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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Developing calm, attentive focus
    #19353320 - 01/01/14 12:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

For those of you who have spent time working on your quality of focus, or attention, what methods have you used and how effective have they been?

I want to work on being able to hold my attention for longer periods and having a more relaxed mind. I feel like the two sort of go hand in hand; by stilling the noise in my mind (relaxing) there are less tensions and distractions in the way.

I'm quite tired and hungover today so I could probably articulate this post a bit better if need be. Anyway, please share your experiences :sun:

Happy 2014 shroomery!


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InvisibleRoger Wilco
Rusted Identifier

Registered: 06/08/13
Posts: 970
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: birdland]
    #19353507 - 01/01/14 02:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

When I do things that interest me, and that I enjoy, and that require engagement, I feel I am able to be the most focused and attentive.

Hunting mushrooms in a forest is great for calm and peace. Being interested in learning about taxonomy keeps me attentive and engaged with the habitat, and to the more subtle feature of the finds.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: birdland]
    #19353675 - 01/01/14 04:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Many traditional practices of focus/concentration/attention get you to put your attention on something for as long as you can, it can be anything, an externally perceived object, basically anything you can look at, a picture, a wall, a candle flame, or you can use internally perceived objects like sticking to one thought (mantra), i find the most calming though is to focus on focus, put attention on attention, it's subtle, but the more you do it the calmer you become

'when attention pays attention to attention that is attention'


--------------------


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OfflineSammysong
Dreamer
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Registered: 09/09/12
Posts: 584
Loc: Idios kosmos
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: Chronic7]
    #19353850 - 01/01/14 06:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

L-theanine, it helps. Zen-Buddhists used it for a relaxed, yet attentive and focused state.


--------------------


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: Chronic7]
    #19356291 - 01/01/14 09:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Many traditional practices of focus/concentration/attention get you to put your attention on something for as long as you can, it can be anything, an externally perceived object, basically anything you can look at, a picture, a wall, a candle flame, or you can use internally perceived objects like sticking to one thought (mantra), i find the most calming though is to focus on focus, put attention on attention, it's subtle, but the more you do it the calmer you become

'when attention pays attention to attention that is attention'




I've tried a meditation where I just sit and watch my breathe to mixed results. Sometimes it puts me in a great relaxed and present space that also makes sleeping easy (which as an insomniac is a fucking godsend), at other times I really notice no changes afterwards.

I'd like to take this up again but was somewhat curious if there are other exercises I should give a go too.

Perhaps there is something to the last part of your post that I'm missing, but I don't really know how to put attention on attention. I'm not even sure what you mean by that. Care to elaborate a bit?


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Invisiblenooneman
Male

Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,608
Loc: Utah
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: birdland]
    #19356330 - 01/01/14 09:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

birdland said:
For those of you who have spent time working on your quality of focus, or attention, what methods have you used



Amphetamine.

Quote:

and how effective have they been?



Very.


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: birdland]
    #19357108 - 01/02/14 02:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

birdland said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
Many traditional practices of focus/concentration/attention get you to put your attention on something for as long as you can, it can be anything, an externally perceived object, basically anything you can look at, a picture, a wall, a candle flame, or you can use internally perceived objects like sticking to one thought (mantra), i find the most calming though is to focus on focus, put attention on attention, it's subtle, but the more you do it the calmer you become

'when attention pays attention to attention that is attention'




I've tried a meditation where I just sit and watch my breathe to mixed results. Sometimes it puts me in a great relaxed and present space that also makes sleeping easy (which as an insomniac is a fucking godsend), at other times I really notice no changes afterwards.

I'd like to take this up again but was somewhat curious if there are other exercises I should give a go too.

Perhaps there is something to the last part of your post that I'm missing, but I don't really know how to put attention on attention. I'm not even sure what you mean by that. Care to elaborate a bit?





This is the sort of question that no one can really answer for you. There are a vast majority of spiritual practices out there, which almost all serve to still the mind and increase focus but which are best for you is largely a matter of what you feel personally drawn to.

