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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems
    #19353902 - 01/01/14 07:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Hello there and happy New Year to all growers!

I'm trying to grow some Papaver Somniferum poppies. I'm growing in my grow box under 600W MH lights, along together with my ganja and some
other plants. I'm really getting headaches now beacuse of germinating problems. I've put a bunch of somniferum seeds into two bigger containers in my box under 18/6 lights regime. Temperature is always between 19 and 26'C with arond 55-60% humidity which I maintain by using little container with water in. I've succeeded in sprouting only two of 30-40 seeds, the only two which I germinated outside of the box. They both somehow dried and got yellowish after a week under MH lights, in spite of watering them with 1 deciliter non-chlorinated water every day, after the lights turning off.
Others which I watered every day, simply did not germinate at all. I'm having problem germinating other plants, too, in grow box, I don't know
why because everyone saying that putting in soil directly is the best germinating method.
The soil is highest quality eco (Terra Magma), but it somehow overdries in spite of watering and trying to keep wet regularly.

I don't know what am I doing wrong? Any advices?


Edited by luther7hrol (01/01/14 07:54 AM)


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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19353913 - 01/01/14 07:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Welcome luther7hrol :smile:

Poppies need it cooler to germinate. Try around 3-7C overnight, 15-20C during the day.


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InvisibleKBG1977
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19353919 - 01/01/14 07:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

your problem is those grow lights,poppies like it colder when you germinate them,plus those are probably way to bright.What is your temp in Fahrenheit?I haven't gotten a dud poppy seed yet,and they are among the easiest plants to germinate,and grow.


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InvisibleKBG1977
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: KBG1977]
    #19353920 - 01/01/14 07:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

dang,mostly beat me to eat!


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: KBG1977]
    #19353922 - 01/01/14 07:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

One thing you can do is put ice cubes over the seeds. It will help them germinate keep them moist as well. High temps early on will cause them to flower much smaller and less so keep that in mind if you don't want to change the temp of the room/soil for a longer period after germination.


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: KBG1977]
    #19353931 - 01/01/14 08:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you :-)

Temperature is 65 F when lights are off, and it gets 78 at maximum while the box is on. I cover 'em only a milimeter or two with sand when germinating. Is it maybe better to germinate in cotton and then put in growbox when they sprout? And the lights distance from the plants?

BTW can I put the containers out of the box, and add those ice cubes on top of the soil now, will it sprout now when almost two weeks in box nothing happened or it's over with that chance?

What is the ideal temp range after they enter veg phase?
I must keep at least 66 F because of my indica plants, how to combine those two to get the best results for both?


Edited by luther7hrol (01/01/14 08:11 AM)


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InvisibleKBG1977
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19353960 - 01/01/14 08:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Is it too cold outdoors this time of year in Croatia to start some outdoors,and then move them inside after you thin out some good ones?


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: KBG1977]
    #19354033 - 01/01/14 09:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, I think it is cold outside in this time of year, around 10'C (50F) during daylight, but inside the house I've got around 55 F when not heating, I just planned to put them out of the growbox. In that room I have around 13'C (55'F) at minimum. Is it okay?
Will they germinate now after some time on that temp range or they are destroyed cause of humidity/high temp in box?


Edited by luther7hrol (01/01/14 09:14 AM)


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19357275 - 01/02/14 04:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

As long as it's not freezing, you can just sprout them outdoors and even keep them there. If you're near the coast, that should work just fine. If you're further inland, frost will probably be an issue.


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: koraks]
    #19357508 - 01/02/14 07:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, I am at the sea cost, in mediterranean climate zone, so I think I'll give it a try. But, are poppies gonna produce "weaker" opium
if let outside in this time of year? Good friend of mine suggested to plant indoors because of stronger opium concentration. And, how much time they need to mature outdoors?


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19358200 - 01/02/14 12:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I suggest to germinate your plants more cooler, for example sow them to pots what sit at cool windowsill or in your climate germinate them outdoors and move indoors under HPS.

One way is just to wait month or two, sow seeds outdoors and let them grow, your environment should be ok for poppies. I have success to grow them outdoors without greenhouse at arctic circle. I move them out in big pot at May.

