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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #19358012 - 01/02/14 11:32 AM (10 years, 29 days ago)

best bet to learn cakes regardless, there great for iso testing once you get into it, do both bulk and cakes and its a win win:cool:


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InvisibleMudaFuka
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: cronicr]
    #19358045 - 01/02/14 11:44 AM (10 years, 29 days ago)

for testing isolated strains I can see how cakes would make sense. I just don't think new growers should be afraid of bulk.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: MudaFuka]
    #19358048 - 01/02/14 11:45 AM (10 years, 29 days ago)

neither do i:thumbup: if it were up to me they would start with mono's cakes gh's and outdoor beds taking clones and making iso's the whole time:rockon:
this hobby is only as hard and complicated as you make it to be


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


Edited by cronicr (01/02/14 11:51 AM)


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Offlinenewera
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: cronicr]
    #19358134 - 01/02/14 12:06 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

i started with both grains and the pf tek along with the brf agar substitue:thumbup:


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OfflineDetectiveLefty
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: monoculture]
    #19358158 - 01/02/14 12:10 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Opinion around here seems to be that PF tek 15 4 n00bz, but that's kind of the point. PF tek only requires mixing and sterilizing *one* substrate, no PC, no agar, no isolating strains, no casing layer, etc., so it's that much less commitment if/when you've f**ked it up.

If, on the other hand, it's more important for you to be seen as a "real" grower by the weirdos back in the bait shop, by all means get the PC, some agar & dishes, WBS/rye grains, coir/manure substrate, casing, quart jars, filter disks, trays/monotubs, set up a clean room with laminar flow hood, and do bulk :smile:


Edited by DetectiveLefty (01/02/14 12:11 PM)


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Invisibleelasticaltiger
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: cronicr]
    #19358189 - 01/02/14 12:16 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

I don't think anyone is arguing the ease of bulk grows.

PF Tek will give success for sure and has an established recipe and a start to finish video.

There is a serious lack of a perfect start to finish bulk tek. (cept for psillyshroomers.)

If he's anything like me, he's first going to run around trying to find rye berries then spending tons of time researching which grain is the best.  Then he's going to freak out whether or not he should use tyvek or polyfill or SFDs or micropore tape.  Then he'll wonder if he should case or not and then maybe he's confused about hole placement on the monotub and then he wonders if he should have started with LC or agar.  What if he forgets gypsum or buys the wrong kind of coir by accident?

The information is just much more scattered and hard to piece together for newcomers. 

Bulk grows are plenty easy after you've done it once and got your system straight. Again no ones arguing that.

But PF Tek has a tried and true recipe and can be done with easily available stuff on the cheap.  Most newcomers just 'want some shrooms right away' and PF Tek gives them assured success while also giving them time to research all the bulk data for their next grow.

Wasn't trying to compete with you rbalzer.  If I wanted to do that I would have suggested VTek a la anne :tongue:


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19358419 - 01/02/14 01:05 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

i remember those times like it was yesterday! DID I GET THE RIGHT GRAINS?COUL THERE BE FUNGICIDE IN THEM?DID I SOAK LONG ENOUGH?FUCK I THINK I BURSTED A GRAIN!IS THIS POLLYFILL THE RIGHT STUFF?FUCK I FORGOT TO SHAKE AFTER THE PC!WHYARE MY GRAINS WET AGIAN THEY WERE DRY WHEN THEY WENT INTO THE PC! OOPS I SHOOK AFTER I inoculated! just to realize i was sweating over nuthing:shakefist:


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: cronicr]
    #19358584 - 01/02/14 01:34 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

because I used grains I was able to do G2G transfers with my healthy jars. Even after throwing out 12 jars I still ended up with exponentially more spawn in the end.



Well obviously if you prepared more jars you're going to wind up with more spawn. That's true even without g2gs.


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: DetectiveLefty]
    #19358609 - 01/02/14 01:39 PM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

DetectiveLefty said:
Opinion around here seems to be that PF tek 15 4 n00bz, but that's kind of the point. PF tek only requires mixing and sterilizing *one* substrate, no PC, no agar, no isolating strains, no casing layer, etc., so it's that much less commitment if/when you've f**ked it up.

If, on the other hand, it's more important for you to be seen as a "real" grower by the weirdos back in the bait shop, by all means get the PC, some agar & dishes, WBS/rye grains, coir/manure substrate, casing, quart jars, filter disks, trays/monotubs, set up a clean room with laminar flow hood, and do bulk :smile:




.....by all means get the PC, some agar & dishes, WBS/rye grains, coir/manure substrate, casing, quart jars, filter disks, trays/monotubs, set up a clean room with laminar flow hood, and do bulk :smile:

I took the liberty of removing some of the unnecessary items to be more aligned with a first time bulk.  Bulk can be accomplished with quite a good deal less than what you were insinuating.  I do agree that the initial cost of getting a PC and quart jars will be more than doing PF.  If cost is the issue AND you are unconcerned about Multi-spore, PF is the way to start.  You would still need a plastic tub to make a proper fruiting chamber.

I went bulk mainly because I simply could not find 1/2 pint wide mouth jars, and the small mouth 1/4th pint and half pints were just totally wrong.  After having less than stellar success, I ordered a few big bags of pre-sterilized grain, and went from there.  It took less than a month from my first "PF" jar until I was inoculating grain, and bulking. 

I started bulk without a PC because of this.  Sure it was not terribly cost effective, but ordering bags of sterile grain was cheap considering all the time I saved.  It was a nice method of entry and allowed for me to observe and decide that I absolutely could not live without a pressure cooker.  The MS grows slowly drew me into agar, grain to grain transfers and Still air box work.

