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Offlineimachavel
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so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now
    #19363979 - 01/03/14 03:37 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

I hear they are going to pay "bums" an extra .30 an hour or some shit

:laugh2:

can you imagine? Pot prices will go up to $50 a 1/16th an ounce, and bums will now use the floor to sleep on.. sleeping on the ground, a luxury provided by achievers who's taxes paved the streets that bums sleep on :lol:








Oh man, does anyone actually buy into this crap? :facepalm:

:whatdoyouthink:


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19363994 - 01/03/14 03:42 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

?


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Confucian]
    #19364084 - 01/03/14 04:07 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19309525/fpart/all

I really don't want to reference other threads, considering it could be considered bringing "beef" into the pub. But just in case I didn't sum up quite clearly the way I see what others think into this thread. Apparently "some people" see minimum wage increases are a way to justify the injustice in this country, of allowing the hard work that the wealthy do, to be raped by the lower class citizens.

For example, let me do a poll, I guess I need a STAL option for those who can't just SAY undecided
Do you think the minimum wage is righteous, and that justice to those who work hard i s served in this country?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (01/03/14 03:07 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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OfflineMisterSandman
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #19364086 - 01/03/14 04:07 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
I hear they are going to pay "bums" an extra .30 an hour or some shit




Why do you consider people who work minimum wage jobs "bums"? At least they are working :shrug:


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: MisterSandman]
    #19364092 - 01/03/14 04:09 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

MisterSandman said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
I hear they are going to pay "bums" an extra .30 an hour or some shit




Why do you consider people who work minimum wage jobs "bums"? At least they are working :shrug:




I don't. I agree. We aren't all gifted with the ability to make "investments." For those who don't have tens of thousands to finance their own business, working hard is as good as it gets.


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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OfflineMisterSandman
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19364101 - 01/03/14 04:10 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

MisterSandman said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
I hear they are going to pay "bums" an extra .30 an hour or some shit




Why do you consider people who work minimum wage jobs "bums"? At least they are working :shrug:




I don't. I agree. We aren't all gifted with the ability to make "investments." For those who don't have tens of thousands to finance their own business, working hard is as good as it gets.




Wait, so then you are saying they are actually going to give homeless people money for nothing?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19364107 - 01/03/14 04:12 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Some people just aren't worth minimum wage.

No-one other than the employer should decide what wage they will pay. No-one other than the employee should decide what wage they will accept.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: MisterSandman] * 4
    #19364109 - 01/03/14 04:12 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

dude, your poll fucking sucks. i have read your poll options like 3 times and i still cant really sort out what position each of them represents with respect to minimum wage laws. you need to remove your emotionally-charged bias if you want legitimate discussion.

anyway i am not sure what i think about this issue but one idea i have heard is eliminating the minimum wage entirely in order to return wage negotiation power to the employee. i don't know if it would work out well, though


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: MisterSandman]
    #19364119 - 01/03/14 04:14 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

MisterSandman said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

MisterSandman said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
I hear they are going to pay "bums" an extra .30 an hour or some shit




Why do you consider people who work minimum wage jobs "bums"? At least they are working :shrug:




I don't. I agree. We aren't all gifted with the ability to make "investments." For those who don't have tens of thousands to finance their own business, working hard is as good as it gets.




Wait, so then you are saying they are actually going to give homeless people money for nothing?



who knows what the fuck this guy is saying? he seems angry about something and he needs to calm down and speak plainly if wants to have a productive discussion


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OfflineMisterSandman
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: MisterSandman]
    #19364123 - 01/03/14 04:16 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

MisterSandman said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

MisterSandman said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
I hear they are going to pay "bums" an extra .30 an hour or some shit




Why do you consider people who work minimum wage jobs "bums"? At least they are working :shrug:




I don't. I agree. We aren't all gifted with the ability to make "investments." For those who don't have tens of thousands to finance their own business, working hard is as good as it gets.




Wait, so then you are saying they are actually going to give homeless people money for nothing?




Oh wait a minute, never mind, I get it. Ummmmm I mean, your pay should be determined on the quality of your work IMO, so I guess I'm kind of against a sweeping minimum wage, ideologically speaking at least.


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OfflineMescalean
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: MisterSandman]
    #19364125 - 01/03/14 04:16 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Have you lived off 7.65 per hour? People who work min wages jobs do the jobs you'd bitch and moan if you had to do them. I see zero problem with raising the min wage.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: morrowasted]
    #19364127 - 01/03/14 04:17 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
speak plainly if wants to have a productive discussion





You'll grow old waiting for that to occur.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineMisterSandman
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Mescalean]
    #19364129 - 01/03/14 04:18 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
Have you lived off 7.65 per hour? People who work min wages jobs do the jobs you'd bitch and moan if you had to do them. I see zero problem with raising the min wage.




Ummm yeah I have, I've worked several minimum wage jobs actually.


--------------------


Edited by MisterSandman (01/03/14 04:18 PM)


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 2
    #19364131 - 01/03/14 04:18 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Some people just aren't worth minimum wage.

No-one other than the employer should decide what wage they will pay. No-one other than the employee should decide what wage they will accept.




And you've just gone back to the 1900s and the entire human history before it.

You do realize that the poor need money in order to by stuff which makes our economy stronger?

People who don't understand the need for a minim wage really need to take a finance class. Then again, these people are probably so biased by their beliefs that they wouldn't believe it even if a nobel prize winner told them.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19364143 - 01/03/14 04:19 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

My county just raised the minimum wage to $8.40, with annual increases to $11.50 in 2017.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Mescalean]
    #19364148 - 01/03/14 04:20 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
Have you lived off 7.65 per hour? People who work min wages jobs do the jobs you'd bitch and moan if you had to do them. I see zero problem with raising the min wage.



I heard some people talking about raising it to $15 though and I think that is just plain ridiculous. Prices would skyrocket, and cost of living would go up, and that would sort of render the whole payraise pointless, wouldn't it? I'm not economist, this is just conjecture on my part.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19364155 - 01/03/14 04:22 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Some people just aren't worth minimum wage.

No-one other than the employer should decide what wage they will pay. No-one other than the employee should decide what wage they will accept.




And you've just gone back to the 1900s and the entire human history before it.

You do realize that the poor need money in order to by stuff which makes our economy stronger?

People who don't understand the need for a minim wage really need to take a finance class. Then again, these people are probably so biased by their beliefs that they wouldn't believe it even if a nobel prize winner told them.




You can find experts on both sides of the fence so your condescension is misplaced.

WTF? Do you think I just got up one morning and decided it's a good day to be against a minimum wage?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19364222 - 01/03/14 04:34 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Some people just aren't worth minimum wage.

No-one other than the employer should decide what wage they will pay. No-one other than the employee should decide what wage they will accept.




And you've just gone back to the 1900s and the entire human history before it.

You do realize that the poor need money in order to by stuff which makes our economy stronger?

People who don't understand the need for a minim wage really need to take a finance class. Then again, these people are probably so biased by their beliefs that they wouldn't believe it even if a nobel prize winner told them.




You can find experts on both sides of the fence so your condescension is misplaced.

WTF? Do you think I just got up one morning and decided it's a good day to be against a minimum wage?




No, you just failed to take in account the wellbeing of your fellow citizens


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19364227 - 01/03/14 04:35 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Some people just aren't worth minimum wage.

No-one other than the employer should decide what wage they will pay. No-one other than the employee should decide what wage they will accept.






People who don't understand the need for a minim wage really need to take a finance class. Then again, these people are probably so biased by their beliefs that they wouldn't believe it even if a nobel prize winner told them.




Pretty much. Morrow Asted wants me to have an un emotionally biased argument to discuss rationality against opinions from other threads such as "why are bums complaining, the streets are paved by the hard working wealthy classes taxes that bums get to sleep on."

Well, maybe nobody in this country starves, but let me tell you something. If you think that's because of legality, you are wrong. It's not legal to panhandle, it's not legal to loiter and sleep on the side walk. I I work day labour and need food for today and gas and food for tomorrow as well, and I get paid that day but need to pay for a motel, so how does this work? After taxes I get $50 just about, I need to get a motel room(which is hard to find for under $50 all together, and don't reference 80s motel prices), and get food and gas, and have it tomorrow as well, and that's IF I have a car?

And we are COMPLAINING about raising the minimum wage $1? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??!?!?!??

Let's do this, let's wake up and get real. I'm willing to be emotionally unbiased if others are as well. Here is the emotional un bias. Quit walking by crack heads who cause violence and sleep on the streets and bring your emotional hate of the crime ridden poor into this thread. We tried that "free market" crap, and it doesn't work. People don't negotiate "fairly" in business, and don't even act like they do. It's total BS

You want to get real? When the minimum wage goes up to $17 an hour I'm willing to hear your complaints. The idea that:

lower minimum wage = zero unemployment

and higher minimum wage = higher unemployment

Is just total garbage to me. There are lot's of countries without minimum wage that have tons of unemployment problems. In this country the rich have the right to fire whoever they want and still make billions. I don't want to sit here and pretend that it can get any more fair then that. They have ABSOLUTE POWER, the poor don't. A $1 extra an hour is no big deal minimum wage is supposed to meet inflation let me tell you inflation is at it's highest you can sell a painting these days for a hundred million.

I'm tired of technical perspectives giving me the idea to justify the phrase "those bums are sleeping on the streets that hard working millionaires taxes paid for", and really they are half assed perspectives at that. Really using extreme examples and ideology that an "employer" has the rights that an emperor has. No they don't, employers aren't politicians, they are the next people who will hire you. They may be idiots themselves, and aren't granted the same rights as kings and presidents and governors. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. They can deal with it.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: morrowasted]
    #19364240 - 01/03/14 04:37 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Mescalean said:
Have you lived off 7.65 per hour? People who work min wages jobs do the jobs you'd bitch and moan if you had to do them. I see zero problem with raising the min wage.



I heard some people talking about raising it to $15 though and I think that is just plain ridiculous. Prices would skyrocket, and cost of living would go up, and that would sort of render the whole payraise pointless, wouldn't it? I'm not economist, this is just conjecture on my part.




People can "propose" whatever they'd like. Hell they can propose we go nuke Russia and China right now. That doesn't mean it will happen. Do you believe in this democracy that everyone fights so hard to defend that proposals should no longer be acceptable because of extreme case circumstances in which the proposal might lead to, well... maybe $25 an hour minimum wage?

Maybe we should outlaw "proposals" and just have like a socialist dictatorship type of government. Fair enough?


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19364253 - 01/03/14 04:40 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

The other thing is wouldnt unemployment go up if the minimum wage went up?

I think a $10 min. wage is realistic. but $15 is just too high. lots of employees are not worth $15 an hour.

btw iamachavel i didn't even realize it was you posting i just looked at the post lol I kind of feel like an asshole for being so harsh but yeah. sorry you are struggling

the issue seems really complicated to me


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: morrowasted]
    #19364271 - 01/03/14 04:44 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

If the minimum wage goes up then employers will have to cut costs elsewhere.  I have a hunch that the results won't be pretty.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #19364274 - 01/03/14 04:45 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

I think like most economic principles, there is a sweet spot. no minimum wage is a terrible idea as are no taxes. A high minimum wage is a terrible idea as is a 90% tax rate. You can feel free to disregard anyone who argues for either extreme.

The argument is essentially what the correct, reasonable number is.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364287 - 01/03/14 04:48 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I think like most economic principles, there is a sweet spot. no minimum wage is a terrible idea as are no taxes. A high minimum wage is a terrible idea as is a 90% tax rate. You can feel free to disregard anyone who argues for either extreme.

The argument is essentially what the correct, reasonable number is.



maybe it shouldnt be a federal issue since cost of living varies so much by region


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #19364308 - 01/03/14 04:50 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Some people just aren't worth minimum wage.

No-one other than the employer should decide what wage they will pay. No-one other than the employee should decide what wage they will accept.






People who don't understand the need for a minim wage really need to take a finance class. Then again, these people are probably so biased by their beliefs that they wouldn't believe it even if a nobel prize winner told them.




Pretty much. Morrow Asted wants me to have an un emotionally biased argument to discuss rationality against opinions from other threads such as "why are bums complaining, the streets are paved by the hard working wealthy classes taxes that bums get to sleep on."





Let me just point out that grass is a lot more comfortable to sleep on than asphalt.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: morrowasted]
    #19364313 - 01/03/14 04:52 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

I think there should be national standards. Without them, you setup situations where essentially parts of this country are the 3rd world.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offline4nik8
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19364323 - 01/03/14 04:53 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Fuck money altogether, I say we switch to coupons redeemable for sex. Everyone wants to have sex, hell half the reason people work anyway is because they don't want to be a loser that nobody wants to have sex with. The value of sex is super stable and less likely to fluctuate than a fiat currency.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364336 - 01/03/14 04:55 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

I dunno.  I understand that in the past no minimum wage resulted in exploitation, but I still feel like there's something to be said for an employer being able to decide what salary he/she wants to offer.  If the worker doesn't like it, they're not being forced to take the job.  And it would seem only logical that any business offering more favorable wages for workers would attract employees from those businesses offering shitty wages, and so the problem solves itself.  :shrug:

But what do I know, I'm not an economist.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364339 - 01/03/14 04:56 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

The minimum wage in Canada is generally >$10.00... With the two currencies floating around parity how the Canadian economy, Patlal?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #19364344 - 01/03/14 04:56 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

You see, capitalism is a wild beast, if left untamed, it will do everything to get stronger without any morals or sympathy.

Laws such as minimum wages are simply meant to tame the beast. Dull its teeth, shorten it's claws. If left untamed, the world would go back to the rich controling the slaves to their benefit.

Certain rules has to be applied in order to make it a game. I any game, a referee is needed to keep the teams honest, otherwise, why would we need a referee?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19364346 - 01/03/14 04:57 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
No, you just failed to take in account the wellbeing of your fellow citizens




Their well-being is their problem and of those who wish to coddle them.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: deCypher]
    #19364350 - 01/03/14 04:57 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I dunno.  I understand that in the past no minimum wage resulted in exploitation, but I still feel like there's something to be said for an employer being able to decide what salary he/she wants to offer.  If the worker doesn't like it, they're not being forced to take the job.  And it would seem only logical that any business offering more favorable wages for workers would attract employees from those businesses offering shitty wages, and so the problem solves itself.  :shrug:

But what do I know, I'm not an economist.




With no minimum wage, you could write employment contracts that essentially legalized slavery.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364353 - 01/03/14 04:58 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The minimum wage in Canada is generally >$10.00... With the two currencies floating around parity how the Canadian economy, Patlal?




Based on what I read so far, it is generally better than the American economy. The best in the G8 I believe.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364363 - 01/03/14 04:59 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
I dunno.  I understand that in the past no minimum wage resulted in exploitation, but I still feel like there's something to be said for an employer being able to decide what salary he/she wants to offer.  If the worker doesn't like it, they're not being forced to take the job.  And it would seem only logical that any business offering more favorable wages for workers would attract employees from those businesses offering shitty wages, and so the problem solves itself.  :shrug:

But what do I know, I'm not an economist.




