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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems
    #19353902 - 01/01/14 07:42 AM (10 years, 30 days ago)

Hello there and happy New Year to all growers!

I'm trying to grow some Papaver Somniferum poppies. I'm growing in my grow box under 600W MH lights, along together with my ganja and some
other plants. I'm really getting headaches now beacuse of germinating problems. I've put a bunch of somniferum seeds into two bigger containers in my box under 18/6 lights regime. Temperature is always between 19 and 26'C with arond 55-60% humidity which I maintain by using little container with water in. I've succeeded in sprouting only two of 30-40 seeds, the only two which I germinated outside of the box. They both somehow dried and got yellowish after a week under MH lights, in spite of watering them with 1 deciliter non-chlorinated water every day, after the lights turning off.
Others which I watered every day, simply did not germinate at all. I'm having problem germinating other plants, too, in grow box, I don't know
why because everyone saying that putting in soil directly is the best germinating method.
The soil is highest quality eco (Terra Magma), but it somehow overdries in spite of watering and trying to keep wet regularly.

I don't know what am I doing wrong? Any advices?


Edited by luther7hrol (01/01/14 07:54 AM)


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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19353913 - 01/01/14 07:48 AM (10 years, 30 days ago)

Welcome luther7hrol :smile:

Poppies need it cooler to germinate. Try around 3-7C overnight, 15-20C during the day.


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InvisibleKBG1977
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19353919 - 01/01/14 07:50 AM (10 years, 30 days ago)

your problem is those grow lights,poppies like it colder when you germinate them,plus those are probably way to bright.What is your temp in Fahrenheit?I haven't gotten a dud poppy seed yet,and they are among the easiest plants to germinate,and grow.


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InvisibleKBG1977
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: KBG1977]
    #19353920 - 01/01/14 07:52 AM (10 years, 30 days ago)

dang,mostly beat me to eat!


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Invisiblemodern.shaman
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: KBG1977]
    #19353922 - 01/01/14 07:54 AM (10 years, 30 days ago)

One thing you can do is put ice cubes over the seeds. It will help them germinate keep them moist as well. High temps early on will cause them to flower much smaller and less so keep that in mind if you don't want to change the temp of the room/soil for a longer period after germination.


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: KBG1977]
    #19353931 - 01/01/14 08:00 AM (10 years, 30 days ago)

Thank you :-)

Temperature is 65 F when lights are off, and it gets 78 at maximum while the box is on. I cover 'em only a milimeter or two with sand when germinating. Is it maybe better to germinate in cotton and then put in growbox when they sprout? And the lights distance from the plants?

BTW can I put the containers out of the box, and add those ice cubes on top of the soil now, will it sprout now when almost two weeks in box nothing happened or it's over with that chance?

What is the ideal temp range after they enter veg phase?
I must keep at least 66 F because of my indica plants, how to combine those two to get the best results for both?


Edited by luther7hrol (01/01/14 08:11 AM)


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InvisibleKBG1977
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19353960 - 01/01/14 08:24 AM (10 years, 30 days ago)

Is it too cold outdoors this time of year in Croatia to start some outdoors,and then move them inside after you thin out some good ones?


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: KBG1977]
    #19354033 - 01/01/14 09:10 AM (10 years, 30 days ago)

Yes, I think it is cold outside in this time of year, around 10'C (50F) during daylight, but inside the house I've got around 55 F when not heating, I just planned to put them out of the growbox. In that room I have around 13'C (55'F) at minimum. Is it okay?
Will they germinate now after some time on that temp range or they are destroyed cause of humidity/high temp in box?


Edited by luther7hrol (01/01/14 09:14 AM)


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19357275 - 01/02/14 04:17 AM (10 years, 29 days ago)

As long as it's not freezing, you can just sprout them outdoors and even keep them there. If you're near the coast, that should work just fine. If you're further inland, frost will probably be an issue.


