.
I measured about 160ml of dry WBS (mainly millet and canary seed with hulls) and rinsed. I then put in a pint jar, added almost a teaspoon of gypsum and soaked for 17 hours. After the soak I rinsed the WBS. (probably most of the gypsum off as well ) I then boiled the WBS for 30 minutes. I noticed the WBS had swollen up and I reduced the amount that I put in the jar to keep the 160ml measurement. Afterwards I drained the WBS and let it dry off. After I figured the WBS was dry enough I loaded it into the jar again, put 2 layers of tyvek as a filter(from coveralls) on top of a lid with four 2mm holes and P.Ced for an hour @ 9.42psi.
I let the jars cool overnight. Upon removing from the pressure cooker I noticed the WBS was clumped together in a big mass. I had to vigorously shake the jar to get the kernels to seperate.
On Dec 11th I made a spore syringe from my wild gym print and injected 2.5cc into one hole. The spore print is from one of the fruits from this post http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19034155 I then put masking tape over the hole I made with the syringe through the 2 layers of tyvek.
I incubated the jar in a 3.4 liter box which had a lid on it. The boxes interior air temp is 26C (78.8F) It's a tub in tub method. Four and a half days later I could see colonization. I suspected it was probably noticeable a day previously but I didn't check.

The mycelium is fuzzy and has spread out from the injection point.
I have never shook the jar.
22 days later I noticed some the mycelium on the top of the kernels has become thicker. It looks glossy and smooth.
Today I noticed kind of a dry? yellow spot on the mycelium and some slight yellow, brown areas.
 I also noticed a wet spot. Maybe this is just condensation that has run down the side of the jar.

The box that it is incubating inside smells like mushrooms and nothing that would indicate mold or rot to me. Other than that the mycelium appears normal, but what do I know...
Tomorrow will be 28 days since injection. What is taking so long?! 
I suspect lack of gas exchange, dried out WBS or possibly genetics. Maybe there is some contamination...I don't know.
Edited by AEL1911 (01/18/14 05:58 AM)
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19381197 - 01/07/14 07:31 AM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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I will post here because nobody else has to bump it up.
I have no experience in this species, though I would assume trying something along the lines of a sawdust / woodchip / straw mixture to inoculate next time to see if it takes to it much faster.
Other than that, watch your temps and observe whats working best!
Yellow could be yeast, wet spot could be slime mold?
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
Edited by JMcDoogle (01/07/14 07:32 AM)
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NOTFALL3N
Epic

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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: JMcDoogle]
#19381363 - 01/07/14 08:52 AM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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I got some atl#7 going and yes it is much slower than my cubes I have sitting beside it IMO!
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Ganzig
It's for the street cred


Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 8,206
Loc: Oregon
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: NOTFALL3N]
#19381380 - 01/07/14 08:57 AM (10 years, 24 days ago) |
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Seems like your moisture content is a little too high.
Strange that you can't smell any bacteria though.
That would be my first guess.
You are going to transfer the grain to wood right?
If so, you don't have to wait for the whole thing to colonized just pour off the un-colonized grain and use the colonized grain.
Are you in a hurry for any particular reason?
If you are not I would just say leave it be.
Also, don't use an entire print for something like this in the future.
It would make more sense to put some spores on agar and then transfer.
Unless you are drowning in Gym prints or something.
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I must keep reminding myself of this. I must keep reminding myself of this. I must keep reminding myself of this. I must keep reminding myself of this.
Edited by Ganzig (01/07/14 08:59 AM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19382329 - 01/07/14 12:56 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
AEL1911 said:
I let the jars cool overnight. Upon removing from the pressure cooker I noticed the WBS was clumped together in a big mass. I had to vigorously shake the jar to get the kernels to seperate.
Thats y it took long, you didn't rinse well enough, but at least you made it lol! if it smells good then congrats, here are my gym jars that took about 11 -14 days