With no minimum wage, you could write employment contracts that essentially legalized slavery.




You missed my point.  It's a free, voluntary contract... meaning that the employer isn't forcing anyone to sign it.  Suppose someone does start a business that offers positions starting at $0.01 an hour.  If someone wants to, they can work for that company.  But somehow, I suspect that a rival business that offers positions more favorable to the worker, say for $8.25 an hour, will attract all the employees over the former company.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: deCypher]
    #19364364 - 01/03/14 05:00 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: deCypher]
    #19364367 - 01/03/14 05:00 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
It's a free, voluntary contract... meaning that the employer isn't forcing anyone to sign it.  Suppose someone does start a business that offers positions starting at $0.01 an hour.  If someone wants to, they can work for that company.  But somehow, I suspect that a rival business that offers positions more favorable to the worker, say for $8.25 an hour, will attract all the employees over the former company.




:thumbup:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19364379 - 01/03/14 05:02 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

This would be better served in political discussion,wait it was, then you got static about it. Yeah pretty sure, that's why you post this thread with loose allusions to the beef. You couldn't hang in a debate with someone so you get all butt hurt and start this. Just like DeButtMachines famous "enlils a god among pedophiles" thread. Similar MO, might you be a puppet?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19364384 - 01/03/14 05:03 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
This would be better served in political discussion,wait it was, then you got static about it. Yeah pretty sure, that's why you post this thread with loose allusions to the beef. You couldn't hang in a debate with someone so you get all butt hurt and start this. Just like DeButtMachines famous "enlils a god among pedophiles" thread. Similar MO, might you be a puppet?



he isnt a puppet


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #19364385 - 01/03/14 05:03 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
No, you just failed to take in account the wellbeing of your fellow citizens




Their well-being is their problem and of those who wish to coddle them.




Says the extremely indivudualistic American. I don't blame you, Americans are the most individualistic country in the world. By far. While you see this as an advantage, the rest of the world sees it as a heartless way of thinking.

Its sad that the US government managed to spread such strong propaganda during the cold war. Every word that meant helping each other out were demonized and put in the big bad communism section. To the point where altruism is considered to be inherently wrong.

I truly hope for America that one day this selfish way of thinking will stop. It is toxic and makes everybody's lives harder. No longer should social programs = communism. No longer should socialism = communism. Hell communism should be seen as such an evil thing. It just a different way of doing things...


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: deCypher]
    #19364403 - 01/03/14 05:06 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
I dunno.  I understand that in the past no minimum wage resulted in exploitation, but I still feel like there's something to be said for an employer being able to decide what salary he/she wants to offer.  If the worker doesn't like it, they're not being forced to take the job.  And it would seem only logical that any business offering more favorable wages for workers would attract employees from those businesses offering shitty wages, and so the problem solves itself.  :shrug:

But what do I know, I'm not an economist.




With no minimum wage, you could write employment contracts that essentially legalized slavery.




You missed my point.  It's a free, voluntary contract... meaning that the employer isn't forcing anyone to sign it.  Suppose someone does start a business that offers positions starting at $0.01 an hour.  If someone wants to, they can work for that company.  But somehow, I suspect that a rival business that offers positions more favorable to the worker, say for $8.25 an hour, will attract all the employees over the former company.




You're free voluntary contract isn't free and voluntary at all! It simply exploits the need for humans to eat to survive. At some point, when money is needed for food and you are starving, you will accept anything even if you consider it unfair. The company offering 8.25 will get all the employees the need. But what about the rest?

Starve any sane man and you will make him agree to anything in exchacnge for food.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #19364404 - 01/03/14 05:06 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Minimum wage isn't the problem. People should be more focused on the various forces driving our shitty economy and the devaluation of the dollar though inflation.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal] * 1
    #19364419 - 01/03/14 05:08 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Communism has failed at a record pace everywhere its tried. The only communist regimes left are China,North Korea,Cuba,Venezuela and Belarus. A different way of doing things indeed. Its wrong. Socialism is communist lite and equally insidious.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Mescalean]
    #19364421 - 01/03/14 05:08 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Mescalean said:
Have you lived off 7.65 per hour? People who work min wages jobs do the jobs you'd bitch and moan if you had to do them. I see zero problem with raising the min wage.




stupid assholes never take into account the service industry minimun wage is 2.13 currently. if we dont get tipped we dont get paid.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Aedan]
    #19364426 - 01/03/14 05:09 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

koods said:
With no minimum wage, you could write employment contracts that essentially legalized slavery.




You missed my point.  It's a free, voluntary contract... meaning that the employer isn't forcing anyone to sign it.  Suppose someone does start a business that offers positions starting at $0.01 an hour.  If someone wants to, they can work for that company.  But somehow, I suspect that a rival business that offers positions more favorable to the worker, say for $8.25 an hour, will attract all the employees over the former company.




You're free voluntary contract isn't free and voluntary at all! It simply exploits the need for humans to eat to survive. At some point, when money is needed for food and you are starving, you will accept anything even if you consider it unfair. The company offering 8.25 will get all the employees the need. But what about the rest?




What about them?  There's such a thing called unemployment benefits for those too unfortunate to land minimum-wage jobs, as is.  If they want more than what the government's already handing out to them, they're welcome to work at the company offering $0.01 an hour.  At least it's a job.  :shrug:  Wouldn't mandating a minimum wage mean that such $0.01 jobs would be illegal and cease to exist, meaning that those people who would be at least working for a few extra pennies in this no-minimum-wage scenario no longer have the ability to do so?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


Edited by deCypher (01/03/14 05:15 PM)


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: morrowasted]
    #19364432 - 01/03/14 05:10 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Lots of workers aren't worth $10 either


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364446 - 01/03/14 05:11 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

If you want more than two bucks and tips, try a trade.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19364448 - 01/03/14 05:11 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

fuck minimun wage, im all about income CAPS. no one needs more than 50 fucking million dollars, seriously. and that's generous.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine] * 1
    #19364478 - 01/03/14 05:15 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Yes that's the spirit comrade


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine] * 1
    #19364488 - 01/03/14 05:16 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Patlal, your last two posts are some of your best. :super:

Now, go post your fucking picture in the pic of pubbers thread!


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364504 - 01/03/14 05:18 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

What about them?  There's such a thing called unemployment benefits for those too unfortunate to land minimum-wage jobs, as is.  If they want more than what the government's already handing out to them, they're welcome to work at the company offering $0.01 an hour.



You have no clue how unemployment works, do you?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364521 - 01/03/14 05:20 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

My point was that unemployed people already can get a check from the government.  If they don't want a handout, they're by all means welcome to get out there and have at whatever employers will take them.

I shouldn't have said "more than" in my previous post, my bad.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364522 - 01/03/14 05:20 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
fuck minimun wage, im all about income CAPS. no one needs more than 50 fucking million dollars, seriously. and that's generous.



Someone making that much has no effect on your ability to accumulate wealth. The amount of wealth is not fixed.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: deCypher]
    #19364526 - 01/03/14 05:20 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

koods said:
With no minimum wage, you could write employment contracts that essentially legalized slavery.




You missed my point.  It's a free, voluntary contract... meaning that the employer isn't forcing anyone to sign it.  Suppose someone does start a business that offers positions starting at $0.01 an hour.  If someone wants to, they can work for that company.  But somehow, I suspect that a rival business that offers positions more favorable to the worker, say for $8.25 an hour, will attract all the employees over the former company.




You're free voluntary contract isn't free and voluntary at all! It simply exploits the need for humans to eat to survive. At some point, when money is needed for food and you are starving, you will accept anything even if you consider it unfair. The company offering 8.25 will get all the employees the need. But what about the rest?




What about them?  There's such a thing called unemployment benefits for those too unfortunate to land minimum-wage jobs, as is.  If they want more than what the government's already handing out to them, they're welcome to work at the company offering $0.01 an hour.  At least it's a job.  :shrug:  Wouldn't mandating a minimum wage mean that such $0.01 jobs would be illegal and cease to exist, meaning that those people who would be at least working for a few extra pennies in this no-minimum-wage scenario no longer have the ability to do so?




Well, at least there the unemployment benefits. Another rule meant to make the game fairer.

Historically, humans have been exploited pretty much everywhere. There's been a consensus. People don't like it. Which is why laws have been created to prevent it. It isn't a hard concept to understand. Its societal evolution. It increases the wellbeing of people.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19364535 - 01/03/14 05:22 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Gilgamesh you didn't think your post through.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19364536 - 01/03/14 05:22 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
You missed my point.  It's a free, voluntary contract... meaning that the employer isn't forcing anyone to sign it.  Suppose someone does start a business that offers positions starting at $0.01 an hour.  If someone wants to, they can work for that company.  But somehow, I suspect that a rival business that offers positions more favorable to the worker, say for $8.25 an hour, will attract all the employees over the former company.




You're free voluntary contract isn't free and voluntary at all! It simply exploits the need for humans to eat to survive. At some point, when money is needed for food and you are starving, you will accept anything even if you consider it unfair. The company offering 8.25 will get all the employees the need. But what about the rest?




What about them?  There's such a thing called unemployment benefits for those too unfortunate to land minimum-wage jobs, as is.  If they want more than what the government's already handing out to them, they're welcome to work at the company offering $0.01 an hour.  At least it's a job.  :shrug:  Wouldn't mandating a minimum wage mean that such $0.01 jobs would be illegal and cease to exist, meaning that those people who would be at least working for a few extra pennies in this no-minimum-wage scenario no longer have the ability to do so?




Well, at least there the unemployment benefits. Another rule meant to make the game fairer.

Historically, humans have been exploited pretty much everywhere. There's been a consensus. People don't like it. Which is why laws have been created to prevent it. It isn't a hard concept to understand. Its societal evolution. It increases the wellbeing of people.




I'm all for unemployment benefits.  I think I'm probably against minimum-wage laws, however, as evidenced by my previous arguments--in fact I'm sure I'd have a pretty good basis to argue that they're exploitative of the employer, as a matter of fact.  Care for a rebuttal of my points?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364537 - 01/03/14 05:23 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Patlal, your last two posts are some of your best. :super:

Now, go post your fucking picture in the pic of pubbers thread!




Thank you.

And no, there's been such a hype about the picture that it's up to a point where I don't want to disappoint people.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19364540 - 01/03/14 05:23 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

:rolleyes:


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364542 - 01/03/14 05:24 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
Gilgamesh you didn't think your post through.



I did though I do not agree with your assessment that the amount of wealth  someone can accumulate should be limited.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19364547 - 01/03/14 05:24 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Unemployment is at 99 weeks plus and currently in talks to go longer. Wait a minute, I made a mistake thinking I could have real talk here.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal] * 2
    #19364550 - 01/03/14 05:25 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
No, you just failed to take in account the wellbeing of your fellow citizens




Their well-being is their problem and of those who wish to coddle them.




Says the extremely indivudualistic American. I don't blame you, Americans are the most individualistic country in the world. By far. While you see this as an advantage, the rest of the world sees it as a heartless way of thinking.

Its sad that the US government managed to spread such strong propaganda during the cold war. Every word that meant helping each other out were demonized and put in the big bad communism section. To the point where altruism is considered to be inherently wrong.

I truly hope for America that one day this selfish way of thinking will stop. It is toxic and makes everybody's lives harder. No longer should social programs = communism. No longer should socialism = communism. Hell communism should be seen as such an evil thing. It just a different way of doing things...




And I truly hope that someday you realize that not believing in a minimum wage is not the same as being selfish.

I don't pay minimum. I won't hire someone who is only worth minimum.

I'm simply able to realize that there are those people and those jobs... that are not worth minimum as it stands. There are business owners who don't make much more than minimum when you figure in all their hours. Raise the minimum and those people will:
A. Raise prices for us all, partially (at least) negating the increase.
b. Lay off those they can no longer afford.
C. Prevent new hires (for at least the current time).

There will always be those that rise. There will always be those who fall. Paying someone more than they are worth helps a small few at the expense of many others.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364559 - 01/03/14 05:26 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
Gilgamesh you didn't think your post through.




youre one to talk


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364562 - 01/03/14 05:26 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I think there should be national standards. Without them, you setup situations where essentially parts of this country are the 3rd world.




So you'd pay the guy in the country the same as the guy in the city?

Why do you hate the guy in the city?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19364564 - 01/03/14 05:27 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Says the extremely indivudualistic American. I don't blame you, Americans are the most individualistic country in the world. By far. While you see this as an advantage, the rest of the world sees it as a heartless way of thinking.

Its sad that the US government managed to spread such strong propaganda during the cold war. Every word that meant helping each other out were demonized and put in the big bad communism section. To the point where altruism is considered to be inherently wrong.

I truly hope for America that one day this selfish way of thinking will stop. It is toxic and makes everybody's lives harder. No longer should social programs = communism. No longer should socialism = communism. Hell communism should be seen as such an evil thing. It just a different way of doing things...




And I truly hope that someday you realize that not believing in a minimum wage is not the same as being selfish.

I don't pay minimum. I won't hire someone who is only worth minimum.

I'm simply able to realize that there are those people and those jobs... that are not worth minimum as it stands. There are business owners who don't make much more than minimum when you figure in all their hours. Raise the minimum and those people will:
A. Raise prices for us all, partially (at least) negating the increase.
b. Lay off those they can no longer afford.
C. Prevent new hires (for at least the current time).

There will always be those that rise. There will always be those who fall. Paying someone more than they are worth helps a small few at the expense of many others.




I have a feeling most people who advocate for raising the minimum wage are only thinking of those poor, poor impoverished workers who deserve a higher paycheck to match the increased cost of living ....... FAIR POINTS, no contest ....... but are ignoring the inevitable consequences of such a raise, which luvdemshrooms lucidly demonstrated.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19364576 - 01/03/14 05:29 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

I simple think that we all only have so much time on this earth. no one HAS to live in poverty, we just choose to allow it because it was what we're taught. the status quo will never change, and that's why i think all these filthy ass rich MF'ers don't need more than 50 million dollars.

if you think it's okay that walmart is allowed to pay a lower minimun wage in DC while the workers are barely able to make ends meat, you're a sick fucker.

@gilgamesh


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OfflineNova

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Aedan]
    #19364580 - 01/03/14 05:29 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

I believe the economy is a self balancing system.  If there is a country of people where a large majority work for unlivable wages, the cost of living will be forced to drop. Rich people who make money off owning land can't make any money if everyone is too poor to pay the going rate, so he is forced to drop his rates. Same with other necessities.

You have a lot of young people who are faced with either getting a lot of schooling done, busting their ass, and knowing a lot of people which can land them a salaried, 40k+/y job or getting a min wage service job. The middle class we saw in older generations is eroding down to nothing due to globalization/mechinazation.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364590 - 01/03/14 05:31 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
if you think it's okay that walmart is allowed to pay a lower minimun wage in DC while the workers are barely able to make ends meat, you're a sick fucker.




Lower than what?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364596 - 01/03/14 05:31 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

You have to have had a job to get unemployment, and the benefits only last a set amount of time.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364603 - 01/03/14 05:32 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
the benefits only last a set amount of time.