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: koraks]
    #19357508 - 01/02/14 07:33 AM (10 years, 29 days ago)

Yes, I am at the sea cost, in mediterranean climate zone, so I think I'll give it a try. But, are poppies gonna produce "weaker" opium
if let outside in this time of year? Good friend of mine suggested to plant indoors because of stronger opium concentration. And, how much time they need to mature outdoors?


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19358200 - 01/02/14 12:18 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

I suggest to germinate your plants more cooler, for example sow them to pots what sit at cool windowsill or in your climate germinate them outdoors and move indoors under HPS.

One way is just to wait month or two, sow seeds outdoors and let them grow, your environment should be ok for poppies. I have success to grow them outdoors without greenhouse at arctic circle. I move them out in big pot at May.

I have also grow them in greenhouse. They seems to like temperature change over night and day when they germinate.. Also they are very tough and frost tolerant at young age.. When they grow more bigger, then they are not anymore tolerant to frosts nor replanting.

anyway, try germination outdoors and move them indoors when you have small plants all around the plant trays or pots.. I still suggest to grow poppy in your zone outdoors, they have outdoors nice amount of root space and I can say they will produce alkaloids as well. I have success to get alkaloid containing pods there so why you can't?:dancer:

Best way I have find out to grow poppies is outdoors. No matter what.. Better to have more root space for plants so you have bigger amount of plant material, anyway.

Do you planned to slice the pods and harvest opium or let pods dry and do extraction from plants like big pharma companies do?

I have do only tea from poppy pods. Only way I can advice with that, they are perfect material for tea when they are old enough. Their coloration change and when you puncture them and you don't see the leak of opium, pods are good and you can harvest them.

After harvest or pods even in there arctic at greenhouse I can have two patch of pods. I just see when pod color change, then do small puncture and if there will not leak any opium, they are ready for harvest and dry and later on use for tea. I have got pretty strong opium tea from "old pods" what doesn't leak anymore and have mature seeds inside.:thumbup:

I think in your climate you can sow poppies out now and few months later new patch.


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Edited by intelligentlife (01/02/14 12:19 PM)


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Invisiblespaceman101
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19358576 - 01/02/14 01:33 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Hey I thought I could add something to this tread that I haven't seen brought up but in a few other threads I found this
Quote:

First update of the season:
Got some sprouts poppin' up,soon it will be time to thin them to clusters of 2 or 3 every few inches or so!



"Their was a picture of seedlings grouped together in a pot that he was talking about thinning out and replanting but I don't really know how properly copy and post it"

But at the same time I've found many places, Teks, posts ,threads and sites that say uprooting and replanting poppies often kill them so how would this be possible?


Edited by spaceman101 (01/02/14 01:38 PM)


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: spaceman101]
    #19358650 - 01/02/14 01:46 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

spaceman101 said:
Hey I thought I could add something to this tread that I haven't seen brought up but in a few other threads I found this
Quote:

First update of the season: "Their was a picture of seedlings grouped together in a pot that he was talking about thinning out and replanting but I don't really know how properly copy and post it"
Got some sprouts poppin' up,soon it will be time to thin them to clusters of 2 or 3 every few inches or so!






But at the same time I've found many places, Teks, posts ,threads and sites that say uprooting and replanting poppies often kill them so how would this be possible?




Very young poppy can be transplanted with caution.

Older poppy will die to stress of transplanting.

However, when you germinate the seeds, there are very small and tough plants just enough size you see them, they are at that size small enough they don't have big root system.

Problem is with poppy, if you damage the root system plant dies, it's only weakness with this plant, basically it should be whole life at the place where you germinate it, but just germinated young plants can be transplanted with caution. Transplanting is not possible after plant starts to develop bigger foliage and bigger root system, otherwise it can be done.

One way is to use pots where roots can grow out. You can germinate and grow plants on these pots made from material what decay. When plants are old enough you can move whole pot to new environment and let poppy grow with no harm done. Sorry I don't know english word for the pot I mean but later on roots grow out from these pots to new soil. So only you need to transplant small pot to new soil.

