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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
#19364253 - 01/03/14 04:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The other thing is wouldnt unemployment go up if the minimum wage went up?
I think a $10 min. wage is realistic. but $15 is just too high. lots of employees are not worth $15 an hour.
btw iamachavel i didn't even realize it was you posting i just looked at the post lol I kind of feel like an asshole for being so harsh but yeah. sorry you are struggling
the issue seems really complicated to me
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: morrowasted]
#19364271 - 01/03/14 04:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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If the minimum wage goes up then employers will have to cut costs elsewhere. I have a hunch that the results won't be pretty.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,406
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: morrowasted] 2
#19364274 - 01/03/14 04:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think like most economic principles, there is a sweet spot. no minimum wage is a terrible idea as are no taxes. A high minimum wage is a terrible idea as is a 90% tax rate. You can feel free to disregard anyone who argues for either extreme.
The argument is essentially what the correct, reasonable number is.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
#19364287 - 01/03/14 04:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: I think like most economic principles, there is a sweet spot. no minimum wage is a terrible idea as are no taxes. A high minimum wage is a terrible idea as is a 90% tax rate. You can feel free to disregard anyone who argues for either extreme.
The argument is essentially what the correct, reasonable number is.
maybe it shouldnt be a federal issue since cost of living varies so much by region
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,812
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel] 1
#19364308 - 01/03/14 04:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said:
Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: Some people just aren't worth minimum wage.
No-one other than the employer should decide what wage they will pay. No-one other than the employee should decide what wage they will accept.
People who don't understand the need for a minim wage really need to take a finance class. Then again, these people are probably so biased by their beliefs that they wouldn't believe it even if a nobel prize winner told them.
Pretty much. Morrow Asted wants me to have an un emotionally biased argument to discuss rationality against opinions from other threads such as "why are bums complaining, the streets are paved by the hard working wealthy classes taxes that bums get to sleep on."
Let me just point out that grass is a lot more comfortable to sleep on than asphalt.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,406
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: morrowasted]
#19364313 - 01/03/14 04:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think there should be national standards. Without them, you setup situations where essentially parts of this country are the 3rd world.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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4nik8
I am I Am


Registered: 08/18/13
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
#19364323 - 01/03/14 04:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Fuck money altogether, I say we switch to coupons redeemable for sex. Everyone wants to have sex, hell half the reason people work anyway is because they don't want to be a loser that nobody wants to have sex with. The value of sex is super stable and less likely to fluctuate than a fiat currency.
-------------------- A wise man once told me: "don't sweat the small stuff, it's all small stuff"
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
#19364336 - 01/03/14 04:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I dunno. I understand that in the past no minimum wage resulted in exploitation, but I still feel like there's something to be said for an employer being able to decide what salary he/she wants to offer. If the worker doesn't like it, they're not being forced to take the job. And it would seem only logical that any business offering more favorable wages for workers would attract employees from those businesses offering shitty wages, and so the problem solves itself. 
But what do I know, I'm not an economist.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,406
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
#19364339 - 01/03/14 04:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The minimum wage in Canada is generally >$10.00... With the two currencies floating around parity how the Canadian economy, Patlal?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,812
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal] 1
#19364344 - 01/03/14 04:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You see, capitalism is a wild beast, if left untamed, it will do everything to get stronger without any morals or sympathy.
Laws such as minimum wages are simply meant to tame the beast. Dull its teeth, shorten it's claws. If left untamed, the world would go back to the rich controling the slaves to their benefit.
Certain rules has to be applied in order to make it a game. I any game, a referee is needed to keep the teams honest, otherwise, why would we need a referee?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
#19364346 - 01/03/14 04:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: No, you just failed to take in account the wellbeing of your fellow citizens
Their well-being is their problem and of those who wish to coddle them.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,406
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Last seen: 3 hours, 49 minutes
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: deCypher]
#19364350 - 01/03/14 04:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: I dunno. I understand that in the past no minimum wage resulted in exploitation, but I still feel like there's something to be said for an employer being able to decide what salary he/she wants to offer. If the worker doesn't like it, they're not being forced to take the job. And it would seem only logical that any business offering more favorable wages for workers would attract employees from those businesses offering shitty wages, and so the problem solves itself. 
But what do I know, I'm not an economist.
