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OfflineTheHulk69
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Registered: 12/21/13
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PF Tek Cakes Wetness
    #19308976 - 12/21/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Greetings,
I'm in the process of embarking on my first cultivation, I inoc'd 5 1/2 pint(tall version) following the 2:1:1 ratio, unfortunately I don't think I let the verm absorb the water fully before adding the BRF, thus leaving me with a clumpy solution in my jars. If I understand correctly the jars will colonize fine, perhaps taking a little longer than normal, however should I flip my jars over so the verm layer absorbs excess water? I should add that I inoc'd my jars on 12/17. Here is a picture so you can see what I mean by the clumpiness.
Thanks :smile:
Glad I finally signed up here


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OfflineSgtPepperNo9
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: TheHulk69]
    #19309016 - 12/21/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No, you want the verm layer to remain dry.  It is your barrier to help block contams from reaching down to your BRF substrate where they are much more likely to grow.  Flipping would disrupt all this and will more likely lead to a contam. 

After going through a few sets of jars I have found that the perfect amount of water seems to be slightly less than that ratio.  Say I am mixing 1/2 cups at a time so 1 cup verm and slightly less than 1/2 cup water.  Mixed up extremely well.  I then take a handful and squeeze.  If it feels too dry and no water droplets fall then I add the rest of the water but typically it lets a couple drops fall so I know I am at capacity.  I then mix in the BRF, full 1/2 cup.  I mix it in a little at a time and very lightly.  This way the BRF doesn't clump up and just coats the water/verm. 

It took a couple of rounds to figure out what worked best for me.  I noticed the jars that I thought were too wet never colonized.  They didn't necessarily contam either. 

PLUS, remember that depending on the amount of spore solution you inject you may throw the water content off.  1cc per jar.  A little more or less is fine but if you have an already wet substrate and add 5cc of solution it is just going to make it that much wetter.


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OfflineUs.Two
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: SgtPepperNo9]
    #19309423 - 12/21/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SgtPepperNo9 said:
No, you want the verm layer to remain dry.  It is your barrier to help block contams from reaching down to your BRF substrate where they are much more likely to grow.  Flipping would disrupt all this and will more likely lead to a contam. 

After going through a few sets of jars I have found that the perfect amount of water seems to be slightly less than that ratio.  Say I am mixing 1/2 cups at a time so 1 cup verm and slightly less than 1/2 cup water.  Mixed up extremely well.  I then take a handful and squeeze.  If it feels too dry and no water droplets fall then I add the rest of the water but typically it lets a couple drops fall so I know I am at capacity.  I then mix in the BRF, full 1/2 cup.  I mix it in a little at a time and very lightly.  This way the BRF doesn't clump up and just coats the water/verm. 

It took a couple of rounds to figure out what worked best for me.  I noticed the jars that I thought were too wet never colonized.  They didn't necessarily contam either. 

PLUS, remember that depending on the amount of spore solution you inject you may throw the water content off.  1cc per jar.  A little more or less is fine but if you have an already wet substrate and add 5cc of solution it is just going to make it that much wetter.



This is excellent advice.
From the looks of it bro your substrate is WAY too soaked. I literally just chucked 4 jars for this exact reason.

Here's my advice: Take ONE jar and open it. Then go over a trashcan or outside and dump it out on your hand. If it's soaked then I'd suggest you trash em all and start over.  The amount of water that teks tell you to use is highly dependent on how much spore solution/LC you use.


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OfflineTheHulk69
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: Us.Two]
    #19309528 - 12/21/13 08:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Both of your guys input is highly appreciated!
I suppose it is as I suspected, either these jars are gonna take forever or just stall :frown:
I used 1/4Cc per hole(1cc) a jar, so I don't think I flooded it with my spore solution.
My Vern is prolly around med grade and I couldn't find a distinct answer when I searched so I don't think that's my problem. I suppose now I shall just check them later.. On a side note it allows me a chance to try some wbs/popcorn or maybe a lc

Thanks dudes!


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: TheHulk69]
    #19309561 - 12/21/13 09:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

maybe try some finer verm nest time


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OfflineTheHulk69
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: cronicr]
    #19334390 - 12/27/13 08:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Hello again Shroomery,

I have another question, my cakes(~2weeks)are starting to show wonderful growth of what I assume to be mycelium, however in my jars there appears to be verm stuck/pushed up to the side with some metabolites surrounding, will this cause problems with colonization? Also in picture 1 there is some specks on the mycelium, perhaps some verm or the beginnings of a serious problem? Thanks for any input dudes! It's all appreciated, I'm planning to crumble and birth these guys into coir/verm or manure(if i can get some)in either a mono/dubtub, in case anyone was curious..


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OfflineTheHulk69
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: TheHulk69]
    #19334394 - 12/27/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)







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OfflineQuexl
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: TheHulk69]
    #19334416 - 12/27/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Vermiculite transports water amongst grains very easily, so when you mix all your jars at once in a big bowl some will get more X than the others. My solution was to mix each individual jar in a single beaker at exact amounts and always do it that way now. It's excessive, but it works for me.

Condensate during colonization is normal, muddy medium at inoculation is not.

I was actually surprised at how little moisture they need to be active. Think meat loaf! XD

Awesome CFUs :thumbup:

Sometimes the dry verm tumbles down the sides when you agitate the jars (just leave them alone, always upright, always, handle carefully).


