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Stonehenge
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: qman]
#21956500 - 07/17/15 02:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Inflation will hit and it will not be because of surging demand, it will not be a few percent rise in the cost of goods every year. It will be because the only way to pay the debt, in fact the only way to pay interest on the debt is to print more shiploads of money. That is what will drive inflation. It won't be a few percent it will be massive inflation, think Zimbabwe.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Ahab McBathsalts
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: qman]
#21956504 - 07/17/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Japan has a decline in population. The USA is not anticipating such a problem.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2011/05/30/what-actually-causes-inflation/2/
"This is not an all inclusive list, but I would think that it covers the vast majority of what we have experienced since the end of WWII (today, we are most threatened by the link between financial markets and commodities). The bottom line is that there are a number of processes that can create inflation, none of which starts with, “the money supply increases.”"
A $15 dollar / hr federal minimum wage would do the trick and such a populist tactic would surely get the candidate nominated.
-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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qman
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: Stonehenge]
#21956537 - 07/17/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: Inflation will hit and it will not be because of surging demand, it will not be a few percent rise in the cost of goods every year. It will be because the only way to pay the debt, in fact the only way to pay interest on the debt is to print more shiploads of money. That is what will drive inflation. It won't be a few percent it will be massive inflation, think Zimbabwe.
The EU, US, UK, China, and Japan have all bought their own debt, still no inflation or economic growth.
Buying bonds is not inflationary unless there's a velocity of money, today there's little credit creation or overall demand in all of those economies. It's more complicated than a CB buying debt, especially if all of them are doing it at the same time.
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qman
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Quote:
Ahab McBathsalts said: Japan has a decline in population. The USA is not anticipating such a problem.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2011/05/30/what-actually-causes-inflation/2/
"This is not an all inclusive list, but I would think that it covers the vast majority of what we have experienced since the end of WWII (today, we are most threatened by the link between financial markets and commodities). The bottom line is that there are a number of processes that can create inflation, none of which starts with, “the money supply increases.”"
A $15 dollar / hr federal minimum wage would do the trick and such a populist tactic would surely get the candidate nominated.
What good is a $15 dollar per hour minimum wage if 20% of the working class is still unemployed? Like the article you posted stated in 2011, it's about DEMAND and today it's dying in all developed economies because of globalization and massive income and wealth inequality. Also, supply is super high today, look at commodity prices, oil trading at $50 today.
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Adden

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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21956586 - 07/17/15 02:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
KauaiOrca said: Gold hit a 5 year low today. Dollar continues to strengthen. Go figure.
Going to post updates every single fucking day to "prove" your point?
Oh a five year low. That's never happened before.
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KauaiOrca
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: Adden]
#21956725 - 07/17/15 03:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dys said:
Quote:
KauaiOrca said: Gold hit a 5 year low today. Dollar continues to strengthen. Go figure.
Going to post updates every single fucking day to "prove" your point?
Oh a five year low. That's never happened before. 
Given that the title of the Thread is "Bottom finally in for silver" it does seem somewhat relevant, wouldn't you say?
-------------------- "The universe is endless, limitless and infinite. Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance. We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end. There is only memory. Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends. Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations. Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death." -- Ancient Taoist Master
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Adden

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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: KauaiOrca]
#21956741 - 07/17/15 03:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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And posts about gold.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: qman]
#21956951 - 07/17/15 04:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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>It's more complicated than a CB buying debt, especially if all of them are doing it at the same time.
That's the answer, if only one country was doing it, their currency would go into the shitter. Since they all are doing it, where do people move their money?
When it becomes a problem is when one of two things happen.
1. the country can't borrow any more 2. it prints too much fiat chasing the same amount of goods.
Many countries are in #1, Greece, Russia, cuba, a few others. Since demand is down, this depresses inflation and the game continues. At some point we all know or sense that the game will fall apart. No one knows the hour or the day.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Ahab McBathsalts
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: Stonehenge]
#21956997 - 07/17/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Cuba will be an economic powerhouse when tourism opens up to the USA.
And their highly skilled and educated workforce is able to compete on a level playing field.
-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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Adden

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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: Stonehenge]
#21957013 - 07/17/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: I think there is junk going on behind the scenes. There is great need for cash all over the world. I think they are just raising money the best way they know how, especially the countries that can't borrow much like Greece, Venezuela, russia and a number of others. They don't announce it, they want their citizens to think the gold and silver is still in the vaults but its been sold off to china, india and other buyers. USA has probably sold most of its gold too.
Does anyone else share the sentiment of things going on behind the scenes messing with prices? Does it cross other people's minds? Or is it a "nutter" idea? It's completely plausible and possible, I just don't crunch numbers well. They do seem to be god awfully low.. are investors and countries keeping it artificially low?
Anyone want to add their 2 cents to this?
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Stonehenge
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Cuba an ecomomic powerhouse
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Ahab McBathsalts
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: Stonehenge]
#21957043 - 07/17/15 05:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The Germany of the Caribbean
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Stonehenge
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It takes more than a slogan. They still have communism which will keep them broke forever.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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qman
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: Adden]
#21957136 - 07/17/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dys said:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: I think there is junk going on behind the scenes. There is great need for cash all over the world. I think they are just raising money the best way they know how, especially the countries that can't borrow much like Greece, Venezuela, russia and a number of others. They don't announce it, they want their citizens to think the gold and silver is still in the vaults but its been sold off to china, india and other buyers. USA has probably sold most of its gold too.
Does anyone else share the sentiment of things going on behind the scenes messing with prices? Does it cross other people's minds? Or is it a "nutter" idea? It's completely plausible and possible, I just don't crunch numbers well. They do seem to be god awfully low.. are investors and countries keeping it artificially low?
Anyone want to add their 2 cents to this?

