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OfflineEddYerb
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Registered: 10/11/13
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Das Capital? *DELETED*
    #19375919 - 01/06/14 05:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by EddYerb

Reason for deletion: Want to remove


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InvisibleEchro
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
Re: Das Capital? [Re: EddYerb] * 1
    #19377552 - 01/06/14 02:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Producers & Manufacturers used to have incentives to reduce pollution. Thank the State abolishment of tort & nuisance laws for continual pollution, not property rights. In today's contemporary political landscape, pinning the root of the world's ills on "Capitalism(whatever that means)" is a cop out. A coordinated response for climate change is just newspeak rhetoric for more economic controls, more behavior controls, more top down central planning, more cartelization of the economy, more favors to politically well connected vested interests. The State doesn't care about the environment. It cares about the controlled output of the subservient populace.


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"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 21,590
Loc: Dallas with all the assho...
Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
Re: Das Capital? [Re: Echro] * 1
    #19380707 - 01/07/14 02:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Echro said:
The State doesn't care about the environment. It cares about the controlled output of the subservient populace.





That's the most legitimate statement I've heard here about what the state actually fucking cares about.

We have the 'two parties' who have fucking shit themselves and fucked everything up for the last 100 years--endless regulations, control, centralization, on and on, and things just keep getting worse.

Yet they play the game every election cycle of 'vote for our party and we will fix the wrongs.'  Its fucking bullshit and you have a large majority of the population who believe the horsepoop--and it's evident on this forum that most posters here--especially ones just coming of age--have bought into the bullshit that they need to wear a studded dog collar and clown suit and suck the governments dick for things to be right.

you can really see it when you have morons who call libertarians 'racists' and say that liberatarians are 'crazy' and 'are religious nuts' blah blah blah when in reality all liberatarians want is for the government to get the fuck out of the way and let people live free without the suck-ass control of authoritarian 'democrats' and 'republicans'


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InvisibleEchro
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Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
Re: Das Capital? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19380793 - 01/07/14 03:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:manofapproval::thumbup:


--------------------
"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Das Capital? [Re: Echro]
    #19382463 - 01/07/14 01:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The state doesn't care about the environment because no one cares about the environment. It is the son and just like the father. Lessening the states power wouldn't help one iota either, the will of the people would only prevail in another way, and right now their will prevails through the state as they have chosen it.

Of course there have always been those with power who can put the hammer down harder than others but this happens in any system. People choose state mostly because it softens the blow to weaker members who are a majority.

That's why the opposition of political ideologies is all a bunch of baloney. Although some rights and ideals are worth fighting for in protection of ourselves.

People are stupid and until that changes the political tools of the day really matter little, whatever that weather, war and general idiocy will be the order. The consensus will remain the same, if the world changed to any other system tomorrow we would still be wrecking our future with gasoline and alcohol, pumping out more and more people while resources thin and leaving them to deal with the consequences.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleEchro
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Re: Das Capital? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #19384500 - 01/07/14 07:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Do you sincerely believe the largely symbolic institution called Government, which is operated by Individuals no less corruptible than you or I, who produce nothing more than empty promises & feel good rhetoric, is representative of the Collective Will of the masses? As far as I can tell it's representative of it's own will. & the majority of people didn't choose the system, they were born into it. Most people are just trying to cope & survive within the existing institutional framework. That doesn't automatically validate it or presuppose it's a byproduct of some objective will. & did you over look my reference to tort & nuisance laws? We used to have the legal framework, based on the foundation of property rights, to sue polluters in this country. Your Waste is still your property, & in any sensible society you should be accountable to how you dispose of it. The people didn't will the erosion of those legal property protections, The State did.


--------------------
"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


Edited by Echro (01/07/14 08:05 PM)


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Das Capital? [Re: Echro]
    #19387381 - 01/08/14 10:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Echro said:nothing more than empty promises & feel good rhetoric.




Sounds like the majority of mainstream media, popular newpapers and broadcasts, nearly every blockbuster movie, every chart hit, all the big business' people buy into time and time again, the political leaders who people buy into on the promised revolution and give nothing but the same time and time again after yet more violence. So yes, I sincerely do believe that. They are the ones who say the are a dem or a repub, the ones who talk about change and then go and buy a McDonald's burger rather than supporting local small business.

Same as ever at least in the last two or three centuries.

Most of the people I have met simply don't give a shit about how much waste they throw or what the consequences of that will be. Or if they do it's just barely. If it came to actually making a collective decision about actually doing something extreme in order to fix the overpopulation and pollution problems or carrying on with the same old nonesense of recycling a little to make ourselves feel a better while we carry on as ever I've a pretty fair idea where most people would throw their vote.

Look at India, the place is a cramped up hellhole of pollution and noise and people and yet the population is still growing. Frankly I think it's naive to put the blame on government, it's nearly as bad as placing it with some kind of unseen Illuminati.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleEchro
Psychedelic Nihilist
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
Loc: SoCal
Re: Das Capital? [Re: Grapefruit]
    #19388415 - 01/08/14 02:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm well aware pinning the blame on government can come off as an intellectual cop-out. But you have to wonder, how would people arrange themselves given a broader set of choices & options, with no arbitrary external influence? I'm not a fan of high density living, I do not believe it to be entirely compatible with human physiology & psychology. This is not to say I'm opposed to industrialism either, however. I'm fairly certain the majority of cities & suburbs in this country are byproducts of massive subsidy & political favoritism. You have a phenomenon that largely would not be able to sustain it's self outside of artificial funding. Other people footing the bill is practically a cultural value in cities. Nobody really owns anything either. Whatever isn't publicly owned & supplied is rented out. Why would people have a sense of accountability, when somebody else can deal with it? I personally try not to litter when I go on hikes or get fucked up in the riverbed because I don't like to look at trash heaps while I'm trying to enjoy nature, but it'd be just as easy to rationalize littering because there's already trash on the ground. It's easy to disregard the environment when you feel little right to it anyway. This is the product of cultural values only a political framework can shape.

India is a perfect example. They're recipients of foreign aid, which crashes local economies & ends up being funneled by the government to politically favored interests in the country, & they're a welfare state. It's easy to grow beyond sustainable means & have more kids you can afford to if you're being subsidized for doing so. What do you think the population would look like if it grew in accordance to real productive output?


--------------------
"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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