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Offlinebigd17
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cooling substrate quickly
    #19379749 - 01/06/14 10:07 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Something recently dawned on me and I just had to know what the good people of the shroomery had to say about it. 

I have taken many a food handler/management safety course and there is a "temperature danger zone" so to speak at which point bacteria is at its peak and grows quickly and more easily.

Now I know, "this isn't a hobby for people with no patience" I've read that as a response to tons and tons of posts. 

However, it would seem to me, Theoretically of course, that bringing the jars down to a safe temp at which to inoculate without destroying the spores would actually help to reduce the risk of contamination as opposed to leaving your substrate/lc to cool overnight.

I mean even if you leave it in the pc or pot, whatever you use, I would think that the high humidity within not only the pot but also the jars would just be an invitation for bacteria especially considering how long it would be in this temperature danger zone.

So I guess my question is, am I totally off base on this one or has anyone experimented with this hypothesis to any avail?


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: bigd17]
    #19379771 - 01/06/14 10:10 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

yeah but by the time it's cooling...you just sterilized it:shrug:


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: cronicr]
    #19379805 - 01/06/14 10:16 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Well yeah I get that but it's no longer being heated which just means there's nothing to ward off potential contaminants and no competition for the available nutrients. 

Like I said, hypothetically, contam city.

I know that people have been using this method for a long time and I'm sure without much trouble but if there's a way to increase your success rate then why ignore the possibility?


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: bigd17]
    #19379817 - 01/06/14 10:18 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

what possibilty? the outside of my jar is gonna get contams fall on it once it's out of the pc anyway, everything inside is nuked:justdontknow: faith in filters:cool:


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: bigd17]
    #19379844 - 01/06/14 10:21 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Perhaps one could submerge the pot in a sink of cold water and ice maybe just halfway up the sides of the pot. 

Put something heavy on the lid to hold it down.

It's the same method for cooling big pots of soups or sauces before putting them in the fridge to chill.

Of course the reason I ask is if someone else has already thought of this and tried it and ended up getting contaminants due to this then obviously it wouldn't be worth wasting the time to even try.


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: bigd17]
    #19379850 - 01/06/14 10:23 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Yeah I guess that makes sense as long as nothing can get through that filter.


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: bigd17]
    #19379858 - 01/06/14 10:24 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

bigd17 said:
Perhaps one could submerge the pot in a sink of cold water and ice maybe just halfway up the sides of the pot. 

Put something heavy on the lid to hold it down.

It's the same method for cooling big pots of soups or sauces before putting them in the fridge to chill.

Of course the reason I ask is if someone else has already thought of this and tried it and ended up getting contaminants due to this then obviously it wouldn't be worth wasting the time to even try.



you would crack all your jars


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: bigd17]
    #19379865 - 01/06/14 10:25 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

aye youre overthinking it, SFDs with a SAB or FH


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: twistedty]
    #19379890 - 01/06/14 10:30 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

haha I overthink everything...  SFD's are filter discs right?

I've read they can be made from tyvek (which I just harvested from my local post office [about the only thing the place is good for if you ask me])

Can you use those on brf cakes by just cutting it into a circle the size of the jar mouth and putting the lid and ring on over it or does it need to be big enough to fold down over the threads on the jar so the ring can hold it in place?


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: bigd17]
    #19379970 - 01/06/14 10:46 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

yep filter disc's
and don't bash the post office there good print delivery people and yes you can use sfd's for cakes just skip the dry verm layer, search a tek up for sfd's


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: cronicr]
    #19380156 - 01/06/14 11:26 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Maybe in Canada their good, in the states they pretty much suck.  Ordered some bags from outgrow and they were "delivered" on Dec. 30th, but not to my house, called a bunch of times and got nothing, finally went up there and they told me there was nothing they could do about it and to contact the sender because the mail was insured. 

Then I was waiting on spores and the website said the shit was at the post office, so I got up at the crack of dawn to get to the office to pick it up and they told me it was out for delivery so I go home to wait and he comes to my house 2 times in one day to drop off mail(talk about inefficient) and doesn't drop the package until the next day.

Plus they're government employees, service with a smile? Try stagnant with a grimace.

Fuck U.S.P.S.


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: bigd17]
    #19380159 - 01/06/14 11:27 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

However, thank you kind sir for your advice on sfd's.


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: bigd17]
    #19380163 - 01/06/14 11:28 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

i'm sorry....:justdontknow:
Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:




:laugh2: i'm just kidding


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: cronicr]
    #19380202 - 01/06/14 11:43 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

bigd17 said:
I mean even if you leave it in the pc or pot, whatever you use, I would think that the high humidity within not only the pot but also the jars would just be an invitation for bacteria especially considering how long it would be in this temperature danger zone.




Bacteria is not a contaminant of the bulk substrate, unless it is a bacteria that is growing on your grains that you use as spawn.

Proper pasteurization :thumbup:






--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
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You should take a look. :hehehe:


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: bigd17]
    #19380232 - 01/06/14 11:53 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

I have taken many a food handler/management safety course and there is a "temperature danger zone" so to speak at which point bacteria is at its peak and grows quickly and more easily.



There may be actually depending on how you sterilize your substrate. There are bacteria that grow only above room temperature and they're the last to die in the sterilization process. However for it make a difference the temperature would have to be raised above room temperature longer than the time it takes for the jars to cool.


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19380233 - 01/06/14 11:53 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

haha that cat is hilarious and no worries man they're still good for the tyvek, at least my tax dollars don't go completely to waste :tongue2:

and do you mean to say that bacteria can't get in through filters if it ends up in the air or on the top of your jar?


