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OfflineCrystal G
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Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Set]
    #19362169 - 01/03/14 05:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Set said:
Well then you'll have to post a pic to prove it :snub:

Actually I loved the Japanese girls that I met.  My host brother was like a Japanese Zach Morris (we were 16) so he brought some tail. 

I guess the problem was the smiles.  Haggard teeth with Japanese girls.  Japan doesn't have the orthodontic considerations that the USA has.

Tokyo was awesome but I actually met one of the best looking girls I've ever met in my life while walking the beach in Yokohama.

She was a surfer, probably ~20, and completely beautiful.  Nice teeth too.  I still think about her...






Ohhhh, the reason that you didn't find Japanese girls attractive is because you went when you were 16. In Japan, high schools completely prohibit girls from wearing any makeup. That is why Japanese girls look completely ordinary, until they turn around age 18-20. That is the age they start dressing up, doing their hair, and putting on makeup, and they start becoming really beautiful women.

These days I think native Japanese women are much, much more beautiful than Asian women in America.

I'm kind of weird, but I personally love crooked teeth. I think it looks adorable. I love British and Japanese teeth, I think the crooked teeth makes them look super cute.


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Crystal G]
    #19362178 - 01/03/14 06:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

These are the types of typical Japanese girls I see in Tokyo;



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InvisibleShins
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: mindOmy]
    #19362194 - 01/03/14 06:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Bill Nye's a douche.  Hes not even a real scientist he's a children's entertainer....


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Crystal G]
    #19362397 - 01/03/14 08:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
:rofl::suicide: you've gotta be fucking kidding me. What is your degree in, again? Business? Get the fuck out of here. Your statement is so blatantly outrageous that I am not even going to waste one smidgeon of my time actually debating it with you. I'm just going to make fun of you in this post for being ignorant as fuck. Normally you seem pretty intelligent but holy shit, what a load. I'm going to sleep. PEACE




Butthurt much? What are you, PMSing? I don't even know what it is you are angry about. :lol: You seem like a guy with an inferiority complex, for blowing such a small comment out of proportion and taking it to heart. "Boohoo I'm smarty pants, you stupid, boohoo!" WAAAHAHHAAHA



Uh no, you are are just making WAY too drastic of an assumption. Newsflash: I happen to be an EXTREMELY well-read individual who is definitely familiar with MANY of the atheist arguments that come out the theory of evolution, though I'm not sure which ones you're referring to when you say "the arguments". Normally I am very soft-spoken, but do you have any idea how arrogant it is to assume that if someone believes in God, it means they aren't familiar with the arguments for evolution? Do you have any idea how many Christian biologists there are? My sponsor in AA actually happens to be an evolutionary Biology professor (that is why I chose him, because I was having a hard time with the fact that the steps essentially call for divine intervention, yet that is his profession and he is able to work the program) and is definitely NOT an atheist. I'm not trying to be a smartypants, you're the one you thinks you're a smartypants and makes outrageous assumptions because of it.

What kind of books did you read that led you to believe these kinds of things anyway? Dawkins?


Edited by morrowasted (01/03/14 08:22 AM)


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19362471 - 01/03/14 08:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Why don't you elaborate on what your own position is then, because it's becoming difficult to follow what exactly you're arguing about at this point.

One thing this Ken Ham dude writes about is how portions of Darwin's writings laid the foundations for "scientific" racism. I think that's somewhat of a fair point on it's own, but it's neither here nor there in terms of modern evolutionary theory. I think a lot of creationists attack Darwin's work because it's simpler than addressing more recent thought on the topic. They are also used to thinking in dogmatic terms, so perhaps they honestly believe that evolutionary theory sees Darwin's writings as being set in stone.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: psi]
    #19362512 - 01/03/14 09:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My position is simple.I believe that there are many truths of which I am unaware.

Don't get me wrong, natural selection makes near-perfect sense, and microevolution almost certainly is happening, and certain macrovolutionary processes have also happened, if we assume that time is actually moving in the direction our perceptual experiences leads us to believe it is moving.