:laugh2:

Congress keeps extending the time. They will again in a week or two as Dems pander and Reps cower.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19364605 - 01/03/14 05:32 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

koods said:
I think there should be national standards. Without them, you setup situations where essentially parts of this country are the 3rd world.




So you'd pay the guy in the country the same as the guy in the city?

Why do you hate the guy in the city?




Were talking about the MINIMUM wage. Most places that aren't shitholes in this country already require a higher minimum wage than the federal rate.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19364611 - 01/03/14 05:33 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
if you think it's okay that walmart is allowed to pay a lower minimun wage in DC while the workers are barely able to make ends meat, you're a sick fucker.




Lower than what?




I stopped following the story, but this is my understand as of december last year.

*There are currently 0 wal-marts in DC, and wal-mart wanted to open two.

*Wal-mart demanded that they pay a lower minimun wage that the legal minimun wage in DC

*DC said no and wal-mart said fine we don't open any stores.

*After confirming that Wally world could go fuck itself, DC caved in

*There are now 2 wal-marts opening in the district.


---

Those were the details I understood.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364613 - 01/03/14 05:34 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Great. Except you can have vastly different expenses in the same city/county/state.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19364616 - 01/03/14 05:34 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
No, you just failed to take in account the wellbeing of your fellow citizens




Their well-being is their problem and of those who wish to coddle them.




Says the extremely indivudualistic American. I don't blame you, Americans are the most individualistic country in the world. By far. While you see this as an advantage, the rest of the world sees it as a heartless way of thinking.

Its sad that the US government managed to spread such strong propaganda during the cold war. Every word that meant helping each other out were demonized and put in the big bad communism section. To the point where altruism is considered to be inherently wrong.

I truly hope for America that one day this selfish way of thinking will stop. It is toxic and makes everybody's lives harder. No longer should social programs = communism. No longer should socialism = communism. Hell communism should be seen as such an evil thing. It just a different way of doing things...




And I truly hope that someday you realize that not believing in a minimum wage is not the same as being selfish.

I don't pay minimum. I won't hire someone who is only worth minimum.

I'm simply able to realize that there are those people and those jobs... that are not worth minimum as it stands. There are business owners who don't make much more than minimum when you figure in all their hours. Raise the minimum and those people will:
A. Raise prices for us all, partially (at least) negating the increase.
b. Lay off those they can no longer afford.
C. Prevent new hires (for at least the current time).

There will always be those that rise. There will always be those who fall. Paying someone more than they are worth helps a small few at the expense of many others.




If the owners do not make more than minimum salary after all the advantages they get from being in business, the message is clear. Either the guy is a shitty manager or his business plan is not viable.

Of course it has an effect on the workforce. But in the end at it does is it shifts the wealth around a little. When the minimum salary is raised, it takes a few bucks from the rich and it gives it to the poor. So technically, it's a small solution to the ever increasing problem of wealth inequality. It allows these people to pay the rent to their landlord. Imagine if the minimum salary was never raised and inflation was kept at the same paste? There would be no money make anywhere. Apartments would be dirt cheap (the landlord would make no cash). Food would need to be dirt cheap too (what's the point of having products you can't sell cause its too expensive)? The end result would be that everybody would be poorer.

A strong economy is based on how rich your poorest citizens are. Because like it or not they are the majority.


--------------------


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364638 - 01/03/14 05:36 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
if you think it's okay that walmart is allowed to pay a lower minimun wage in DC while the workers are barely able to make ends meat, you're a sick fucker.




Lower than what?




I stopped following the story, but this is my understand as of december last year.

*There are currently 0 wal-marts in DC, and wal-mart wanted to open two.

*Wal-mart demanded that they pay a lower minimun wage that the legal minimun wage in DC

*DC said no and wal-mart said fine we don't open any stores.

*After confirming that Wally world could go fuck itself, DC caved in

*There are now 2 wal-marts opening in the district.


---

Those were the details I understood.




Clearly you never actually started following the story. If you had you know that the city tried to pass a law that would force businesses with over a certain square footage pay a minimum substantially higher that other businesses. Amazingly enough the only businesses that would have been affected by this law was Walmart.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364643 - 01/03/14 05:37 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Correct, no body has to live in poverty. If only there were a country with defined roles of government and guaranteed rights of the citizen, with a free market capitalist system, where as long as a worker has discipline and a work ethic he can hey ahead of the heard...


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19364646 - 01/03/14 05:37 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

you are so intelligent


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19364650 - 01/03/14 05:38 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
If the owners do not make more than minimum salary after all the advantages they get from being in business, the message is clear. Either the guy is a shitty manager or his business plan is not viable.




I see you've never started a business. Many struggle for years before becoming truly profitable.

Your lack of knowledge about business is laughable.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinekoods
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19364655 - 01/03/14 05:39 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Actually, they tried to pass a minimum wage that was about 4 dollars higher, and the way the law was worded, would only apply to walmart.

DC did raise their minimum wage afterwards, however to around $12 by 2017 in conjunction with Montgomery and PG counties in MD.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364656 - 01/03/14 05:39 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
you are so intelligent




Yup. Plus... I pay attention.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19364665 - 01/03/14 05:41 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
you are so intelligent




Yup. Plus... I pay attention.




given most of your posts you actually have a feedback loop of thinking your thoughts are the only important ones.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364667 - 01/03/14 05:41 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Actually, they tried to pass a minimum wage that was about 4 dollars higher, and the way the law was worded, would only apply to walmart.

DC did raise their minimum wage afterwards, however to around $12 by 2017 in conjunction with Montgomery and PG counties in MD.




It's good to see I'm not the only one who follows the news.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364672 - 01/03/14 05:42 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
you are so intelligent




Yup. Plus... I pay attention.




given most of your posts you actually have a feedback loop of thinking your thoughts are the only important ones.




Often enough... they are.

Done with your butthurt for tonight or shall we go a few more posts?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19364677 - 01/03/14 05:43 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

If you want more than min wage have a fucking skill or trade worth the money


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19364679 - 01/03/14 05:43 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

DC doesn't need a fucking walmart. Fucking trash company. The mayor should have signed the law just to keep it walmart out of the city. You can alway go to Alexandria.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19364681 - 01/03/14 05:44 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

luv is pretty much a red bastard, its confirmed. i imagine kids really dont like you so much.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19364682 - 01/03/14 05:44 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
If you want more than min wage have a fucking skill or trade worth the money




Bingo.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364688 - 01/03/14 05:45 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
luv is pretty much a red bastard, its confirmed. i imagine kids really dont like you so much.




Actually, luv gives freely but doesn't like being told by the tools in Washington how to be a good lil' fella.

Since you're not done... :rofl:


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (01/03/14 05:45 PM)


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364699 - 01/03/14 05:46 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
i imagine kids really dont like you so much.




I see your imagination is as piss poor as your knowledge of semi-current events that you "started" following.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19364708 - 01/03/14 05:47 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
If you want more than min wage have a fucking skill or trade worth the money




Bingo.




thank you, fucking commies


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19364713 - 01/03/14 05:48 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

With that I'm out of here, getting a little RED


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19364758 - 01/03/14 05:56 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
If the owners do not make more than minimum salary after all the advantages they get from being in business, the message is clear. Either the guy is a shitty manager or his business plan is not viable.




I see you've never started a business. Many struggle for years before becoming truly profitable.

Your lack of knowledge about business is laughable.




Giving that I have two dimplomas in business, I would say that if you don't plan to borrow enough money to give yourself a decent salary for the time that your business becomes profitable, you are an idiot for one and if you don't manage to turn a profit at the time you predicted you would, then you either didn't work hard enough, you weren't good at it or your business is simply not viable.

If you start a business that requires 0 capital and expect to make a 50k loss the first year, a 25k loss the 2nd year then break even on the 3rd year. You need to borrow 75k + the salary you want to give yourself. I would suggest 25k per year. So you need a loan that'll provide sufficient money for you to be alive in order to operate the business. Which in this case would be 125k + the interest. So lets say 140k.

But my best tip is: don't start a business that won't be profitable. Otherwise you'll have to sell shares to investors and dilute your shares.


--------------------


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19364784 - 01/03/14 06:00 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
With that I'm out of here, getting a little RED




i try really hard sometimes to have patience. if you ever talk to luv on the news forums he just acts like an ass. this was it. you ask me a question, im going to answer you, don't berate me for something that was genuine.

koods gets it. anyways moving on.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal] * 4
    #19364791 - 01/03/14 06:01 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Better pro-tip: Don't imagine that your two degrees are better than (or even as good as) actual experience.

I repeat... your knowledge of business is laughable. If you were so omnipotent that you can forsee every twist and turn a business takes... you'd be a successful human with your own profitable business.

Of course someone who is half as smart as you seem to think you are would know that not everyone borrows money to start their business. Some *gasp* actually do it with savings.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364798 - 01/03/14 06:03 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
With that I'm out of here, getting a little RED




i try really hard sometimes to have patience. if you ever talk to luv on the news forums he just acts like an ass. this was it. you ask me a question, im going to answer you, don't berate me for something that was genuine.

koods gets it. anyways moving on.




Yes. You're really trying.

But not trying hard enough. If you did you'd have noticed he was laughing at you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19364956 - 01/03/14 06:34 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
If you want more than min wage have a fucking skill or trade worth the money




See that's the problem though. Say the minimum wage goes up $3. Does anyone think that some one who has skills/experience/schooling and makes say $24 an hour now, will get any kind of a raise when that happens? Don't think so, but the prices on shit will be going up, we all know that. So pretty much that person who earned his way to make that $24 an hour, just got shafted by no fault of his own.

You're not supposed work a minimum wage job all your life. That's where most teens start building their skills. That's why they pay you shit because you have very little "real world" skill value. If you're still working a minimum wage job when you're 40 and you're not handicapped or whatever, something is wrong :shrug:


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: lets drive around]
    #19364970 - 01/03/14 06:36 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

If you want a world where everyone is in a union, go ahead and get rid of the minimum wage.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: lets drive around]
    #19364974 - 01/03/14 06:37 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

ITT no one wants to talk about the greed the american system has in capitalism. talk about an income cap and everyone get's all confused.

im just trying to regulate the greed here.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19364999 - 01/03/14 06:40 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

I don't think an upper limit makes sense, but we should certainly be taxing everything above a certain amount (10 million, let's say) at 50-60%


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: lets drive around]
    #19365013 - 01/03/14 06:42 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

IT'S QUITE OBVIOUS THAT WITHOUT MINIMUM WAGE AND U HAD TO BARTER WITH EMPLOYERS THEY'D ALWAYS CHOOSE THE EMPLOYEE WITH THE LOWEST PRICE. IF MINIMUM WAGE WAS UP EMPLOYERS WOULD SLASH EMPLOYEES IN AN ATTEMPT TO MAINTAIN THEIR PROFITS. THE MINIMUM WAGE SHOULD BE IN THE SWEET SPOT AND IT WILL BE DIFFERENT DEPENDING ON UR LOCATION. MINIMUM WAGE SHOULD BE IN THE HANDS OF MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT OR STATE. NOT FEDERAL.


--------------------
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Mad Season]
    #19365032 - 01/03/14 06:45 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

holy shit get off the speed bro.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19365048 - 01/03/14 06:47 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
holy shit get off the speed bro.




He's obviously a capitalist.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19365077 - 01/03/14 06:52 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Better pro-tip: Don't imagine that your two degrees are better than (or even as good as) actual experience.

I repeat... your knowledge of business is laughable. If you were so omnipotent that you can forsee every twist and turn a business takes... you'd be a successful human with your own profitable business.

Of course someone who is half as smart as you seem to think you are would know that not everyone borrows money to start their business. Some *gasp* actually do it with savings.




Same principle, no banks involved. That's all.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19365120 - 01/03/14 06:59 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
fuck minimun wage, im all about income CAPS. no one needs more than 50 fucking million dollars, seriously. and that's generous.



Seriously. CEO's don't do shit all day long except maybe talk on the phone and negotiate shit. All they do is go to tahiti, maybe sign some papers and shit, and that's pretty much it. You think this is worth 9,000 times more than the little minion doing the WORK that needs to get done in order for the ceo to be able to take vacations every day?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19365136 - 01/03/14 07:02 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Better pro-tip: Don't imagine that your two degrees are better than (or even as good as) actual experience.

I repeat... your knowledge of business is laughable. If you were so omnipotent that you can forsee every twist and turn a business takes... you'd be a successful human with your own profitable business.

Of course someone who is half as smart as you seem to think you are would know that not everyone borrows money to start their business. Some *gasp* actually do it with savings.




Same principle, no banks involved. That's all.




:rofl2:

Of course it is.

Dude, your not a bad guy but gain some actual business experience before attempting to lecture those that have it.

There are far more reasons a business can fail other than they didn't borrow enough money.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: morrowasted]
    #19365137 - 01/03/14 07:02 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
The other thing is wouldnt unemployment go up if the minimum wage went up?

I think a $10 min. wage is realistic. but $15 is just too high. lots of employees are not worth $15 an hour.

btw iamachavel i didn't even realize it was you posting i just looked at the post lol I kind of feel like an asshole for being so harsh but yeah. sorry you are struggling

the issue seems really complicated to me




:lol: I don't give a fuck :lolwut: it's the internet dude. Just because we've spoken I assumed you'd be an a hole online just like K... er.. ZappaisGod. If you spoke to Zappaisgod you'd be astonished he says all the crap he says. Out of all these i net weirdos he is probably one of the few people here who has met literally over 50 shroomery members and actually in real life he pays his employees like $17 an hour, I'm very surprised at his attitude towards the minimum wage. But eh whatever

To address your question I have a hard time corroborating that a higher minimum wage = higher unemployment. I think that is an excuse companies use all the time to basically just fire people. For example when Bush left office the unemployment rate was 12% and minimum wage was $5.65 an hour. Now the unemployment rate is 7% and the minimum wage over $7.00 an hour. I agree $15 sounds ridiculous, I was thinking $8 or $8.75. I know we are talking bare minimum but I think it's fair to say a person should be able to get paid $64 bare minimum by the day which is what the income people make comes out to after tax deduction. That of course sucks, but that is a different barrel all together, high tax rates, you can hardly blame a wage increase on that.


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: occollegeboi]
    #19365144 - 01/03/14 07:03 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

occollegeboi said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
fuck minimun wage, im all about income CAPS. no one needs more than 50 fucking million dollars, seriously. and that's generous.



Seriously. CEO's don't do shit all day long except maybe talk on the phone and negotiate shit. All they do is go to tahiti, maybe sign some papers and shit, and that's pretty much it. You think this is worth 9,000 times more than the little minion doing the WORK that needs to get done in order for the ceo to be able to take vacations every day?




the sad part is no one wants to even think about the implications of having a truly free society, free from debt and poverty. they would just rather call me a faggot.

:foreverbatman:


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19365147 - 01/03/14 07:04 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Or point out the myriad of ways in which you're wrong.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19365171 - 01/03/14 07:09 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

No,
I've seen it.

