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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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OfflineAllisterem
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Registered: 12/04/13
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Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Simple Realization
    #19376921 - 01/06/14 11:30 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

I was pondering the absence of "me" from the world, that everything I hold dear everyone and everything I love will be untouchable by me at some point.  This is a certainty we all face.  Whether I like it or not everything I know, everything I'm comfortable with will be gone. 

So why exist at all?  Why are we here?  The answer came quickly and beautifully.  We're here for each other, this statement from my frame of mind encompassed everything. 

From the little girl in war torn africa who gets her heart cut out through her back for good luck battle sacrifice (Negative aspect), to the happy dog in your home.(positive aspect)  We're here for each other. 

Were we take it from there is our choice, or so we think.

I should add I went to a state of absolute befuddlement, I couldn't tell up from down, light from dark, language from shadow, for a long moment in the meditative state (I closed off parts of my brain I'm guessing) whilst scary at first I recognized it as my body trying to exemplify my pondering and accepted it as much as I could.


Edited by Allisterem (01/06/14 11:43 AM)


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OfflineXUL
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: Allisterem] * 1
    #19376964 - 01/06/14 11:40 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

I was pondering the absence of "me" from the world




Quote:

everything I know, everything I'm comfortable with will be gone.





You will be gone and you will deteriorate. And you could be shortly forgotten.


It doesn't seem to me that there is a factual reason for existence at all. As humans we maintain our specific way and we die. So do ants.

It sounds to me like you discovered love, charity, empathy, and maybe even esteem for humanity. That is great. I can identify with you. I love to lend a helping hand to my community.


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OfflineAllisterem
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: XUL]
    #19377008 - 01/06/14 11:53 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Factual, interesting word.  Yes, I'm a bit behind in the game here.

I'm not saying anything new, nothing new under the sun and all that.

One or not.  Here it(consciousness)appears separate and we (all conscious beings)are here to experience each other. 

Which if you take into account the infinite complexities of past experience and probable experience is mind boggling. 

Not sure why I'm putting this here, it's been said before.  Just putting the experience out there.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: Allisterem] * 2
    #19377355 - 01/06/14 01:56 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

clearly it does not matter that there is no permanence or any other absolute character in this relative universe, however relation is meaningful, and meaningful relations are fulfilling in their own right.

what XUL is pointing at makes sense.

this is not a mathematic equation, it is a mutual experience matrix; a dream ever more poignant that we can't make it mean other than it already is.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinedragonsmack
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19379285 - 01/06/14 08:31 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Your on the right path but realize that we are not here for each other.  We are here because we are here and if you want to make use of your time here in a positive way that is truly awesome.  In the end our energy will change state and become something else...and then something else...and then....


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: dragonsmack] * 2
    #19379390 - 01/06/14 08:46 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Agree, anything we may believe about purpose is wishful thinking most likely.  It's a big fat fucking mystery. :feelsweirdman:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineAllisterem
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19387286 - 01/08/14 10:29 AM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
clearly it does not matter that there is no permanence or any other absolute character in this relative universe, however relation is meaningful, and meaningful relations are fulfilling in their own right.

what XUL is pointing at makes sense.

this is not a mathematic equation, it is a mutual experience matrix; a dream ever more poignant that we can't make it mean other than it already is.




I like this but still a part of me disagrees.  Nature of experience can be mathematically communicated, math is a language after all.  So there is something to that.  As to making mutual experience mean anything there we get into fate or choice.

Fated experiences mean something to me* but that could be because I've conditioned myself to see meaning in everything. Obviously some experiences more than others.  (Like meeting an ET or having huge boulders fall in a perfect circle around you while pausing to observe the beauty of a canyon while thinking about impermanence and interconnection circle of life)

Personally I've had 3-4 powerful experiences throwing fate directly into my face. Was making determined choices to an end but ended up receiving an example of fate instead.  So perhaps it's a combination of fate and choice...like the ending to Forest Gump :P.

I should add that the more one travels the more one tends to lean towards fate.  Our first experiences were outside of our control and all of our following reactions to future experiences were based upon those original.  So in a sense we are a genetic sack containing our experiences...upon interacting with that bag it will react in different ways depending upon it's contents. 


Edited by Allisterem (01/08/14 10:56 AM)


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OfflineAllisterem
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: Icelander]
    #19387319 - 01/08/14 10:36 AM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Agree, anything we may believe about purpose is wishful thinking most likely.  It's a big fat fucking mystery. :feelsweirdman:




That it is :smile:


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OfflineAllisterem
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: dragonsmack]
    #19387344 - 01/08/14 10:42 AM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Quote:

dragonsmack said:
Your on the right path but realize that we are not here for each other.  We are here because we are here and if you want to make use of your time here in a positive way that is truly awesome.  In the end our energy will change state and become something else...and then something else...and then....




Ah, but in saying that "to make use of your time here in a positive way that is truly awesome." you agree in being here for each other. If we do things that help continue the comfortable existence of another we are "rewarded" with happiness.  It's part of us.  Has it always been that way?  Who knows?!  Maybe with more of a look into Genomes we can figure that out. (/facepalm I realize how weak this is...not really getting across what I mean to get across...come on brain!)

As far as we know there has never been just One organism.  We've always had something else to interact with.  Thus reproduction.  To be where we are today involved extreme circumstances, many creatures (not all obviously) but ALL organisms have a NEED to reproduce. 

But back to being here for one another, what of the scenario of organisms taking on care and relations with other organisms of completely different species?  It's not just humans that do this.  My/Your pet most likely (in the case of most americans) will not reproduce but you find comfort in their companionship.  Why?

This is one nastily horrifyingly beautiful system we got going here.


