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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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If you had a choice...
#19352101 - 12/31/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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to be able to never feel sadness, to never experience heartbreak, to never feel the misery that pure suffering and sheer agony can cause... would you?
How about if you could choose not to feel guilt, remorse, anxiety, fear, or worry? What if you never had to spend countless sleepless nights thinking about all the things you did wrong and how, if only God would grant you rest, you'd become a better person tomorrow?
What if you could press a button, right now, and lose the ability to feel empathy? In other words, what if you could break free from those imprisoning chains of guilt and societally-ingrained morality? What if you could live free from all the negative emotions and fear most people think?
Just imagine. A world where you are liberated to do whatever you please. A world where you don't have to care what other people think. A world where you can do whatever you want, whenever you want. And the limits? There are no limits. There is only how far you're willing to go. *
* Acceptance of this deal may involve subsequent loss of the ability to truly feel love or connection with others. It's a small price to pay in consideration of all the suffering you'll be missing out on, however. And the rewards are... shall we say, limitless.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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WhoManBeing
PsychedelicYogi



Registered: 09/01/13
Posts: 3,836
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 2 days, 18 hours
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Re: If you had a choice... [Re: deCypher]
#19352156 - 12/31/13 06:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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think i just signed up for a lobotomy by agreeing, yes.
-------------------- Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!! Eye was thinking the other day... ahh, thinking never done me no good.
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all this beauty
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 779
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Re: If you had a choice... [Re: deCypher]
#19354073 - 01/01/14 09:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nothing -- absolutely nothing -- comes to me without purpose.
I surrender any of my human bits at my peril.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Yes here. From my experiences with XTC feeling relaxed and calm brings out a really nice guy in me. Still doesn't mean wouldn't take what I wanted at times but I wouldn't do it with malice and I'd weigh the cost to others in the decision.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grateful Dead
A Growing Ambivalence



Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 2,468
Loc: Parked Car, Playing NPR
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Re: If you had a choice... [Re: deCypher]
#19354506 - 01/01/14 12:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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No I would never want to rid myself of sadness, heartbreak, agony, guilt, fear or any emotion.
Everything is givin to us in life for a reason. Things only exist to us because of having something to compare it too, that makes things real. How can you have joy without sadness, love without heartbreak or trust without guilt? You can't take away the opposite and you remove the line that connects it to itself and us, it would cease to be.
Like if you never felt hot water, cold water would not be cold, it would just be water? I think emotions are the same way, Also having them around humbles us, gives us something to work on to not avoid it but just be ok with them, not getting rid but making peace. That is what I want peace with everything, all sides all things peace
-------------------- Life begins on the other side of despair...
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Good luck with all that.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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all this beauty
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 779
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
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Quote:
Grateful Dead said: No I would never want to rid myself of sadness, heartbreak, agony, guilt, fear or any emotion.
Everything is givin to us in life for a reason. Things only exist to us because of having something to compare it too, that makes things real. How can you have joy without sadness, love without heartbreak or trust without guilt? You can't take away the opposite and you remove the line that connects it to itself and us, it would cease to be.
Like if you never felt hot water, cold water would not be cold, it would just be water? I think emotions are the same way, Also having them around humbles us, gives us something to work on to not avoid it but just be ok with them, not getting rid but making peace. That is what I want peace with everything, all sides all things peace
Oh my god...
A fellow Philosophical Daoist. 
Are you even aware that your post is almost verbatim out of the Tao Te Ching, a very ancient book of wisdom that paved the way for much of the Eastern spirituality / mysticism that followed?
And you voice it very well.
Kudos to you, my friend.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Except no one knows if any of that is true due to the dualistic nature of the universe.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: If you had a choice... [Re: deCypher]
#19354693 - 01/01/14 01:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Can I try before I buy? Gimme a week of it before I make my verdict.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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CosmicJoke
happy mutant


Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
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Re: If you had a choice... [Re: WhoManBeing] 1
#19354706 - 01/01/14 01:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
WhoManBeing said: think i just signed up for a lobotomy by agreeing, yes.
Seemed more like becoming a vampire in True Blood.
-------------------- Everything is better than it was the last time. I'm good. If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care. It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence. I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too. If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.
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bloodbrother778
Super Chimpanzee

Registered: 10/26/07
Posts: 418
Last seen: 3 months, 17 days
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Re: If you had a choice... [Re: CosmicJoke]
#19355701 - 01/01/14 06:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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hmmm….
In all honestly if I had my way RIGHT NOW…I'd say yes having suffered A LOT due to circumstances as well as my own exacerbation of circumstances it indeed does seem that it would be easier to not experience pain……
but I think that would be a really bad deal to have….someone once said that people will do more to avoid pain than they will to seek pleasure so avoiding pain becomes a primary motivator in life I mean if there was no pain what's to stop me from walking out in the street and getting hit by a car? I've tried numbing myself to all feeling before (not with drugs just with a I don't give a fuck attitude) and that didn't really work - when I succeeded in numbing myself I may have as well not been alive because I felt nothing
without pain there would be no growth. there's also something to be said for enduring pain that one has to in order to reach a goal - if you can't endure it then obviously the desire to get to your goal is not strong enough
perhaps it is possible to reach a state where one does not experience pain, but this I do not think is possible without having gone through pain first - then the liberation means something. and as we all start out at the base level, pain has to be our primary teacher, otherwise we just don't give a fuck
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Tycoda
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/13
Posts: 108
Last seen: 8 years, 3 days
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never. my experiences in those various feeling-states define me as a human being, and they make living worthwhile. joy cannot be eternal unless it is earned, which is why kids that abuse MDMA end up with no joy from that drug in the end, which they call "losing the magic". they only experience a dopamine / serotonin flood, but cannot sustain the true bliss because true bliss transcends the material existence.
feeling, to me, is what makes life transcendental, since true joy and bliss are far above and beyond dopamine and serotonin.
without guilt, a person cannot know when their actions are being steered in the wrong direction. having no guilt is the ultimate slavery, since guilt is the compass that allows us to steer ourselves correctly with no other voice but our own. and without it, people can only be guided by their whims, with no control or reason for any action whatsoever, like they are on a roller coaster that has no brakes.
without worry, there is no empowerment that comes from acting despite it.
emotions and feelings are the true teachers of life, and without them life has no direction or purpose.
Edited by Tycoda (01/01/14 06:32 PM)
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Grateful Dead
A Growing Ambivalence



Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 2,468
Loc: Parked Car, Playing NPR
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Quote:
all this beauty said:
Quote:
Grateful Dead said: No I would never want to rid myself of sadness, heartbreak, agony, guilt, fear or any emotion.
Everything is givin to us in life for a reason. Things only exist to us because of having something to compare it too, that makes things real. How can you have joy without sadness, love without heartbreak or trust without guilt? You can't take away the opposite and you remove the line that connects it to itself and us, it would cease to be.
Like if you never felt hot water, cold water would not be cold, it would just be water? I think emotions are the same way, Also having them around humbles us, gives us something to work on to not avoid it but just be ok with them, not getting rid but making peace. That is what I want peace with everything, all sides all things peace
Oh my god...
A fellow Philosophical Daoist. 
Are you even aware that your post is almost verbatim out of the Tao Te Ching, a very ancient book of wisdom that paved the way for much of the Eastern spirituality / mysticism that followed?
And you voice it very well.
Kudos to you, my friend. 
Thanks man, actually no I'm not too familiar with the Tao Te Ching, but now I want to check it out.
-------------------- Life begins on the other side of despair...
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: If you had a choice... [Re: Tycoda]
#19355801 - 01/01/14 06:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Except the OP defined that choice as a possible one. He's asking if you could feel bliss/no suffering all the time would you? Anyone in there right mind would say yes imo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
Loc: Inbetween.
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Life needs death to excist.. no pain no... euphoria?
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,891
Last seen: 2 hours, 26 minutes
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Re: If you had a choice... [Re: deCypher] 2
#19355830 - 01/01/14 06:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: to be able to never feel sadness, to never experience heartbreak, to never feel the misery that pure suffering and sheer agony can cause... would you?
How about if you could choose not to feel guilt, remorse, anxiety, fear, or worry? What if you never had to spend countless sleepless nights thinking about all the things you did wrong and how, if only God would grant you rest, you'd become a better person tomorrow?
What if you could press a button, right now, and lose the ability to feel empathy? In other words, what if you could break free from those imprisoning chains of guilt and societally-ingrained morality? What if you could live free from all the negative emotions and fear most people think?
Just imagine. A world where you are liberated to do whatever you please. A world where you don't have to care what other people think. A world where you can do whatever you want, whenever you want. And the limits? There are no limits. There is only how far you're willing to go. *
* Acceptance of this deal may involve subsequent loss of the ability to truly feel love or connection with others. It's a small price to pay in consideration of all the suffering you'll be missing out on, however. And the rewards are... shall we say, limitless.
Its interesting... harvard did a study of men over a long span of time, some 60+ years. One principle investigator died and another took over. He recently wrote a book about it. I bought it as a present for a family member and before wrapping it I skimmed. Each individual had a lifelong satisfaction score that was a cumulative score over the length of the study. The most satisfied man, over the course of 60+ years of study, was a lawyer who "was unable to or uninterested in finding intimacy," aka love. A few other men came close, those who had loving and warm childhoods, found meaningful work, and a family of their own. But they still fell short. Go figure.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: If you had a choice... [Re: Kickle]
#19355950 - 01/01/14 07:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah go figure. Looks like what we thought we knew we did not. Reality is funny that way.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,891
Last seen: 2 hours, 26 minutes
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Re: If you had a choice... [Re: Icelander]
#19356193 - 01/01/14 08:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I also found it interesting that even when born with all the advantages it could still go awry. And when it did, it went bad in a big way. Expectations mixed with failure, yay...
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Grateful Dead
A Growing Ambivalence



Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 2,468
Loc: Parked Car, Playing NPR
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Re: If you had a choice... [Re: Kickle]
#19356436 - 01/01/14 10:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah because to the privileged its not a privilege only a givin. They never know what they have, because they have never not had it. Its almost a curse, someone can have everything going for them, and even here it from everyone, but it does not matter because they dont here it from themselves. People are strange, I'll never understand, and I hope not to.
-------------------- Life begins on the other side of despair...
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bloodbrother778
Super Chimpanzee

Registered: 10/26/07
Posts: 418
Last seen: 3 months, 17 days
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man can I second that^^
seems like I was given a lot of things in life, I had a good home, intelligence, talent - was on a full scholarship in college........but I didn't give a fuck about any of it so I threw it away. It was never good enough for me and I didn't really know what I had until I didn't have it anymore. I don't regret losing things though because that is what taught me their value, even simple things like eating well or not having to worry where you're gonna sleep at night.
Either way just being "given" things without having to work for them seems like a curse, at least for me. I always care a lot more about something I had to work hard to obtain.
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