People literally hand out upper level jobs to their friends and accomplices making 300,000 a year to sit on facebook and tell people what to do, until everyone that worked there before is gone, the company is in obscurity and their are sodomites running around planning their next dinner half way across the country.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19365175 - 01/03/14 07:09 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
holy shit get off the speed bro.




He's obviously a capitalist.




LOL oh my god ha


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Konyap]
    #19365179 - 01/03/14 07:10 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

we've established luv is a red bastard (aka a communist) so just ignore him, he's ignorant. not arrogant mind you, ignorant.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: morrowasted]
    #19365213 - 01/03/14 07:16 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

koods said:
I think like most economic principles, there is a sweet spot. no minimum wage is a terrible idea as are no taxes. A high minimum wage is a terrible idea as is a 90% tax rate. You can feel free to disregard anyone who argues for either extreme.

The argument is essentially what the correct, reasonable number is.



maybe it shouldnt be a federal issue since cost of living varies so much by region




That is interesting. Funny enough I hate to rely on the states for very long, as they seem pretty half assed about what they really care about the wage increase. Remember government only gives a shit about itself, if it does something it does it for itself. States don't seem to benefit from income taxes regarding pay checks since the federal government taxes that section. They would only raise the minimum wage if they thought they could get something out of it, then come up with a "reason for the people" sort of thing, just like the democrats. I hate the SHIT out of Republicans, but can't see one liberal opposing them for a justifiable reason other then just a person agenda

I think the federal government should raise the minimum wage .20 cents every two years just to keep up with inflation and even out what is considered "livable" nationally. I would prefer to rely on states but you have to admit if one state for example Wyoming paid a person $2.00 an hour and in Washington DC people were getting paid $15 an hour it'd be pretty difficult for everyone living in Wyoming to go anywhere considering that the equivalent of what they make in their state perhaps $500 could possibly buy them a used car, two movie tickets, a case of beer, and pay the utilities or something along those lines :stoned: Then they'd fly to New York and spend $500 on one taxi just driving around for 30 minutes(just an example I don't know the cab rates in New York)

Why do I think prices should be even across the nation? It's not that I strongly support it. I couldn't care less if Wyoming stole all the population moving there because of cheap living that'd be fine with me. But I disagree with abolishing minimum wage and at the same time think it's messed up when one state makes a minimum wage of $15 and then the entire country says "why can't we have that?"

I know the federal minimum wage isn't going away is the issue. So the next best thing? Raise the wage nationally but make it incremental, every two years .20 more an hour. Then at that rate, it'd take 20 years just to go up $2.00. To me that's extremely fair it keeps everyone knowing that inflation is occurring and at the same time it gives other states lot's of leeway to have different wages. I think the biggest issue is when people are sick of their state government and depend on the federal government to do all the work to even out what their state doesn't give two shits about. Then the feds in turn prolong and prolong wage increases until after 15-20 years without a wage increase they realize the mistakes they've made and decide to raise it $3 an hour all at once. Man that's just messed up

Of course another solution to that would be for people to give more of a shit about their state situation and petition their state instead of constantly petitioning the federal government. BUT needless to say you can't escape the federal government for example Colorado wants 100% legal pot, they have it. As long as the feds don't give a shit and stick their noses in because according to them you can still go to prison for just a gram of marijuana

Compromises have to be made. I wish there was no federal government but then we'd have no military we'd depend on the state police to fend us off from the Taliban etc.


--------------------
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19365218 - 01/03/14 07:18 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
we've established luv is a red bastard (aka a communist) so just ignore him, he's ignorant. not arrogant mind you, ignorant.




You do get incredibly butthurt when you're wrong.

Of course, with 25+ people (inc me) on ignore, that's not much of a surprise.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19365226 - 01/03/14 07:19 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
we've established luv is a red bastard (aka a communist) so just ignore him, he's ignorant. not arrogant mind you, ignorant.




you are a tool, what has shrooms said that is remotely communist?! If anything it leans libertarian


--------------------
Lord_Senate: Pedophiles, rapists and everything in between.

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Edited by myc_check1212 (01/03/14 07:30 PM)


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19365240 - 01/03/14 07:23 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

hey bud don't flame in the pub, it's not welcome here.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19365243 - 01/03/14 07:23 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
Quote:

occollegeboi said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
fuck minimun wage, im all about income CAPS. no one needs more than 50 fucking million dollars, seriously. and that's generous.



Seriously. CEO's don't do shit all day long except maybe talk on the phone and negotiate shit. All they do is go to tahiti, maybe sign some papers and shit, and that's pretty much it. You think this is worth 9,000 times more than the little minion doing the WORK that needs to get done in order for the ceo to be able to take vacations every day?




the sad part is no one wants to even think about the implications of having a truly free society, free from debt and poverty. they would just rather call me a faggot.

:foreverbatman:




The most interesting part to me is a country that would rather rely on credit instead of debit. That is just amazing, it's as if I had a bar and said "hey don't worry about ACTUAL CASH I don't accept that I prefer a good line of credit and I'll take that your bank will pay me back"

Of course no one really believes that, if you show enough money anyone will take that over stupid credit anyway. But still you'd almost think twice about it, anyone with half a brain knows you go to buy a car and pay with cash instead of financing you are driving the car out quicker, BUT the way the country goes nuts over credit just astonishes me. Back in the day it was a different story, I was very young (born in the 80s) but my GRANDPARENTS SURE AS HELL remember when people would've hit you in the face with a shovel and shoved red coals up your ass pipe if you tried that credit shit instead of a solid dollar. I mean credit isn't BAD per se, but selling things at credit prices expecting everyone to be good for a loan is just ridiculous to me.

I guess it worked for a long time but to me it's a broken business model, especially on a level when it really matters. Which is where I see financing come in the most anyway :confused: just very strange

Someone was telling me one time "if you go to a third world country, you will see people who own their homes. Sure they may build them out of sheet metal, then out of plywood, then finally tear it down one last time and rebuild it with concrete after generations have passed. But make no mistake they own those homes there, which is something a majority of the population in the U.S. can't claim"

I could only take his word for it not having been to The Philippines or any other third world countries since I was 9 years old. But still that is a very interesting perspective, about U.S. and debt and how prices are driven up by what people are "willing to pay" versus what is practical. Especially when throwing financing into the discussion


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19365251 - 01/03/14 07:25 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
hey bud don't flame in the pub, it's not welcome here.




sorry, was on an OTD rampage for the past two days


--------------------
Lord_Senate: Pedophiles, rapists and everything in between.

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19365254 - 01/03/14 07:25 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I think there should be national standards. Without them, you setup situations where essentially parts of this country are the 3rd world.




Yes this is what I believe in although it does have unfortunate implications


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19365257 - 01/03/14 07:26 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Well, I'm pretty far left politically, but any modern economy would cease to function without credit.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19365267 - 01/03/14 07:27 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
hey bud don't flame in the pub, it's not welcome here.




sorry, was on an OTD rampage for the past two days




it's okay. feel free to flame me over there, i am trying to remain somewhat civil over here lol.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19365271 - 01/03/14 07:28 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Credit is an awesome tool to be used, not abused. Like drugs, abuse it and you deserve full well everything coming to you


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19365279 - 01/03/14 07:29 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
You see, capitalism is a wild beast, if left untamed, it will do everything to get stronger without any morals or sympathy.

Laws such as minimum wages are simply meant to tame the beast. Dull its teeth, shorten it's claws. If left untamed, the world would go back to the rich controling the slaves to their benefit.

Certain rules has to be applied in order to make it a game. I any game, a referee is needed to keep the teams honest, otherwise, why would we need a referee?




similar to how there needs to be a Geneva Convention to regulate war. It's purely retarded "rules for killing people?" Well it doesn't make much sense, but without it we'd all be nuking each other every month the planet would start resembling "one big Arizona", so it's true the beast needs to be tamed, it's teeth dulled, etc.

I hate it too but as long as we have rules we might as well take advantage of them


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19365290 - 01/03/14 07:30 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

I just meant, by definition, with credit comes debt. A debt free economy wouldn't be much of an economy.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19365417 - 01/03/14 07:52 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Only if you fail on the play, but make the call right and you can make a windfall. Business wise that is. With that profit the correct call is pay back creditors and reinvest back in your business.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19365795 - 01/03/14 09:10 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

koods said:
I think there should be national standards. Without them, you setup situations where essentially parts of this country are the 3rd world.




So you'd pay the guy in the country the same as the guy in the city?

Why do you hate the guy in the city?




Why do you hate the guy in the country? Don't I wish everything you said was true. You swear I don't. People work for what they are worth. If only everyone was honest and forthcoming about how much someone's service was worth. If only doctors couldn't charge tens of thousands for a simple surgery, if only a guy who flipped burgers started out at $13 if he proved he did better at it at the last 5 places he flipped burgers and could cook faster then anyone in there, if only rent was only expensive to the SUPER nice places and property tax was virtually nil

Well we don't live in that world. We face a nightmare in this country of epic proportions where prices are sold to the highest lender, and the difference between the price of a candy bar and land is ridiculous by all standards. Sure property is worth more, it has indestructible value compared to the candy bar. But in this day and age a guy in the country can't make shit because everyone is copying the city people. We face an issue where there isn't enough income for people to spend on the moderate businesses and only the wealthiest companies profit. And now that that exists the only real solution is if everyone is paid a little tiny bit more, life is a little better and people spend more. The wealthy companies don't HAVE to hire more people, they are not required to what so ever, they just don't have to.

Depending on only companies with revenue of $500,000,000 or more no matter what their profits are just isn't going to work. You need constantly new and expanding businesses to make this continue to work, so college graduates get jobs.

Now you think on a level practical day to day. I cut a guys lawn, I charge the guy $150. I don't want to pay the person who helps me $75 and split it, he didn't work as hard as me, I only want to pay him $43 which is fair because he accepts it. Well isn't that nice, maybe we can all just get along and play fair? Not going to happen. You need to see this on a bigger level. The smaller level is a minimum wage that is higher blocks out people from ass hole companies that can use it as an excuse to not want to share, whether they can afford it or not. It sucks. On the larger level the lack of monetary equality and the growth of wealth inequality in this country seriously threaten college boy graduate kids who need a first level job that can get them in the door. Right now it looks like those options are going out the door, and so the country is saying "well since they can't get their first time $14 an hour entry level career jobs that are supposed to one day be $40 an hour career jobs, and are flipping burgers, we at least need the students to be able to pay back the loans and spend some money and continue job searching until they get higher up on the ladder, therefore while they are flipping burgers, we will raise the $7.50 burger flipping rate to $8.50

That is about as polite of an answer as I can provide without just being really rude and saying "how can you expect a person to realistically live on $50 fucking dollars a day, do you realize how expensive this country is? That is like $1000 a month, and college graduates who go live in fucking Compton aren't going to be motivated to work harder for better careers in the future"

You make it seem as though logically, I am all about a minimum hand holding wage, which shows co dependence between employer and employee, to which an employee can't bargain a better wage. Well I am not about it, I think it's retarded. But this to me is a worst case scenario situation, people need to grow above the poverty level, $7 an hour is a ridiculous amount of money to live on, despite how nice $1000 a month is as SPENDING MONEY, well that's a different story. But living expenses, health care, rent, clothes, etc. BEYOND the food and t.v. that people enjoy and their iphones, that's just not cutting it.

If we were discussing a perfect world where people were happy to be on a person to person basic level with their employees and allow them to negotiate etc. I'd be all with you. But in corporate America that's often hard to do 95% of employees never meet the person who owns the business, they meet the "employer/manger." I've had the great opportunity to know some of the direct people who owned the business I've worked at quite a few times. I've had the luck to understand this, despite that even at that a lot of bosses were ass holes. But you are just not understanding the nature and direction of the country we live in, and how the inequality between classes is just continuing to grow. Making it REQUIRED that people make a little more money, is perhaps the best course of action we could take right now.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19365819 - 01/03/14 09:14 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
I simple think that we all only have so much time on this earth. no one HAS to live in poverty, we just choose to allow it because it was what we're taught. the status quo will never change, and that's why i think all these filthy ass rich MF'ers don't need more than 50 million dollars.

if you think it's okay that walmart is allowed to pay a lower minimun wage in DC while the workers are barely able to make ends meat, you're a sick fucker.

@gilgamesh




I'd have no problem with the alternative. A wage cap, where no one can make over a few hundred mil in their life. I am assuming that will never happen as people will crawl the walls of the white house fence and fucking start stabbing out peoples eyes in the streets freaking out about the economic implications of such a thing :rolleyes: lol

But in reality I'd find raising the minimum wage a $1 or so a much better alternative. One thing about Americans, we sure don't like to compromise much, I mean people can't expect to have it all. I can't imagine paying someone $65 a day instead of $58 doing much harm, to any except the most lowest small income businesses, which imho maybe are in the process of taking a fucking dive anyway, in which case maybe we need to raise the damn M W to like $9.50 to weed out all the shitty little crack house looking stores that are just sucking up the commercial revenue space.

I mean, who really complains about minimum wage in the first place? The largest companies. More then anyone, and they'll get hurt the least


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19365864 - 01/03/14 09:23 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Well, I'm pretty far left politically, but any modern economy would cease to function without credit.




Well in that case why even argue minimum wage. Just raise the minimum wage to $20 an hour, everyone prospers, and businesses can just "borrow." I mean as long as everyone believes in credit, then I no longer feel any remorse for business owners.

I was assuming we were relating to sad, poor business people, who have no people skills/experience, and only knowledge of a product, and just run a day to day thing sort of sleeping when no one shows up, and how sad their life is when their shit going down the drain spot that is taking up commercial revenue space is about to shut down because they were JUST BARELY GETTING BY paying people $58 a day instead of $67 a day or whatever.

I mean if credit is ok, then perhaps only experienced reliable people should operate businesses? If everyone is feeling bad for the entrepreneurs, well there is no shortage of jobs people can do just on their own, including but not limited to

installing floors
computer development
commission based sales based on warehouse purchasing then shipping to an address after a current customer has purchased a product at a higher value
painting walls
landscaping
hot dog stand
wine making with a liquor license
contract based work
baby sitting
accounting
etc.

No offence of course


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19365904 - 01/03/14 09:30 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

The theory of raising minimum wage and getting rid of welfare was really attractive to me. I am an alternative and independent thinker though, people hate me for it.

What can you do!


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19366111 - 01/03/14 10:15 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

i dont understand the point of inflation. 

They raise min. wage.. All its doing is rendering the dollar more and more worthless.  You inflate min. wage, that means everything else will go up eventually anyways to even out the difference.

The more they inflate, the more our money is completely worthless.

not like it aint already.