I do not see how those things in any way imply anything whatsoever about the possible existence or nonexistence of supernatural powers with interventionary wills, however.

It seems to me that perhaps people who lack creativity get confused because they think that belief in such powers is limited to religious traditions. It's as though they look at things this way: People only saw religious explanations for the existence of man until a certain point, and now that there is one possible alternative explanation, we should just accept it, reject all concepts that appear within explanatory hypotheses of religious origin, and fail to consider any other possible alternatives, or even any concept which shares its name but differs from it in essential qualitative respects which might render it plausible.


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OfflineMisterSandman
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19362592 - 01/03/14 09:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I have a feeling this is how the debate is going to go.....



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Invisiblepsi
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19362621 - 01/03/14 09:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
My position is simple.I believe that there are many truths of which I am unaware.

Don't get me wrong, natural selection makes near-perfect sense, and microevolution almost certainly is happening, and certain macrovolutionary processes have also happened, if we assume that time is actually moving in the direction our perceptual experiences leads us to believe it is moving.

I do not see how those things in any way imply anything whatsoever about the possible existence or nonexistence of supernatural powers with interventionary wills, however.

It seems to me that perhaps people who lack creativity get confused because they think that belief in such powers is limited to religious traditions. It's as though they look at things this way: People only saw religious explanations for the existence of man until a certain point, and now that there is one possible alternative explanation, we should just accept it, reject all concepts that appear within explanatory hypotheses of religious origin, and fail to consider any other possible alternatives, or even any concept which shares its name but differs from it in essential qualitative respects which might render it plausible.




I would say I agree with the bulk of that. Personally I doubt that Nye's intent is to try to demonstrate the nonexistence of God as you implied earlier in the thread though. His area of interest is science and he wants to debate with a guy who claims that young earth creationism is scientifically valid.


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19362712 - 01/03/14 10:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
My position is simple.I believe that there are many truths of which I am unaware.

Don't get me wrong, natural selection makes near-perfect sense, and microevolution almost certainly is happening, and certain macrovolutionary processes have also happened, if we assume that time is actually moving in the direction our perceptual experiences leads us to believe it is moving.

I do not see how those things in any way imply anything whatsoever about the possible existence or nonexistence of supernatural powers with interventionary wills, however.

It seems to me that perhaps people who lack creativity get confused because they think that belief in such powers is limited to religious traditions.




Its not a lack of creativity, thats how the gods have been defined.  Jumping through logical hoops to define a new god of the gaps is not being creative, its a post hoc defense mechanism.  When new evidence comes out, the possible realm of god has to be redefined and every time its redefined smaller and smaller. 

Appealing to the possibility of supernatural powers is appealing to a possibility in spite of evidence, not a probability supported by evidence.  Considering probabilities promotes wisdom, considering possibilities promotes ignorance.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: DieCommie] * 1
    #19363102 - 01/03/14 12:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

People only saw religious explanations for the existence of man until a certain point, and now that there is one possible alternative explanation, we should just accept it, reject all concepts that appear within explanatory hypotheses of religious origin, and fail to consider any other possible alternatives,





The bible is full of scientific fallacies. Why would I want to believe in writings that are thousands of years old and have no scientific merit. If god was so powerful and all-knowing, you would think he would be a little more accurate with the scientific aspects  . . .


--------------------
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I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19363110 - 01/03/14 12:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm gonna watch this debate just to see the ridiculous argument that Ham guy has to offer.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: DieCommie]
    #19363176 - 01/03/14 12:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:

Its not a lack of creativity, thats how the gods have been defined.  Jumping through logical hoops to define a new god of the gaps is not being creative, its a post hoc defense mechanism.  When new evidence comes out, the possible realm of god has to be redefined and every time its redefined smaller and smaller. 

Appealing to the possibility of supernatural powers is appealing to a possibility in spite of evidence, not a probability supported by evidence.  Considering probabilities promotes wisdom, considering possibilities promotes ignorance.



