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Offlinekoods
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: teamkiller]
    #19368981 - 01/04/14 04:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The other reason you have minimum wages is so that people with a job make enough money to not require government assistance. Essentially, if you pay someone $4 an hour, the taxpayers end up subsidizing the employees earnings.


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OfflineNymphaea
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19369072 - 01/04/14 04:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If everyone makes minimum wage (which it's like half of the people) then they all have to get food benefits and subsidized.  The minimum wage should be $10 across the board.

If the MONEY ACTAULLY STAYS IN THE LOCAL ECONOMY because minimum wage is higher then it will benefit all the business in that community cause those minimum wage earners are going to go out and spend that extra money back into their local economy.  All the businesses will see more business from the extra money left in the community each pay cycle. 


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Edited by Nymphaea (01/04/14 04:29 PM)


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

Registered: 09/29/06
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Nymphaea]
    #19369104 - 01/04/14 04:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Nymphaea said:
If everyone makes minimum wage (which it's like half of the people) then they all have to get food benefits and subsidized.  The minimum wage should be $10 across the board.

If the MONEY ACTAULLY STAYS IN THE LOCAL ECONOMY because minimum wage is higher then it will benefit all the business in that community cause those minimum wage earners are going to go out and spend that extra money back into their local economy.  All the businesses will see more business from the extra money left in the community each pay cycle. 




us poor bastards aren't the ones with swiss bank accounts sending shit over seas.

well you could argue some people send money to their relatives over seas, like illegals. but it's less of a difference.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19369211 - 01/04/14 04:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Dude you don't know what capitalism or socialism is obviously.


the USA is extremely socialist / fascist.  Its a myth that the USA is capitalist.




Alright, I'll play along.

Explain what capitalism is, what socialism is, and why the US is a facist and socialist state.




:loldongs:


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19369280 - 01/04/14 05:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
you could argue that.

people in this thread are so damn concerned with a minimum wage, why is no one concerned 90% of the wealth in the WORLD is controlled by a small percentage of people?




I am. At the mere suggestion of a wage cap I felt as though I was almost getting rocks thrown at me. To me a minimum wage increase is much more realistic and will at least balance out wealth to a small degree. Personally the numbers game bores er its $10 or $100 its just a number. But how can you value what what$56 will buy you in one day minus 25% income tax in terms of tangeable assets? Its almost like getting slapped in the face to say "socialism will raise the bare wage $1 is that what you want?"

As long as we are complaining about wage increase why not bitch about the free market all together? There is one last burger left on the planet, so the guy who made it decides to sell it for $3 million? So thats no facist? Its democratic?


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19369290 - 01/04/14 05:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The other reason you have minimum wages is so that people with a job make enough money to not require government assistance. Essentially, if you pay someone $4 an hour, the taxpayers end up subsidizing the employees earnings.




Thanks for that


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19369296 - 01/04/14 05:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

if there is 1 burger left yes it should sell for 3 billion. supply and demand.

wtf now youre being a socialist. pick a side damn it.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19369713 - 01/04/14 06:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

God damn, minimum wage doesn't bring more koney to a comunity, it just distributes the same money to less people...  you socialists all think money can just appear out of thin air.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19369719 - 01/04/14 06:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

dude if you knew how the federal reserve worked, yes it does appear out of thin air.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19369740 - 01/04/14 06:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
if there is 1 burger left yes it should sell for 3 billion. supply and demand.

wtf now youre being a socialist. pick a side damn it.




:winning:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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InvisibleShins
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19369771 - 01/04/14 06:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
dude if you knew how the federal reserve worked, yes it does appear out of thin air.




I do know how it works.... you can thank socialists for the Fed.

the evil bankers get to rob the country while the socialists/fascists get to spend and spend.

Meanwhile they blame capitalism and fail to see that it was socialist policies that enabled the fed to rob the people and enrich the crony corporations.

now were here debating the stupid minumum wage as if it would actually fix anything significant.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19369790 - 01/04/14 06:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
God damn, minimum wage doesn't bring more koney to a comunity, it just distributes the same money to less people...  you socialists all think money can just appear out of thin air.




Yeah, it takes from the people who have 1000 times more money that they need and gives it to people trying to be able to survive. Hopefully some will manage to pay for an education in order to get out of the shithole. Supressing the poor won't help anyone. Keep the poor happy. They outnumber us.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19369798 - 01/04/14 06:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No it won't, they will work people harder and/or cut their hours.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19369905 - 01/04/14 07:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

When unions get higher wages for their members by restricting entry into an occupation, those higher wages are at the expense of other workers who find their opportunities reduced. When government pays its employees higher wages, those higher wages are at the expense of the taxpayer. But when workers get higher wages and better working conditions through the free market, when they get raises by firm competing with one another for the best workers, by workers competing with one another for the best jobs, those higher wages are at nobody's expense. They can only come from higher productivity, greater capital investment, more widely diffused skills. The whole pie is bigger - there's more for the worker, but there's also more for the employer, the investor, the consumer, and even the tax collector.

That's the way the free market system distributes the fruits of economic progress among all people. That's the secret of the enormous improvements in the conditions of the working person over the past two centuries.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19369922 - 01/04/14 07:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
When unions get higher wages for their members by restricting entry into an occupation, those higher wages are at the expense of other workers who find their opportunities reduced. When government pays its employees higher wages, those higher wages are at the expense of the taxpayer. But when workers get higher wages and better working conditions through the free market, when they get raises by firm competing with one another for the best workers, by workers competing with one another for the best jobs, those higher wages are at nobody's expense. They can only come from higher productivity, greater capital investment, more widely diffused skills. The whole pie is bigger - there's more for the worker, but there's also more for the employer, the investor, the consumer, and even the tax collector.