Money = tool of enslavement.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: tripp23]
    #19366149 - 01/03/14 10:28 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

the only people responsible for inflation are the feds.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Mad Season]
    #19366157 - 01/03/14 10:30 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
IT'S QUITE OBVIOUS THAT WITHOUT MINIMUM WAGE AND U HAD TO BARTER WITH EMPLOYERS THEY'D ALWAYS CHOOSE THE EMPLOYEE WITH THE LOWEST PRICE. IF MINIMUM WAGE WAS UP EMPLOYERS WOULD SLASH EMPLOYEES IN AN ATTEMPT TO MAINTAIN THEIR PROFITS. THE MINIMUM WAGE SHOULD BE IN THE SWEET SPOT AND IT WILL BE DIFFERENT DEPENDING ON UR LOCATION. MINIMUM WAGE SHOULD BE IN THE HANDS OF MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT OR STATE. NOT FEDERAL.



is english your third language..?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: deCypher]
    #19366214 - 01/03/14 10:47 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
If the minimum wage goes up then employers will have to cut costs elsewhere.  I have a hunch that the results won't be pretty.



well

they will just raise prices

walmart will take massive losses to compete

they'll win

they'll monopolize

we'll all be fucked.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: k00laid]
    #19366404 - 01/03/14 11:44 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
If the minimum wage goes up then employers will have to cut costs elsewhere.  I have a hunch that the results won't be pretty.



well

they will just raise prices

walmart will take massive losses to compete

they'll win

they'll monopolize

we'll all be fucked.




:facepalm:

oh no what will the billionaires do they will have to cut costs. The dollar will go to shit because the value of things will change :flowstone: all those houses for hundreds of thousands of dollars that is about the normal selling price these days will become worthless. $9 an hour will turn into $90 an hour, a sandwich will cost like $200, money will be useless, Donald Trump will have to fire like all his employees



:lolwut:


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Offlineteamkiller
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19366459 - 01/04/14 12:04 AM (10 years, 27 days ago)

didn't read thread.

I wish i could move to one of the socialist utopias where the minimum wage is 20$ an hour, healthcare is free and school is free.

I wish i could move to one of those countries because they're the healthiest, happiest and have the tallest people.

Too bad they don't let foreigners become citizens.


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Invisibleelax420
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: teamkiller]
    #19366547 - 01/04/14 12:50 AM (10 years, 27 days ago)

The language in the OP is so loaded. Its like you aren’t even trying to have a  civil conversation.

Damn dude you act like the rich do everything in this county even though the rich pay less in taxes than middle classes? Explain to me how raising the minimum wage would hurt this class that you most certainly do not belong to, and furthermore why you care?


Personally i think it would be foolish to raise the Federal minimum wage until employment gets better. if the states want to do it, who gives a flying fuck :shrug:
I find it a little ironic that the guys who cry about states rights the most, are opposing something that the states are doing by themselves.





The thing that makes me laugh the most about politics on this site, is that i would assume most the people on this site are white, drug using males, in their 20s, yet they are the most ardent neo-cons around as a whole. WTF? guys...


THE ESTATE TAX IS TYRANICAL, TYRANY I SAY!!!!--while you work at starbucks :rofl:
people vote for politicians that would hurt them in their current economic state, in the very slim hopes that they win the mega lotto and end up not having to pay taxes, like the other uber rich.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine] * 1
    #19367259 - 01/04/14 08:41 AM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
I simple think that we all only have so much time on this earth. no one HAS to live in poverty, we just choose to allow it because it was what we're taught. the status quo will never change, and that's why i think all these filthy ass rich MF'ers don't need more than 50 million dollars.

if you think it's okay that walmart is allowed to pay a lower minimun wage in DC while the workers are barely able to make ends meat, you're a sick fucker.

@gilgamesh



Class envy the hallmark of leftist thought. There is no "free lunch" when the government mandates a minimum wage. If the government requires that certain workers be paid higher wages, then businesses make adjustments to pay for the added costs, such as reducing hiring, cutting employee work hours, reducing benefits, and charging higher prices. Now this doesn't sound like the best way to lift people out of poverty. Leftist economic policies actually create dependence and poverty.


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Offlineqman
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: k00laid]
    #19367313 - 01/04/14 09:09 AM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
If the minimum wage goes up then employers will have to cut costs elsewhere.  I have a hunch that the results won't be pretty.



well

they will just raise prices

walmart will take massive losses to compete

they'll win

they'll monopolize

we'll all be fucked.





Large corporations like Wal-Mart, McDonald's, and Target can afford to pay higher wages, and it wouldn't make any difference except one thing- profit margins.

Now if they didn't already have decent profit margins today, then yes they might attempt to hike prices, whether the higher prices would be sustainable is a different story.


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InvisibleShins
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: qman]
    #19367495 - 01/04/14 10:17 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Hey guys why not make minimum wage $100?  $1000?

dont you see any problems with making minimum wsge $1000 / hour? 

Same problems apply to any amount.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19367505 - 01/04/14 10:19 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Hey guys why not make minimum wage $100?  $1000?

dont you see any problems with making minimum wsge $1000 / hour? 

Same problems apply to any amount.




making the minimum wage $15 vs $1000 is a big difference...

The point is to eliminate welfare i suspect it would make things smoother, but it's just a theory.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins] * 1
    #19367508 - 01/04/14 10:20 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

How is it, that countries where the minimum salary is higher than in the US can still prosper and have higher growth than the US?

:ancientaliens:

It's as if the minimum salary has no extreme effects of raising prices and putting the rich on the streets.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19367517 - 01/04/14 10:25 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Hey guys why not make minimum wage $100?  $1000?

dont you see any problems with making minimum wsge $1000 / hour? 

Same problems apply to any amount.




Yeah I know dude, raising the minimum wage from $7 to $8 has serious implications man, next thing you know the minimum wage will be $1000 an hour. Oh god the horror :zomgwtf:


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19367540 - 01/04/14 10:30 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
How is it, that countries where the minimum salary is higher than in the US can still prosper and have higher growth than the US?

:ancientaliens:

It's as if the minimum salary has no extreme effects of raising prices and putting the rich on the streets.



Unemployment is alot higher in europe bro hmm I wonder why? :wink:


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19367543 - 01/04/14 10:31 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
I simple think that we all only have so much time on this earth. no one HAS to live in poverty, we just choose to allow it because it was what we're taught. the status quo will never change, and that's why i think all these filthy ass rich MF'ers don't need more than 50 million dollars.

if you think it's okay that walmart is allowed to pay a lower minimun wage in DC while the workers are barely able to make ends meat, you're a sick fucker.

@gilgamesh



Class envy the hallmark of leftist thought. There is no "free lunch" when the government mandates a minimum wage. If the government requires that certain workers be paid higher wages, then businesses make adjustments to pay for the added costs, such as reducing hiring, cutting employee work hours, reducing benefits, and charging higher prices. Now this doesn't sound like the best way to lift people out of poverty. Leftist economic policies actually create dependence and poverty.




Too bad for leftist policies. Accountability among corporations certainly wouldn't be the best options, much better to just throw out leftist policies. I mean I heard about this guy the other day, who accidentally hired an employee for 50 hours that work, didn't realize the guys schedule was over 40 hours. When he had to pay the guy over time, man..... he realized his business losses for the week were TREMENDOUS! Had to fire like 5 people right there, and raise his prices from $4 to $6 oh man it was just nuts. :crying:

God help us all :zomgwtf:


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19367554 - 01/04/14 10:32 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
How is it, that countries where the minimum salary is higher than in the US can still prosper and have higher growth than the US?

:ancientaliens:

It's as if the minimum salary has no extreme effects of raising prices and putting the rich on the streets.



Unemployment is alot higher in europe bro hmm I wonder why? :wink:




because of corroborated evidence that the minimum wage put them in this situation? Or because of extreme socialist policies and a lack of returning from a global economic shutdown that the U.S. seems to have recovered from faster?

Which one you think? Think about it real hard


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Offlineqman
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19367555 - 01/04/14 10:33 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
How is it, that countries where the minimum salary is higher than in the US can still prosper and have higher growth than the US?

:ancientaliens:

It's as if the minimum salary has no extreme effects of raising prices and putting the rich on the streets.




It really depends on the economic fundamentals of each individual country, and the amount of available labor.

China has a minimum wage of .75 cents to $1.50 per hour in most parts of the country, why?  2 billion people and a massive pool of labor.

Maybe a country like Sweden can have a much higher minimum wage, a small population (9 million) with a higher educated and skilled workforce.

Why are real wages in the US down for almost 40 years?  Productivity gains and outsourcing of jobs overseas. Globalization has killed the availability of high paying low skilled jobs, that is nothing a minimum wage law can change.

How did my grandparents with no high school education make the equal of $100,000 per year during the 50's and 60's?  Tons of available work and limited amount of labor.


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InvisibleGilgamesh18
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19367556 - 01/04/14 10:34 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Your little story had nothing to do with my overall point.


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Offlineqman
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19367561 - 01/04/14 10:37 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
How is it, that countries where the minimum salary is higher than in the US can still prosper and have higher growth than the US?

:ancientaliens:

It's as if the minimum salary has no extreme effects of raising prices and putting the rich on the streets.



Unemployment is alot higher in europe bro hmm I wonder why? :wink:





"Official unemployment" is higher in Europe, but in reality the US and Euro zone are in the same boat, 22-23% unemployment is most likely the same overall.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: qman]
    #19367655 - 01/04/14 11:17 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

OK, I only read the first page. I am going to simplify my answer on this subject. The rich/people in power/business owners/whatever will not take a cut to their profit, PERIOD!

They want their right to make the money they want to make at any cost no matter what. They could make only 3 billion instead of the 4 billion. Never mind that they still make 3 FUCKING BILLION DOLLARS (or whatever amount) They will not take less EVER! It is their right as a capitalist/business man/American to do so. FUCK everyone else, they got theirs you need to get yours. Pity some people don't have a chance, or do not "work hard" like they do to make it.

It sucks a slimy green asshole from a carcass. It is a fact, it will not change. Corporate greed (or greed period) is killing the world.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #19367662 - 01/04/14 11:20 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

the fact that "they got theirs" is really what's keeping us from "getting ours." they still have it and wont let go.

they are a bunch of faggots. of course users on this board will just say i'm a crybaby because i dislike the fundamentals of capitalism.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19367670 - 01/04/14 11:25 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
you are so intelligent




Yup. Plus... I pay attention.



I'm so poor I can't afford to pay attention! :grin::rimshot:


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19367675 - 01/04/14 11:26 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
the fact that "they got theirs" is really what's keeping us from "getting ours." they still have it and wont let go.

they are a bunch of faggots. of course users on this board will just say i'm a crybaby because i dislike the fundamentals of capitalism.




The massive GROWING inequality in the distribution of income and wealth in the US is indisputable (a mile long list of economic statistics will prove this fact).

I'm a capitalist, but I will be the first one to tell someone, this version of "capitalism" is turning into a big failure.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19367688 - 01/04/14 11:30 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
the fact that "they got theirs" is really what's keeping us from "getting ours." they still have it and wont let go.

they are a bunch of faggots. of course users on this board will just say i'm a crybaby because i dislike the fundamentals of capitalism.



It seems like they want to keep the very rich in their own circle, not letting people get to their level, and/or making it very difficult to get there. There is only so much money and they want it all or most of it for themselves. :shrug:

I am not driven to be "rich" anyway. I will be an excellent nurse and be fulfilled in that way, while having a comfortable living,travel, and have really good times along the way. Seems like a waste of energy and time to me to have the mindset: "I have to have X amount of money to be happy." FUCK THAT!


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: qman]
    #19367690 - 01/04/14 11:31 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
the fact that "they got theirs" is really what's keeping us from "getting ours." they still have it and wont let go.

they are a bunch of faggots. of course users on this board will just say i'm a crybaby because i dislike the fundamentals of capitalism.




The massive GROWING inequality in the distribution of income and wealth in the US is indisputable (a mile long list of economic statistics will prove this fact).

I'm a capitalist, but I will be the first one to tell someone, this version of "capitalism" is turning into a big failure.



I agree 100%!


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: qman]
    #19367694 - 01/04/14 11:32 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Do you guys think price fixing is good economic policy?

minimum wage is price fixing.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19367750 - 01/04/14 11:47 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Do you guys think price fixing is good economic policy?

minimum wage is price fixing.




Hiking the minimum wage can't fix a structurally damaged economy, if it were only so simple.

Minimum wage is already at a all-time (since 1938) low in real terms, keeping it at the same level or 2 bucks higher makes no difference.

The worry shouldn't be the minimum wage laws, Obama and Congress are ready to pass another huge "trade agreement" with the piss poor countries of Asia, bottom line, they are getting ready to find even more cheap labor markets to ship more US jobs overseas.

Globalization is what is killing the US employment situation, not minimum wage laws.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19367872 - 01/04/14 12:11 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
How is it, that countries where the minimum salary is higher than in the US can still prosper and have higher growth than the US?

:ancientaliens:

It's as if the minimum salary has no extreme effects of raising prices and putting the rich on the streets.



Unemployment is alot higher in europe bro hmm I wonder why? :wink:




Because they listened to boneheaded economists who told them to cut spending in a recession, and they paid the price of double dipping.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19367971 - 01/04/14 12:31 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
Your little story had nothing to do with my overall point.




$1000 an hour has nothing to do with my point. It's an arbitrary number pulled out of your ass. No offence, but it is. In your example the extreme outcome leads you to believe no minimum wage should be raised, and then perhaps shouldn't exist. But not one person in this post has come up with a solid example of a person living in a country without a minimum wage, that started at $1 an hour, and is now making $30 an hour. So far it's all just theory, save you of course, doctors and lawyers who don't get paid minimum wage, and negotiate fantastic salaries. If you call starting pay at basic desirable salary "negotiating" in the first place.

Walmart doesn't really negotiate high pay, you might end up doing better then $7 an hour, but really you are not going to work at Walmart and make $25 an hour. And working at Walmart and paying for good education on their wages is not easy.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: qman]
    #19368001 - 01/04/14 12:36 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
How is it, that countries where the minimum salary is higher than in the US can still prosper and have higher growth than the US?

:ancientaliens:

It's as if the minimum salary has no extreme effects of raising prices and putting the rich on the streets.




It really depends on the economic fundamentals of each individual country, and the amount of available labor.

China has a minimum wage of .75 cents to $1.50 per hour in most parts of the country, why?  2 billion people and a massive pool of labor.

Maybe a country like Sweden can have a much higher minimum wage, a small population (9 million) with a higher educated and skilled workforce.

Why are real wages in the US down for almost 40 years?  Productivity gains and outsourcing of jobs overseas. Globalization has killed the availability of high paying low skilled jobs, that is nothing a minimum wage law can change.

How did my grandparents with no high school education make the equal of $100,000 per year during the 50's and 60's?  Tons of available work and limited amount of labor.




so why would a minimum wage increase not change that? It's already been said, no wage caps for large corporations are going to ever go into place. That limits competition, and reduces the amount of labour available, instead of creating a huge demand for labour and less people to fill it, which requires competitive growth of smaller companies, not just feeding the largest of the largest bail outs and regulating other businesses so only the best businesses can exceed.

If your example is true, then indeed a minimum wage increase would be the best thing. Why? Because no one is going to appreciate the skill of a hard working labourer and pay them more. They can lift 1000 bags of concrete every 5 minutes and they are still easily replaceable and unskilled. You don't find an extra $100 a week per employee will help raise people out of the poverty level? Everyone says "work harder not smarter." Hard to do when a job must be done, someone has to bust their guts and pull their muscles to do it.