No it doesn't. Do you think Einstein's theory of relativity was considered to be probable until he conceived of it. Just because you consider possibilites doesn't mean you accept them. It's an attitude of open-mindedness. Looking at things that are supposedly "probably true" and assuming that they are true is has led to innumerable beliefs that are now considered to be ridiculous. See Ptolemaic astronomy for one simple example.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19363184 - 01/03/14 12:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Quote:

People only saw religious explanations for the existence of man until a certain point, and now that there is one possible alternative explanation, we should just accept it, reject all concepts that appear within explanatory hypotheses of religious origin, and fail to consider any other possible alternatives,





The bible is full of scientific fallacies. Why would I want to believe in writings that are thousands of years old and have no scientific merit. If god was so powerful and all-knowing, you would think he would be a little more accurate with the scientific aspects  . . .


You are talking about a Biblical deity. I have already stated that I am not.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19363201 - 01/03/14 12:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You are talking about the bible however, which was allegedly transcribed from god (a deity)


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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Invisibleabltsandwich
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: Patlal]
    #19363207 - 01/03/14 12:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Y'all are all missing the point.  No one is going to watch this debate when Duck Dynasty and Honey BooBoo are showing on other channels.  This science shit is getting out of hand.  We're much better pacifists when we're distracted by irrelevance..


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19363212 - 01/03/14 12:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
You are talking about the bible however, which was allegedly transcribed from god (a deity)



Practice your reading comprehension

Quote:

It seems to me that perhaps people who lack creativity get confused because they think that belief in such powers is limited to religious traditions. It's as though they look at things this way: People only saw religious explanations for the existence of man until a certain point, and now that there is one possible alternative explanation, we should just accept it, reject all concepts that appear within explanatory hypotheses of religious origin, and fail to consider any other possible alternatives, or even any concept which shares its name but differs from it in essential qualitative respects which might render it plausible.




I am not trying to debate whether or not the God of the Bible has anything to do with the existence of man. I am stating that belief in supernatural causes for man's existence are not limited to religious paradigms.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19363257 - 01/03/14 12:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
You are talking about the bible however, which was allegedly transcribed from god (a deity)



Practice your reading comprehension

My reading comprehension is fine. And I was not just referring t o that one single post. And in the following post you are definitely talking about belief in a biblical god:


Quote:

Normally I am very soft-spoken, but do you have any idea how arrogant it is to assume that if someone believes in God, it means they aren't familiar with the arguments for evolution? Do you have any idea how many Christian biologists there are? My sponsor in AA actually happens to be an evolutionary Biology professor (that is why I chose him, because I was having a hard time with the fact that the steps essentially call for divine intervention, yet that is his profession and he is able to work the program) and is definitely NOT an atheist.




Your arguments are pretty vague and you do not make it very clear what you are in fact trying to argue. My mistake if I got the impression that you do in fact believe in god, but that is what I got out of you posts in this thread.


I am curious to know what are other supernatural beliefs in the causes for mans existence that do not have to do with religion and are not completely outdated?


--------------------
Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery

I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
- Ken Kesey


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InvisibleRiderOnTheStorm
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19363273 - 01/03/14 12:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
I am open-minded and on the fence and am not "definitely persuaded by evolution" :rolleyes:




Quote:

morrowasted said:
Don't get me wrong, natural selection makes near-perfect sense, and microevolution almost certainly is happening, and certain macrovolutionary processes have also happened, if we assume that time is actually moving in the direction our perceptual experiences leads us to believe it is moving.




Really? Certainly sounds like you found the arguments persuasive to me. Nobody is saying that you should take scientific theory as dogma, only that we shouldn't have to take your dogma as scientific theory.

Nye is going to talk about what he always talks about, that children attending school do not need to be taught your speculations about what deities may or may not exist, or what role they may have played in the processes of evolution.

Evolution is a well formed theory with loads of evidence backing it up from a wide range of sciences. There is an overwhelming consensus on how the pieces fit together and there's an overwhelmingly coherent curriculum for teaching it.

