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Offlinecuriositydream
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Drugs and mental illness
    #19377862 - 01/06/14 03:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Go beautifuly together, under the right sceneraio... Breifly in the 50s did they use LSD. it was starting to go somewhere. then the riots and people in the 60s led to the outlaw of these things. psychadelic research had a severe blowback... Smart people like ourselves know that psychadelics are the holy grail in treating or "improving" mental illness. They actually go together very well. I know haha. But stigma and demonization is healing slowly. but does seem to be healing. There is promising research. I dream of the day when psychadelics can be used for those who so wish, and for those who would benefit such as the mentally ill. They go well together. That is all

edit - I always say it's like cookies and milk. cookies (the drugs) as long as grandma made them and milk (the mental illness) as long as it's not spoiled milk. it works so beautifuly even santa would approve



also. with mental illness there is stigma too. It is a big part of helping the mentally ill to reduce negative stigma (stigma typically is negative, but can also mean any misunderstanding of a subject) to help eliminate stigma so these people can be just as a part of the world as anyone else.. I always thought things happened to the mentally ill before they happened to the rest of society..

drugs have the same type of stigma (negative misunderstanding or even demonization). but we are seeing the stigma rapidly healing for marijuana. thats a good job. seeing it in the morning paper often the "debate" and the exposure it gets helps make people be less judgemental or fearful. I'ts a good campaign to eliminate stigma.. the mentally ill are often the same boat.. rarely are they "dangerous" or miscreants to society. It is often the mentally ill suffer on their own and the purpose of treatment is to help them not punish them. We are seeing a lot of stigma being healed in the past 20 years it's exciting. The mentally ill are getting their story out there (here and there). I have already seen mental illness is not a negative thing. Just think of bender from the TV show futurama. He has classical mental illness and I have even seen that he was born that way in the one episode. He was born a defect. They say the mentally ill are born that way too, and Bender was a lovable and extremely funny character. Alot more enriching and lovable than the rest of those robots who weren't defects. True mental illness is considered medical. It is quite fasicnaitng once you know more about it and I have been around a lot of mentally ill people and my life has been enriched by experiencing them


Edited by curiositydream (01/06/14 04:02 PM)


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OfflineWhoManBeing
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: curiositydream] * 3
    #19377938 - 01/06/14 04:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

the tool is only as good as the use of hand.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: curiositydream]
    #19378200 - 01/06/14 05:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, indeed, the stigma surrounding persons who suffer from mental illness is extremely sad.  Mental illness is a disease just like chicken pox or the flu.  Unfortunately, it afflicts the mind and the affects, so its manifestations can be quite alienating and destructive.  People with mental illness are, however, some of the most interesting you're likely to meet, assuming they've got things under control -- which is quite possible with modern pharmaceuticals.

Things have improved a lot, but unless you've been around it the conventional behavior is to feel awkward about it.  Unfortunately.

On the subject of mental illness and drugs, it is my understanding that it just depends on the person, like it does for everybody else.  Some people should take acid, some shouldn't.  I don't think having mental illness really alters those percentages.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19380128 - 01/06/14 11:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Drugs and mental illness don't go together. Mushrooms may be less likely to cause relapse than the others from my experience, but certainly cannabis causes severe relapse even in small amounts (1/4 a cone), so do MDMA/amphetamines. Pretty much anything that perturbs brain chemistry is going to exacerbate this small chemical balancing problem people are born with in the brain. So is extreme stress/trauma. Mushrooms work differently to the other psychs; they only weakly activate the dopamine system, so they might be more forgiving. Mental illness is not treatable by recreational drugs. Eventually better treatment will be found and/or a cure and that will be the drug to be taking.

Mentally ill people are usually quite boring due to negative symptoms preventing any emotional expression, feelings of pleasure or abstract thinking. The 'interesting' ones you meet are just different from the bizarre experience they're having. When I was severely mentally ill I was no one.


