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InvisibleMagicman69
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19363316 - 01/03/14 12:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Matter can not be created from nothing. If the big bang theory is correct (and I have serious doubts) what created the matter that started the bang? Something created this matter. God. Maybe not the god in the bible, but IMO, there was some sort of design to the universe in the beginning.


Edited by Magicman69 (01/03/14 01:00 PM)


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
    #19363323 - 01/03/14 01:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:



Really? Certainly sounds like you found the arguments persuasive to me. Nobody is saying that you should take scientific theory as dogma, only that we shouldn't have to take your dogma as scientific theory.

Nye is going to talk about what he always talks about, that children attending school do not need to be taught your speculations about what deities may or may not exist, or what role they may have played in the processes of evolution.

Evolution is a well formed theory with loads of evidence backing it up from a wide range of sciences. There is an overwhelming consensus on how the pieces fit together and there's an overwhelmingly coherent curriculum for teaching it.

Creationism is a poorly formed dogma with absolutely no empirical evidence supporting it from any one of the sciences. There is little to no consensus on what pieces can be jammed where and the curriculum surrounding it is religious texts. The entire thing can be summed up in one sentence, "We don't really know anything for sure so it must have been god."

The two do not belong side by side in schools, this is a well documented passion of Dr. Nye's and it's what anybody reasonable would expect from this debate.



Evolutionary theory should be taught; however, more attention should be given to its possible flaws. Children should not be taught that it is almost certain our human exist is a result of a macroevolutionary process that began with "inorganic matter".


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Magicman69] * 1
    #19363327 - 01/03/14 01:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Magicman69 said:
Matter can not be created from nothing. If the big bang theory is correct (and I have serious doubts) what created the matter that started the bang? Something created this matter. God. Maybe not the god in the bible, but IMO, there was some sort of design to the universe in the beginning.



This is a silly argument because it leads to infinite regress.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: The Vapor]
    #19363339 - 01/03/14 01:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Vapor said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
dumb. whenever a "scientist" wastes time addressing the existence or nonexistence of god [s]he instantly loses so much respect in my eyes. just do science. people who believe in god arent going to watch that shit and change their mind




I don't know if you have quotation around scientist because you don't think he is a legitimate scientist or what, but he graduated from Cornell with a BSc (where one of his professors was Carl Sagan). He then went on to be a mechanical engineer at Boeing. His specialty might not necessarily be the topic being debated, but I'm sure he is a learned guy.



I am talking about any individuals who do this sort of thing, not Bill Nye. And I do believe that, when one is discussing the topic of the supernatural, one cannot at that moment be called a scientist. One may be a Scientist by profession, but at that moment one is not practicing science. It is metaphyiscal philosophy.


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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19363342 - 01/03/14 01:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
dumb. whenever a "scientist" wastes time addressing the existence or nonexistence of god [s]he instantly loses so much respect in my eyes. just do science. people who believe in god arent going to watch that shit and change their mind




People who believe in God won't change their mind, but people who are on the fence about the subject, or people who are open-minded and don't believe one way or the other will definitely be persuaded by evolution.



I am open-minded and on the fence and am not "definitely persuaded by evolution" :rolleyes:




You are on the fence on whether or not evolution is true? LOL. :loldongs:


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InvisibleMagicman69
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Confucian] * 1
    #19363347 - 01/03/14 01:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's not stupid at all. Evolution teaches the big bang as a fact, yet fails to answer the most fundamental question. How did the matter come into existence, if not by creation?


Edited by Magicman69 (01/03/14 01:10 PM)


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Confucian]
    #19363360 - 01/03/14 01:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:


You are on the fence on whether or not evolution is true? LOL. :loldongs:



More reading comprehension problems. No, I am on the fence about the existence of supernatural causes. Microevolution can be demonstrated with fruit flies in the comfort of your own home; macroevolution is evident in archeological and geological evidence.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19363381 - 01/03/14 01:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:

Its not a lack of creativity, thats how the gods have been defined.  Jumping through logical hoops to define a new god of the gaps is not being creative, its a post hoc defense mechanism.  When new evidence comes out, the possible realm of god has to be redefined and every time its redefined smaller and smaller. 

Appealing to the possibility of supernatural powers is appealing to a possibility in spite of evidence, not a probability supported by evidence.  Considering probabilities promotes wisdom, considering possibilities promotes ignorance.