I have also grow them in greenhouse. They seems to like temperature change over night and day when they germinate.. Also they are very tough and frost tolerant at young age.. When they grow more bigger, then they are not anymore tolerant to frosts nor replanting.

anyway, try germination outdoors and move them indoors when you have small plants all around the plant trays or pots.. I still suggest to grow poppy in your zone outdoors, they have outdoors nice amount of root space and I can say they will produce alkaloids as well. I have success to get alkaloid containing pods there so why you can't?:dancer:

Best way I have find out to grow poppies is outdoors. No matter what.. Better to have more root space for plants so you have bigger amount of plant material, anyway.

Do you planned to slice the pods and harvest opium or let pods dry and do extraction from plants like big pharma companies do?

I have do only tea from poppy pods. Only way I can advice with that, they are perfect material for tea when they are old enough. Their coloration change and when you puncture them and you don't see the leak of opium, pods are good and you can harvest them.

After harvest or pods even in there arctic at greenhouse I can have two patch of pods. I just see when pod color change, then do small puncture and if there will not leak any opium, they are ready for harvest and dry and later on use for tea. I have got pretty strong opium tea from "old pods" what doesn't leak anymore and have mature seeds inside.:thumbup:

I think in your climate you can sow poppies out now and few months later new patch.


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Edited by intelligentlife (01/02/14 12:19 PM)


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Invisiblespaceman101
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19358576 - 01/02/14 01:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Hey I thought I could add something to this tread that I haven't seen brought up but in a few other threads I found this
Quote:

First update of the season:
Got some sprouts poppin' up,soon it will be time to thin them to clusters of 2 or 3 every few inches or so!



"Their was a picture of seedlings grouped together in a pot that he was talking about thinning out and replanting but I don't really know how properly copy and post it"

But at the same time I've found many places, Teks, posts ,threads and sites that say uprooting and replanting poppies often kill them so how would this be possible?


Edited by spaceman101 (01/02/14 01:38 PM)


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: spaceman101]
    #19358650 - 01/02/14 01:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

spaceman101 said:
Hey I thought I could add something to this tread that I haven't seen brought up but in a few other threads I found this
Quote:

First update of the season: "Their was a picture of seedlings grouped together in a pot that he was talking about thinning out and replanting but I don't really know how properly copy and post it"
Got some sprouts poppin' up,soon it will be time to thin them to clusters of 2 or 3 every few inches or so!






But at the same time I've found many places, Teks, posts ,threads and sites that say uprooting and replanting poppies often kill them so how would this be possible?




Very young poppy can be transplanted with caution.

Older poppy will die to stress of transplanting.

However, when you germinate the seeds, there are very small and tough plants just enough size you see them, they are at that size small enough they don't have big root system.

Problem is with poppy, if you damage the root system plant dies, it's only weakness with this plant, basically it should be whole life at the place where you germinate it, but just germinated young plants can be transplanted with caution. Transplanting is not possible after plant starts to develop bigger foliage and bigger root system, otherwise it can be done.

One way is to use pots where roots can grow out. You can germinate and grow plants on these pots made from material what decay. When plants are old enough you can move whole pot to new environment and let poppy grow with no harm done. Sorry I don't know english word for the pot I mean but later on roots grow out from these pots to new soil. So only you need to transplant small pot to new soil.

There is thin line when you can transplant poppies and when it's not anymore possible.

However, I have never transplanted poppies nor even think of it. I always sow them to place where they spent all their life cycle.

About one week old poppy seedling can be transplanted easily, they are small at that time and small enough transplant works.. I don't know why poppy is very hard plant for sudden changes in soil, even it grows almost everywhere and in almost every soil mix you possible can offer, but they just don't tolerate transplanting at all.. Basic rule would be, you should transplant the poppies before they turn to really visible plants anyway.. I think so, I have never transplanted poppies but I have seen many times how they germinate and turn to adult plants.

You can think poppy plant is basically totally different when it's just germinated young small plant compared to plant what have started to grow foliage.