There is thin line when you can transplant poppies and when it's not anymore possible.

However, I have never transplanted poppies nor even think of it. I always sow them to place where they spent all their life cycle.

About one week old poppy seedling can be transplanted easily, they are small at that time and small enough transplant works.. I don't know why poppy is very hard plant for sudden changes in soil, even it grows almost everywhere and in almost every soil mix you possible can offer, but they just don't tolerate transplanting at all.. Basic rule would be, you should transplant the poppies before they turn to really visible plants anyway.. I think so, I have never transplanted poppies but I have seen many times how they germinate and turn to adult plants.

You can think poppy plant is basically totally different when it's just germinated young small plant compared to plant what have started to grow foliage.

You need to do transplant before plants "change" to different "form"


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Edited by intelligentlife (01/02/14 01:48 PM)


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Invisiblespaceman101
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19359649 - 01/02/14 05:04 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Thank you intelligentlife for your quick answers so I think I'm good to sow some seed in the empty plot under my tree with little ill effects. Does anyone have anything else to add, maybe a personal experience from growing poppies under a tree or even in partial sunlight?

BTW your English is great and I don't think I have ever had a problem understanding what you've written even though I tend to read a lot of your posts since it is always helpful.


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19363560 - 01/03/14 01:56 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

intelligentlife said:

Best way I have find out to grow poppies is outdoors. No matter what.. Better to have more root space for plants so you have bigger amount of plant material, anyway.

Do you planned to slice the pods and harvest opium or let pods dry and do extraction from plants like big pharma companies do?






I am planning to collect opium and to also use pods to make tea. Can I first extract some opium and then after that use the same pod for making an still effective tea?

Thank you for your very detailed reply. I'll give it a try and tommorow take some seeds out. Maybe it would be the best option to
sow them with space-between in mind, so I don't have to transplant
them at all. I'll start some outside and some inside, and see.
The only problem outside in my garden, are bugs and insects that eat the plants. I have had some cabbage sown outside in the summer which is now almost totally eaten, especially cause I don't approve using any chemichals within. Are poppies resistable to parasites or I could maybe use some neem as a natural pesticide from begining?


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Offlineintelligentlife
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19364061 - 01/03/14 04:02 PM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Best thing outdoors are predatory bugs as well.. :thumbup:

Spiders and ladybugs will find their pray and control them. You can't get rid of all bugs but balance will be ok.

I can't say about harvesting opium and later on use pods.

Only I know, big pharma industry harvest all "old plants" ...plants where pods doesn't leak anymore. then they extract the stuff inside plant with chemicals.

Anyway, I have find out poppy pods are very potent if you let the be, they are basically full of opium, actually modern pharma industry use every part of plant, there is small amount of opium everywhere but major concentration is in the pod.

If you don't slice the pods, there are opium inside, when pod is old enough color goes more "blackish" and it doesn't leak anymore.. Anyway these are pods with opium in the tissues, you can dry them, take seeds and grind dry pods and make tea.

It's "old fashion" way to collect opium via slicing and so on but not bad way, modern way is to get everything is collect foliage, stock and pod, grind them, and extract. I don't know how the extraction process goes but I think there is easy way's to do it. Just make a tea from all plant material and evaporate water, you should have black opium tar by that way. I don't know what chemicals pharma industry use but they really just harvest all and extract goods later.

And one thing is because in my country, poppy is illegal if pods are sliced so I grow them, wait before they are at stage they don't leak but are full of good stuff, then I collect them, dry and use as material for poppy tea. No doubt I have not felt nice warming high of morphine.. :smile:

You can do what you see the best, but unharmed poppy pod is still full of opium anyway and good material for tea, but best way to do have something to smoke is slice the pods and harvest the ope. I have done it few times but I have find out it's easier just to collect "old pods" and dry them for material to make tea.. Few pods to tea and few minutes of boiling, the bitter taste there is and feel of fantastic high.. It's not still so strong and fast compared to smoked ope, but anyway it's not bad at all...