:lol: I get the feeling there aren't a lot of "dish washers" in this thread arguing their point of view, saying that raising the minimum wage will decrease employment. That is ridiculous, it should be a crime to fire people for made up reasons when some businesses that make such good money like restaurants that make over 200k a year will just fire people because they want to save money. Those businesses pay mostly tips anyway.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #19368026 - 01/04/14 12:41 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

what we need is a socialist revolution.  We should kill all the rich people and take their stuff and re-distribute it.

THEN we'll make robots do everything and we'll export all our robot made goods and services and live like kings doing nothing.


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InvisibleDebuteMachine

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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: teamkiller]
    #19368033 - 01/04/14 12:42 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

teamkiller said:
what we need is a socialist revolution.  We should kill all the rich people and take their stuff and re-distribute it.

THEN we'll make robots do everything and we'll export all our robot made goods and services and live like kings doing nothing.




I would become a robot gladiator. Many sex for me for defeating machine!

:rockon:


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19368036 - 01/04/14 12:43 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
How is it, that countries where the minimum salary is higher than in the US can still prosper and have higher growth than the US?

:ancientaliens:

It's as if the minimum salary has no extreme effects of raising prices and putting the rich on the streets.





Lol, good one.


Im curious as to which countries you are talking about. Im not doubting you just curious.



The one problem IMO with raising min wage is it hurts employment.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel] * 2
    #19368043 - 01/04/14 12:43 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Even a 1 or 2 $ hike in minimum wage has big impact on an economy.

price fixing is bad.


if I'm an unskilled youth trying to get my foot in the door, every dollar increase is a huge barrier to entry for me.  Furthermore,  if both me and an employer freely agree on a certain wage, who do these fucking socialist fascists think they are when they hire armed goons to come and stop us?  Just piss off and mind your own bisiness.


minimum wage.... unions - these things are for losers who are too lazy and/or useless to be competitive.  Pathetic.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368083 - 01/04/14 12:50 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Yeah i forgot we're gonna need some armed goons.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins] * 1
    #19368084 - 01/04/14 12:51 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Do you guys think price fixing is good economic policy?

minimum wage is price fixing.




I'm just going to go ahead and say it, in this country price fixing happens every day. But the way price fixing happens is usually manipulated around the "free market." Wall Street is regulated that people can't buy stocks on the market when a stock is "hyped" just to get people to sell it. Really? Wow what a great law that nobody enforces. I mean, "churn em and burn em" is about the most widely used sales tactic a stock broker is trained on. It means you make a commission selling stock, not making the customer money. If the customer makes money even better, but if they don't you sell em more stock to try and fix the problem. I'm sure anyone who has had a sales job before can tell you, when a customer comes in complaining "you sell them something to fix the issue."

Now we are calling a wage increase that may not be approved but possibly approved at a lower amount, say at $7.95 an hour "price fixing." Well that's too bad huh? Let's think about what people can actually buy from working their ass off in an hour and making, well not $8.00 because taxes will rape that. More like $6.95 if you really want to be honest. Do you know what $6.95 can buy me where I live? If I go to Subway and get a foot long sub and a combo it actually costs me more then $6.95 where I am, especially if I get a soup instead of chips. Can you believe that? Some people can't, they say a subway where I am is just more expensive then the ones by where they live.

Meanwhile most homes in urban areas that have at least two bedrooms are at least 250k. "Well yeah that is the free market deciding the price" you cry. Bullshit, those real estate companies that are "regulated to not get together with appraisers and give them business if they appraise higher" is all bullshit. It happens every day, you know it, I know it, speculators and appraisers and companies break and bend those rules all the time. Those prices are more fixed then you could imagine.

Now I'm just going to go ahead and address your technical facts that state employment will go down. You are wrong. Why? Because of facts:





"The economic consequences are hard to predict. Economists historically frowned on minimum wages as distortionary price fixing that reduced demand for workers affected by the wage. But that assumption has come under fire from a growing body of research. The introduction of Britain’s minimum wage in 1999 had no notable impact on jobs, for example. In America, the White House approvingly cites research by Arindrajit Dube, William Lester and Michael Reich that compared counties where the minimum wage rate rose to neighbouring counties in states where it didn’t and found no negative effect on employment. The theory is that higher wages reduce costly turnover, reducing the incentive to lay workers off."

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21571894-president-proposes-hefty-increase-minimum-wage-trickle-up-economics





I mean really, I keep telling you to go ahead and provide resources that back up your claims instead of just theories. No one seems to be able to do it. So just stop talking. I appreciate it, unless you use some serious information to back up your statements, which I assume you will provide if you keep explaining to me that raising the minimum wage decreases employment? Thanks in advance


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19368096 - 01/04/14 12:53 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

yeah also we have to price fix alot of stuff, otherwise the electric company would charge you like 1000$ a month to power ur computer. ONly the government can save us from capitalist greed run amok. real talk.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: teamkiller] * 1
    #19368110 - 01/04/14 12:56 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

teamkiller said:
Yeah i forgot we're gonna need some armed goons.




Armed goons are ultimately the only way to enforce a minimum wage.

the true face of socialism is a goon pointing a gun with some sniveling socialist loser hiding behing him hoping for crumbs.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368115 - 01/04/14 12:57 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

elax420 said:
Quote:

Patlal said:
How is it, that countries where the minimum salary is higher than in the US can still prosper and have higher growth than the US?

:ancientaliens:

It's as if the minimum salary has no extreme effects of raising prices and putting the rich on the streets.





Lol, good one.


Im curious as to which countries you are talking about. Im not doubting you just curious.



The one problem IMO with raising min wage is it hurts employment.





prove it


Quote:

Shins said:
Even a 1 or 2 $ hike in minimum wage has big impact on an economy.

price fixing is bad.


if I'm an unskilled youth trying to get my foot in the door, every dollar increase is a huge barrier to entry for me.  Furthermore,  if both me and an employer freely agree on a certain wage, who do these fucking socialist fascists think they are when they hire armed goons to come and stop us?  Just piss off and mind your own bisiness.


minimum wage.... unions - these things are for losers who are too lazy and/or useless to be competitive.  Pathetic.





:rolleyes: yeah like you'd go work for some ass hole who wouldn't hire you because you asked for $8 instead of $7. I can see a person like you accepting such a position.

How about this, why don't you come over, stand on my back, piss on it, and tell me it's raining and the crops will be ready for harvest soon? :lol:

:piss:





:shrug:


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: teamkiller] * 1
    #19368124 - 01/04/14 01:00 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

teamkiller said:
yeah also we have to price fix alot of stuff, otherwise the electric company would charge you like 1000$ a month to power ur computer. ONly the government can save us from capitalist greed run amok. real talk.




The electric company is a pseudo government fascist monopoly that's why.  Dont slander capitalism by calling it that.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19368134 - 01/04/14 01:02 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Prove what? that the min wage hurts employment?


Just simple supply and demand. It has an inflationary effect but not much, and our inflation is pretty low as is so :shrug:


Raising min wage .75 cents has you guys this worked up :burke:


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: teamkiller]
    #19368150 - 01/04/14 01:05 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

teamkiller said:
yeah also we have to price fix alot of stuff, otherwise the electric company would charge you like 1000$ a month to power ur computer. ONly the government can save us from capitalist greed run amok. real talk.




Yeah in India the price per kilowatt per hour is 8 cents while in Denmark it's 40 cents per kilowatt per hour

http://theenergycollective.com/lindsay-wilson/279126/average-electricity-prices-around-world-kwh

I'm sure those energy costs are because of "free market" and "cheap labour" not because of influence of government officials in areas who decide what are the best companies to provide energy are. :rolleyes:
like I wouldn't know because I didn't have an uncle in that business with tons of friends in the energy sector and saw great ideas that could save users energy at the source of power consumption the user level rolled over while other energy companies with useless pre dated ideas involving technology would upgrade and save each house hold $5 a month get all this support and financial marketing etc. that politicians would help organize for the energy companies in the name of "helping the community save power and promoting cost efficiency"

What does set the cost of energy anyway? Does it have anything to do with minimum wage? Does a nuclear power plant paying people $15 an hour versus a hydro electric dam paying people $7 an hour versus a gas based power company paying people $17 an hour have an effect on the cost of energy? Why don't you bring some evidence to support your claims


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368155 - 01/04/14 01:06 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

teamkiller said:
yeah also we have to price fix alot of stuff, otherwise the electric company would charge you like 1000$ a month to power ur computer. ONly the government can save us from capitalist greed run amok. real talk.




The electric company is a pseudo government fascist monopoly that's why.  Dont slander capitalism by calling it that.




if only I was less verbose


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel] * 1
    #19368156 - 01/04/14 01:06 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Its none of your business how much I'd be willing to work for and it is not your place to dictate to me how much you think it should be.

the fact is, I'd rather make $7/hour than $0/hour.  If I'm an unskilled youth and minimum wage is high, I could very well be making $0 instead even though I'm willing to work for $7.

Or maybe ill just leech of welfare like you probably do cuz you think dociety owes you a living regardless of whether you contribute or not.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: teamkiller]
    #19368164 - 01/04/14 01:07 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

teamkiller said:
yeah also we have to price fix alot of stuff, otherwise the electric company would charge you like 1000$ a month to power ur computer. ONly the government can save us from capitalist greed run amok. real talk.




Oh... my... god.....:wtf:

:speechless:


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368176 - 01/04/14 01:09 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Even a 1 or 2 $ hike in minimum wage has big impact on an economy.

price fixing is bad.


if I'm an unskilled youth trying to get my foot in the door, every dollar increase is a huge barrier to entry for me.  Furthermore,  if both me and an employer freely agree on a certain wage, who do these fucking socialist fascists think they are when they hire armed goons to come and stop us?  Just piss off and mind your own bisiness.


minimum wage.... unions - these things are for losers who are too lazy and/or useless to be competitive.  Pathetic.




Yet, the states with higher minimum wages have much better economies. :shrug:

Quote:

Shins said:
Its none of your business how much I'd be willing to work for and it is not your place to dictate to me how much you think it should be.





Yes it is my business. You come in and low bid and you bring everybody's wages down. Isn't that the complaint about undocumented workers?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins] * 1
    #19368177 - 01/04/14 01:10 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

You know the world is fucked up when people at the bottom end of the economy wants to keep the poor poor in order to streghten an economy that has been destroyed by that same mentality.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19368188 - 01/04/14 01:12 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

I don't know why I waste my time talking to people who are economically illiterate.

I'd have to lecture for hours just to teach these fools basic kindergarten level economics it seems.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: elax420]
    #19368191 - 01/04/14 01:13 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

elax420 said:
Prove what? that the min wage hurts employment?


Just simple supply and demand. It has an inflationary effect but not much, and our inflation is pretty low as is so :shrug:


Raising min wage .75 cents has you guys this worked up :burke:




our inflation is low as it is?

but in July of 2008 our rate of inflation was at 5.6%

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-inflation-rates/

which had not been seen since January of 1991 when it was at 5.7

You are acting as though $7.25 an hour has caught up with the inflation that was occurring when it was raised. If you believe that :lol: maybe I can sell you a bridge as well? :shrug:

How much more inflation would you like to see? How expensive should an airplane/house/boat/car/property be before it's enough inflation to raise it $1 or so. Hey, maybe we can just get rid of the middle class and only have rich and poor and still be the #1 economy and set an example for the rest of the world of what the leading economy should look like. By the way, what is the difference between wealth distribution now and 50 years ago in 1964? The same? Can you show me please?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins] * 1
    #19368197 - 01/04/14 01:13 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Its none of your business how much I'd be willing to work for and it is not your place to dictate to me how much you think it should be.

the fact is, I'd rather make $7/hour than $0/hour.  If I'm an unskilled youth and minimum wage is high, I could very well be making $0 instead even though I'm willing to work for $7.

Or maybe ill just leech of welfare like you probably do cuz you think dociety owes you a living regardless of whether you contribute or not.





There is a major assumption right there.

All min wage workers are Unskilled and young :rofl: The point is to pay them enough that they don’t have to sell drugs and rob people to live. I guess you don’t get it that people aren’t just going to roll over and die, they are going to rob and kill to support their families.


you guys have been listening to zappa and that other old guy so much that you have actually became detached from reality.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19368215 - 01/04/14 01:17 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

elax420 said:
Prove what? that the min wage hurts employment?


Just simple supply and demand. It has an inflationary effect but not much, and our inflation is pretty low as is so :shrug:


Raising min wage .75 cents has you guys this worked up :burke:




our inflation is low as it is?

but in July of 2008 our rate of inflation was at 5.6%

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-inflation-rates/

which had not been seen since January of 1991 when it was at 5.7

You are acting as though $7.25 an hour has caught up with the inflation that was occurring when it was raised. If you believe that :lol: maybe I can sell you a bridge as well? :shrug:

How much more inflation would you like to see? How expensive should an airplane/house/boat/car/property be before it's enough inflation to raise it $1 or so. Hey, maybe we can just get rid of the middle class and only have rich and poor and still be the #1 economy and set an example for the rest of the world of what the leading economy should look like. By the way, what is the difference between wealth distribution now and 50 years ago in 1964? The same? Can you show me please?




ya in 2008 inflation was bad, that was 5 years ago though :lolsy: It was at 2% last year.  you keep bringing up all this shit that has nothing to do with min wage.

Why the fuck do i care what wealth distribution was 50 years ago? was i alive 50 years ago? is this relevant to your post in any way shape or form? Hell no, your going through this crazy hyperbole that makes you hard to take serious dude.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19368217 - 01/04/14 01:18 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Even a 1 or 2 $ hike in minimum wage has big impact on an economy.

price fixing is bad.


if I'm an unskilled youth trying to get my foot in the door, every dollar increase is a huge barrier to entry for me.  Furthermore,  if both me and an employer freely agree on a certain wage, who do these fucking socialist fascists think they are when they hire armed goons to come and stop us?  Just piss off and mind your own bisiness.


minimum wage.... unions - these things are for losers who are too lazy and/or useless to be competitive.  Pathetic.




Yet, the states with higher minimum wages have much better economies. :shrug:

Quote:

Shins said:
Its none of your business how much I'd be willing to work for and it is not your place to dictate to me how much you think it should be.





Yes it is my business. You come in and low bid and you bring everybody's wages down. Isn't that the complaint about undocumented workers?





And that's exactly my point.  You cannot compete with my efficiency so you hire goons with guns to protect your uncompetitive ass.

you want to cheat at capitalism.

the truth is youre just as greedy and capitalistic as anyone but just too pathetic to play under a fair set of rules.

when you lose at competing, you want to hire goons to force people to pay you what you want becaise you are too pathetic to earn that wage by competing in a free market.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368242 - 01/04/14 01:22 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Its none of your business how much I'd be willing to work for and it is not your place to dictate to me how much you think it should be.

the fact is, I'd rather make $7/hour than $0/hour.  If I'm an unskilled youth and minimum wage is high, I could very well be making $0 instead even though I'm willing to work for $7.

Or maybe ill just leech of welfare like you probably do cuz you think dociety owes you a living regardless of whether you contribute or not.