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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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AEL1911
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: cronicr]
#19383909 - 01/07/14 05:30 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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I thought I rinsed pretty well. The water wasn't too dirty looking during rinsing. No I'm not in any particular hurry and yes I will spawn to some supplimented shredded oak and beech chips. No I didn't use the whole print, probably not even 25% of it.
I made some PF cakes (substituted verm with shredded and chipped wood) from the same print. They reached full colonization in 2 weeks or a day or 2 less. Unfortunately those cakes were made too wet and the bottom of the jar never colonized. I decided to let them consolidate for a week then birthed them. I did a 16 hour dunk then roll and they are currently in my SGFC. 21 days since birth they haven't produced any pins. Anyway that's another post.
About agar is it highly likely that a wild print would contain bacteria and or mold spores which could stop and or slow down colonization? I also heard MS inoculation is a crap shoot as compared to innoculating with agar. I'm pretty new to cultivation so I'm trying to pick up what useful information from this forum as I can (which is a lot)
Thanks for your response guys. Well if I never get any fruits or contamination at least it was a learning experience and I'll be trying again!
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19383969 - 01/07/14 05:39 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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yes theres a good chance of contams with wild prints but it's not guaranteed, those pics i posted i didn't use agar and had some success
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: cronicr]
#19384074 - 01/07/14 05:56 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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what species is this anyway? nevermind i found it lol, mine was luteoviridis
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
Edited by cronicr (01/07/14 06:01 PM)
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AEL1911
Stranger



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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: cronicr]
#19384804 - 01/07/14 08:10 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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I see. Did you shake your jars? I decided not to shake mine since someone seemed to have trouble with the mycelium recovering and bloodworm stated the myc should not be disturbed. Of course I've read to shake the jars once.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19384819 - 01/07/14 08:13 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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yeah i shook mine without issue, stonesun told me it wouldn't be a problem and he was spot on i got his and java dogs grows in the info section under other species
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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AEL1911
Stranger



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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: cronicr]
#19384822 - 01/07/14 08:14 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: what species is this anyway? nevermind i found it lol, mine was luteoviridis
So what is it? lol I don't know and haven't send the spores to anyone for examination under a microscope.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19384824 - 01/07/14 08:15 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
AEL1911 said:
Quote:
cronicr said: what species is this anyway? nevermind i found it lol, mine was luteoviridis
So what is it? lol I don't know and haven't send the spores to anyone for examination under a microscope.
i just read your link lol!
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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AEL1911
Stranger



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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19384854 - 01/07/14 08:21 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Well maybe i'll try again with shaking. Is it possible that a small amount of substrate or cake wouldn't produce fruits? Everyone else was doing bags. One of the wild fruits I found was fairly large, but I did find a few that weren't as large. I wanted to see if indoor cultivation was feasible before devoting a few quarts of substrate to inoculation.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19384864 - 01/07/14 08:23 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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mine was about 2-3 inches and fruited fine with a thin casing layer, and another fruited fine with out one
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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AEL1911
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: cronicr]
#19384927 - 01/07/14 08:35 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: mine was about 2-3 inches and fruited fine with a thin casing layer, and another fruited fine with out one
I found a wild fruit somewhere near that size. I was surprised at how long the larger wild fruits lasted. Maybe slow growth is a good thing. EDIT: I now think he meant the substrate depth.
I think I'll still wait a little for the WBS to colonize then spawn to bulk and case with a 50/50+ mix. What were your fruiting temperatures? I'd like to keep them in a certain room but that room ranges from 10-6 degrees Celsius. I think i'll have to keep them in another less than ideal place. At least it won't drop below 10 degrees Celsius.
Edited by AEL1911 (01/18/14 06:11 AM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19384941 - 01/07/14 08:38 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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well the ones i had were tropical so i used regular room temps
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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AEL1911
Stranger



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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: cronicr]
#19384971 - 01/07/14 08:44 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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I checked the temperature in the area about a month before I found the fruits and concluded that my previous choice for a fruiting temperature was probably less than optimal. Lots of trial and error
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19385014 - 01/07/14 08:51 PM (10 years, 23 days ago) |
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thats right! try at room temp alot of cold weather fruiters only fruit at those temps just because it's too dry in the summer
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: cronicr]
#19389609 - 01/08/14 05:43 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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I have some BLG jars that are like a fucking year old I keep procrastinating on using. They look good still though. Ole Wiscokids Jilms from Wisconsin.
What Gym species is this? Why are you using wbs? No rye grain around?
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AEL1911
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I never got a straight answer about the species. I can get rye grain if I order on the internet. I think it wasn't too expensive but it wasn't like a 50lb bag(not that I need it, yet)
I tried wbs because it's available at a local hardware store. The bag actually stated the nutrition levels!
I'll probably try rye soon. I want to make sure my methods work before I invest too much money. It's all about rice in this country but whole grain barley, corn and hemp seeds are available. Whole grain wheat and rye seem like it would have to be ordered. I've read corn, hemp and possibly wheat is a poor choice for grain spawn or substrate, I forget which right now.
Edited by AEL1911 (01/18/14 06:13 AM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19390287 - 01/08/14 07:58 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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wheat is fine, not a fan of corn these days lol, so what are your plans after colonization?
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: cronicr]
#19390569 - 01/08/14 08:53 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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I didnt see your in Japan!! Do you hunt mushrooms too? Theres some awesome rare ones we'd love to see!! Like Psilocybe subcaerulipes and Psilocybe venenata !
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AEL1911
Stranger



