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John in WI
Neo-Luddite


Registered: 12/18/13
Posts: 358
Loc: On a hippy trail head ful...
Last seen: 5 days, 11 hours
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selecting mycellium from agar--grow #2 "homework" help
#19373195 - 01/05/14 02:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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In another couple days I should be ready to dunk 'n roll my B+ PF cakes. I'm excited as I had 0/16 contaminated jars. They went slow due to slightly cold temperatures, but they made it (eventually). Beautiful, pearly white.
Presumably I can get some fruit (built a shotgun FC exactly to plan).
I'm also a PhD candidate chemist, and of course need to noodle around with things!
I'm not a biologist, but understand the fundementals of genetics. The spores are haploid, so 2 need to combine if there is any hope of getting viable, fruitable mycellium.
From this, I have 2 questions. First, if you streak out bit of spore solution, what do you look for in the mycellium?
The second thing I totally don't understand is--if you are growing out a piece of tissue from a living mushroom, how does the "growing out" process actually work? It seems to me if you start with some set of genetics from the parent tissue, it would just grow out radially, but the genetics would be identical. Is it actually the case that the genetics are changing as you move away from the middle? That as it "fans out" from the middle, some segments are different (genetically) than others?
Go easy on me--I know all about breeding and growing plants. But 'shroom genetics is awfully esoteric even by my standards.
ps, I'm asking about the genetic and the selection criteria. The actual nuts and bolts of sterile culture looks to be tedious but straightforward.
I've really been appreciating the help and sage advice available here.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: selecting mycellium from agar--grow #2 "homework" help [Re: John in WI]
#19373213 - 01/05/14 02:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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when i start from spores i'm looking for the fastest growing mycelium and tranfering fromthe leading edge, fruits from multi spore can carry multiple genetics and sector out when you put a tissue sample on agar and you can isolate the individual sectors and test them out or sometimes it doesn't sector and you get a mono culture right off the hop
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: selecting mycellium from agar--grow #2 "homework" help [Re: John in WI]
#19373218 - 01/05/14 02:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
From this, I have 2 questions. First, if you streak out bit of spore solution, what do you look for in the mycellium?
The second thing I totally don't understand is--if you are growing out a piece of tissue from a living mushroom, how does the "growing out" process actually work? It seems to me if you start with some set of genetics from the parent tissue, it would just grow out radially, but the genetics would be identical. Is it actually the case that the genetics are changing as you move away from the middle? That as it "fans out" from the middle, some segments are different (genetically) than others?
I look for rhysomorphic growth(root form), also the furthest from the center as it's a good indicator of vigor
Some one else has a better answer but I'll just help this thread stay at the top.
Tissue from a living mushroom is a single organism with multiple genetics all contained in the same organism, weird I know.
So when you grow from tissue(that tissue being from MS) the fruit can contain many genetic strains, Some of them pop up by means I don't know and display at different times(don't quote me on that) The more you isolate small chunks(multiple sectors) the fewer sectors/strains there are and the easier it is to see a isolate strain.
If you use the search advance feature you can look for posts by rogerrabbit less than 2 years old and search for things like strain/isolate/monoculture and you'll probably find a hefty load of reading material that's somewhat of a recent opinion rather than old stuff. Alternatively NCBI has all sorts of mycology articles as long as you have the lexicon to be able to understand them.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: selecting mycellium from agar--grow #2 "homework" help [Re: bodhisatta]
#19373223 - 01/05/14 02:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also, John, are you in WI? hah
Kick ass avatar Chronicr
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (01/05/14 02:18 PM)
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John in WI
Neo-Luddite


Registered: 12/18/13
Posts: 358
Loc: On a hippy trail head ful...
Last seen: 5 days, 11 hours
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Re: selecting mycellium from agar--grow #2 "homework" help [Re: bodhisatta]
#19373260 - 01/05/14 02:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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"fruits from multi spore can carry multiple genetics"
Wow--is that right? Is that the result of "anastosmosis" (a question I asked about a couple weeks ago).
I mean, if I inoculate a jar of grain with 1cc of spores, I'm actually dosing it with an enormous number of spores. But I was under the impression that once a mushroom grew out, it's genetics were set in stone. Half came from each of the 2 spores that made up that particular mycellium that grew out to fruiting. But I'm wrong on this? (I'm honestly asking, not "questioning" or being a d-bag).
That's really a wonderful adaptation! (or as my adviser would say "Isn't science fun?!")Quote:
bodhisatta said: Also, John, are you in WI? hah Kick ass avatar Chronicr
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: selecting mycellium from agar--grow #2 "homework" help [Re: bodhisatta]
#19373265 - 01/05/14 02:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: selecting mycellium from agar--grow #2 "homework" help [Re: cronicr]
#19373307 - 01/05/14 02:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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After the mating, the resultant cell can now reproduce by mitosis, but the cell still has 2 nuclei, as mentioned. So, when it mitoses, the 2 nuclei split for a total of 4 nuclei, but still only 2 cells. Speed of growth is much greater in these dikaryotic mycelial threads, because they don't have to stretch a single cell over a long gap. They simply split into more cells to spread.
Clamp connections form between 2 dikaryotic mycelial masses. This is how one of those little fuzzy white patches (aka mycelium) mates with the other white patches. The dikaryotic mycelia "clamps" together. Thus, reproduction is complete.
NOW TIME FOR... Function Spores either drop, or are ejected from the bottom of the mushroom cap. The miniscule size of spores allows them to get caught in, and carried along, gentle air currents. When most spores hit the ground, they fall on infertile ground: rocks, leaves of grass, streams, etc. The few spores that do fall on fertile ground send out shoots into the ground, finding other shoots, from other spores and starting a reproductive process, connecting and expanding the underground fungus system otherwise known as mycelium hyphae is just one filament of a fungi.. mycelium is a network of hyphae..
Hyphae compose the mycelium so they have the same function, digestion and absorption of nutrients from the environment, and producing spores and sporangia. The sporangium is the structure upon which the spores are produced. The spores produce new hyphae and mycelium.
theres more here but yes multispore fruits can be multiple genetics
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17932422#17932422
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: selecting mycellium from agar--grow #2 "homework" help [Re: cronicr]
#19373329 - 01/05/14 02:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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John in WI
Neo-Luddite


Registered: 12/18/13
Posts: 358
Loc: On a hippy trail head ful...
Last seen: 5 days, 11 hours
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Re: selecting mycellium from agar--grow #2 "homework" help [Re: John in WI]
#19373339 - 01/05/14 02:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's fascinating! Completely alien to my crude understanding of genetics.
I ordered Paul Staments' book from Amazon and hope to get a good, thorough understanding of how this works.
Thanks a lot for the info!
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: selecting mycellium from agar--grow #2 "homework" help [Re: John in WI]
#19373345 - 01/05/14 02:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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 no problem, hope to see you around the boards
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: selecting mycellium from agar--grow #2 "homework" help [Re: cronicr]
#19374731 - 01/05/14 08:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: hope to see you around the boards
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