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My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: circastes] * 1
    #19380155 - 01/06/14 11:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Depends on what your issue is, some of the same substances you named have clinical use. There's as many problems with the mind as there are with the body


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Offlinecuriositydream
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: circastes]
    #19380316 - 01/07/14 12:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
Drugs and mental illness don't go together. Mushrooms may be less likely to cause relapse than the others from my experience, but certainly cannabis causes severe relapse even in small amounts (1/4 a cone), so do MDMA/amphetamines. Pretty much anything that perturbs brain chemistry is going to exacerbate this small chemical balancing problem people are born with in the brain. So is extreme stress/trauma. Mushrooms work differently to the other psychs; they only weakly activate the dopamine system, so they might be more forgiving. Mental illness is not treatable by recreational drugs. Eventually better treatment will be found and/or a cure and that will be the drug to be taking.

Mentally ill people are usually quite boring due to negative symptoms preventing any emotional expression, feelings of pleasure or abstract thinking. The 'interesting' ones you meet are just different from the bizarre experience they're having. When I was severely mentally ill I was no one.





Tht's why treatment is recovery based. I always thought mental illness was one of three things... A less intelligent person who yhas yet to be deduced. an average person who has yet to be observed, or the third... a person who is ahead of his time who has yet to be caught up to, or understood... ... and you were'nt no one u might have felt like it but people care


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Edited by curiositydream (01/07/14 12:35 AM)


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: curiositydream]
    #19380396 - 01/07/14 12:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

curiositydream said:
and you were'nt no one u might have felt like it but people care




:awepreciation:


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My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: circastes]
    #19381118 - 01/07/14 06:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Actually psychedelics and mental illness do NOT go together. Why would you say that? Something like acid can bring out a mental illness in a person if he is predisposed to it. That means he could have potentially gone all of his life without developing the illness. Also, psychedelics will make it worse or even cause a psychotic break. When you say mental illness, you're talking about things like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder right? I could see psyches treating something like social anxiety but definitely not the aforementioned...


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19381137 - 01/07/14 06:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Psychedelics can open the doorway to mental illness type symptoms and alleviate some of those same symptoms.  Its a fucking gamble.  I was diagnosed Bipolar after my encounter with, literally, Good and Evil then schizoaffective when I didn't stop hearing voices.  (of spirits mind you)  But, I just got back from the coast and had some light azure experiences that were very heartwarming and graceful.  Healing even.  And I was left with a lasting glow of satisfaction and contentedness.  They are like THE DOUBLE EDGED SWORD.


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Offlinecuriositydream
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: FishOilTheKid]
    #19381311 - 01/07/14 08:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I was also going on the documented use of psychadelics on the mentally ill (and my own use) and their positive affect. as documented on http://www.hofmann.org/papers/sandison_1.htm, http://www.hofmann.org/papers/fisher/fisher_4.htm ...


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Offlinecuriositydream
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19381339 - 01/07/14 08:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Aopocetx said:
Actually psychedelics and mental illness do NOT go together. Why would you say that? Something like acid can bring out a mental illness in a person if he is predisposed to it. That means he could have potentially gone all of his life without developing the illness. Also, psychedelics will make it worse or even cause a psychotic break. When you say mental illness, you're talking about things like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder right? I could see psyches treating something like social anxiety but definitely not the aforementioned...




Schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, schizoaffective are mental illnesses but so are other things like schizotypal and personality disorders.. even phobias (phobia is an anxiety disorder) I wasn't being real specific just mental illness in general LOL ...

although me personally having schizoaffective unspecified. They positively helped me.. I was a lot more rigid and closed off before.. Distant from people but still involved.. Then after some psychadelics I was a lot more open


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Edited by curiositydream (01/07/14 08:45 AM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: circastes]
    #19381472 - 01/07/14 09:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
Drugs and mental illness don't go together. Mushrooms may be less likely to cause relapse than the others from my experience, but certainly cannabis causes severe relapse even in small amounts (1/4 a cone), so do MDMA/amphetamines. Pretty much anything that perturbs brain chemistry is going to exacerbate this small chemical balancing problem people are born with in the brain. So is extreme stress/trauma. Mushrooms work differently to the other psychs; they only weakly activate the dopamine system, so they might be more forgiving. Mental illness is not treatable by recreational drugs. Eventually better treatment will be found and/or a cure and that will be the drug to be taking.