No it doesn't. Do you think Einstein's theory of relativity was considered to be probable until he conceived of it. Just because you consider possibilites doesn't mean you accept them. It's an attitude of open-mindedness. Looking at things that are supposedly "probably true" and assuming that they are true is has led to innumerable beliefs that are now considered to be ridiculous. See Ptolemaic astronomy for one simple example.




Nope.  Einstein's theory was considered probable and ptolemaic astronomy was not and is not ridiculous.  This is typical anti science crap.  Nobody says that you have to consider probabilities to be true, that is more anti science crap.


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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Magicman69]
    #19363385 - 01/03/14 01:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Magicman69 said:
It's not stupid at all. Evolution teaches the big bang as a fact, yet fails to answer the most fundamental question. How did the matter come into existence?



And your theory fails to address the question of how God came into existence. This is typically explained away by simply defining God as Autogenes; self-created, but Creationists fail to realize that materialists can simply say the same thing about matter at T1, the "beginning of time." Which to me is almost a silly idea in and of itself.


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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19363389 - 01/03/14 01:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Confucian said:


You are on the fence on whether or not evolution is true? LOL. :loldongs:



More reading comprehension problems. No, I am on the fence about the existence of supernatural causes. Microevolution can be demonstrated with fruit flies in the comfort of your own home; macroevolution is evident in archeological and geological evidence.




You think some Big Huge Tall Super Alien Dude/Chick Thing is sitting on his fat ass somewhere creating and destroying universes, galaxies, stars, solar systems, and planets. :goodluckwiththat:


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Offlineqman
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Magicman69] * 1
    #19363395 - 01/03/14 01:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Magicman69 said:
It's not stupid at all. Evolution teaches the big bang as a fact, yet fails to answer the most fundamental question. How did the matter come into existence, if not by creation?




Evolution and the big bang are two separate issues.

"How did the matter come into existence" 

No one knows, that doesn't mean we should make up answers and call it truth.


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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19363398 - 01/03/14 01:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Evolutionary theory should be taught; however, more attention should be given to its possible flaws. Children should not be taught that it is almost certain our human exist is a result of a macroevolutionary process that began with "inorganic matter".




There's more evidence pointing towards that than there is towards some kind of cybernetic cosmic consciousness placing the first few organic cells into our oceans, so why not teach it until we have a better answer?

The creationists say, "Both should be taught in schools with equal time devoted to each."

The logical say, "Don't teach religion in science classes, save it for Sunday school."

You pesky agnostics say, "Don't teach either unless they are 100% proven," but also, "Nothing can be 100% proven."


--------------------


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19363400 - 01/03/14 01:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Microevolution can be demonstrated with fruit flies in the comfort of your own home; macroevolution is evident in archeological and geological evidence.




The distinction between the two is only important to creationists.  They created the distinction in one of their many post hoc defense mechanisms.  You are using creationist jargon.


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InvisibleMe_Roy
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Crystal G]
    #19363404 - 01/03/14 01:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
I am from Japan. My relatives are all from Japan. I've asked them about the dolphin slaughter in Japan after watching the cove. They all said it is only one village in Japan that eats dolphin. Nobody else does it. And nobody eats whales often anymore, because frankly whales don't taste good. I've eaten it, and it tastes like really fatty pork, except it doesn't taste as good as pork. It's just blubber.

If you care to elaborate who else in Japan eats dolphin, I'd be glad to know about it.




Jeezus, your argument is weak.

First you supply the anecdote that everyone you've talked to in Japan says that only people from one village eat dolphin.

Then you say that no one eats whale anymore.

Then you say that you yourself have eaten whale...

...as if the shift from something being available to a peon like you (or me for that matter) and being available to no one at all would happen overnight.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: DieCommie]
    #19363405 - 01/03/14 01:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:

Its not a lack of creativity, thats how the gods have been defined.  Jumping through logical hoops to define a new god of the gaps is not being creative, its a post hoc defense mechanism.  When new evidence comes out, the possible realm of god has to be redefined and every time its redefined smaller and smaller. 

Appealing to the possibility of supernatural powers is appealing to a possibility in spite of evidence, not a probability supported by evidence.  Considering probabilities promotes wisdom, considering possibilities promotes ignorance.



