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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Re: Coco peat coir used as casing? [Re: Edmunter]
#19376881 - 01/06/14 11:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Edmunter said: so use as a substrate in this case and not a casing layer?
If you are using grain spawn, I would spawn the grain to a 70/30% mix of coir verm, and allow for full colonization. After colonization you have a choice to case or not. Casing the surface area with a mix of verm/coir is certainly a viable option at that point, and depending on your environment may benefit. The dry winter can really screwed with uncased substrates.
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Edmunter
Mr



Registered: 05/01/13
Posts: 5,699
Last seen: 1 month, 12 days
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Re: Coco peat coir used as casing? [Re: cronicr]
#19376890 - 01/06/14 11:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nice one, So Im going to bulk the rye seed up a little and then try the bubble wrap tek. I will report back later.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Coco peat coir used as casing? [Re: Edmunter]
#19376922 - 01/06/14 11:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Rye grass seed has lots of potential, but (partially for that very reason I've realized) it won't be much used without something to retain its moisture & provide more, offer an ideal humidity microclimate, and a low-nutrition environment to pin on. A casing layer perfectly hits all 3, which is why even people growing with 'bulk' subs benefit from using casing layers especially in drier conditions. Bulk subs themselves do all 3 also which is why results are much better with bulks than uncased unwatered grains, but they don't do all 3 as well (microclimate) as a casing layer + watering.
Coir works nicely as a casing layer AND a substrate due to its low nutrition, ideal pH, water-holding capability, and fine fluffiness. Peat works as a casing layer WHEN pH-treated, but I still see more contams on them than I'd like... It would also work as a "bulk" substrate I suppose, due to water holding, but definitely wouldn't be as nice and may have more contams. I don't like peat without some garden lime and a hefty share of verm, and I have great distaste for buying verm. I've switched to sifted potting soil for casing layers and it gets the best of all that and is way cheaper too. Give that a shot.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,865
Last seen: 1 day, 21 hours
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Re: Coco peat coir used as casing? [Re: Edmunter]
#19376927 - 01/06/14 11:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Edmunter said: so use as a substrate in this case and not a casing layer?
Yup. Same thing basically except you let it fully colonize and generally you mix it evenly together with the rye instead forming a single layer over it.
Alternatively you can fruit rye in vitro with no casing or bulk substrate but you'll get much lower yields.
Edit: Actually I haven't tried rye seed in vitro, but rye berries works so I'm assume it would too.
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Edited by Kizzle (01/06/14 11:36 AM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Coco peat coir used as casing? [Re: Edmunter]
#19376941 - 01/06/14 11:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Edmunter said: Nice one, So Im going to bulk the rye seed up a little and then try the bubble wrap tek. I will report back later.
don't bother with bubble wrap if your gonna have a casing layer, the casing layer gives you all you need and the bw won't give you any more benifit
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Coco peat coir used as casing? [Re: Kizzle]
#19376985 - 01/06/14 11:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Kizzle said: Alternatively you can fruit rye in vitro with no casing or bulk substrate but you'll get much lower yields.
MUCH lower, whether it's invitro or not. Grains need more water than they have on hand to realize all their yield potential.
My straight-grain cakes of grass seed weigh average ~115 grams with ~58 of that being seed, making them ~50% water with ~60 grams of water at the most. Since mushrooms are ~90% water, that means I cannot grow more than 6 dry grams from that container in the first flush. Likely less since some is lost over time and evaporation. I expect like four times or more that much yield from said containers, so they'll need well over four times that much water to do it, hence bottom-watering.
In my recent round of culture tests on 1/3 cup of prepared rice, the 2 cultures that are showing to be my best so far first yielded 10 grams wet each from their cakes due to water limitation... but the following 3 flushes were 16, 17, and 15 grams. HELL YEAH WATERING
Also the fruiting behaviors I almost always get from straight-grains is kindof pathetic, invitro or not. A casing layer (even invitro) makes the magic difference that causes the same substrate to explode with fruits.
   
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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magickspore



Registered: 12/11/12
Posts: 798
Loc: Center of the universe.
Last seen: 8 months, 29 days
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Re: Coco peat coir used as casing? [Re: Tangich]
#19377037 - 01/06/14 12:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Tangich said:
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magickspore said:
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Tangich said: Coco coir is great as a casing material, especially mixed with vermiculite or perlite. Works as a substrate as well, if you have nothing else.
Until someone proves this with consistent grows I think coir is NOT a good casing and IS a good sub.
If you can't find peat moss and you absolutely need a casing look into bubble wrap or wax paper. There are a few alternatives to a peat CASING.
People have been growing with coir casing for years, very successfully, before someone came out and said 'coir is rubbish and peat is the only thing to use', and everybody started parroting it.  Peat is a horrible material IME, but I mainly use it in gardening capacity, when I absolutely have to. And coir is great for that as well. And nothing beats horse manure for P. cubensis as a substrate, it's naturally preferred substrate for thousands of years, with some water retaining material added to make it even better.
My apologies I usually stick to posts newer then 1-2yrs (if possible). As you said I saw it repeated again and again randomly and somehow it got stuck in my head. Since I haven't had to use casings yet (other then a few experiments). It never occurred to me that it was inaccurate.
Thank you for setting my straight.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Coco peat coir used as casing? [Re: magickspore] 1
#19377042 - 01/06/14 12:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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it's an old school casing material that seems to have disappeared, don't worry about it your not the only one
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Re: Coco peat coir used as casing? [Re: cronicr]
#19377086 - 01/06/14 12:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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cronicr said: it's an old school casing material that seems to have disappeared, don't worry about it your not the only one
If you look over older posts, there are 2 things that pop up:
Roger Rabbit made a few statements that coir casings can lead to overlay....So everyone and their brother started questioning if their substrate had overlay.
but then he has made statements to the effect of wishing he never said overlay, he has only seen it a few times.
Lots of definitions have changed over the last 10 years, and discoveries are being made every day. This is a very dynamic type of hobby. PF cakes were groundbreaking in their time, and in the big scheme of things really only happened a heartbeat ago.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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i played with it alot, the best method i found for it was a sorta "late casing" and by doing so my casing never got fully colonized right through all my flushes
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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