With no minimum wage, you could write employment contracts that essentially legalized slavery.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,812
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
#19364353 - 01/03/14 04:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: The minimum wage in Canada is generally >$10.00... With the two currencies floating around parity how the Canadian economy, Patlal?
Based on what I read so far, it is generally better than the American economy. The best in the G8 I believe.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
#19364363 - 01/03/14 04:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
deCypher said: I dunno. I understand that in the past no minimum wage resulted in exploitation, but I still feel like there's something to be said for an employer being able to decide what salary he/she wants to offer. If the worker doesn't like it, they're not being forced to take the job. And it would seem only logical that any business offering more favorable wages for workers would attract employees from those businesses offering shitty wages, and so the problem solves itself. 
But what do I know, I'm not an economist.
With no minimum wage, you could write employment contracts that essentially legalized slavery.
You missed my point. It's a free, voluntary contract... meaning that the employer isn't forcing anyone to sign it. Suppose someone does start a business that offers positions starting at $0.01 an hour. If someone wants to, they can work for that company. But somehow, I suspect that a rival business that offers positions more favorable to the worker, say for $8.25 an hour, will attract all the employees over the former company.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: deCypher]
#19364364 - 01/03/14 05:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: deCypher]
#19364367 - 01/03/14 05:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: It's a free, voluntary contract... meaning that the employer isn't forcing anyone to sign it. Suppose someone does start a business that offers positions starting at $0.01 an hour. If someone wants to, they can work for that company. But somehow, I suspect that a rival business that offers positions more favorable to the worker, say for $8.25 an hour, will attract all the employees over the former company.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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myc_check1212
Through Brass



Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
#19364379 - 01/03/14 05:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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This would be better served in political discussion,wait it was, then you got static about it. Yeah pretty sure, that's why you post this thread with loose allusions to the beef. You couldn't hang in a debate with someone so you get all butt hurt and start this. Just like DeButtMachines famous "enlils a god among pedophiles" thread. Similar MO, might you be a puppet?
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: myc_check1212]
#19364384 - 01/03/14 05:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
myc_check1212 said: This would be better served in political discussion,wait it was, then you got static about it. Yeah pretty sure, that's why you post this thread with loose allusions to the beef. You couldn't hang in a debate with someone so you get all butt hurt and start this. Just like DeButtMachines famous "enlils a god among pedophiles" thread. Similar MO, might you be a puppet?
he isnt a puppet
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,812
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 9 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms] 1
#19364385 - 01/03/14 05:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Patlal said: No, you just failed to take in account the wellbeing of your fellow citizens
Their well-being is their problem and of those who wish to coddle them.
Says the extremely indivudualistic American. I don't blame you, Americans are the most individualistic country in the world. By far. While you see this as an advantage, the rest of the world sees it as a heartless way of thinking.
Its sad that the US government managed to spread such strong propaganda during the cold war. Every word that meant helping each other out were demonized and put in the big bad communism section. To the point where altruism is considered to be inherently wrong.
I truly hope for America that one day this selfish way of thinking will stop. It is toxic and makes everybody's lives harder. No longer should social programs = communism. No longer should socialism = communism. Hell communism should be seen as such an evil thing. It just a different way of doing things...
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,812
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 9 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: deCypher]
#19364403 - 01/03/14 05:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
deCypher said: I dunno. I understand that in the past no minimum wage resulted in exploitation, but I still feel like there's something to be said for an employer being able to decide what salary he/she wants to offer. If the worker doesn't like it, they're not being forced to take the job. And it would seem only logical that any business offering more favorable wages for workers would attract employees from those businesses offering shitty wages, and so the problem solves itself. 
But what do I know, I'm not an economist.
With no minimum wage, you could write employment contracts that essentially legalized slavery.
You missed my point. It's a free, voluntary contract... meaning that the employer isn't forcing anyone to sign it. Suppose someone does start a business that offers positions starting at $0.01 an hour. If someone wants to, they can work for that company. But somehow, I suspect that a rival business that offers positions more favorable to the worker, say for $8.25 an hour, will attract all the employees over the former company.
You're free voluntary contract isn't free and voluntary at all! It simply exploits the need for humans to eat to survive. At some point, when money is needed for food and you are starving, you will accept anything even if you consider it unfair. The company offering 8.25 will get all the employees the need. But what about the rest?
Starve any sane man and you will make him agree to anything in exchacnge for food.
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