--------------------
grain spawn bacteria info


Edited by Quexl (12/27/13 08:48 PM)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: TheHulk69]
    #19335744 - 12/28/13 06:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TheHulk69 said:

My Vern is prolly around med grade and I couldn't find a distinct answer when I searched so I don't think that's my problem.




That's course grade verm and it's exactly the problem.  You're supposed to use fine verm as shown in the brf tek video.  Fine verm absorbs and holds much more water than course verm.

You're also supposed to use the fat 1/2 pint wide mouth jars.  With tall jars, the water runs to the bottom by gravity where it pools up, preventing colonization.

I'd start over.
RR


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OfflineTheHulk69
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19349473 - 12/31/13 12:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

TheHulk69 said:

My Vern is prolly around med grade and I couldn't find a distinct answer when I searched so I don't think that's my problem.




That's course grade verm and it's exactly the problem.  You're supposed to use fine verm as shown in the brf tek video.  Fine verm absorbs and holds much more water than course verm.

You're also supposed to use the fat 1/2 pint wide mouth jars.  With tall jars, the water runs to the bottom by gravity where it pools up, preventing colonization.

I'd start over.
RR




Thanks a bunch for all the input dudes,
you will be pleased to hear that I set up some new jars this evening,
I used my same bag o verm, but I ran it through a strainer to get the finer stuff, and I must say the jars look beautiful :smile: (better than my earlier ones at least), they're still in the tall 1/2 pints, which I realize some people have had trouble with but it is all I have atm. They're in the steamer right now, I still have my previous batch of jars and it appears that they are still colonizing, but they are definitely at a higher chance of contaming.
Thanks again everyone, I'm super pumped if you couldn't tell lol


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OfflineNOTFALL3N
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: TheHulk69]
    #19350035 - 12/31/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The tall reg mouth half pint jars are fine I prefer those anyway when u fruit dunk and roll then put a mound of Verm on top where the dimple is and keep I moist so u can get a nice pinset and keep the cake moist.


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Invisiblemushmagic
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: NOTFALL3N]
    #19350060 - 12/31/13 07:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

NOTFALL3N said:
The tall reg mouth half pint jars are fine I prefer those anyway when u fruit dunk and roll then put a mound of Verm on top where the dimple is and keep I moist so u can get a nice pinset and keep the cake moist.




You actually have better luck with the regular mouth jars as opposed to the wide mouths? They colonize so much slower and even tend to completely stall out on people sometimes.


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OfflineNOTFALL3N
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: mushmagic]
    #19350070 - 12/31/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well it started out as I couldn't find any wide mouth jars so I started buying reg mouth and I've never had any stall out on me and they may colonize slower yes, but never stalled out about the worse thing that's happen was it just not colonizing all together lol and that was my fault all I was saying that they were fine and no worth starting over because of jar size!


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Invisiblemushmagic
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: NOTFALL3N]
    #19350078 - 12/31/13 07:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yea I wouldn't scrap it either I'd atleast let them try to finish, I was just curious as to why you prefer the regular mouth ones.


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OfflineNOTFALL3N
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: mushmagic]
    #19350089 - 12/31/13 07:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yea all I can find right now I do use plastic some but for the most part I've always had good luck with reg mouth but moved on to wbs so whatever. Lol
Not saying there better just work!!


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: mushmagic]
    #19350123 - 12/31/13 07:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushmagic said:
Quote:

NOTFALL3N said:
The tall reg mouth half pint jars are fine I prefer those anyway when u fruit dunk and roll then put a mound of Verm on top where the dimple is and keep I moist so u can get a nice pinset and keep the cake moist.




You actually have better luck with the regular mouth jars as opposed to the wide mouths? They colonize so much slower and even tend to completely stall out on people sometimes.



I've always had good luck with the tall half pints(regular mouth) Never had slow or stalled colonization in 100+ cakes.
I still have some pictures of the tall half pint grows in the oldest part of my gallery.


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OfflineNOTFALL3N
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19350133 - 12/31/13 07:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Lol


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Invisiblemushmagic
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: bodhisatta]
    #19351410 - 12/31/13 02:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

mushmagic said:
Quote:

NOTFALL3N said:
The tall reg mouth half pint jars are fine I prefer those anyway when u fruit dunk and roll then put a mound of Verm on top where the dimple is and keep I moist so u can get a nice pinset and keep the cake moist.




You actually have better luck with the regular mouth jars as opposed to the wide mouths? They colonize so much slower and even tend to completely stall out on people sometimes.



I've always had good luck with the tall half pints(regular mouth) Never had slow or stalled colonization in 100+ cakes.
I still have some pictures of the tall half pint grows in the oldest part of my gallery.




Weird maybe it's just me but when I did the regular mouths they went horribly slow.


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Don't judge a man by what kinda shoes he in, judge a man on where that man's shoes been.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: mushmagic]
    #19351452 - 12/31/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

some get lucky with there innoculations, i prefer to take a little water out of the recipe to avoid such issues as much as possible


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OfflineNOTFALL3N
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Re: PF Tek Cakes Wetness [Re: mushmagic]
    #19351457 - 12/31/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well about 3 weeks for most some a month!


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