No matter the method of beginning, EVERY SINGLE method comes with certain benefits, certain costs, and individual pitfalls.  Coir is so easy to work with, and so hard to ruin that it alone takes quite a bit of guesswork out of the equation. 

I can say that I don't actually think that there is a correct answer to this question.  There are simply too many variables each way.  The one that you want to study first is the one that will work best.


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Offlinetripdawg420
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: Kizzle]
    #19358621 - 01/02/14 01:41 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

shit i started with cakes i had a 10 qt pc could only fit 10 jars at a time i was doing 50 jars every week doing cakes every day perlite from every inch of my house like 5 105 qt sgfc fun as fuck i learned alot :thumbup:


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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11917410
results :thumbup:


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OfflineDetectiveLefty
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #19359427 - 01/02/14 04:22 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

I took the liberty of removing some of the unnecessary items...




I was wondering when someone would take the bait, so to speak :smile:


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: DetectiveLefty]
    #19359475 - 01/02/14 04:33 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

DetectiveLefty said:
Quote:

I took the liberty of removing some of the unnecessary items...




I was wondering when someone would take the bait, so to speak :smile:



I am only presenting the facts objectively.  Sounds like you knew in advance that you put too many items on the list, and just wanted to see who would correct it. 

By your same reasoning, one COULD suggest agar and liquid cultures for PF tek so that one can inoculate cakes with a solid monoculture right off the bat. 

We are simply talking about a starting point into the hobby, and adding all the excess items is comparing apples to oranges to a 350 small block.

Either way, I view things pretty much down the middle.  There are so many ways to skin a cat.



Quote:

Whippy said:
I can say that I don't actually think that there is a correct answer to this question.  There are simply too many variables each way.  The one that you want to study first is the one that will work best.





***Edited because I am terrible at parsing quotes.


Edited by HypnotoadCroaked (01/02/14 04:36 PM)


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OfflineDetectiveLefty
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #19359800 - 01/02/14 05:29 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Whippy said:
Quote:

Sounds like you knew in advance that you put too many items on the list, and just wanted to see who would correct it.




I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, I've only been growing for less than a year :smile:


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: DetectiveLefty]
    #19359813 - 01/02/14 05:33 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

DetectiveLefty said:
Quote:

Whippy said:
Quote:

Sounds like you knew in advance that you put too many items on the list, and just wanted to see who would correct it.




I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, I've only been growing for less than a year :smile:



did you quote that wrong lol?


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: cronicr]
    #19359898 - 01/02/14 05:48 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:

did you quote that wrong lol?



I dunno if its an insult against me, or a simple mis-quote lol.

Either way, I can basically say the same thing:

I've only been growing less than a year, and I don't know what the hell Im talking about either lol...If you don't count a few months of portabello culture to spore prints prior to me dropping anchor here.


Either way, good luck OP.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #19359902 - 01/02/14 05:49 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

i know right:confused: lol


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It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: cronicr]
    #19359946 - 01/02/14 05:57 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

with my limited experience I would do wbs G2G+spawn to coir instead of pftek looking back

it hasnt been without use though... perlite can be used for a lot, verm can be used for a lot
pf jars can be used for test innocs when doing LCs so you dont waste a larger jar

pftek is much work fanning and misting all day , who has time to fan and mist 3-4 times a day at least?

monotubs maintain themselves

but the hard work is worth it sometimes, if you really love mushrooms :-)
they are beautiful, monotubs you dont get to see the beauty each day with
and you cant just pick a fruit any day and eat it with monotubs, only when ready to harvest

with pftek terrariums you can eat fresh mushrooms any time you want
as long as they are ready(just before veil tears)

yield is usually lower with pftek, but still plenty for you and for a friend or 2 to trip if you fill the terrarium
you will keep getting mushrooms and be self-sustaining all the time

with wbs a lot can go wrong, moisture, contams easier etc. , bad pasteurization etc.

with pftek they will just keep growing, it is easy if you follow the tek 100%
you will never run out of mushrooms with pftek if you have just 4-6 double sized jars (drinking glasses work good IMO if using LC - else they pin early often), or 8-12 normal cakes or such

and with pftek you learn all the basics, I havent seen any WBS teks teaching the basics yet
inoculation, birthing/colonization basics etc.


Edited by lessismore (01/02/14 06:16 PM)


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Offlinewestthebest
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Re: Is pf tek the best way to get started? [Re: elasticaltiger]
    #19360320 - 01/02/14 07:18 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

elasticaltiger said:
Your potency will be fine. I grew about 70 MS jars and they were all about the same.  Yes this is a good way to start if you're just wanting to get some mushrooms for yourself and friends.  Don't expect to get rich off of these cakes though.

If you follow the method to the T you will succeed.  Good luck.



this.  also, if you have a pressure cooker, trying a few monos or mini-monos just for the hell of it isn't a terrible idea either.  I did a couple along with the pf tek for my first grow and they turned out so much better than my cakes...  in fact, I'm probably gonna get ruined for this, but I didn't even use a pressure cooker for the first batch, I just bought grow bags off the internet...  which isn't the best idea, but 3/4 of mine worked well, and you can also find vendors that ship their bags fresh instead of making them and letting them sit on a shelf.  your call :shrug: bulk really isn't terribly hard though...

edit: seems like rye would be preferable to WBS for your first attempt at bulk, but then again I have experience with WBS personally, and it will certainly work


Edited by westthebest (01/02/14 07:20 PM)


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