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Quote:
psylosymonreturns said: I didnt see your in Japan!! Do you hunt mushrooms too? Theres some awesome rare ones we'd love to see!! Like Psilocybe subcaerulipes and Psilocybe venenata !
I was hunting a lot towards the end of summer and into fall. I've stopped due to the weather not being inducive to mushrooms growing. Yes I'd also love to see some psilocybe as well.
I'm sure I passed up on some edibles, but it's hard to identify species. Well I know spring will be nice since I'm familiar with some spots. I'm sure I'll be posting on the hunting forum when it warms up.
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AEL1911
Stranger



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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: cronicr]
#19390855 - 01/08/14 09:59 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: wheat is fine, not a fan of corn these days lol, so what are your plans after colonization?
Spawn to bulk (supplemented wood chips) Eventually I'll put the bulk trays in my SGFC to fruit. It's not as much bulk as some people.
The grains look good enough today. I'm soaking my chips now and I'll pasteurize the sub when I get home.
Edited by AEL1911 (01/09/14 01:21 AM)
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cronicr



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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19390868 - 01/08/14 10:01 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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what type of supplement?
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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AEL1911
Stranger



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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: cronicr]
#19390905 - 01/08/14 10:08 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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Rice bran. The whole sub is beech chips, shredded oak, gypsum, rice hulls (instead of verm) and rice bran.
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cronicr



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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19391012 - 01/08/14 10:33 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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then shouldn't you be sterilizing that mix?
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: cronicr]
#19391166 - 01/08/14 11:16 PM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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Ya if your messing with supplementing , it takes like 3 hours at 15 psi. It has to be sterilized.
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AEL1911
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Yah I guess I'm not clear about it. I've heard sterilize anything with BRF or bran but then I've read to not sterilize bulk sub. I wanted to add the bran to allow faster colonization, but do I not need it? My ratio is about 1:10. This is my first time with grain spawn.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19391456 - 01/09/14 12:33 AM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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subs like manure shouldn't be sterilzed, but i wouldn't say bran is needed but it helps, i fruited my luteoviridus on simple chips and grain but i think i could have done better with suppliments
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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AEL1911
Stranger



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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: cronicr]
#19391491 - 01/09/14 12:40 AM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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Yah now that I think about it I think the posts I read where someone cultivated gyms, they sterilized their supplemented substrate. So what about this"we don't want to kill beneficial bacteria in the sub" This doesn't apply to wood? So basically with bran, sterilize Without bran pick your nose and butt or pasteurize.
If I sterilize the sub I only have a glovebox for "sterile" spawning. Maybe I should put the bran back in the bag.
Edited by AEL1911 (01/09/14 01:21 AM)
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19392640 - 01/09/14 08:26 AM (10 years, 22 days ago) |
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No that does not apply to wood.
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AEL1911
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FAIL!!!

Ok so I decided to spawn the grain to pasteurized supplemented wood based substrate. After 8 days one container smelled like gym socks and the other smelled sour.
There goes 30 days of grain colonization and 8 days of mold growth down the drain. Oh well.
Initially I was surprised to hear in one of the previous posts to sterilize at 15psi for about 3 hours. I did read on another website that wood heats up slowly. Is this the reason for the long cooking?
So If I sterilize the substrate in jars then transfer that substrate into a plastic container(that was in boiling water) and spawn the substrate with WBS inside a glovebox, would my chances of contamination drop significantly enough to allow for full colonization?
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psylosymonreturns
aka Gym Sporrison



Registered: 10/16/09
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Re: Gymnopilus slow grain colonization [Re: AEL1911]
#19436933 - 01/18/14 09:17 AM (10 years, 13 days ago) |
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If you were planning on growing these indoors, pasturization is not enough. Its the supplements, like I originally told you, that really needs the 3 hours. I know this from shiitake cultivation, and you are from Japan, you guys invented this shit!! 
I would put it outside in a flower pot and let nature do its thing, maybe a few grains will still be ok and be able to leap off. Once outdoors the fresh air will either make it or break it. Its better then letting it rot inside.
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AEL1911
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It's outside in a trash bag because it stinks and I was afraid to contaminate my room. It's been pretty cold out lately but maybe I can put it in a pot with some potting soil and neglect tek it.
About shiitake most hardware stores sell a 3 ft oak log with colonized dowels already in. It costs roughly $7 U.S
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