You need to do transplant before plants "change" to different "form"


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Edited by intelligentlife (01/02/14 01:48 PM)


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Invisiblespaceman101
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19359649 - 01/02/14 05:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you intelligentlife for your quick answers so I think I'm good to sow some seed in the empty plot under my tree with little ill effects. Does anyone have anything else to add, maybe a personal experience from growing poppies under a tree or even in partial sunlight?

BTW your English is great and I don't think I have ever had a problem understanding what you've written even though I tend to read a lot of your posts since it is always helpful.


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19363560 - 01/03/14 01:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

intelligentlife said:

Best way I have find out to grow poppies is outdoors. No matter what.. Better to have more root space for plants so you have bigger amount of plant material, anyway.

Do you planned to slice the pods and harvest opium or let pods dry and do extraction from plants like big pharma companies do?






I am planning to collect opium and to also use pods to make tea. Can I first extract some opium and then after that use the same pod for making an still effective tea?

Thank you for your very detailed reply. I'll give it a try and tommorow take some seeds out. Maybe it would be the best option to
sow them with space-between in mind, so I don't have to transplant
them at all. I'll start some outside and some inside, and see.
The only problem outside in my garden, are bugs and insects that eat the plants. I have had some cabbage sown outside in the summer which is now almost totally eaten, especially cause I don't approve using any chemichals within. Are poppies resistable to parasites or I could maybe use some neem as a natural pesticide from begining?


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19364061 - 01/03/14 04:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Best thing outdoors are predatory bugs as well.. :thumbup:

Spiders and ladybugs will find their pray and control them. You can't get rid of all bugs but balance will be ok.

I can't say about harvesting opium and later on use pods.

Only I know, big pharma industry harvest all "old plants" ...plants where pods doesn't leak anymore. then they extract the stuff inside plant with chemicals.

Anyway, I have find out poppy pods are very potent if you let the be, they are basically full of opium, actually modern pharma industry use every part of plant, there is small amount of opium everywhere but major concentration is in the pod.

If you don't slice the pods, there are opium inside, when pod is old enough color goes more "blackish" and it doesn't leak anymore.. Anyway these are pods with opium in the tissues, you can dry them, take seeds and grind dry pods and make tea.

It's "old fashion" way to collect opium via slicing and so on but not bad way, modern way is to get everything is collect foliage, stock and pod, grind them, and extract. I don't know how the extraction process goes but I think there is easy way's to do it. Just make a tea from all plant material and evaporate water, you should have black opium tar by that way. I don't know what chemicals pharma industry use but they really just harvest all and extract goods later.

And one thing is because in my country, poppy is illegal if pods are sliced so I grow them, wait before they are at stage they don't leak but are full of good stuff, then I collect them, dry and use as material for poppy tea. No doubt I have not felt nice warming high of morphine.. :smile:

You can do what you see the best, but unharmed poppy pod is still full of opium anyway and good material for tea, but best way to do have something to smoke is slice the pods and harvest the ope. I have done it few times but I have find out it's easier just to collect "old pods" and dry them for material to make tea.. Few pods to tea and few minutes of boiling, the bitter taste there is and feel of fantastic high.. It's not still so strong and fast compared to smoked ope, but anyway it's not bad at all...

I have succeed to got active pods even in there arctic, plant can't grow as wild there but I can sow them outdoors and harvest pods when frosts kill the plants and they are ready about that time... However, I need more pods compared to pods grown more south but I have really not find out pods are "too weak" or "inactive"

..It's just my way to use poppy plant, wait till pod have seeds ready and it doesn't leak anything, these pods are most potent ones. Opium is still inside the plant, just grind the dried pods good and mix with boiling water, bitter "opiate" taste will tell when you have proper dose of tea, also color of tea indicates much.. :yesnod:

Please report what kind of result you have later.. I'm curious, but if you are in mediterrain area, why not to grow poppies outdoors many harvests? :cookiemonster:


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19369177 - 01/04/14 04:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you very much, my friend, I've learnt a lot from you, and certainly shall report results :wink:


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19369519 - 01/04/14 06:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well poppy tea is very old way to consume this plant, you can use every part of plant.

