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Offlineseminoob
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best substrate besides poo?
    #19368937 - 01/04/14 03:53 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

I am currently growing on popcorn, when I get the extra cash ill be going back to rye berries, so beside horse poo, what would be the best substrate to grow on? I usually put down some wet verm on the bottom then my colonized seeds then cased with 50/50 peat and verm, I read a lot on here bout coconut coir, and notahacker420 has a pic of a monster pe grown on coir, so is it safe to assume that coir is one of the better choices for best results?


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InvisibleChinChiller
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: seminoob]
    #19368941 - 01/04/14 03:53 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Coir is an excellent choice


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: seminoob]
    #19368943 - 01/04/14 03:54 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

yep if hacker did it then it's gold:thumbup:
:whathesaid:


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


Edited by cronicr (01/04/14 10:51 PM)


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Offlineseminoob
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: cronicr]
    #19369064 - 01/04/14 04:25 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

would horse poo be better? I have a friend with a horse farm with 7 or 8 horses, and she has a huge pile of shit that's been getting leached for years, but I cant access it till the spring, so for now ill go with coir but in the spring when I can get to the horse poo, would I be better off going with the poo or sticking with coir?


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: seminoob]
    #19369096 - 01/04/14 04:30 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

field aged horse manure the piled stuff is basicly composted


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisibleJosh.0
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: seminoob]
    #19369135 - 01/04/14 04:38 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

cubes will grow on anything really,cigarette butts,bras,bibles,you name it and its been done
cubensis evolved on manure over millions of years so thats what they like the best..not coconuts..think about it for a minute..
tho if you have both coir&manure use them together :thumbup:


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Offlineseminoob
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: Josh.0]
    #19369191 - 01/04/14 04:50 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

cool, I gotcha. I appreciate it guys. I always got a shitload of cigarette butts. in the spring ill definetly be trying it coir and poo and poo alone. ill be sure to post the pics when done.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: seminoob]
    #19369546 - 01/04/14 06:07 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

just try the coir for now lol or maybe the coir and manure


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: Josh.0]
    #19369821 - 01/04/14 07:03 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Josh.0 said:
cubes will grow on anything really,cigarette butts,bras,bibles,you name it and its been done
cubensis evolved on manure over millions of years so thats what they like the best..not coconuts..think about it for a minute..
tho if you have both coir&manure use them together :thumbup:



They didn't evolve to grow on brown rice either yet I've never seen a BRF cake outperformed by a manure cake made the same way.


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Offlineseminoob
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: Kizzle]
    #19369989 - 01/04/14 07:37 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

I get excellent results from brf as far as production, but as for potency Iv always got better results from rye berries, whether grown directly on the rye berries or rye berries to bulk. I know everyone says the substrate doesn't matter, but I have certainly noticed better potency with rye.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: seminoob]
    #19369995 - 01/04/14 07:38 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

:huxleyfacepalm:
facepalms across the board tonight, time to go get high:thumbup:


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: cronicr]
    #19370003 - 01/04/14 07:39 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

lol gl and keep me posted sn:cool:


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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Offlineblueconfusion
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: seminoob]
    #19370010 - 01/04/14 07:41 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

i like coir and verm or hpoo and straw, both have worked well for me


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InvisibleMudaFuka
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: blueconfusion]
    #19370311 - 01/04/14 09:11 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

I use coir/verm and can't see myself using anything else any time soon. At least for cubes any way.


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AMU
Bottle Tek
Liquid Inoculant Tek                                   
                     


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Offlinetripdawg420
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: MudaFuka]
    #19370536 - 01/04/14 10:14 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

MudaFuka said:
I use coir/verm and can't see myself using anything else any time soon. At least for cubes any way.



me to :thumbup:


--------------------
HUSTLER
How U Survive This Life Everyday Resourcefully
epic GT mono tub
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17277772

wbs tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11525679
coir tek
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11917410
results :thumbup:


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Offlineseminoob
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: cronicr]
    #19375386 - 01/06/14 12:16 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

I knew I would get at least one of these responses. I know the pros say that substrate doesn't matter as far as potency, and I certainly am not arguing with the pros, when I said that I get better potency from rye berries than I do from brf, that's just my personal opinion based on my personal experience, wich isn't a whole lot. (thought id clear that up so I don't sound like just another jerkoff)


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: seminoob]
    #19375544 - 01/06/14 01:37 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

:rockon: no worries bro! you said it your self so i didn't jump on ya too bad lol
Quote:

seminoob said:
I know everyone says the substrate doesn't matter,




--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: Kizzle]
    #19376219 - 01/06/14 08:12 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

seminoob said:
I always got a shitload of cigarette butts.



Please don't eat mushrooms grown from toxin-ridden synthetics.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


Edited by Violet (01/06/14 08:33 AM)


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: Violet]
    #19376237 - 01/06/14 08:17 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

I planted a cactus within some dried while moss.. keeping the roots wet and airy..


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And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: Icyus]
    #19376259 - 01/06/14 08:23 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

What?
Your post is not only unrelated to this thread but off-topic for this forum.
(I like your sig though)


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: Violet]
    #19376264 - 01/06/14 08:24 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

I meant to say.. maybe mix some moss into the blend?


