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Crystal G



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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
#19372927 - 01/05/14 01:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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morrowasted said: Welp, I'm done with talking to you after making this post. It's obvious that I'm talking to someone who has already made up their mind and it isn't really paying attention to what I say. I clearly stated that I teach undergraduate college classes. My classes are not subject to "School boards"; I design my own lesson my plans as I see fit and my students learn accordingly.
I didn't think you taught high school because I made up your mind about you, it was because I was reading a long paragraph of yours quickly, and I read the sentence "I taught at the undergraduate level" for "I learned in the undergraduate level." This made me deduce that you must be teaching at the high school level, because usually only master's degrees or PhD's are hired at the college level. This belief was further cemented by your other posts, "People should stop pursing truth" or whatever.
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I teach Spanish, though, so you don't need to worry about me "getting wrong ideas about science into the minds of our youth." In any case I was raised in Texas and we learn normal biology/chemistry/etc. just like anyone else; your assumption that we learn "Christian science" is asinine downright rude.
Again, refer to my previous post about the sort of material the Texas school board banned, specifically from history and political science textbooks.
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If you don't see how language limits science, learn about Godel's Incompleteness Theorem; or if you are too stupid to draw the conclusions from that yourself, read this book:

People should pursue science in the pursuit of useful ends like technological progress, medicine, etc., but it will not give you truth. It never will. Truth is something that individuals assign to propositions- it always has been that way, and it always will be that way. If you don't understand how that works, take a Logic I course.
Goodbye.
I never read Godel's books, however the latest one I have read was Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. So I am going to talk about that, since it would be stupid of me to argue about a book I never read. Mere Christianity was a philosophical, moral-based argument using "The Laws of Human Nature" for the existence of god based on false premises. The reason that you believe science is heavily language-based is because you read those kind of books. Theological books rely heavily on tautology and people's interpretations of historical human-made artifacts.
But, you also need to be reading criticisms and critiques of those books to understand the greater meaning behind why that book is so convincing in the first place.
I mean for Christ's sake, we have devised electron microscopes and have figured out how to take the RNA/DNA out of viruses so we can inject human bodies with the simple viral shell. People who say that science is language-based or has no real merit simply does not understand what science is, or how science works.
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morrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Crystal G]
#19372935 - 01/05/14 01:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, the reason I believe that science is language based is because scientific theories are formulated in language Mere Christianity is about Christianity. Try reading about language if you want to understand language. Stop drawing ridiculous conclusions from about about Christianity in an attempt to apply them to my understanding of science.
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Crystal G



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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
#19372944 - 01/05/14 01:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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morrowasted said: No, the reason I believe that science is language based is because scientific theories are formulated in language 
That does not mean it is language-BASED. Language is what is simply used to describe the PROCESS of what is actually PHYSICALLY HAPPENING in scientific applications. Language is not the foundation, the foundation is in the experiment and observation.
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zappaisgod
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
#19372960 - 01/05/14 01:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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morrowasted said:
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zappaisgod said:
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Shins said: Creation vs evolution is a false dichotomy.
ORLY? How so?
Because evolution could be a created phenomenon.... 
I do believe that creationists deny that.
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zappaisgod
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
#19372972 - 01/05/14 01:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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morrowasted said: No, the reason I believe that science is language based is because scientific theories are formulated in language Mere Christianity is about Christianity. Try reading about language if you want to understand language. Stop drawing ridiculous conclusions from about about Christianity in an attempt to apply them to my understanding of science.
Mathematics are language.
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morrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Crystal G] 1
#19372978 - 01/05/14 01:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Scientific applications of what?
Scientific hypotheses. Which are formulated in what?
Yup. Language.
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morrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: zappaisgod]
#19372988 - 01/05/14 01:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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zappaisgod said:
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morrowasted said: No, the reason I believe that science is language based is because scientific theories are formulated in language Mere Christianity is about Christianity. Try reading about language if you want to understand language. Stop drawing ridiculous conclusions from about about Christianity in an attempt to apply them to my understanding of science.
Mathematics are language.
Yes, mathematics are very simple languages that involve quantified predicate existential operators and definition operators.
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morrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Crystal G]
#19372996 - 01/05/14 01:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Crystal G said:
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morrowasted said: No, the reason I believe that science is language based is because scientific theories are formulated in language 
Language is not the foundation, the foundation is in the experiment and observation.
Interesting. In my class, step 1 was stating the problem. Step 2 was formulating the hypothesis. Experiment and observation came later.
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RiderOnTheStorm
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted] 1
#19373021 - 01/05/14 01:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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morrowasted said:
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RiderOnTheStorm said:
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morrowasted said: People should pursue science in the pursuit of useful ends like technological progress, medicine, etc., but it will not give you truth. It never will. Truth is something that individuals assign to propositions- it always has been that way, and it always will be that way. If you don't understand how that works, take a Logic I course.
And people say that atheists are know it alls...
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If you don't understand how that works, take a Logic I course.
I don't need to understand the contextualization of truth within a logic course to know that the pursuit of truth is what has driven every significant scientific discovery from ancient astronomy to evolution. Go ahead and argue semantics of the definition of truth if you want, the fact is people use science to understand the material world as it is without our subjective filters interference, which is as close as anyone is getting to truth.
That the earth does not revolve around the sun, is a truth discovered by science. That human beings share a common ancestor with chimpanzees, is a truth discovered by science. That the universe is billions of years old and not thousands, is a truth discovered by science. That specific aspects of consciousness can be pinpointed to physical structures of the brain and predictably altered by stimuli, is a truth discovered by science. In time, the process of how abiogenesis happens will most likely also be a truth, discovered by science.
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morrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
#19373040 - 01/05/14 01:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That human beings share a common ancestor with chimpanzees, is a truth discovered by science
Way to slip that one in there
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RiderOnTheStorm
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
#19373043 - 01/05/14 01:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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morrowasted said:
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That human beings share a common ancestor with chimpanzees, is a truth discovered by science
Way to slip that one in there 
Do you deny that it's true?
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Crystal G