I have succeed to got active pods even in there arctic, plant can't grow as wild there but I can sow them outdoors and harvest pods when frosts kill the plants and they are ready about that time... However, I need more pods compared to pods grown more south but I have really not find out pods are "too weak" or "inactive"

..It's just my way to use poppy plant, wait till pod have seeds ready and it doesn't leak anything, these pods are most potent ones. Opium is still inside the plant, just grind the dried pods good and mix with boiling water, bitter "opiate" taste will tell when you have proper dose of tea, also color of tea indicates much.. :yesnod:

Please report what kind of result you have later.. I'm curious, but if you are in mediterrain area, why not to grow poppies outdoors many harvests? :cookiemonster:


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19369177 - 01/04/14 04:47 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Thank you very much, my friend, I've learnt a lot from you, and certainly shall report results :wink:


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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19369519 - 01/04/14 06:02 PM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Well poppy tea is very old way to consume this plant, you can use every part of plant.

I just have good experiences from dried seed pods but they need to be old enough and contain mature seeds, there are for sure ope inside the tissue of plant, that's why when it's young it probably bleed it but if you think you never cut the pod, it's basically full of opium and tea is good.

One thing I could say, if you harvest pods when they leak when you puncture them, for some reason I have find out they're not so strong compared to these pods what starts to get black/purple coloration around.. I think the coloration comes when the white opium starts to "get old" inside the pod and someway it can be seen like pod turns "transparent"

One way also to test out can you cut off the pod is just shake it, if it starts to rattle, it's good to cut off.. Take it from very top of the poppy plant, it will branch out few new pods later and you can have two harvests from same poppy plant.

And I mean by harvest not actual opium, only older pods. I have learned to see from coloration of seed pod when it's not leaking anymore ope, but if I have get high from pods by grind them and done tea, I'm sure they have the opium inside and it doesn't vanish everywhere, maybe that's why pods turn to black/violet because pod starts to die and ope starts turn black and are visible trough thin skin of pod.

Ofc if you want something to smoke, then you need to slice the pods and collect the opium.

I would do that but I have serious reasons why I keep my poppy plants without any wounds, simply wounded poppies are illegal and I don't want illegal poppies to my yard or greenhouse. So easy way is just collect "ready pods" where is opium inside already and drink the tea.

It's hard to know dosage of opium tea but I can tell, more bitter poppy tea taste, more stronger morphine and codeine content you have in tea, also dark color and bitter taste indicate strong tea.

I think I can say "dosage" because it's not accurate and you need to find it out by testing but watch out you don't take overdose. I have used 10-30 small pods to one dose. Bigger pods, less you need, but there is not really accurate dosage possible to say, if poppy plants grow stunted and small, then you need really over 30 small pods or maybe more to even got one dose of opium tea.

If pods are "normal size" ~3-4cm wide, I could say start with 5 pods and taste, if it's not bitter you can do bigger dose..

One cautious thing I want to say also: If you find our tea is extremely bitter and dark, don't drink everything at once.. it can be fatal potency. There are known deaths to poppy tea.. Even it's unlikely but possible so use your taste and eyes and go first with slow dose.. When you know your poppies potency, then it's more safer to take bigger dosages.

Just be cautious, I have lost friend to opiate drugs, not directly to poppy tea but consumption of oxycontin pills. I think you know it's not drug you can take too much for fun. Also poppy pods are hard because some strains can be potent and some can be weak, also size of pod are different so it's hard to say amount how much pods you need to one good high without taking overdose.

Best hint I can offer is just taste and feel the tea, more bitter the tea taste, more easier you can take overdose and stop breathing.

