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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Phred]
    #19352059 - 12/31/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Of course they don't call it a pollutant.  I never claimed they did.  But nearly every climate expert agrees that climate change is partially caused by human activity increasing carbon dioxide concentration.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19352100 - 12/31/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Of course they don't call it a pollutant.  I never claimed they did.  But nearly every climate expert agrees that climate change is partially caused by human activity increasing carbon dioxide concentration.




The EPA has deemed it a pollutant.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19352122 - 12/31/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yup.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19352159 - 12/31/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Of course they don't call it a pollutant.  I never claimed they did.  But nearly every climate expert agrees that climate change is partially caused by human activity increasing carbon dioxide concentration.



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Of course they don't call it a pollutant.  I never claimed they did.  But nearly every climate expert agrees that climate change is partially caused by human activity increasing carbon dioxide concentration.




The EPA has deemed it a pollutant.



Quote:

Enlil said:
Yup.




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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19352199 - 12/31/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Your reading comprehension sucks.  Phred said scientists don't call co2 a pollutant...I agreed.


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19352382 - 12/31/13 07:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Of course they don't call it a pollutant.  I never claimed they did.  But nearly every climate expert agrees that climate change is partially caused by human activity increasing carbon dioxide concentration.




I think now,  most climate experts don't think CO2 is significant as a greenhouse gas, but that halogenated hydrocarbons are.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: falcon]
    #19352438 - 12/31/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Some think that, but I dont think most do.  Still 97% agree that climate change is anthropogenic.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19353228 - 12/31/13 11:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well, we are having a record cold winter.  I guess its because CO2 is trapping heat and causing 'warming' :smirk:

On a serious note, at least one group of researchers have noted that the falling temperatures in the last few years are well coordinated with the sunspot activity.

What is not EVER mentioned in any of these theories is that the atmospeheric cycles/temperature changes are part of a FEEDBACK CONTROL SYSTEM.  It has a certain response time.  It takes tens of years for any change in a variable to be realized.  And by that time, some mechanicsm has acted that counteracts the effect. 

The earth is remarkably resilient.  Given a change, it's chemistry/reactions/feedback will change in such a way as to balance out the changes that occur.

The same thing happens in the human body.  If say, a certain chemical/neurotransmitter, etc, gets too high, the body reacts and changes its metabolism and offsets the changes and, in effect neutralizes them.

To think that man with his pathetic little amounts of energy/pollutants causes great change is ridiculous.

Just the activity of sunspots has enough energy to alter the affects of the weather for tens of years--way more than anything man could do. 

And the key word there is ENERGY.. It takes energy to make changes.  What is the source of energy that is greatest in the Solar System?  THE SUN..  Not the lame little amounts of energy generated by man made processes.  I mean you have to be an arrogant son of a bitch to believe that man puts out energy that is even close to what the sun produces.  And energy is the source of change--weather, temperature change, etc. 


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19353246 - 12/31/13 11:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)


red box is modern day


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Offlinehappygolucky
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19353313 - 01/01/14 12:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Here is Alexander Tyler’s (or whoever’s) observation:

    "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years.

During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence: 1. From bondage to spiritual faith; 2. From spiritual faith to great courage; 3. From courage to liberty; 4. From liberty to abundance; 5. From abundance to complacency; 6. From complacency to apathy; 7. From apathy to dependence; 8. From dependence back into bondage."

America has been on a steady decline in every facet since the end of WWII. That was the height of her power, even though she allied with one of largest butchers in history, the Soviet Union, which killed at least 60,000,000 white Christians. This nation is so ass backwards, that when the demise of this nation is spoken of in generations to come, it will be a marvel how a people could be so blind and ignorant, and so easily deceived. Well, maybe it hasn't been easy, but nevertheless most people are simply brainwashed.


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Offlinehappygolucky
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: happygolucky]
    #19353321 - 01/01/14 12:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Ha, and there's still people who believe in global warming. Do they know about this?

http://weathermodification.com/


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19353809 - 01/01/14 06:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Well, we are having a record cold winter.  I guess its because CO2 is trapping heat and causing 'warming' :smirk:


Weather and climate aren't the same thing
Quote:



And the key word there is ENERGY.. It takes energy to make changes.  What is the source of energy that is greatest in the Solar System?  THE SUN..  Not the lame little amounts of energy generated by man made processes.  I mean you have to be an arrogant son of a bitch to believe that man puts out energy that is even close to what the sun produces.  And energy is the source of change--weather, temperature change, etc. 



This is where you miss the whole point.  No one is claiming that human energy releases are warming the planet.  Over 97% of climate scientists are of the opinion that humans are to blame for global warming, however.
See also this.


I'll take their opinions over the opinion of a few anonymous internet users any day.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19353888 - 01/01/14 07:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Over 97% of climate scientists are of the opinion that humans are to blame for global warming, however




You mean the 97% of the 77 active climatologists that answered the survey?