Mentally ill people are usually quite boring due to negative symptoms preventing any emotional expression, feelings of pleasure or abstract thinking. The 'interesting' ones you meet are just different from the bizarre experience they're having. When I was severely mentally ill I was no one.




I was not suggesting that psychedelic drugs and mental illness "go together," nor that they should be used to treat it.  I mentioned pharmaceuticals, as some of these are wonderfully effective treatments for mental illness. 

Furthermore, mentally ill people who have been successfully treated can be extremely interesting.  One doesn't have to assume that to be mentally ill you always have to exhibit symptoms.  A bipolar person successfully treated would be quite indistinguishable from anyone else were they not to make one aware of it.  The "bizarre experience" is not ubiquitous if your disorder is being controlled.

Which point is, finally, what I was referring to when I said that it depends on the person.  Yes, drugs can be extremely counterproductive for a mentally ill person.  They also, I want to stress, may have no unusual effect beyond that of the drug.  It is not true that drugs generate universally catastrophic symptoms for a person with mental illness.  It really does depend on the person.  Anyone can freak out on drugs; someone with mental illness may not.  Kind of a crapshoot.

Which is NOT to say that those who are ill should take drugs indiscriminately or even at all given the potential dangers.  But I have had a lot of experience with persons in whom there was no exacerbating effect.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: curiositydream] * 1
    #19381734 - 01/07/14 10:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

curiositydream said:
Smart people like ourselves know that psychadelics are the holy grail in treating or "improving" mental illness.



Maybe I'm stupid, but I know no such thing.

After an extremely traumatic bad trip a few years ago, I experienced paralyzing depression, anxiety, and thoughts of suicide for a long time. Couldn't enjoy or care about a single thing. In fact, I envied people who were depressed over things like losing loved ones, because I was so far beyond earthly cares like that it would have been a relief to be depressed over something tangible. It was like all my feelings had been ripped out of me, leaving a black hole that sucked the meaning out of everything I did, leading me to see everyone, even myself, my closest friends, and my family, as nothing but meat-bags that were too transient to give the slightest shit about. It's like when you find yourself unable to get sucked into a movie because the acting is bad -- except it was like that for everything in my life.

After a few months, I started to improve a bit, i.e. I could enjoy some things a little bit here and there. But to be honest, I don't think I've ever fully recovered. That black hole is still there, at my "core," if there is such a thing, sucking meaning and joy and caring out of my life. It's just a little bit smaller.

Ever since then, I've become steadily more of a poly-drug addict. I find it difficult to be sober. Doesn't matter what I'm on, weed, booze, painkillers, etc. For some reason they keep me from feeling the effects of the hole as much. :shrug:

Point being, I find it... difficult to recommend psychedelics to those suffering from mental illnesses. In my case, even when I was in a decent place in my life, tripping brought to the surface all my latent depression and anxiety and made them a million times worse.


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Offlineusulpsychonaut
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: NetDiver]
    #19389194 - 01/08/14 04:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Why the hell would anyone use drugs if they functioned well in society and felt good about everything to start with? IMHO only people with mental illness use drugs in the first place. I've been all fucked up all my life and psychedelics did no more that give me an occasional good feeling, which is why I did those wild mushrooms again and again. No different to any other drug I use.


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Offlinecuriositydream
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #19389940 - 01/08/14 06:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I heard that mushrooms can help rebuild and improve on grey matter in the brain and there is evidence that people with mental illness have deficits in grey matter...

and probably best estimate is a crapshoot but some people do good with crapshoot... probably lots of mixed feelings


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Edited by curiositydream (01/08/14 06:49 PM)


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: curiositydream]
    #19389947 - 01/08/14 06:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yay!!! All bow to the mad! We are the creative and weird!


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And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: curiositydream]
    #19397547 - 01/10/14 06:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

(NaturalNews) A new study by The University of South Florida has found that low doses of the active ingredient in magic mushrooms repairs brain damage caused by extreme trauma, offering renewed hope to millions of sufferers of PTSD (Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder).