Edited by Allisterem (01/08/14 10:54 AM)


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: Allisterem]
    #19387411 - 01/08/14 10:56 AM (10 years, 23 days ago)

I don't see how it is the answer .. you said that the issue is your nonexistence.. how being for others solve it ?? do you mean that you don't care about the issue anymore when you picture yourself happiness for a time with others ??

maybe it works for you, but still the issue is the same .. you and others at certain point you are nothing at all you disappear in pains

I mean if you really enjoy being with others, then the issue is bigger .. you will see them dying or suffering while you cant do anything for, as strangers they would look till they die

I mean being with others don't make your happy life with them


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OfflineAllisterem
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: absols]
    #19387467 - 01/08/14 11:06 AM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Impermanence is, as it seems to me, the reason we try to act positively.  We naturally want to be happy/excited/interested (unless there is some serious mental alteration) even in the lone wolf scenario the loner is happy to be alone. 

If everything is heading to nothing then why not spread kindness?

Causing harm do to impermanence would either be a result of ignorance to the operations of other conscious beings or a need to survive a little bit longer so that the being can continue to impact its environment.

don't see how it is the anwer .. you said that the issue is your nonexistence.. how being for others solve it ?? do you mean that you don't care about the issue anymore when you picture yourself happiness for a time with others ??  There is nothing to solve; right, impermanence is irrelevant in intense moments.

maybe it works for you, but still the issue is the same .. you and others at certain point you are nothing at all you disappear in pains
Suffering is unavoidable.
I mean if you really enjoy being with others, then the issue is bigger .. you will see them dying or suffering while you cant do anything for, as strangers they would look till they die I've been there for the dying, yeah it sucks the majority of the time but in some instances it's beautiful (I'm an EMT)

I mean being with others don't make your happy life with them

Note* THIS IS VERY TRUE but the point is you're there for them and they for you nonetheless, this is factual because it cannot be denied (they are there and you are there).  Your interactions with them are what's important now.


Edited by Allisterem (01/09/14 12:23 AM)


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Offlineabsols
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: Allisterem]
    #19387902 - 01/08/14 12:15 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

I disagree totally .. which prove the relative character to any claim about being

for you impermanence work .. this is one of the argument that negative conditioning system say ..
because it works for you, you try to reduce the fact of opposite it causes .. so your sense would sound more present from you

to me and others only certainties are source of our positive moves .. we act at the end of what we know being true, whether about ourselves or objective reality of facts

what is to nothing or through opposites or in negative way, is enough reasons to not be at all ..

our difference is fundamentally due to our set of beliefs

you believe yourself
I believe the truth

to you there is no truth, it is all according to what you would see it like or mean
then it is normal how you would enjoy negative perspectives, since it is then easier to act as the only positive one

my way of being is more simple in principle but much more harder to apply
I believe that anything is true, except myself that I don't believe really .. even if I happen to do a whole fact alone I would become different or differ
even if something is positively rewarding to myself like truly, I would also be tempted to reject it.. I like freedom better ..but to me everything else is true or free like me
because I believe the truth, I cant believe myself since ourselves are never objective beings .. we are constantly because of a lot of things and not from our existence fact
that is why to me freedom is the self truth, for what objectively it is the only way of being someone really

so my reference still the truth
while yours seem to be your preference

I would adjust my preferences regarding truth first
you would generalize statements regarding your preferences

for me it is normal I am not judging you as being wrong

for what I know myself, I enjoy the truth

so for who don't enjoy truths.. how could it be still but through enjoying himself ?? it is not an answer .. bc I don't know I am not that way

but it is to say how for me it is normal, I am not the normal reference for what not everybody can enjoy seeing objective values and enjoying changing and advancing as a serious doing while free as nothing



Edited by absols (01/08/14 12:28 PM)


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OfflineAllisterem
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: absols]
    #19391453 - 01/09/14 12:31 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

absols said:
I disagree totally .. which prove the relative character to any claim about being

for you impermanence work .. this is one of the argument that negative conditioning system say ..
because it works for you, you try to reduce the fact of opposite it causes .. so your sense would sound more present from you

to me and others only certainties are source of our positive moves .. we act at the end of what we know being true, whether about ourselves or objective reality of facts

what is to nothing or through opposites or in negative way, is enough reasons to not be at all ..

our difference is fundamentally due to our set of beliefs

you believe yourself
I believe the truth

to you there is no truth, it is all according to what you would see it like or mean
then it is normal how you would enjoy negative perspectives, since it is then easier to act as the only positive one

my way of being is more simple in principle but much more harder to apply
I believe that anything is true, except myself that I don't believe really .. even if I happen to do a whole fact alone I would become different or differ
even if something is positively rewarding to myself like truly, I would also be tempted to reject it.. I like freedom better ..but to me everything else is true or free like me
because I believe the truth, I cant believe myself since ourselves are never objective beings .. we are constantly because of a lot of things and not from our existence fact
that is why to me freedom is the self truth, for what objectively it is the only way of being someone really

so my reference still the truth
while yours seem to be your preference

I would adjust my preferences regarding truth first
you would generalize statements regarding your preferences

for me it is normal I am not judging you as being wrong

for what I know myself, I enjoy the truth

so for who don't enjoy truths.. how could it be still but through enjoying himself ?? it is not an answer .. bc I don't know I am not that way

but it is to say how for me it is normal, I am not the normal reference for what not everybody can enjoy seeing objective values and enjoying changing and advancing as a serious doing while free as nothing








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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Simple Realization [Re: Allisterem]
    #19392671 - 01/09/14 08:41 AM (10 years, 22 days ago)

:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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