Huh.

I'm not a climatologist. I don't know one way or the other. I do know enough to not take bandied about numbers seriously though. As a lawyer, why don't you?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19353942 - 01/01/14 08:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Over 97% of climate scientists are of the opinion that humans are to blame for global warming, however.
See also this.


I'll take their opinions over the opinion of a few anonymous internet users any day.



This is why you believe the absurd things you do... you uncritically accept as gospel the spewings of bullshit artists. That 97% number has been debunked by dozens of different statisticians by now. The survey from which that figure was plucked was totally bogus to begin with and the reporting on it hysterically exaggerated. Here is just one of dozens of analyses thoroughly eviscerating it --

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/11/20/the-97-consensus-myth-busted-by-a-real-survey/

Read it and weep.



Phred


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19353955 - 01/01/14 08:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
Over 97% of climate scientists are of the opinion that humans are to blame for global warming, however




You mean the 97% of the 77 active climatologists that answered the survey?




No...97% of the 11,944 papers written on the subject that express an opinion....

Phred: That link speaks to a different number altogether, but you're welcome to believe whatever you want.  I actually read the meta-study AND the dissenting studies.  If you had done the same, you'd likely come to the same conclusion I did.  Unfortunately, that won't happen because you're content to have your information fed to you by those who share your political philosophy. 

The only debate about the cause of global warming is in the media and in politics.  There is no real debate among experts.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19354024 - 01/01/14 09:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Link the paper to which you refer. If it's the garbage by Cook and Nuccitelli, I've read it. It is bunk. It is massively flawed in several ways, as dozens of critics have pointed out in great detail.

Quote:

Unfortunately, that won't happen because you're content to have your information fed to you by those who share your political philosophy. 

The only debate about the cause of global warming is in the media and in politics.  There is no real debate among experts.



There is no one posting in this forum who is better informed on the global warming scam than I am. Unlike the majority who natter on about it here, I read far more extensively than they do, and I understand what I read.

There is no evidence that the earth's atmosphere is warming by any statistically significant amount due to humans burning stuff. None. However, that fact is beside the point when it comes to political discussion.


Phred


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Phred]
    #19354052 - 01/01/14 09:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

You're right.  It is irrelevant to the topic of the thread and the forum.  In addition, it's completely fruitless to argue the issue with a self-proclaimed expert who disregards the consensus of real experts on the topic.

In the end, it's obvious that you're just another conservative defending the party line simply because it's the party line.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19354105 - 01/01/14 09:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Well, we are having a record cold winter.  I guess its because CO2 is trapping heat and causing 'warming' :smirk:


Weather and climate aren't the same thing
Quote:



And the key word there is ENERGY.. It takes energy to make changes.  What is the source of energy that is greatest in the Solar System?  THE SUN..  Not the lame little amounts of energy generated by man made processes.  I mean you have to be an arrogant son of a bitch to believe that man puts out energy that is even close to what the sun produces.  And energy is the source of change--weather, temperature change, etc. 



This is where you miss the whole point.  No one is claiming that human energy releases are warming the planet.  Over 97% of climate scientists are of the opinion that humans are to blame for global warming, however.
See also this.


I'll take their opinions over the opinion of a few anonymous internet users any day.





You are a lawyer, I'm an engineer and scientist.  this link is nothing but opinions about what people think.

I deal in facts.  Someone show me tha data that supports the climate change theory and Ill believe it. 

I want someone to show me the hot, hard cock on global warming.  And you know what?  If it exists, I haven't seen it. 

Enlil, you of all people should know that a bunch of opinions and speculation isn't anything but rubbish when it comes to proving a point.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: Enlil]
    #19354130 - 01/01/14 09:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

In addition, it's completely fruitless to argue the issue with a self-proclaimed expert who disregards the consensus of real experts on the topic.



Once again --

Matters of scientific fact are not determined by consensus.

There is no consensus among those who are experts in the field. The 97% figure is complete and utter bullshit.

Quote:

In the end, it's obvious that you're just another conservative defending the party line simply because it's the party line.



Facts have nothing to do with political leaning. And the thing about the whole Global Warming scam is that it has nothing to do with facts. It has always been agenda-driven pseudo-science from its earliest days but with each year that passes it becomes harder and harder for objective people to ignore the lack of evidence that humans burning stuff requires government policies being imposed to avert disaster.


Phred


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Republicans and Democrats Explain Something To Me..... [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19354131 - 01/01/14 09:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

When 97% of the experts agree, it's probative.  Similarly, expert opinions have always been admissible evidence.  As I've repeatedly said, I'm not an expert...so I can only rely on those who are.  I also think that it's very interesting the way that non-expert opinions seem to divide along party lines.


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