The study confirms previous research by Imperial College London, that psilocybin, a naturally occurring compound present in "shrooms", stimulates new brain cell growth and erases frightening memories. Mice conditioned to fear electric shock when hearing a noise associated with the shock "simply lost their fear", says Dr. Juan Sanchez-Ramos, who co-authored the study. A low dose of psilocybin led them to overcome "fear conditioning" and the freeze response associated with it faster than the group of mice on Ketanserin (a drug that counteracts the receptor that binds psilocybin in the brain) and a control group on saline.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/041393_psilocybin_psychological_disorders_magic_mushrooms.html#ixzz2q0HTBZlo


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19397863 - 01/10/14 08:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Quote:

circastes said:
Drugs and mental illness don't go together. Mushrooms may be less likely to cause relapse than the others from my experience, but certainly cannabis causes severe relapse even in small amounts (1/4 a cone), so do MDMA/amphetamines. Pretty much anything that perturbs brain chemistry is going to exacerbate this small chemical balancing problem people are born with in the brain. So is extreme stress/trauma. Mushrooms work differently to the other psychs; they only weakly activate the dopamine system, so they might be more forgiving. Mental illness is not treatable by recreational drugs. Eventually better treatment will be found and/or a cure and that will be the drug to be taking.

Mentally ill people are usually quite boring due to negative symptoms preventing any emotional expression, feelings of pleasure or abstract thinking. The 'interesting' ones you meet are just different from the bizarre experience they're having. When I was severely mentally ill I was no one.




I was not suggesting that psychedelic drugs and mental illness "go together," nor that they should be used to treat it.  I mentioned pharmaceuticals, as some of these are wonderfully effective treatments for mental illness. 

Furthermore, mentally ill people who have been successfully treated can be extremely interesting.  One doesn't have to assume that to be mentally ill you always have to exhibit symptoms.  A bipolar person successfully treated would be quite indistinguishable from anyone else were they not to make one aware of it.  The "bizarre experience" is not ubiquitous if your disorder is being controlled.

Which point is, finally, what I was referring to when I said that it depends on the person.  Yes, drugs can be extremely counterproductive for a mentally ill person.  They also, I want to stress, may have no unusual effect beyond that of the drug.  It is not true that drugs generate universally catastrophic symptoms for a person with mental illness.  It really does depend on the person.  Anyone can freak out on drugs; someone with mental illness may not.  Kind of a crapshoot.

Which is NOT to say that those who are ill should take drugs indiscriminately or even at all given the potential dangers.  But I have had a lot of experience with persons in whom there was no exacerbating effect.



:thumbup:

I guess that's pretty solid.

Very interesting above that psilocybin improves brain matter/damage. I did always think it was a very healthy thing to have running through the brain in terms of a kind of 'nutritional' value... it has that healthy, organic, primal feeling to the whole duration of the experience.

If I was ever to touch non-prescription drugs again it would only be psilocybin. I don't think LSD is as forgiving as it plays strongly with dopamine also.

And the only reason I would dare go back to such a thing with the looming shadow of a total regression into my mind which is what some of the schizophrenics at the Flynn Psychiatric Unit appeared to be experiencing, is because it seems extremely plausible to me that what we are dealing with in the mushroom is some kind of sacrament, some kind of sacred consciousness.

I actually find it hard to understand how people find mushrooms recreational. They are a truly bizarre experience, especially all on your own. When I took them, whether or not it was because of my predisposition, I was completely 'unsane' (in the vein of Ken Kesey); well out of the realms of sanity yet not insane. I guess the euphoria is recreational but if you spare a moment to identify what you're experiencing you really have to be a wild child to appreciate that as 'recreational', and I'm not saying that's a bad thing.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: circastes]
    #19397878 - 01/10/14 08:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I hear that.  Psilocybin trips are such beautiful immersive expansive intimate things.  I can't see myself 'frying ballz maaaan.'


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Drugs and mental illness [Re: circastes]
    #19397888 - 01/10/14 08:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

But yeah I think this whole experience is actually a sacred construct, and for mushrooms to appear in the wild with alkaloids that take you into a sacred consciousness is an obvious pointer that they are meant to be consumed, that they have some message. So even though schizophrenia loves a chemical chaos in the brain whether it be alkaloids or extremely high dopamine from stress, I am tempted to return to that place...

But I see it as only being a huge risk, I'd never go into it expecting to be better off with regards to the illness.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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