It's none of your business what I'd be willing to work for base hourly pay. And it certainly isn't $7. :rolleyes: oh yeah here we go your run out of stuff to throw at me so you come out with the "you are on welfare and don't work for shit" statement. Well what do you do? You have tons of time to argue in here are you proving to me how hard your certain area of labour or expertise is? :rolleyes: please you believe in college graduation and a sit there and don't do shit all day because someone got you the job job. I'm sure in this world a starting $7 an hour job will lead to skill expertise that will eventually be making people $28 an hour.

Yeah, right

because it's like that. We covered that

It isn't like that, I was being sarcastic. Jobs at $7 an hour don't "get your foot in the door" for shit. If they did the college institutions wouldn't be raping people students left and right for bachelors degrees :urinate:

By the way no one believes you'd take a job for $7 please no more bullshit thanks :smirk:

Quote:

Patlal said:
You know the world is fucked up when people at the bottom end of the economy wants to keep the poor poor in order to streghten an economy that has been destroyed by that same mentality.




They are not at the bottom with that argument. Definitely not the top but not the bottom. Oh wait yes they are at the bottom, hey I've got this great bridge that cost $1,000,000 to build but I can sell it to you for 100k. Can you give me a call?

Quote:

Shins said:
I don't know why I waste my time talking to people who are economically illiterate.

I'd have to lecture for hours just to teach these fools basic kindergarten level economics it seems.




yeah you have proven a lot to me. I very much understand now from your education how those $5 an hour jobs were getting peoples "feet in the door." And all the evidence you have provided to support your claims has just been phenomenal, how a guy started at $3.75 an hour and is now making like $37 an hour without a degree. This guy started washing dishes and now owns his own restaurant he started doing taste testings in his house and hosting parties and charging low prices to cater others parties and get the word around about how great his food is before he started, and the $3 an hour wage was what allowed him to hire people to help me cater and allow his prices to remain low.

His autobiography is on the internet, that you provided especially well in that link. Hey thanks for everything


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: elax420]
    #19368252 - 01/04/14 01:23 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

elax420 said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Its none of your business how much I'd be willing to work for and it is not your place to dictate to me how much you think it should be.

the fact is, I'd rather make $7/hour than $0/hour.  If I'm an unskilled youth and minimum wage is high, I could very well be making $0 instead even though I'm willing to work for $7.

Or maybe ill just leech of welfare like you probably do cuz you think dociety owes you a living regardless of whether you contribute or not.





There is a major assumption right there.

All min wage workers are Unskilled and young :rofl: The point is to pay them enough that they don’t have to sell drugs and rob people to live. I guess you don’t get it that people aren’t just going to roll over and die, they are going to rob and kill to support their families.


you guys have been listening to zappa and that other old guy so much that you have actually became detached from reality.




No, I have a firm grasp on economic realities that you lack.

I was in poverty for a few years and I never ever stole or broke the law, I adapted and survived, welcome to nature. 

Now I make well above minimum wage simply because I decided to get serious and put some real effort into my professional life. 

You can too, you just can't be a lazy deadbeat, its easy really.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: elax420]
    #19368276 - 01/04/14 01:29 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

elax420 said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

elax420 said:
Prove what? that the min wage hurts employment?


Just simple supply and demand. It has an inflationary effect but not much, and our inflation is pretty low as is so :shrug:


Raising min wage .75 cents has you guys this worked up :burke:




our inflation is low as it is?

but in July of 2008 our rate of inflation was at 5.6%

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-inflation-rates/

which had not been seen since January of 1991 when it was at 5.7

You are acting as though $7.25 an hour has caught up with the inflation that was occurring when it was raised. If you believe that :lol: maybe I can sell you a bridge as well? :shrug:

How much more inflation would you like to see? How expensive should an airplane/house/boat/car/property be before it's enough inflation to raise it $1 or so. Hey, maybe we can just get rid of the middle class and only have rich and poor and still be the #1 economy and set an example for the rest of the world of what the leading economy should look like. By the way, what is the difference between wealth distribution now and 50 years ago in 1964? The same? Can you show me please?




ya in 2008 inflation was bad, that was 5 years ago though :lolsy: It was at 2% last year.  you keep bringing up all this shit that has nothing to do with min wage.

Why the fuck do i care what wealth distribution was 50 years ago? was i alive 50 years ago? is this relevant to your post in any way shape or form? Hell no, your going through this crazy hyperbole that makes you hard to take serious dude.




everything else thrown at me in this thread has also been hyperbole "why not raise the wages to $1000 an hour, you guys don't understand economics"

What should I reply with? And if inflation has nothing to do with the minimum wage then why is it brought up to contradict me so much? Ok fine, forget inflation. No one speaks about the positive attributes of minimum wage, such as the community having literally millions more dollars per year to spend, evening out consumer spending by distributing who can buy what where, giving other businesses a solid chance to make sales to a lower class that can now afford to spend a little more. Are you denying that? Is this hyperbole?

Should new businesses only exist to market to people who make 50k + a year? It's as though there are no positive benefits of minimum wage, only people who probably haven't made minimum wage in over 15 years arguing back when it was easier to get a minimum wage job and then switch jobs right away the benefits back then versus the negative implications now. In a time when people have to keep the same shitty job for 8+ years waiting for skilled jobs to come to them and start getting basic skill to move along to the next position that might actually pay them as a career, you better believe a minimum wage increase will help.

Can't get your foot in the door? Oh wait you can work for zero, that's right, it's called interning.

Now let's argue that hyperbole


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368282 - 01/04/14 01:31 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Even a 1 or 2 $ hike in minimum wage has big impact on an economy.

price fixing is bad.


if I'm an unskilled youth trying to get my foot in the door, every dollar increase is a huge barrier to entry for me.  Furthermore,  if both me and an employer freely agree on a certain wage, who do these fucking socialist fascists think they are when they hire armed goons to come and stop us?  Just piss off and mind your own bisiness.


minimum wage.... unions - these things are for losers who are too lazy and/or useless to be competitive.  Pathetic.




Yet, the states with higher minimum wages have much better economies. :shrug:

Quote:

Shins said:
Its none of your business how much I'd be willing to work for and it is not your place to dictate to me how much you think it should be.





Yes it is my business. You come in and low bid and you bring everybody's wages down. Isn't that the complaint about undocumented workers?





And that's exactly my point.  You cannot compete with my efficiency so you hire goons with guns to protect your uncompetitive ass.

you want to cheat at capitalism.

the truth is youre just as greedy and capitalistic as anyone but just too pathetic to play under a fair set of rules.

when you lose at competing, you want to hire goons to force people to pay you what you want becaise you are too pathetic to earn that wage by competing in a free market.




cheating at capitalism? Oh my. Not following the rules? Well I thought the rules said you could raise the minimum wage. Do you understand what capitalism is?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368283 - 01/04/14 01:31 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Low wages mean low prices means lower cost of living.


I Iive in a place with a high minimum wage and we have one of the highest costs of living in north america, its insane.

tonnes of people here go shopping to the united states because your prices are so much lower.

those are literally jobs migrating south of the boarder.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368300 - 01/04/14 01:35 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Low wages mean low prices means lower cost of living.


I Iive in a place with a high minimum wage and we have one of the highest costs of living in north america, its insane.

tonnes of people here go shopping to the united states because your prices are so much lower.

those are literally jobs migrating south of the boarder.




Yes the United States has the cheapest shopping

http://www.tripify.com/blog/finding-shopping-paradise-worlds-cheapest-shopping-destinations

:lol:

also there has been much dispute to the fact that places with high cost of living have higher minimum wage BECAUSE of high cost of living, then it's said later that the cost of living is so high BECAUSE of higher minimum wage. I'm still waiting to see all this evidence that places with higher minimum wage have higher costs BECAUSE of higher minimum wage and not that minimum wage was raised to increase costs.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368304 - 01/04/14 01:36 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Minimum wage doesn't give communities more money to spend, it makes less people have the same pool of money to spend and makes the difference in those people unemployed.

itll likely reduce money actually because smart people will buy labor and products from other better value communities instead.

even if it did magically bring in more money that would cause inflation and raise the cost of living.


THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH!!


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368338 - 01/04/14 01:42 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

A mimimum wage is not part of capitalism,  its a socialist policy thst is usually induced because all the other socialist policies raise the cost of living and cost of labor so high and put so much financial burden on the worker that its much harder to make a living that in a more capitalist economy.


its like stabbing yourself in the chest then putting a bandaid on it


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368376 - 01/04/14 01:48 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

So what you're saying, is to remove the knife from the equation?

IE so you can't stab yourself anymore.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19368404 - 01/04/14 01:54 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Exactly, and the knife is socialism.

I'm so tired of arguing with socialists who blame all the problems caused by socialism>fascism  on capitalism and apparently have no idea of the economic imbalances socialism causes.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368435 - 01/04/14 01:59 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Newsflash. The US is the least socialist country of the modern world. Hell you let your own citizens die when they can't afford treatment anymore


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19368444 - 01/04/14 02:01 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

The most socialist countries have killed themselves.

The least socialist ocuntry in the modern world (US) has also killed himself

Everybody in the middle is doing ok.

The message is clear.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19368451 - 01/04/14 02:03 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Dude you don't know what capitalism or socialism is obviously.


the USA is extremely socialist / fascist.  Its a myth that the USA is capitalist.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368500 - 01/04/14 02:12 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Dude you don't know what capitalism or socialism is obviously.


the USA is extremely socialist / fascist.  Its a myth that the USA is capitalist.




Alright, I'll play along.

Explain what capitalism is, what socialism is, and why the US is a facist and socialist state.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19368606 - 01/04/14 02:32 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

First of all you need sound money for capitalism.

explain to be how Keynesian monetary systems could be capitalist?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368647 - 01/04/14 02:42 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
First of all you need sound money for capitalism.

explain to be how Keynesian monetary systems could be capitalist?




I was 99% sure you would dodge my question. Normally people that knows something jump at the occasion of explaining it.

Now before asking more question, can you at least explain to me why the US is extremely socialist and fascist? (cause I can get the definition of capitalism and socialism online). You can't make a comment such as this without at least explaining why you believe/observe that.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368741 - 01/04/14 03:06 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Believe it not, but the real wages in the 1870-1915 era (textile workers) were higher ($12 per hour with no taxes) than today, there was no minimum wage back them, just a huge demand for textile workers. Immigrants took those jobs and started a good life for themselves.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19368745 - 01/04/14 03:07 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

Shins said:
First of all you need sound money for capitalism.

explain to be how Keynesian monetary systems could be capitalist?




I was 99% sure you would dodge my question. Normally people that knows something jump at the occasion of explaining it.

Now before asking more question, can you at least explain to me why the US is extremely socialist and fascist? (cause I can get the definition of capitalism and socialism online). You can't make a comment such as this without at least explaining why you believe/observe that.




I was genuinely curious as well. :shrug:


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19368754 - 01/04/14 03:10 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Let me rephrase; we have a socialist/fascist monetary system at the root.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19368766 - 01/04/14 03:12 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

you could argue that.

people in this thread are so damn concerned with a minimum wage, why is no one concerned 90% of the wealth in the WORLD is controlled by a small percentage of people?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19368842 - 01/04/14 03:31 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

lol shins you obviously don't know what capitalism is.

No society anywhere, in all of history, has had a free market capitalist society.  because such a thing is obviously absurd.

capitalism only works with socialist balances.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: teamkiller]
    #19368852 - 01/04/14 03:33 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

throughout most of human history there was no minimum wage.

Lol that was a really great idea.

i bet you think you're really smart shins.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: teamkiller]
    #19368981 - 01/04/14 04:04 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

The other reason you have minimum wages is so that people with a job make enough money to not require government assistance. Essentially, if you pay someone $4 an hour, the taxpayers end up subsidizing the employees earnings.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19369072 - 01/04/14 04:26 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

If everyone makes minimum wage (which it's like half of the people) then they all have to get food benefits and subsidized.  The minimum wage should be $10 across the board.

If the MONEY ACTAULLY STAYS IN THE LOCAL ECONOMY because minimum wage is higher then it will benefit all the business in that community cause those minimum wage earners are going to go out and spend that extra money back into their local economy.  All the businesses will see more business from the extra money left in the community each pay cycle. 


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Edited by Nymphaea (01/04/14 04:29 PM)


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Nymphaea]
    #19369104 - 01/04/14 04:32 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Nymphaea said:
If everyone makes minimum wage (which it's like half of the people) then they all have to get food benefits and subsidized.  The minimum wage should be $10 across the board.

If the MONEY ACTAULLY STAYS IN THE LOCAL ECONOMY because minimum wage is higher then it will benefit all the business in that community cause those minimum wage earners are going to go out and spend that extra money back into their local economy.  All the businesses will see more business from the extra money left in the community each pay cycle. 




us poor bastards aren't the ones with swiss bank accounts sending shit over seas.

well you could argue some people send money to their relatives over seas, like illegals. but it's less of a difference.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19369211 - 01/04/14 04:55 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Dude you don't know what capitalism or socialism is obviously.


the USA is extremely socialist / fascist.  Its a myth that the USA is capitalist.




Alright, I'll play along.

Explain what capitalism is, what socialism is, and why the US is a facist and socialist state.




:loldongs:


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19369280 - 01/04/14 05:09 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
you could argue that.

people in this thread are so damn concerned with a minimum wage, why is no one concerned 90% of the wealth in the WORLD is controlled by a small percentage of people?




I am. At the mere suggestion of a wage cap I felt as though I was almost getting rocks thrown at me. To me a minimum wage increase is much more realistic and will at least balance out wealth to a small degree. Personally the numbers game bores er its $10 or $100 its just a number. But how can you value what what$56 will buy you in one day minus 25% income tax in terms of tangeable assets? Its almost like getting slapped in the face to say "socialism will raise the bare wage $1 is that what you want?"

As long as we are complaining about wage increase why not bitch about the free market all together? There is one last burger left on the planet, so the guy who made it decides to sell it for $3 million? So thats no facist? Its democratic?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19369290 - 01/04/14 05:10 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The other reason you have minimum wages is so that people with a job make enough money to not require government assistance. Essentially, if you pay someone $4 an hour, the taxpayers end up subsidizing the employees earnings.




Thanks for that


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19369296 - 01/04/14 05:12 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

if there is 1 burger left yes it should sell for 3 billion. supply and demand.

wtf now youre being a socialist. pick a side damn it.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19369713 - 01/04/14 06:40 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

God damn, minimum wage doesn't bring more koney to a comunity, it just distributes the same money to less people...  you socialists all think money can just appear out of thin air.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19369719 - 01/04/14 06:41 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

dude if you knew how the federal reserve worked, yes it does appear out of thin air.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19369740 - 01/04/14 06:45 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
if there is 1 burger left yes it should sell for 3 billion. supply and demand.

wtf now youre being a socialist. pick a side damn it.




:winning:


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19369771 - 01/04/14 06:53 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
dude if you knew how the federal reserve worked, yes it does appear out of thin air.




I do know how it works.... you can thank socialists for the Fed.

the evil bankers get to rob the country while the socialists/fascists get to spend and spend.