Good luck for growing poppies.:thumbup:
Be careful and start with low dosage to find out how potent pods you have. When you have find out potency and know your poppies then I can suggest to take bigger dose to get nice warming high without danger of overdosing. :nyan:

I can't wait to sow my own poppy plants to greenhouse.. I can harvest two times one plant because they branch 3-6 new pods after you cut the main pod off. Some poppy plants can grow several branches without harvesting the main pod. I have had one strain what grows typically 2-5 pods per plant.. :crazy2:


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Invisibleluther7hrol
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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19371479 - 01/05/14 06:00 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Thank you, it really makes me happy to know there are people like you willing to explain everything and help out others, I can't wait to have my first yields :smile:)

Can you tell me one more thing: how much stronger opium goes in comparison to morphine (or even H)? I suppose more potent smoked opium could be even stronger than those because of all the other alkaloids inside, which are excluded from m or h.


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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: luther7hrol]
    #19371834 - 01/05/14 08:50 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

luther7hrol said:
Thank you, it really makes me happy to know there are people like you willing to explain everything and help out others, I can't wait to have my first yields :smile:)

Can you tell me one more thing: how much stronger opium goes in comparison to morphine (or even H)? I suppose more potent smoked opium could be even stronger than those because of all the other alkaloids inside, which are excluded from m or h.




The thing is that the other alkaloids (codeine and thebaine) are actually weaker than morphine. I'm pretty sure smoked H would be stronger than smoked opium.


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Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19372350 - 01/05/14 11:04 AM (10 years, 26 days ago)

I can't advice how different morphine diacetate, heroin is compared to actual opium smoking, they are different stuff anyway.

Also opium morphine and codeine content makess things different, codeine metabolize to morphine in your system, codeine(methylated morphine) is basically inactive and enzymes break it to morphine. Opium content are hard to say how much there is morphine and methylated morphine and depends on person how much the codeine will effect the high. Some people seems to claim codeine totally inactive and another can say codeine gives very good high.. Well codeine high is basically morphine high and it starts after liver starts to metabolize methylated morphine to morphine. Your system produce morphine from codeine rougly 1-10% from taken codeine, rest of the stuff goes to "waste" basically. Therefor smoking ope, you need to test it but effects are almost similar to pure morphine, dosage of opium is not same to pure morphine tho.


It's tricky to say from smoked ope, it's for sure person feels morphine but how much codeine effect overall it depends totally who smoke it. Also tolerance have it's own rule, as well as thebaine what is not so strong narcotic opiate compared to morphine and codeine.

However, you should not try to compare opium tea or opium smoking to pure morphine.. One big reason is you don't know the exact morphine content and codeine basically "boost up" some and after codeine have metabolized partly to morphine it will effect also with the morphine.

There are also different strains of poppy, some have more codeine and some have less, some have more morphine in tar and some have less, so actual mass of opium doesn't tell you anything how much of stuff you have in the tar from plant.

When you know your poppy plants and know the opium how much you need to get effect, then you can basically know how much you can smoke it without overdose or so..

Effects are basically same than pharmaseutical strong opiates, oxys or morphine pills resemble the high of opium.

More different it makes you can't know about opium tar how much there really are active stuff because lots of opium are just inactive stuff with morphine, codeine and thebaine in it.

Basically only way to know how smoked opium tar effect to you is to take some amount of ope and smoke it and feel, better start from small and then dose up when you know what kind of effects you have. Also I suggest to use scale and weight your first patch of smoked ope so you know what effects certain amount of opium tar gives to you..

Codeine amount is relatively low in every opium tar so it doesn't make much of a different but because of it, another person can feel same opium more stronger compared to another, depends on your liver enzymes how much actual codeine are metabolized to morphine in your system or so..

Highest content of active alkaloid are still morphine in the opium tar, codeine gives some boost and it's purely up to person what kind of metabolism there is and how person react to codeine..

I can say from my self about 100mg of codeine is equal to 5-10mg of morphine for me. My brother says he feels codeine more stronger and he dose codeine about 30-50% of amount I have used to take codeine. But we are different persons.

