Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomMan Mycology
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisibleDark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19350923 - 12/31/13 12:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

LSD doesn't absorb through the skin. That has been disproven by such experts as Dr. Nichols & Nick Sand. As far as chinacat goes, he's the real deal. Several old school shroomerites have met & hung out with him in the past. Of course all the newbs that are assuming he was a teenager weren't around back then. :smirk:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlines240779
Male Unread Journal User Gallery
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #19350997 - 12/31/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
LSD doesn't absorb through the skin. That has been disproven by such experts as Dr. Nichols & Nick Sand. As far as chinacat goes, he's the real deal.




Contradiction. chinacat says that he once absorbed LSD through his skin:

--
chinacat72 said:
Quote:




Tell us some other stories of lost inhibitions and blissful freedom please.

   



Allright one more story tonight :grin:
This one's from a dark period of my life 'but an important night.
It's 96 and i'm livin in a hotel down on fisherman's warf in San Francisco.
I am horribly addicted to herion. Ravaged and in the grips of the beast. My friend's try everything they can to reason with me. I blow them all off and only leave my hotel room to go to the post office and western union and then down to the mission district to score my dope for the day.
One day i'm in my room in my constant nod and a good freind comes by to see me. One of the elder heads that first showed me the ropes on tour. He sit's there and cries and tells me i'm rotting away and i'm like ya ya see ya later and he leaves. A little later he calles me and say's " We love you and you need to see the light" and hang's up. I'm like whatever man and as i hang up the phone i feel it. LSD crystal doesn't require you to eat it. If you get it on your skin you get high. And as i look at my hand where i held the phone when he called me there was little specks of white fluff all over. I realized he had sprinkled it on my phone.I was like noooooooooo not now. I knew i was in for a bad trip since being a junkie you get full of bad karma. I went into the bathroom and imediatly puked everywhere. It was coming on strong and fast. I layed down and saw what a ravaged wreck of a person i had become from this evil drug. I was at the end of my rope and took off out the door and down the hall out of the hotel. Hell i was probably going to jump into the bay. As soon as i got out side there was another of my close friend's waiting casually smoking a cigarette. He flicked it and said I think it's time we got out of the city and went up into the mountain's.
That's when my healing began. I was so sick , but i was taken care of.
I havn't touched herion since. I never will.
That's the Grateful Dead family for ya :wink:
--

2/25/03
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1335338#1335338


Nichols never proved anything; he just reiterated what Nick Sand said, which was that Sand coated his arm with a solution of LSD.


Edited by s240779 (12/31/13 12:42 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWebster10
Up like Trump
Male

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
Loc: Strawberry Fields Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #19351000 - 12/31/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
LSD doesn't absorb through the skin. That has been disproven by such experts as Dr. Nichols & Nick Sand. As far as chinacat goes, he's the real deal. Several old school shroomerites have met & hung out with him in the past. Of course all the newbs that are assuming he was a teenager weren't around back then. :smirk:



Could you please explain how Albert Hoffman went on his first LSD trip on accident then? And could you explain what really happened when chinacat72 said an old family member put fluff on his phone to make him trip to realize the horoors of his heroin addiction? In that thread he stated that if ANY amount of crystal touched your skin you were going to trip. But yes, thumbprints were done by putting crystalline LSD on your thumb and then licking it off becuase oral ingestion is, afterall more efficent then absorbtion through skin.


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlines240779
Male Unread Journal User Gallery
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
    #19351012 - 12/31/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Lucid Toast said:
Dude you take a thumbprint and after you survive you can tell me it's real. Then ill finish reading your paragraph.untill then stop posting bullshit om the shoomery were trying to clear up myths surrounding lsd and other drugs we don't need people like this here.
Thumbprints aren't real.




Quote:

Webster10 said:
Thank you, Lucid Toast, you have proven yourself to indeed be a troll or a moron. Robert Hunter took .25 grams of crystalline LSD. So there's your thumbprint.





There's much better evidence for thumbprints. That of a completely detailed medical report of people who did thumbprint-level doses:


"Most did not remember being brought to the hospital; otherwise, no apparent psychologic or physical ill effects were noted in a year of follow-up examinations of five patients. Most of the patients continue to use LSD intermittently."

Coma, Hyperthermia and Bleeding Associated with Massive LSD Overdose: A Report of Eight Cases. John C. Klock, MD, Udo Boerner, MS, and Charles E. Becker, MD. West J Med. 1974 March; 120(3): 183–188.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
    #19351033 - 12/31/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Albert Hofman had a history of having spontaneous mystical experiences, prior to the supposed accident. Furthermore, even a low dose of LSD lasts far longer then 2 hours, which is what was described in that experience.


Quote:

Editor's Introduction
At Mindstates IV, Dr David Nichols, chemist and pharmacologist, professor of medicinal chemistry and molecular pharmacology at Purdue University, proposed a novel alternate reading of Albert Hofmann's famous 1943 "Bicycle Day" and a brief overview of his research.


Presentation
I'm here to give you a report from the institutional research division of your community. If you pay taxes to the IRS, you support my research to understand how psychedelics affect brain chemistry; thank you.

Since we're just a slight bit past the 60th anniversary of the discovery of LSD, I thought I would have a little audience participation fun, and give you a little insight into how the scientific process works. Because, often times in this community, "scientist" has somewhat of a pejorative connotation. I want to show you how we're not so different, and do a little experiment.