Meanwhile they blame capitalism and fail to see that it was socialist policies that enabled the fed to rob the people and enrich the crony corporations.

now were here debating the stupid minumum wage as if it would actually fix anything significant.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19369790 - 01/04/14 06:57 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
God damn, minimum wage doesn't bring more koney to a comunity, it just distributes the same money to less people...  you socialists all think money can just appear out of thin air.




Yeah, it takes from the people who have 1000 times more money that they need and gives it to people trying to be able to survive. Hopefully some will manage to pay for an education in order to get out of the shithole. Supressing the poor won't help anyone. Keep the poor happy. They outnumber us.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Patlal]
    #19369798 - 01/04/14 06:59 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

No it won't, they will work people harder and/or cut their hours.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19369905 - 01/04/14 07:21 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

When unions get higher wages for their members by restricting entry into an occupation, those higher wages are at the expense of other workers who find their opportunities reduced. When government pays its employees higher wages, those higher wages are at the expense of the taxpayer. But when workers get higher wages and better working conditions through the free market, when they get raises by firm competing with one another for the best workers, by workers competing with one another for the best jobs, those higher wages are at nobody's expense. They can only come from higher productivity, greater capital investment, more widely diffused skills. The whole pie is bigger - there's more for the worker, but there's also more for the employer, the investor, the consumer, and even the tax collector.

That's the way the free market system distributes the fruits of economic progress among all people. That's the secret of the enormous improvements in the conditions of the working person over the past two centuries.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19369922 - 01/04/14 07:23 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
When unions get higher wages for their members by restricting entry into an occupation, those higher wages are at the expense of other workers who find their opportunities reduced. When government pays its employees higher wages, those higher wages are at the expense of the taxpayer. But when workers get higher wages and better working conditions through the free market, when they get raises by firm competing with one another for the best workers, by workers competing with one another for the best jobs, those higher wages are at nobody's expense. They can only come from higher productivity, greater capital investment, more widely diffused skills. The whole pie is bigger - there's more for the worker, but there's also more for the employer, the investor, the consumer, and even the tax collector.

That's the way the free market system distributes the fruits of economic progress among all people. That's the secret of the enormous improvements in the conditions of the working person over the past two centuries.




you missed the part where everything you just said is PHILOSOPHY. conglomerates dont give a fuck about free market.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19369949 - 01/04/14 07:29 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

You are correct government supported conglomerates that is if the state simply did the few things it was mandated to do market forces would ensure ample competition and no monopolies.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19369963 - 01/04/14 07:32 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
God damn, minimum wage doesn't bring more koney to a comunity, it just distributes the same money to less people...  you socialists all think money can just appear out of thin air.




Actually, one of the ways money is created is through labor. So yes, higher wages do create money out of thin air.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19369982 - 01/04/14 07:36 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Money is not created by labour, its created by debt actually.

value or wealth can be created by labour but that is a seperate thing from money.

you do not create value by creating money, you can redistribute it though if you can fool enough suckers to buy into it.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19370041 - 01/04/14 07:50 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
dude if you knew how the federal reserve worked, yes it does appear out of thin air.




I do know how it works.... you can thank socialists for the Fed.

the evil bankers get to rob the country while the socialists/fascists get to spend and spend.

Meanwhile they blame capitalism and fail to see that it was socialist policies that enabled the fed to rob the people and enrich the crony corporations.

now were here debating the stupid minumum wage as if it would actually fix anything significant.




Ok then it wouldn't. But it wouldn't hurt much either. That's all I'm saying, to me it couldn't matter any more or any less either way. I don't even know why I'm defending minimum wage I haven't earned it in years I just feel bad for everyone else. I actually started a service business recently for a friend who started creating his own drinks I won't go into detail but I've actually been going and helping him set up events and make drinks it's pretty much our thing together, we haven't done much but break even but that'll change soon, as what I'm doing is really cheap to create and actually makes good money and we do events where people pay $5 and drink all day and it actually does pretty good 50 people show up and we do alright.

I hate arguing this shit as neither of us deal with minimum wage we just split whatever is made. I only argue wages because most businesses don't just do a split which sucks they only split stock but otherwise the employees are just pawns and I feel bad for pawns as they usually have no choice and here I am feeling bad like they should get paid more but who cares it's not my problem. However I will say out of the 1000 decisions Obama has made I hate 999 out them but raising the minimum wage isn't one of him. It's smart on his part he knows billionaires send tax money to Switzerland banks as to keep it tax free and he plans to take in more tax money by raising wages that he knows he can tax because the poor don't send money to Switzerland

as much as I know he is a corrupt ass hole president, I have to respect that he is pretty smart. I mean, he sure can win a game of chess, he isn't dumb


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19370074 - 01/04/14 08:00 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
When unions get higher wages for their members by restricting entry into an occupation, those higher wages are at the expense of other workers who find their opportunities reduced. When government pays its employees higher wages, those higher wages are at the expense of the taxpayer. But when workers get higher wages and better working conditions through the free market, when they get raises by firm competing with one another for the best workers, by workers competing with one another for the best jobs, those higher wages are at nobody's expense. They can only come from higher productivity, greater capital investment, more widely diffused skills. The whole pie is bigger - there's more for the worker, but there's also more for the employer, the investor, the consumer, and even the tax collector.

That's the way the free market system distributes the fruits of economic progress among all people. That's the secret of the enormous improvements in the conditions of the working person over the past two centuries.




:lol: yes in a perfect world. And of course in some cases this isn't wrong, for example doctors and lawyers. In other cases it isn't applied at all people just come in like mimes on the assembly line and are handed the minimum wage. This is the mistake people keep making that I have to sit here and debate this stupid shit that makes my head hurt. In a perfect world minimum wage would be useless, theoretically. But in this world there isn't enough of an issue of the minimum wage going up at all BRO

in the grand scheme of things it's a minor change either way. Oh well screw it it is what it is I can't just sit here and keep talking about it. I can't imagine it making a huge difference either way it's just retarded to defend it or attack it in my opinion. Neither you nor I have much significant control at all of what happens, and I doubt a wage change will effect either of us in any dramatic way. I certainly don't think it has any impact on "capitalism" or "represents socialism." I mean for all the defence this subject gets, we could be discussing war

And for people who think a guy doesn't deserve to earn a higher "minimum" I sure don't want to start knowing what ya'll think of war. I mean killing is wrong one way or another, I guess I think of wages as my fellow man deserving to earn better. But fuck it who cares if people are poor or starving or getting blown up. I can say this, at least we live in a country lucky enough that we expect a minimum wage not a maximum wage

I mean if you guys are pissed over a minimum I can't imagine what you'd think of a maximum at least we don't live in a communist world so thank god for that. Do whatever you want with the minimum wage I couldn't give a fuck remove it and pay people $2 because they don't mind working for it. I had this conversation with my 80 year old grandma today from a different era and she says she already pays a gardner $100 a day to come for one day every two weeks and honestly can't imagine complaining about someone being paid $64 instead of $56 for the day. And this is coming from an old woman who lived in an extremely conservative time telling me I'm ridiculous to even argue this retarded shit. So I actually apologize, for getting involved in a discussion so useless and stupid with such little real impact on anything that will just lead to a dead end and more closed thinking

good luck


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19370096 - 01/04/14 08:04 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

he has a picture of carl marx as his avatar and hes defending capitalism :stonedjerk:


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19370105 - 01/04/14 08:05 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:
When unions get higher wages for their members by restricting entry into an occupation, those higher wages are at the expense of other workers who find their opportunities reduced. When government pays its employees higher wages, those higher wages are at the expense of the taxpayer. But when workers get higher wages and better working conditions through the free market, when they get raises by firm competing with one another for the best workers, by workers competing with one another for the best jobs, those higher wages are at nobody's expense. They can only come from higher productivity, greater capital investment, more widely diffused skills. The whole pie is bigger - there's more for the worker, but there's also more for the employer, the investor, the consumer, and even the tax collector.

That's the way the free market system distributes the fruits of economic progress among all people. That's the secret of the enormous improvements in the conditions of the working person over the past two centuries.




you missed the part where everything you just said is PHILOSOPHY. conglomerates dont give a fuck about free market.






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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine] * 1
    #19370118 - 01/04/14 08:09 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
he has a picture of carl marx as his avatar and hes defending capitalism :stonedjerk:






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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine] * 1
    #19370478 - 01/04/14 09:55 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
he has a picture of carl marx as his avatar and hes defending capitalism :stonedjerk:



Stalin you goof


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18] * 1
    #19370480 - 01/04/14 09:55 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

at least i was right about the communist part :elmo:


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Shins]
    #19370483 - 01/04/14 09:56 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Shins said:
Money is not created by labour, its created by debt actually.

value or wealth can be created by labour but that is a seperate thing from money.

you do not create value by creating money, you can redistribute it though if you can fool enough suckers to buy into it.




Your being picky. Labor adds value and money is a representation of that value.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19370485 - 01/04/14 09:57 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
Money is not created by labour, its created by debt actually.

value or wealth can be created by labour but that is a seperate thing from money.

you do not create value by creating money, you can redistribute it though if you can fool enough suckers to buy into it.




Your being picky. Labor adds value and money is a representation of that value.



Y u so leftwing koods?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19370489 - 01/04/14 09:59 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Probably from living in Canada, being brainwashed by their socialist citizens.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19370494 - 01/04/14 10:00 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Ah well that would make sense. Canada is very different from the United States though culturally, historically there a whole other beast. And if things go south here in the states I plan on becoming a Canadian citizen.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19370669 - 01/04/14 10:54 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
Quote:

Nymphaea said:
If everyone makes minimum wage (which it's like half of the people) then they all have to get food benefits and subsidized.  The minimum wage should be $10 across the board.

If the MONEY ACTAULLY STAYS IN THE LOCAL ECONOMY because minimum wage is higher then it will benefit all the business in that community cause those minimum wage earners are going to go out and spend that extra money back into their local economy.  All the businesses will see more business from the extra money left in the community each pay cycle. 




us poor bastards aren't the ones with swiss bank accounts sending shit over seas.

well you could argue some people send money to their relatives over seas, like illegals. but it's less of a difference.





I'm not talking about money being sent over seas.  I'm just talking about the money literally staying within the city limit.  When that happens it creates a multiplier effect where it's super likely that it will get spent again in the same city.  It makes it so that you aren't paying for the distribution and the high wage earners associated with large chain retailers.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19371747 - 01/05/14 08:14 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
he has a picture of carl marx as his avatar and hes defending capitalism :stonedjerk:




its irony, I r o n y. God damn i weep for the future:eek:


Edited by myc_check1212 (01/05/14 09:38 AM)


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: DebuteMachine]
    #19371749 - 01/05/14 08:16 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

DebuteMachine said:
at least i was right about the communist part :elmo:




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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19371891 - 01/05/14 09:15 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Probably from living in Canada, being brainwashed by their socialist citizens.




Al it takes is a year and suddenly you see the light, right?


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: koods]
    #19372046 - 01/05/14 09:53 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
God damn, minimum wage doesn't bring more koney to a comunity, it just distributes the same money to less people...  you socialists all think money can just appear out of thin air.




Actually, one of the ways money is created is through labor. So yes, higher wages do create money out of thin air.





:picard: "wealth" is created through productive labor.  Minimum wage laws do not create productive labor, they just shuffle money around, mostly from one group of poor people to another group of poor people.

You can make arguments for minimum wage all you want but one argument you cannot make with any sanity is for a federal one.  There are wildly disparate economies throughout the country.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19372069 - 01/05/14 09:58 AM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Not in Texas! Doin' it right.


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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19373124 - 01/05/14 01:51 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
they just shuffle money around, mostly from one group of poor people to another group of poor people.

.




It's amazing to look at this as a powerful business model, but this is essentially the same thing that happens with banks and interest, stocks and bonds, insurance collections and premiums, etc. It is essentially just moving money around from one group to another. Sorry to burst your bubble, but all financial institutions deal with intangible assets, they are not "producing" anything, such as a labourer does when he works and creates product goods and services

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
God damn, minimum wage doesn't bring more koney to a comunity, it just distributes the same money to less people...  you socialists all think money can just appear out of thin air.




Actually, one of the ways money is created is through labor. So yes, higher wages do create money out of thin air.





:picard: "wealth" is created through productive labor.  Minimum wage laws do not create productive labor




I don't imagine minimum wage laws creating labour or destroying labour. A higher wage doesn't stop someone from working harder, unless of course you are referring to spoiled brat children who inherit all their parents money, blow it on cocain and hookers, and call themselves CEOs


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

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Offlinek00laid
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19373236 - 01/05/14 02:22 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
'




they create debt.
thats something


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: imachavel]
    #19373245 - 01/05/14 02:25 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
they just shuffle money around, mostly from one group of poor people to another group of poor people.

.




It's amazing to look at this as a powerful business model, but this is essentially the same thing that happens with banks and interest, stocks and bonds, insurance collections and premiums, etc. It is essentially just moving money around from one group to another. Sorry to burst your bubble, but all financial institutions deal with intangible assets, they are not "producing" anything, such as a labourer does when he works and creates product goods and services




No it isn't.  They are providing capital for growth.  Raising the minimum wage extracts capital for growth.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Shins said:
God damn, minimum wage doesn't bring more koney to a comunity, it just distributes the same money to less people...  you socialists all think money can just appear out of thin air.




Actually, one of the ways money is created is through labor. So yes, higher wages do create money out of thin air.





:picard: "wealth" is created through productive labor.  Minimum wage laws do not create productive labor




I don't imagine minimum wage laws creating labour or destroying labour. A higher wage doesn't stop someone from working harder, unless of course you are referring to spoiled brat children who inherit all their parents money, blow it on cocain and hookers, and call themselves CEOs




Where did I say it did either?  I said it pointlessly shuffled money around with no mind or reason except to perpetuate a system that allows losers to reproduce their defective genes.


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Offlineimachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
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Registered: 06/06/07
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Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19373500 - 01/05/14 03:31 PM (10 years, 25 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
they just shuffle money around, mostly from one group of poor people to another group of poor people.

.




It's amazing to look at this as a powerful business model, but this is essentially the same thing that happens with banks and interest, stocks and bonds, insurance collections and premiums, etc. It is essentially just moving money around from one group to another. Sorry to burst your bubble, but all financial institutions deal with intangible assets, they are not "producing" anything, such as a labourer does when he works and creates product goods and services




No it isn't.  They are providing capital for growth.  Raising the minimum wage extracts capital for growth.




It extracts capital for growth? It is extracting from those who would provide growth? And I assume the extra money could be re invested to grow the business and provide more growth? And who would benefit from more growth? The same wage earners who are extracting capital for growth?


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Invisibleelax420
Anal Destroyer
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Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
Re: so like... the minimum wage is a socialist crime now [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19378717 - 01/06/14 06:52 PM (10 years, 24 days ago)

Quote:

Gilgamesh18 said:if things go south here in the states I plan on becoming a Canadian citizen.





Duuuude, come on. Thats like the most un-American thing i have ever seen posted on this site.


Viva la mexico, pinche (totally joking a mod happens to know spanish)


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