I think traders can push the price around of any asset class in the very short term but that's not price suppression, that's pushing and pulling the trading range for paper profits.
At the end of the day, there is no group of people or government that can manipulate the price of a physical commodity (oil, wheat, silver, gold, ect) for any length of time. The basic forces of supply and demand always win.
Now if you want to say that someone who buys a futures contract but never stands for delivery is a oil/gold investor, I would have to disagree. They would be nothing more than a paper speculator and they really don't do much in the physical market.
I don't believe that any government can sell any asset secretly into a global market without "the market" knowing it and already pricing it into the price. If the US was truly selling gold into the market it would be reflected in the price of many other asset classes, it's not.
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qman
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: Stonehenge]
#21957153 - 07/17/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >It's more complicated than a CB buying debt, especially if all of them are doing it at the same time.
That's the answer, if only one country was doing it, their currency would go into the shitter. Since they all are doing it, where do people move their money?
When it becomes a problem is when one of two things happen.
1. the country can't borrow any more 2. it prints too much fiat chasing the same amount of goods.
Many countries are in #1, Greece, Russia, cuba, a few others. Since demand is down, this depresses inflation and the game continues. At some point we all know or sense that the game will fall apart. No one knows the hour or the day.
Or year, China wants a weak Yuan and the US wants a firm dollar, as long as the cooperation exists despite the massive imbalances, it will take much longer than anyone would expect in my opinion.
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Stonehenge
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: qman]
#21957165 - 07/17/15 05:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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>I don't believe that any government can sell any asset secretly into a global market without "the market" knowing it and already pricing it into the price. If the US was truly selling gold into the market it would be reflected in the price of many other asset classes, it's not.
Why couldn't they do it secretly? Of course it shows up in the price, that's why i think its happening. China has been buying gold like mad but the price stays down. Do you have any other explanation?
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Adden

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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: Stonehenge]
#21957241 - 07/17/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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They've been scooping up gold and silver left and right for what, at least 3 years now?
This is an interesting read.
Some more.
Quote:
Russia and China ‘Furiously’ Buying Up Gold As “a Global Currency Crisis – Albeit Unstated – is Underway
China has been quietly stockpiling gold for years now. In fact, it is stockpiling so much gold that many have speculated that it may be building a gold-backed yuan currency that would make the Dollar pale in comparison on the global market.
Bottom line: no one knows just exactly how much gold China has amassed:
Buying surreptitiously allows Beijing to buy bullion at bargain prices; if the world knew how much gold China was really amassing, a run on gold the likes of which the globe has never seen would likely ensue. “We believe China is controlling the gold price because it is buying in such a way so as not to push prices up.” That’s the opinion of respected precious-metals analyst Julian Phillips of The Gold Forecaster, along with a host of other informed sources. (source)
It is widely believed that China has accumulated larger – possibly much larger – reserves since. (source)
Lots of other countries are rapidly buying up gold, too, including – Serbia, Greece, Ecuador, Mexico, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan.
But reportedly no one is buying gold at a faster pace than Russia.
Back in August 2014 it was reported that:
Russia’s increase is the most dramatic, according to the recent report from the IMF. The Russian central bank has almost doubled its gold holdings within the last 5 years to 1,094.8 tonnes in June of this year. China’s Central Bank followed with an increase of 75% from its holdings in 2009.
Quote:
And these are just the losses that we know about so far. It will be many months before the full scope of the financial devastation caused by the Swiss National Bank is fully revealed. But of course the same thing could be said about the crash in the price of oil that we have witnessed in recent weeks. These two “black swan events” have set financial dominoes in motion all over the globe. At this point we can only guess how bad the financial devastation will ultimately be.
Quote:
China has quietly declared war on the U.S. worthless dollar but can you blame them? They already have in place Chinese Yuan Swap facilities, which started the non U.S. dollar trade practice years ago. In 2012 China completed trade agreements with most nations they trade with called BRICS. They also have a BRIC Development Fund with a reported $200 billion already funding infrastructure needs and to deal with their toxic U.S. T Bonds. They will be busy replacing these bonds with gold and the chartered bank (Bank of China, Peoples Bank of China) will compete with the IMF and World Bank.
Russia has been buying up gold and silver but they're falling apart at the seams?
China is picking it up left and right and don't have to claim figures because it's being shipped into Beijing?
My concern is the 2nd link is from shtfplan.com.
I feel like I'm reading the Onion of PM's. Some of the sources go even deeper and more reliable.
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qman
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: Stonehenge]
#21957266 - 07/17/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: >I don't believe that any government can sell any asset secretly into a global market without "the market" knowing it and already pricing it into the price. If the US was truly selling gold into the market it would be reflected in the price of many other asset classes, it's not.
Why couldn't they do it secretly? Of course it shows up in the price, that's why i think its happening. China has been buying gold like mad but the price stays down. Do you have any other explanation?
I guess it's either believe what China says or not. 
Just announced today- http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-07-17/china-increases-gold-reserves-in-first-disclosure-since-2009
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Stonehenge
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: Adden]
#21957284 - 07/17/15 06:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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i really don't think Russia is buying any gold right now. They may even be selling they are so pinched by the falling price of oil. They probably were buying back when oil was $100+ but not now. China too is on hard times, they probably cut way back on buying which may be why the price has dropped. No way Greece can buy any gold, they are broke.
But who is doing all the selling? You can't have buying without sellers.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Ahab McBathsalts
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Re: Bottom Finally In For Silver? [Re: Stonehenge]
#21957314 - 07/17/15 06:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Marketwatch has a great article about china's gold released today. I imagine the tone is similar to bloomberg.
-------------------- "Nobody exists on purpose. Nobody belongs anywhere. Everybody's going to die."
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