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Offlines240779
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Why psilocin?
    #19378473 - 01/06/14 06:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Whenever I read about professionals using mushrooms, I always hear about them using isolated psiocybin. For example, I read that Al Hubbard kept a supply of psilocybin. Gary Fisher used psilocybin in his treatments. Ram Dass said "Timothy Leary gave me psilocybin." I've heard of mushrooms referred to as "psilocybin mushrooms." I recall news articles/videos talking about psilocybin when talking about recent experiements. Dr. Robin Carhart-Harris used intravenous psilocybin in his experiments.

And yet, I've seen multiple posts on here where people convey that psilocin is the main chemical in mushrooms, in that they exclusively refer to psilocin.

So, what's the deal? Why does The Shroomery use psilocin, where the professionals use psilocybin?


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Offlineurthtown
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: s240779]
    #19378501 - 01/06/14 06:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

"Psilocin can be obtained by dephosphorylation of natural psilocybin under strongly acidic or under alkaline conditions (hydrolysis)."

"As a drug, psilocybin is quickly converted by the body to psilocin, which has mind-altering effects similar (in some aspects) to those of LSD, mescaline, and DMT."

-wikipedia

People talk of psilocin because as soon as you eat em, the psilocybin just turns into psilocin... it's the psilocin that's psychoactive.


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OfflineDustJuice
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: s240779]
    #19378506 - 01/06/14 06:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Not %100 percent sure, but doesn't psilocin turn into psilocybin when it oxidizes ? psilocin is not as chemically stable as psilocybin and eventualy becomes psilocybin anyway.

^^^ cool sig.


Edited by DustJuice (01/06/14 06:16 PM)


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Offlines240779
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: urthtown]
    #19378509 - 01/06/14 06:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

urthtown said:
People talk of psilocin because as soon as you eat em, the psilocybin just turns into psilocin... it's the psilocin that's psychoactive.




I know, but obviously the academics are doing something right...


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Offlineurthtown
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: s240779]
    #19378520 - 01/06/14 06:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Da2ra said:
Quote:

urthtown said:
People talk of psilocin because as soon as you eat em, the psilocybin just turns into psilocin... it's the psilocin that's psychoactive.




I know, but obviously the academics are doing something right...




I think you are misinformed...

"Psilocin and its phosphorylated cousin, psilocybin, were first isolated and named in 1958 by Swiss chemist Albert Hofmann. Hofmann obtained the chemicals from laboratory-grown specimens of the entheogenic mushroom Psilocybe mexicana. Hofmann also succeeded in finding the synthetic routes to these chemicals.[3]" - wikipedia

Hoffmann for one was working with both chemicals... and he's the first to isolate them.... isn't he one of your "academics"?


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Offlines240779
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: urthtown]
    #19378532 - 01/06/14 06:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

urthtown said:
Hoffmann for one was working with both chemicals... and he's the first to isolate them.... isn't he one of your "academics"?




Yes, and Hofmann made pills or capsules of psilocybin and brought them to Mexico.

(As reported near the end of 'Problem Child' and the new book, 'Mystic Chemist')


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Offlineurthtown
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: s240779]
    #19378536 - 01/06/14 06:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

which were then converted to psilocin whenever they were consumed....?? I still don't follow...


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OfflineDeathcore
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: urthtown]
    #19378631 - 01/06/14 06:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

da2ura ill pm u tux for that link I've been reading it somewhat on gonna read more later on but


from my research psilocybin converts to psilocin in your liver than transfers to your brain..could be wrong...

also our bodies naturally produce psilocin..


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: Deathcore]
    #19380552 - 01/07/14 01:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Because it's easier to say psilocin than psilocin/psilocybin since that's the one that directly causes the effects. Mushrooms contain both to varying amounts. Whereas when you read about experiments with psilocybin they're talking about ingesting solely psilocynin even though it gets converted to psilocin shortly after ingestion.


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InvisibleTangich

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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: DustJuice]
    #19380706 - 01/07/14 02:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DustJuice said:
Not %100 percent sure, but doesn't psilocin turn into psilocybin when it oxidizes ? psilocin is not as chemically stable as psilocybin and eventualy becomes psilocybin anyway.