No it doesn't. Do you think Einstein's theory of relativity was considered to be probable until he conceived of it. Just because you consider possibilites doesn't mean you accept them. It's an attitude of open-mindedness. Looking at things that are supposedly "probably true" and assuming that they are true is has led to innumerable beliefs that are now considered to be ridiculous. See Ptolemaic astronomy for one simple example.




Nope.  Einstein's theory was considered probable and ptolemaic astronomy was not and is not ridiculous.  This is typical anti science crap.  Nobody says that you have to consider probabilities to be true, that is more anti science crap.



If Ptolemaic theory was not considered to be probably, it wouldn't have been the accepted theory for a millenium. It was impossible to conceive that Einsteins theory was probable because nobody conceived of it prior to its conception. That is abundantly clear. There is no need to resort to base name-calling unless you either lack substantive argumentation or are too lazy to engage in productive discussion. To say that something is "anti science crap" is redundant in light of the fact that you have already made it clear that you do not agree.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Confucian]
    #19363417 - 01/03/14 01:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Confucian said:


You are on the fence on whether or not evolution is true? LOL. :loldongs:



More reading comprehension problems. No, I am on the fence about the existence of supernatural causes. Microevolution can be demonstrated with fruit flies in the comfort of your own home; macroevolution is evident in archeological and geological evidence.




You think some Big Huge Tall Super Alien Dude/Chick Thing is sitting on his fat ass somewhere creating and destroying universes, galaxies, stars, solar systems, and planets. :goodluckwiththat:



I presented one possible supernatural cause at the bottom of page 3, and I believe you will find that it is more involved and elaborate than the one you have presented. I do not, however, accept it as true simply because I have presented it. This is a process that comes easily to me.


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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: DieCommie]
    #19363423 - 01/03/14 01:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Microevolution can be demonstrated with fruit flies in the comfort of your own home; macroevolution is evident in archeological and geological evidence.




The distinction between the two is only important to creationists.  They created the distinction in one of their many post hoc defense mechanisms.  You are using creationist jargon.



Interesting, because I learned this terminology in my physical anthropology class.


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #19363427 - 01/03/14 01:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
If Ptolemaic theory was not considered to be probably, it wouldn't have been the accepted theory for a millenium. It was impossible to conceive that Einsteins theory was probable because nobody conceived of it prior to its conception. That is abundantly clear. There is no need to resort to base name-calling unless you either lack substantive argumentation or are too lazy to engage in productive discussion. To say that something is "anti science crap" is redundant in light of the fact that you have already made it clear that you do not agree.




You dont know what you are talking about.  Ptolemic theory was good science, it was not ridiculous.  As a model it accurately described observations to a very high degree for hundreds of years.  Nobody conceived of Einsteins theory?  What about Lorentz and Poincare?  They very much conceived of it.  Calling it "Einstein's theory" is a tactic of science deniers.  Its not "Einstein's theory" in the same way that evolution is not "Darwin's Theory".  You are ignorant of basic science history, parrot creationist jargon and mischaracterize the realm of science.  Yes, you are promoting anti science crap.


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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: RiderOnTheStorm]
    #19363435 - 01/03/14 01:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RiderOnTheStorm said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Evolutionary theory should be taught; however, more attention should be given to its possible flaws. Children should not be taught that it is almost certain our human exist is a result of a macroevolutionary process that began with "inorganic matter".




There's more evidence pointing towards that than there is towards some kind of cybernetic cosmic consciousness placing the first few organic cells into our oceans, so why not teach it until we have a better answer?

The creationists say, "Both should be taught in schools with equal time devoted to each."

The logical say, "Don't teach religion in science classes, save it for Sunday school."

You pesky agnostics say, "Don't teach either unless they are 100% proven," but also, "Nothing can be 100% proven."



I didn't say don't teach either. I believe various important theories should be taught as theories which attempt to explain specific phenomena, with emphasis on their potential internal contradictions made clear during the instruction. This will allow for the theories to be refined and improved at a more efficient rate.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19363443 - 01/03/14 01:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Microevolution can be demonstrated with fruit flies in the comfort of your own home; macroevolution is evident in archeological and geological evidence.




The distinction between the two is only important to creationists.  They created the distinction in one of their many post hoc defense mechanisms.  You are using creationist jargon.



Interesting, because I learned this terminology in my physical anthropology class.




I dont get it.  Why does where you learned of the terms make it interesting?  Did you learn them from a creationist?  It is creationist jargon.
http://www.discovercreation.org/newsletters/Macroevolutionvs.Microevolution.htm


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