Following the breath is always good but you can't be attached to the results. Sometimes it might make your mind quieter, other times it might bring up things from your unconscious that you haven't dealt with and make your mind less quiet. They key is to stick with it no matter what happens and another key is not to practice with the idea of gaining some kind of result from it.

I am going to explain a little about how these practices work and this will also answer your question about placing attention on attention it.

So, the idea in Buddhism for instance, is that we already have Buddha nature we just don't realize it. So its actually our nature to be alert, and focused and attentive but we dont see this because our minds have grown accustomed to endless wandering. So because attention is your true nature, there is actually no need to practice concentration or focus or attention, you are that. So why do we practice then? Only because we have forgotten that we are that. Now, what does the practice do? Concentration practices create friction between our wandering mind and our real nature. This is helpful, especially for beginners but its important to remember that the highest forms of practice involve little to no effort, you simply are.

Placing attention on attention itself, is a means to help us see that we are naturally awake and naturally focused.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: birdland]
    #19357113 - 01/02/14 02:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

birdland said:


I'm quite tired and hungover today so I could probably articulate this post a bit better if need be. Anyway, please share your experiences :sun:!





Listen to the static, tinnitus-like hisssss that encapsulates the signals your hungover brain receives until it drives you crazy.  That's my advice.  :cheers:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Invisiblecez
 User Gallery
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19357174 - 01/02/14 03:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:lol::thumbup:


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19357322 - 01/02/14 04:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Sammysong said:
L-theanine, it helps. Zen-Buddhists used it for a relaxed, yet attentive and focused state.



Sounds pretty good actually
Quote:

Able to cross the blood–brain barrier, theanine has psychoactive properties.[10] Theanine has been studied for its potential ability to reduce mental and physical stress,[11] improve cognition,[12] and boost mood and cognitive performance in a synergistic manner with caffeine.



Do you use it yourself?
Quote:

Amphetamine.



I like amphetamine but I don't like the side effects. I know you use really tiny doses, do you get side effects with those doses? I feel like 5mg probably wouldn't affect me anymore. After a few large doses it just seems to have permanently raised my threshold :sad:

Thanks Deviate :smile2:

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Quote:

birdland said:


I'm quite tired and hungover today so I could probably articulate this post a bit better if need be. Anyway, please share your experiences :sun:!





Listen to the static, tinnitus-like hisssss that encapsulates the signals your hungover brain receives until it drives you crazy.  That's my advice.  :cheers:



:hehehe:  :paperbag: :finger:

you're right :sadyes:


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: birdland]
    #19357526 - 01/02/14 07:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

birdland said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
Many traditional practices of focus/concentration/attention get you to put your attention on something for as long as you can, it can be anything, an externally perceived object, basically anything you can look at, a picture, a wall, a candle flame, or you can use internally perceived objects like sticking to one thought (mantra), i find the most calming though is to focus on focus, put attention on attention, it's subtle, but the more you do it the calmer you become

'when attention pays attention to attention that is attention'




I've tried a meditation where I just sit and watch my breathe to mixed results. Sometimes it puts me in a great relaxed and present space that also makes sleeping easy (which as an insomniac is a fucking godsend), at other times I really notice no changes afterwards.

I'd like to take this up again but was somewhat curious if there are other exercises I should give a go too.

Perhaps there is something to the last part of your post that I'm missing, but I don't really know how to put attention on attention. I'm not even sure what you mean by that. Care to elaborate a bit?




It's meant to bring attention back to it's source

So as attention drifts with thoughts, sensations, you keep bringing it back to it's source by bringing it back to the sense of self, there's not actually some 'thing' to put attention 'on' though which is why it may seem different, you're not putting attention on a 'thing' as usual, you just keep drawing it away from things and back to yourself, back to self-awareness, where attention calms & finally dissolves, until then you use it though by bringing it back to where it springs from, yourself


--------------------


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Offlinenicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard
Male User Gallery


Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 7 months
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: birdland]
    #19357536 - 01/02/14 08:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There will be times in meditation where it feels like it's working. There will be times when it doesn't. It always is working. It's a long term reward. The short term benefits can be very difficult to perceive. Requires a certain investment of "faith" IMO. Eventually I find things just falling into place in unusual ways in my life that seem kind of uncanny. Strange coincidences and synchronicities.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19357555 - 01/02/14 08:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
There will be times in meditation where it feels like it's working. There will be times when it doesn't. It always is working. It's a long term reward. The short term benefits can be very difficult to perceive. Requires a certain investment of "faith" IMO. Eventually I find things just falling into place in unusual ways in my life that seem kind of uncanny. Strange coincidences and synchronicities.