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: bigd17]
    #19380267 - 01/07/14 12:04 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

bigd17 said:
haha that cat is hilarious and no worries man they're still good for the tyvek, at least my tax dollars don't go completely to waste :tongue2:

and do you mean to say that bacteria can't get in through filters if it ends up in the air or on the top of your jar?





Pretty much. If you are using pf tek, the verm layer is your barrier against contams but you can add micro pore tape over the inoculation holes, if ya'd like.

If you are having issues with contams, it may be the spore source, or the sterile process along the way.

Fwiw, bacteria and contams are all over your jar the second you open that PC. The  sterilizing process just gives your mycelium a head start.


--------------------
"The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug." MJK

As one ends, another begins.



Edited by MarcusFreeman (01/07/14 12:06 AM)


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: MarcusFreeman]
    #19380339 - 01/07/14 12:27 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

MarcusFreeman said:
bacteria and contams are all over your jar the second you open that PC.




Yes, the outside of the jar. That is why we use filters for our sterile media :shake:


--------------------

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You should take a look. :hehehe:


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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: twistedty]
    #19380354 - 01/07/14 12:31 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

twistedty said:
aye youre overthinking it, SFDs with a SAB or FH



thats synthetic filter discs a still air box or frankhorrigan, loooks like you got your FH:thumbup:


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


Edited by cronicr (01/07/14 12:34 AM)


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: cronicr]
    #19380358 - 01/07/14 12:33 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
Quote:

twistedty said:
aye youre overthinking it, SFDs with a SAB or FH



thats synthetic filter discs a still air box or franfhorrigan, loooks like you got your FH:thumbup:




or flow hood either or

:rofldrunk:


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: cronicr]
    #19380379 - 01/07/14 12:39 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)



--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19380515 - 01/07/14 01:22 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:

MarcusFreeman said:
bacteria and contams are all over your jar the second you open that PC.




Yes, the outside of the jar. That is why we use filters for our sterile media :shake:





Well yeah, :smile:. but even when the jar is knocked up, there are bound to be a very small amount of contams that get in. The mycelium out numbers and out competes the competitors and the jar is happy.... Well in most people's jars. :thumbup:


--------------------
"The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug." MJK

As one ends, another begins.



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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: MarcusFreeman]
    #19380537 - 01/07/14 01:30 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

If there are any contams present that the mycellium must "fight" you already lost the battle.

Inoculating should not introduce any kind of contamination, if it does you are doing something wrong.

This is not a race against contams.....


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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: PussyFart]
    #19380548 - 01/07/14 01:32 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

I was under the impression that when using multispore from a print, there is a good chance some sort of contam could get in. But generally an irrelevant amount. Or is that wrong?


--------------------
"The trick is to use the drugs once to get there, and maybe spend the next ten years trying to get back there without the drug." MJK

As one ends, another begins.



Edited by MarcusFreeman (01/07/14 01:32 AM)


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: MarcusFreeman]
    #19380564 - 01/07/14 01:35 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

when your starting from a syringe there's a chance it's not clean but thats your risk, use agar and there's no race no dumb luck:thumbup:


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: bigd17]
    #19380961 - 01/07/14 05:07 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

bigd17 said:
Perhaps one could submerge the pot in a sink of cold water and ice maybe just halfway up the sides of the pot. 

Put something heavy on the lid to hold it down.

It's the same method for cooling big pots of soups or sauces before putting them in the fridge to chill.

Of course the reason I ask is if someone else has already thought of this and tried it and ended up getting contaminants due to this then obviously it wouldn't be worth wasting the time to even try.




Horrible idea.

Allow the substrates to cool slowly to avoid damaging the filters by the sudden rush of air and/or loss of pressure.  It's sterile inside the pressure cooker and jars until you open them.  Allow to cool slowly for 12 hours or so until you can handle the jars without protection for your hands from the heat.

Remember, we're sterilizing, not cooking a soup.
RR


--------------------
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: MarcusFreeman]
    #19381121 - 01/07/14 06:38 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Not trying to be contrary here but taxes don't pay for the postal service.  All revenue for the post office is generated through stamps/shipping costs.   


Edit:  I read through this post too quickly and thought the discussion was on pasteurizing, not sterilizing.    It's still very early here.  COFFEE.


Edited by Pistil-Whipped (01/07/14 06:41 AM)


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Offlinebigd17
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Re: cooling substrate quickly [Re: Pistil-Whipped]
    #19381440 - 01/07/14 09:15 AM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Cool, I haven't been able to find micropore tape thus far but I found breathable paper tape that was in the pharm section.  I just put a piece over each noc point and put another over it after I injected.

I hope that wasn't a bad idea since the second piece of tape obviously wasn't sterilized.

I also don't have an FH but intend on trying to build on in the distant future, until then I do need to make a glovebox.

I know most people are probably gonna slap their foreheads but I opted instead to turn the a/c off, clean my entire work area with bleach water solution, and just do them inside of a sterilite container that I wiped down with bleach solution.

I know it's not perfect but until I build a GB it's the best I got.  Plus we keep our house pretty clean.

In retrospect, I could prob just cut holes in the side of that bitch so I can work with the lid on, I mean it's not a true GB but until I find tyvek sleeves and buy the silicone and pvc its a hell of a lot better than working in basically open air.


--------------------
"The secret to success is to make your Vocation a Vacation."
      -Mark Twain

Confucius say,"man who stand on toilet, high on pot."

The answer to the question never asked is always no.


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