Creationism is a poorly formed dogma with absolutely no empirical evidence supporting it from any one of the sciences. There is little to no consensus on what pieces can be jammed where and the curriculum surrounding it is religious texts. The entire thing can be summed up in one sentence, "We don't really know anything for sure so it must have been god."

The two do not belong side by side in schools, this is a well documented passion of Dr. Nye's and it's what anybody reasonable would expect from this debate.


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OfflineThe Vapor
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: morrowasted]
    #19363289 - 01/03/14 12:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
dumb. whenever a "scientist" wastes time addressing the existence or nonexistence of god [s]he instantly loses so much respect in my eyes. just do science. people who believe in god arent going to watch that shit and change their mind




I don't know if you have quotation around scientist because you don't think he is a legitimate scientist or what, but he graduated from Cornell with a BSc (where one of his professors was Carl Sagan). He then went on to be a mechanical engineer at Boeing. His specialty might not necessarily be the topic being debated, but I'm sure he is a learned guy.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: ‘Science Guy’ Bill Nye plans debate on Creation Museum [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19363295 - 01/03/14 12:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's pretty sad to me that people read my posts and say things like:

Quote:

I got the impression that you do in fact believe in god, but that is what I got out of you posts in this thread.






Quote:

I am curious to know what are other supernatural beliefs in the causes for mans existence that do not have to do with religion and are not completely outdated?




Quote:

My position is simple.I believe that there are many truths of which I am unaware.




If I am unaware of the supernatural causes, then I cannot tell you what they are. I simply take the position that they could exist. However, if you really want to press me, I could argue that free will is itself a supernatural cause and could be responsible for man's existence. Here is my response to Step Two of the 12 steps, in which I was asked to envision for myself a Higher Power which could restore me to sanity:

Quote:

I am an agnostic in the strict sense of the word. Gnosis means "mystical or spiritual knowledge" and the prefix A- means "without". I take this even further, I assume the position of epistemic skepticism, which means I believe that I have no knowledge of the outside world whatsoever; instead, I continually form beliefs in response to environment stimuli which have varying levels of efficacy. The level of efficacy generally determines whether a given belief is discarded or retained for future employment.

I currently believe that there are many powers greater than myself to which I am subjected on a constant basis. Scientists have attempted to describe many of these powers in terms of laws and principles, primarily in the areas of physics and chemistry, but have as yet failed to do so with predictive precision, as evidenced by the probabilistic nature of calculations performed at the quantum level. If we assume a linear system of causal connection (A -> B -> C -> D rather than A -> B; A -> C; A -> D or something else), this appears to imply that there is(/are) some element(s) missing from their metaphysical descriptions which is(/are) nevertheless inextricably bound to it(/them). Let us call one of these elements "free will". Let us suppose a dichotomy between the quantifiable (i.e. physical/material) world and free will, and assume a causal feedback connection between the two such that free will is primary and the quantifiable is secondary.

Though the language is perhaps burdensome, it seems to me that what falls out of this system is actually a type of Creationism. It appears to me that Creation is an ongoing, as-yet incomplete and never-to-be completed process which results from the interaction between free will and that which is quantifiable. I suspect that perceptual experiences place "boundary-limits" on free will relative to that which is quantifiable, resulting in what we might call a "co-Creative" process, in which the recipients of perceptual experiences may collaborate in order to increase the relative complexity of the quantifiable portion of the system. This means that originally there was perception, then there was the quantifiable, then there was a casual feedback connection between the two, which has been increasing in complexity ever since. It seems to me that this process most closely though not precisely depicted Chapter 42 of the Tao Te Ching,

Tao produces one
One produces two
Two produce three
Three produce myriad things
Myriad things, backed by yin and embracing yang
Achieve harmony by integrating their energy

Gordon Globus perhaps comes closest to scientifically documenting the interaction between mind and matter according to the views I have just outlined in his paper "Quantum Consciousness is Cybernetic".




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