However, codeine content are probably not so high there is danger of overdose because of it but that should be know when using opium and want to get high from it. What is good dose for you, can be overdose to your friend, also tolerance have big role with opiates, long term opiate use makes naturally your tolerance higher and long term users can take doses what are basically fatal amounts to people who have no tolerance at all.

With caution and knowing what stuff you are smoking or how strong pods you use to make tea, using opium is not a big risk, but addiction and tolerance are risk and cause withdrawals very easy. I don't suggest to use any opiates long time, more tolerance you build up, more harder the withdrawals are and more stuff you need to feel high.. later on you don't even feel high, you just get healthy by taking the dose.. I'm opiate addict, now using buprenorphine for pain and it's prescribed for me because it block also abuse of opiates.. Doctors doesn't wanted to prescribe me any "real opiates" because then I can use even codeine to get high.. Now with buprenorphine I can't feel the effects of codeine at all, also oxy's and other strong painkillers doesn't give me so pleasant high because of buprenorphine I use for pain.

Know your body and tolerance, then find out the potency of opium or poppy pods, then start to get high safely..

I would never try to have the "best high" from opium I have never smoked before to test out how potent it is.. There is always risk of smoking too much.. Remember; you can always take more, but never cancel the overdosing.

Usually opium and opium tea is not so strong it can lead to serious overdose but there are people who have died to opium tea or smoked opium.. Some have died from first big dose, some have died because they dose up constantly more and more.. Opiates cause human lungs to act slower, too much and you don't breath anymore and you need someone to save you in order to survive overdose of opiates.

I know one story and real acciden happened to smack addict couple. My friend had two syringes of smack at home, another dosed to his girlfriend and another to him. Well his girlfriend doesn't know that and have been injected his boyfriend stuff and stop breathing, without his boyfriend first aid and call of ambulance, that woman would be dead now. There was just issue, the man had probably bigger tolerance to smack compared to his gf and while he was away, his gf was accidentally taken wrong syringe and my friend found her lying on the floor and she doesn't breath but he managed to save her.

Even opium is not as strong as smack, it can kill.. With good knowledge of opiates and actual opium, you can use it safely and avoid accidentally taken overdose. Also dosing up more and more too constantly can lead to serious overdose. Same thing is with the tea, if you drink constantly more and more without counting how much you drink, it can suddenly go from good high to overdose and your lungs stop breathing because opiates effects to breathing so much. That's why codeine, morphine and heroin are very effective cough medicines because they effect your breath.

Therefor always with opiates like oxy's, smack, opium and few other "products" should be know the effects of the opiates totally, they will give nice pleasant an warm feeling and high but same time effects to breath are major reason why people die to overdose of opiates.

Big and small doses basically paralyze your lungs too big dose paralyze lungs totally and strong paralyzing effect to lungs are very good way to use opium as cough medicine. And you never know when it's too much taken your lungs doesn't work anymore, lungs are passively acting organism and because opium effects to lungs, always remember how much you have taken and remember to test out the product before take to get "very good high".. There are very small different compared to good high and overdose.. Always test your stuff with small dose before you dose big amounts. Tea or smoked.. Tea will effect with delay so it's basically more dangerous if used too much.


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Invisibleluther7hrol
Throl Master
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Registered: 12/21/13
Posts: 25
Loc: Mediterranean
Re: Can't germinate poppies and other growing problems [Re: intelligentlife]
    #19382266 - 01/07/14 12:39 PM (10 years, 23 days ago)

Thank you, I keep in mind everything you adviced me!
Please, be very careful with bup(renorphine) not to combine it with opiates at all for I have lost several friends to this combo... I decided, personally, as best to turn to Nature totally and therefore opium, I wouldn't ever ever take those chems cause the pharma cartels keep experimenting on us everyday for profite and control, and am scared of bup and similar drugs whose effects to brain are not yet known to us.


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