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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
#19373066 - 01/05/14 01:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I always feel so embarrassed and ashamed to admit that I live in one of the only first-world countries where so many people believe still in creationism. It makes our nation a laughingstock, that the religious right has such strong power over our nation's beliefs.
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Confucian
...


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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
#19373069 - 01/05/14 01:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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morrowasted said: Yes, mathematics are very simple languages
Very simple languages? Do you even have a math background?
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zappaisgod
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
#19373072 - 01/05/14 01:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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morrowasted said:
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zappaisgod said:
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morrowasted said: No, the reason I believe that science is language based is because scientific theories are formulated in language Mere Christianity is about Christianity. Try reading about language if you want to understand language. Stop drawing ridiculous conclusions from about about Christianity in an attempt to apply them to my understanding of science.
Mathematics are language.
Yes, mathematics are very simple languages that involve quantified predicate existential operators and definition operators.
Mathematics are more complex than any other human languages
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psi
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: zappaisgod]
#19373079 - 01/05/14 01:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would think the "vocabulary" of mathematics is far smaller than that of a language like English.
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Crystal G



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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: zappaisgod]
#19373084 - 01/05/14 01:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
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morrowasted said:
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zappaisgod said:
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morrowasted said: No, the reason I believe that science is language based is because scientific theories are formulated in language Mere Christianity is about Christianity. Try reading about language if you want to understand language. Stop drawing ridiculous conclusions from about about Christianity in an attempt to apply them to my understanding of science.
Mathematics are language.
Yes, mathematics are very simple languages that involve quantified predicate existential operators and definition operators.
Mathematics are more complex than any other human languages
This actually makes music the most complex language, since music is all mathematical theory. 
Just picking on you cause I know you like to shit on the complexity of music. But actually, learning advanced music theory is said to be just as difficult as learning physics.
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morrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
#19373086 - 01/05/14 01:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I only accept propositions as true on as-needed basis for the purposes of drawing conclusions during argumentation. I do not have an epistemic structure of "true beliefs" which is constantly with me, ready to be hurled like ninjastars anytime one of my fellowmen threatens one them. I have been so sufficiently humbled by learning and experienced that I am willing to believe that just about anything is possible, and it doesn't seem necessary to accept that anything is true for longer than a few moments. I have not found that I am any less happy for having changed myself in this way. What I have found is that I am only "in agreement" with my fellows when I choose to be, because I really have no beliefs of my own. My arguments are generally too complex to be spoken without being prepared in advanced, so I often remain silent unless someone elicits my opinion on something, at which point I tend to simply tell them all the various perspectives with which I am familiar. It doesn't make for a sense of camaradarie, but I will say one thing: everyone I meet (in real life) seems to respect me. My students seem to try harder to do well than the students of other teachers; I encounter fewer of the problems I hear other TAs complaining about. Why? I would guess that it is because my students would feel bad about goofing off in my class, because they can feel that I genuinely care a lot. Maybe I am just insane. There are some who would probably call me that. In certain work environments I would probably have much more difficulty functioning without adapting my personality to be more like that of others.
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morrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: psi]
#19373091 - 01/05/14 01:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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psi said: I would think the "vocabulary" of mathematics is far smaller than that of a language like English.
These individuals who think that mathematics are a complicated languages are simply unfamiliar with formal syntax theories of natural language. Natural language is so much more complicated than any math that a comparison between the two is almost laughable.
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zappaisgod
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: psi]
#19373101 - 01/05/14 01:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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psi said: I would think the "vocabulary" of mathematics is far smaller than that of a language like English.
I believe you are mistaken, I believe English has the greatest vocabulary of all languages and size of vocabulary is not necessarily a measure of complexity. The rules are also important for that and English is known for not adhering to rules.
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zappaisgod
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
#19373110 - 01/05/14 01:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
psi said: I would think the "vocabulary" of mathematics is far smaller than that of a language like English.
These individuals who think that mathematics are a complicated languages are simply unfamiliar with formal syntax theories of natural language. Natural language is so much more complicated than any math that a comparison between the two is almost laughable.
ORLY? What do you know of topology? What is your idea of complicated? Not following the rules?
You are ignorant of the language of higher math.
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