Oh yeah I hear you man. I always start for a few days or even a couple of weeks but then just end up stopping, like I'll miss a day and then fall out of the habit. I guess it doesn't have that emotional pull on me that immediately rewarding activities do, and it's not a necessity like going to work or cleaning the house, so it's hard to keep the motivation.

Also thanks for clearing that up Chronic, it's tough work though :tongue2:


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OfflineSammysong
Dreamer
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Registered: 09/09/12
Posts: 584
Loc: Idios kosmos
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: birdland]
    #19366707 - 01/04/14 02:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, I use Gula Java Matcha. A mix between Japanese matcha green tea with coconut blossom powder.
It gives you 5-6 hours of relaxed, attentive concentration.


--------------------


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OfflinePositive
theArchitect

Registered: 08/20/11
Posts: 138
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: Sammysong]
    #19373949 - 01/05/14 05:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think you are talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology).


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: birdland] * 1
    #19374286 - 01/05/14 06:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

stare at a candle for 10 minutes a day.  Keep bringing your attention back to it when it wavers.  Start with one or two minutes and work up.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: birdland]
    #19374443 - 01/05/14 07:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

birdland said:
Quote:

nicechrisman said:
There will be times in meditation where it feels like it's working. There will be times when it doesn't. It always is working. It's a long term reward. The short term benefits can be very difficult to perceive. Requires a certain investment of "faith" IMO. Eventually I find things just falling into place in unusual ways in my life that seem kind of uncanny. Strange coincidences and synchronicities.




Oh yeah I hear you man. I always start for a few days or even a couple of weeks but then just end up stopping, like I'll miss a day and then fall out of the habit. I guess it doesn't have that emotional pull on me that immediately rewarding activities do, and it's not a necessity like going to work or cleaning the house, so it's hard to keep the motivation.

Also thanks for clearing that up Chronic, it's tough work though :tongue2:





Yes, that is the difficult part with the spiritual path. At times it can be very rewarding but there are also long and difficult periods where it is not rewarding at all, I mean not only is it not rewarding but it is the exact opposite of what the ego self wants. That is why so few people make real progress in meditation. They would rather chase after temporary pleasures. Many of the people who are really serious about spiritual insight are people who suffered a great deal in their egoic lives and decided that they just could not suffer anymore and had to find another way no matter what the cost. If youre not at that point, it can be very difficult to stay motivated during "dry" periods (thats a term we use in reference to prayer not sure if meditators use a different term) but everyone must deal with these periods and like someone else said its always working, that's why faith is so important. In the theistic religions faith is paramount but even in Zen Buddhism, which does not speak much if at all about gods and things, faith is still paramount, faith that one has Buddha nature. Without that faith, how can you stay motivated when nothing seems to be working?


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Invisiblebirdland

Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 2,202
Re: Developing calm, attentive focus [Re: Icelander]
    #19380946 - 01/07/14 04:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Positive said:
I think you are talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology).




I've had discussions in class about flow as it relates to music and improvisation, and yes, that is essentially what I'm talking about.

What I'm looking for though is ways in which I can practise getting in to this state and maintaing it. I'm also looking to develop a calmer mind for all those other times when I'm not engaged in intense or serious activities.

Quote:

Icelander said:
stare at a candle for 10 minutes a day.  Keep bringing your attention back to it when it wavers.  Start with one or two minutes and work up.



Sounds straightforward and logical; I'll give it a go :smile:

Quote:

Without that faith, how can you stay motivated when nothing seems to be working?



I find it hard to have faith in anything but my own experience and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I leave an open mind to most everything though


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