I just have good experiences from dried seed pods but they need to be old enough and contain mature seeds, there are for sure ope inside the tissue of plant, that's why when it's young it probably bleed it but if you think you never cut the pod, it's basically full of opium and tea is good.

One thing I could say, if you harvest pods when they leak when you puncture them, for some reason I have find out they're not so strong compared to these pods what starts to get black/purple coloration around.. I think the coloration comes when the white opium starts to "get old" inside the pod and someway it can be seen like pod turns "transparent"

One way also to test out can you cut off the pod is just shake it, if it starts to rattle, it's good to cut off.. Take it from very top of the poppy plant, it will branch out few new pods later and you can have two harvests from same poppy plant.

And I mean by harvest not actual opium, only older pods. I have learned to see from coloration of seed pod when it's not leaking anymore ope, but if I have get high from pods by grind them and done tea, I'm sure they have the opium inside and it doesn't vanish everywhere, maybe that's why pods turn to black/violet because pod starts to die and ope starts turn black and are visible trough thin skin of pod.

Ofc if you want something to smoke, then you need to slice the pods and collect the opium.

I would do that but I have serious reasons why I keep my poppy plants without any wounds, simply wounded poppies are illegal and I don't want illegal poppies to my yard or greenhouse. So easy way is just collect "ready pods" where is opium inside already and drink the tea.

It's hard to know dosage of opium tea but I can tell, more bitter poppy tea taste, more stronger morphine and codeine content you have in tea, also dark color and bitter taste indicate strong tea.

I think I can say "dosage" because it's not accurate and you need to find it out by testing but watch out you don't take overdose. I have used 10-30 small pods to one dose. Bigger pods, less you need, but there is not really accurate dosage possible to say, if poppy plants grow stunted and small, then you need really over 30 small pods or maybe more to even got one dose of opium tea.

If pods are "normal size" ~3-4cm wide, I could say start with 5 pods and taste, if it's not bitter you can do bigger dose..

One cautious thing I want to say also: If you find our tea is extremely bitter and dark, don't drink everything at once.. it can be fatal potency. There are known deaths to poppy tea.. Even it's unlikely but possible so use your taste and eyes and go first with slow dose.. When you know your poppies potency, then it's more safer to take bigger dosages.

Just be cautious, I have lost friend to opiate drugs, not directly to poppy tea but consumption of oxycontin pills. I think you know it's not drug you can take too much for fun. Also poppy pods are hard because some strains can be potent and some can be weak, also size of pod are different so it's hard to say amount how much pods you need to one good high without taking overdose.

Best hint I can offer is just taste and feel the tea, more bitter the tea taste, more easier you can take overdose and stop breathing.

Good luck for growing poppies.:thumbup:
Be careful and start with low dosage to find out how potent pods you have. When you have find out potency and know your poppies then I can suggest to take bigger dose to get nice warming high without danger of overdosing. :nyan:

I can't wait to sow my own poppy plants to greenhouse.. I can harvest two times one plant because they branch 3-6 new pods after you cut the main pod off. Some poppy plants can grow several branches without harvesting the main pod. I have had one strain what grows typically 2-5 pods per plant.. :crazy2:


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19371479 - 01/05/14 06:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you, it really makes me happy to know there are people like you willing to explain everything and help out others, I can't wait to have my first yields :smile:)

Can you tell me one more thing: how much stronger opium goes in comparison to morphine (or even H)? I suppose more potent smoked opium could be even stronger than those because of all the other alkaloids inside, which are excluded from m or h.


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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19371834 - 01/05/14 08:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luther7hrol said:
Thank you, it really makes me happy to know there are people like you willing to explain everything and help out others, I can't wait to have my first yields :smile:)

Can you tell me one more thing: how much stronger opium goes in comparison to morphine (or even H)? I suppose more potent smoked opium could be even stronger than those because of all the other alkaloids inside, which are excluded from m or h.




The thing is that the other alkaloids (codeine and thebaine) are actually weaker than morphine. I'm pretty sure smoked H would be stronger than smoked opium.


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