That's the way the free market system distributes the fruits of economic progress among all people. That's the secret of the enormous improvements in the conditions of the working person over the past two centuries.




you missed the part where everything you just said is PHILOSOPHY. conglomerates dont give a fuck about free market.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19369949 - 01/04/14 07:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You are correct government supported conglomerates that is if the state simply did the few things it was mandated to do market forces would ensure ample competition and no monopolies.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19369963 - 01/04/14 07:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
God damn, minimum wage doesn't bring more koney to a comunity, it just distributes the same money to less people...  you socialists all think money can just appear out of thin air.




Actually, one of the ways money is created is through labor. So yes, higher wages do create money out of thin air.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19369982 - 01/04/14 07:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Money is not created by labour, its created by debt actually.

value or wealth can be created by labour but that is a seperate thing from money.

you do not create value by creating money, you can redistribute it though if you can fool enough suckers to buy into it.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19370041 - 01/04/14 07:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
dude if you knew how the federal reserve worked, yes it does appear out of thin air.




I do know how it works.... you can thank socialists for the Fed.

the evil bankers get to rob the country while the socialists/fascists get to spend and spend.

Meanwhile they blame capitalism and fail to see that it was socialist policies that enabled the fed to rob the people and enrich the crony corporations.

now were here debating the stupid minumum wage as if it would actually fix anything significant.




Ok then it wouldn't. But it wouldn't hurt much either. That's all I'm saying, to me it couldn't matter any more or any less either way. I don't even know why I'm defending minimum wage I haven't earned it in years I just feel bad for everyone else. I actually started a service business recently for a friend who started creating his own drinks I won't go into detail but I've actually been going and helping him set up events and make drinks it's pretty much our thing together, we haven't done much but break even but that'll change soon, as what I'm doing is really cheap to create and actually makes good money and we do events where people pay $5 and drink all day and it actually does pretty good 50 people show up and we do alright.

I hate arguing this shit as neither of us deal with minimum wage we just split whatever is made. I only argue wages because most businesses don't just do a split which sucks they only split stock but otherwise the employees are just pawns and I feel bad for pawns as they usually have no choice and here I am feeling bad like they should get paid more but who cares it's not my problem. However I will say out of the 1000 decisions Obama has made I hate 999 out them but raising the minimum wage isn't one of him. It's smart on his part he knows billionaires send tax money to Switzerland banks as to keep it tax free and he plans to take in more tax money by raising wages that he knows he can tax because the poor don't send money to Switzerland

as much as I know he is a corrupt ass hole president, I have to respect that he is pretty smart. I mean, he sure can win a game of chess, he isn't dumb


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19370074 - 01/04/14 08:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
When unions get higher wages for their members by restricting entry into an occupation, those higher wages are at the expense of other workers who find their opportunities reduced. When government pays its employees higher wages, those higher wages are at the expense of the taxpayer. But when workers get higher wages and better working conditions through the free market, when they get raises by firm competing with one another for the best workers, by workers competing with one another for the best jobs, those higher wages are at nobody's expense. They can only come from higher productivity, greater capital investment, more widely diffused skills. The whole pie is bigger - there's more for the worker, but there's also more for the employer, the investor, the consumer, and even the tax collector.

That's the way the free market system distributes the fruits of economic progress among all people. That's the secret of the enormous improvements in the conditions of the working person over the past two centuries.




:lol: yes in a perfect world. And of course in some cases this isn't wrong, for example doctors and lawyers. In other cases it isn't applied at all people just come in like mimes on the assembly line and are handed the minimum wage. This is the mistake people keep making that I have to sit here and debate this stupid shit that makes my head hurt. In a perfect world minimum wage would be useless, theoretically. But in this world there isn't enough of an issue of the minimum wage going up at all BRO

in the grand scheme of things it's a minor change either way. Oh well screw it it is what it is I can't just sit here and keep talking about it. I can't imagine it making a huge difference either way it's just retarded to defend it or attack it in my opinion. Neither you nor I have much significant control at all of what happens, and I doubt a wage change will effect either of us in any dramatic way. I certainly don't think it has any impact on "capitalism" or "represents socialism." I mean for all the defence this subject gets, we could be discussing war

And for people who think a guy doesn't deserve to earn a higher "minimum" I sure don't want to start knowing what ya'll think of war. I mean killing is wrong one way or another, I guess I think of wages as my fellow man deserving to earn better. But fuck it who cares if people are poor or starving or getting blown up. I can say this, at least we live in a country lucky enough that we expect a minimum wage not a maximum wage

I mean if you guys are pissed over a minimum I can't imagine what you'd think of a maximum at least we don't live in a communist world so thank god for that. Do whatever you want with the minimum wage I couldn't give a fuck remove it and pay people $2 because they don't mind working for it. I had this conversation with my 80 year old grandma today from a different era and she says she already pays a gardner $100 a day to come for one day every two weeks and honestly can't imagine complaining about someone being paid $64 instead of $56 for the day. And this is coming from an old woman who lived in an extremely conservative time telling me I'm ridiculous to even argue this retarded shit. So I actually apologize, for getting involved in a discussion so useless and stupid with such little real impact on anything that will just lead to a dead end and more closed thinking

good luck


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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