No, it's the other way around. When psilocin oxidizes, it turns inactive. But you are right, psilocin is not chemically stable and oxidizes readily.
That is why the 'experts' refer to having psilocybin. Because they can't have stored psilocin, can they? But when they ingest that psilocybin, it turnes into psilocin, which is the active compound.


Edited by Tangich (01/07/14 02:34 AM)


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: Tangich]
    #19380717 - 01/07/14 02:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Psilocybe cubensis has some of the highest levels of psilocin but lower levels of psilocybin than the liberty cap or cyanscens. Psilocin oxidizes quickly which is why cubensis loses a lot more potency when dried. Liberty caps stag extremely potent dried because of low psilocin and higher psilocybin levels. Both psilocin and psilocybin, also baestocin? Every mushroom has varying levels of these compounds. Psilocybin turns into psilocin in the liver, psilocin can oxidize very quickly so keep it away from oxygen, especially if it was to be in its pure form (which is impossible unless it's in a vaccum).


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Offlines240779
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: Mad Season]
    #19381033 - 01/07/14 05:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
psilocin can oxidize very quickly so keep it away from oxygen, especially if it was to be in its pure form (which is impossible unless it's in a vaccum).




Thanks guys. That explains it. Arguably, speaking of psilocin is like speaking of 2-oxy-LSD. It's simply not the essence of mushrooms because it can't exist properly on this atmosphere. It is both a byproduct and a metabolite in humans. Baeocystin may be of no significance by the way:


Psilocybin and psilocin are closely related to baeocystin (= O-phosphoryl-4-hydroxy-N-methyltryptamine, norpsilocybin), which probably represents the biogenic precursor of psilocybin (Repke et al. 1977; cf. also Brack et al. 1961 and Chilton et al. 1979).

[Its role is that of the mushroom's synthesis of psilocybin.]

The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants. Christian Rätsch (2005), pg 836


Supporting evidence. Hofmann is referring to psilocybin pills:


As we took leave of María Sabina and her clan at the crack of dawn, the curandera said that the pills had the same power as the mushrooms, that there was no difference. This was a confirmation from the most competent authority, that the synthetic psilocybin is identical with the natural product.

LSD: My Problem Child. Albert Hofmann (1980)


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OfflineChief Kief
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: Deathcore]
    #19383760 - 01/07/14 05:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deathcore said:

also our bodies naturally produce psilocin..



???? Never heard of this and just googled it nothing popped up where did you hear/read this?


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OfflineDeathcore
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: Chief Kief]
    #19383930 - 01/07/14 05:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

nvm...that was dmt...i was wrong


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: Mad Season]
    #19384050 - 01/07/14 05:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Psilocybe cubensis has some of the highest levels of psilocin but lower levels of psilocybin than the liberty cap or cyanscens. Psilocin oxidizes quickly which is why cubensis loses a lot more potency when dried. Liberty caps stag extremely potent dried because of low psilocin and higher psilocybin levels. Both psilocin and psilocybin, also baestocin? Every mushroom has varying levels of these compounds. Psilocybin turns into psilocin in the liver, psilocin can oxidize very quickly so keep it away from oxygen, especially if it was to be in its pure form (which is impossible unless it's in a vaccum).



Estimated psilocin content of mushrooms is probably not very reliable. A lot of the older testing that was done was with faulty extraction methods. The extraction process can destroy psilocin but oddly enough it can also degrade psilocybin into psilocin which by the way apparently can also spontaneously occur over time. So older samples can sometimes be found with more psilocin, and less psilocybin.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Why psilocin? [Re: s240779]
    #19385228 - 01/07/14 09:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Whenever I read about professionals using mushrooms, I always hear about them using isolated psiocybin.




What "professionals"? It's just people referring sloppily to the actual actives (which are psilocybin, psilocin and possibly
baeocystin ) without distinguishing between the phosphorylated versions...  If you take any of them you trip.  If you take pure psilocybin it gets dephosprylated in the liver, back into the bloodstream, and then you trip.  If you take pure psilocin it goes into the bloodstream and then you trip.  And so on.  The time varies but the effect is the same.  Most/all active species contain more psilocybin than psilocin by % weight.

And yes, you can store psilocin, but you have to extract it first without oxidizing it.  Making acidic tea as shown in my sig does that trick, and you can freeze it for as long as you like and it stays good.

:peace:PS


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