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: Icyus]
    #19376300 - 01/06/14 08:33 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

seminoob said:
I get excellent results from brf as far as production, but as for potency Iv always got better results from rye berries, whether grown directly on the rye berries or rye berries to bulk.
I know everyone says the substrate doesn't matter, but I have certainly noticed better potency with rye.



Not everyone.

Think about it for a moment - people say that it "doesn't matter", but if they were speaking scientifically or at least objectively they would say that it "hasn't mattered" to them or better yet that they "haven't observed a difference"

Failing to observe a difference, or to think that a difference doesn't matter, does NOT necessarily mean there's no difference to be observed.  It's just as likely to mean that the observer isn't paying in-depth attention or even moreso that what they're observing has brought haze to the matter observed.

In grow terms, by that I mean, that multi culture variance and other inherent variables has 'thrown them off the trail' of noticing differences, and they just figure that it must mean differences are small, which although likely true is certainly not at all helpful, simply passively half-knowledgeable.

Also it's probable that their grow techniques may reduce the ability for differences to show.  By that I'm referring specifically to "bulk" techniques, and I include PF-tek in "bulk"-style due to the low ratio of ground grain ingredient to non-nutritional verm watermass.
The dilution of grain's power into low-nutrient watermass provides what I've referred to as "playing-field leveling traits" which is helpful in some ways but also acts as a buffer to potency I believe, slightly lowering the cap of how strong mushies can be due to the massive exponential amount of mycelium living off of the same input grains.  The tiny bits of brf in no-nutrient verm would exacerbate this even more, leading to many people's experiences of the potency being least assured from PFtek.


But remember, you're considering "brf"s potency but what you really mean is PFteks potency.  BRF used in different ways, such as the ways I use it, is just as capable as any other grain (if not more).


Your better experience with rye is likely due to using whole grains at a nice fat ratio.
If you used whole grain rice in the same techniques you'd see the same results (maybe even slightly better...?)


The techniques I use to grow use ONLY the grains as substrate.  So the only variable I have to isolate in order to objectively compare potency is Genetics, of which I always use isolated genetics on full grow-outs.
Without the playing-field-leveling traits of "bulks" and the haze it brings to perceptibility, I'm able to observe the differences that come from various grains, and let me tell you that they're not all the same.  My best and strongest results have been from grass seed and brown rice.




So the question, "best substrate besides poo?"
Let's ask instead, "best substrate besides grains?", because even amongst grains there are some slightly better than others (regardless of if any potency-apathetic 'pros' don't care to pay mind)


But I challenge the notion that manure is the best 'bulk' substrate anyway.
... based on this general idea of Kizzle's:
Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

Josh.0 said:
cubensis evolved on manure over millions of years so thats what they like the best..not coconuts..think about it for a minute...



They didn't evolve to grow on brown rice either yet I've never seen a BRF cake outperformed by a manure cake made the same way.



Do people think Cubensis has been growing from stores of cow patties in farmer's fields since the dawn of the species? Bogus.
Certainly Cubie is one of the mushroom species most suited to fill the large niche created by human's livestocking, and this is how we came to know the organism best, but that doesn't mean that manure is the best substrate.

Cubensis eats GRASS and their GRAINS.  Manure is digested grass-grain mixture.  Cubensis would have a larger and stronger yield from those grains and grasses BEFORE being eaten by a horse or cow than they would with the leftovers.

Use a certain dry weight of pure manure (and a 1% spawn ratio to inoc since manure is grain-grass mixture) and the same dry weight of Straw with 5-10% grain, and see which gives you better results.
Or better yet, just use straight-up manure against straight-up Hay (attached seeds & all), sterilize and inoc without grains, then see which one has better results.

Whole grasses will beat digested grasses.
Using manure makes Cubensis a Secondary decomposer instead of Primary.


The best "bulk" substrate for Cubensis (second to seed) is the grass that seeds come from.

The best "bulk" substrate for our cultivation purposes is quite a different question.  Straw is not as easy to use, and most of you guys use extremely high "spawn" ratios anyway, so the important part is watermass.  In this regard, coir takes the cake.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: best substrate besides poo? [Re: seminoob]
    #19376350 - 01/06/14 08:44 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

seminoob said:
I knew I would get at least one of these responses. I know the pros say that substrate doesn't matter as far as potency, and I certainly am not arguing with the pros, when I said that I get better potency from rye berries than I do from brf, that's just my personal opinion based on my personal experience, wich isn't a whole lot. (thought id clear that up so I don't sound like just another jerkoff)



When was the last time you used BRF? Like many cultivator I started off the making BRF jars and I was disappointed in their potency. I now do mostly WBS and am happy with the potency.

However, I realize the reason for the difference. For one, typical newb error, I didn't realize the huge difference in weight between dry and cracker dry which I learned later so I thought they were less potent than they really were. Two, my early grows were all multispore. My first potent batch didn't come until I started cloning. Three, although I can speculate about this, my drying technique has changed from long fan/desiccant drying times to shorter heat based drying.

The last time I did BRF jars they were perfectly potent.


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