You know the way science works. We make observations, we develop or formulate a hypothesis that is consistent with those observations, and then we attempt to carry out experiments to test the hypothesis. I don't think we'll be able to carry out the experiments to test the hypothesis, but what I want to do is develop a hypothesis today that I think you'll find very interesting. But the first thing we need to know is what kind of a database we're working with. What I'd like you to do is raise your hand if you have read Albert Hofmann's account of the discovery of LSD.

[nearly everyone in the conference hall raises their hand]

"The only hypothesis I can come up with that's consistent with all of these facts is that on April 16, 1943, Albert Hofmann did not get LSD in his body at all. He had a spontaneous mystical experience!"
Ah, just as I suspected. So we have a good database, and probably an educated database.

What I want to do now is another experiment. I want you to raise your hand and hold it in the air as long as I am stating things that you hold to be true, and when I say something you believe not to be true, then put your hand down.

So, the first thing I'm going to say, if you believe it to be true, raise your hand, and keep it up there until I say something you disagree with.

On April 16, 1943, when Albert Hofmann accidentally ingested LSD, he ingested at least 25 micrograms. Now keep your hand up until I say something you disagree with.

[most people in the audience raise their hands]

On that same date in 1943, Albert Hofmann ingested at least 50 micrograms of LSD.

[a few people put their hands down]

On that same date in 1943, Albert Hofmann ingested at least 75 micrograms.

[several more people put their hands down]

And then again, on that date in 1943, Albert Hofmann ingested at least 100 micrograms.

[more people put their hands down]

On that same date, Albert Hofmann ingested 150 micrograms.

[only a few people still have their hands still up]

Well I think I've already proved the point. I think there's a consensus that Albert Hofmann must have ingested at least 50 to 75 micrograms, and there are people in here who believe he must have ingested 100 or 150 micrograms. Now we've estimated, with this educated database, approximately how much LSD he must have accidentally gotten inside himself.

Now, we'll do the same thing again. In April 1943, after his accidental ingestion, how many people believe that Albert Hofmann would have experienced the effects of LSD for at least 10 hours, based on that dose?

[Several people put their hands up]

Now if we believe he took LSD, and if we believe he took 50 to 75 micrograms -- that's the context -- how many people believe the effects should have lasted at least 8 hours. [many more hands go up] How many believe the effects would have lasted at least 6 hours? [more hands go up] How believe the effects would have lasted at least four hours? [nearly all hands are up at this point]

Now, how many people believe that the effects of a 50-75 microgram dose of LSD would only have lasted two hours? [nearly all hands go down]

We read from his account:
"I perceived an uninterrupted stream of fantastic pictures, extraordinary shapes with intense, kaleidoscopic play of colors. After some two hours (emphasis added) this condition faded away." (Hofmann, 1983).

Well now, that was a conundrum for me. I read that and I thought, "gee I'm a scientist, and this doesn't make sense with what I know." And for most of you, I think, that doesn't make sense either. So, the question: how can we formulate a hypothesis consistent with this observation? We need to consider a few things.

We know that Albert originally synthesized LSD in 1938 as part of an ambitious program to make a number of lysergamides. LSD-25 was only the 25th in the series. I actually don't know how many of those compounds he made, but let's assume he only made 30. So we had up to 30 in the series. He may have made many more actually, but at least say 30. And they were all tested; he sent the pharmacology department LSD-25, 24, 23... and so forth. They then say, "LSD-25: not interesting." The assays of that day really didn't provide much information; they were very unsophisticated. But five years later, Albert has a hunch that the pharmacology department missed something on this 25th in the series.

Now that's kind of peculiar. I'm familiar with the drug industry, and I've actually started a small company myself. Imagine you're a musician, and you've created this musical piece. It's really wonderful; it's one of the best pieces you've ever written; you play it for people, they think it's great. And this one artist comes down. He's very creative but he has no musical talent at all, really tone deaf, he listens to your music and he says, "Man that sucks. You missed something. There's something missing." Now you as a musician are probably going to have some sort of a gut reaction to that. And even though the pharmacologist at Sandoz was probably a friend of Albert's, can you imagine this chemist coming down the hall and saying, "You know, I made this compound five years ago, out of this whole series, and there's this one compound, LSD-25, that you said was uninteresting... but you must have missed something. I just have this 'peculiar presentiment,' this strange hunch that you missed something." You're going to look at Albert and say, "You know, really, I'm an expert in pharmacology Albert. We tested it very well."

The Germans and the Swiss are very precise chemists, and pharmacologists, and scientists. There wouldn't have been any question about this being somehow mis-analyzed the first time.

This is another interesting point. Why the 25th? We know that only the 25th in the series was active. Any other compound that he made -- and I've made many of them, we've tested many of them -- none of the others approach LSD, either in its sophistication or in its potency. Only the 25th. And this is unusual. In pharmacology often you have a regular series. If we think of things like DOB, and DOI, there's a kind of regular progression. They all fit into a kind of subgenus. And LSD doesn't. We don't call the other members of the series Albert made as LSD something or other, but if we had LSD-23, 24 and 26, they would all be one-tenth the activity of LSD-25. Peculiar presentiment indeed!

As I've said, Swiss and German chemists have a reputation -- today and back then -- for being absolutely meticulous. If we had gone into Albert's lab at Sandoz in 1943, we would probably have found everything in its place, organized in an obsessively neat manner. No dirty glassware, no trash on the floor, meticulous. How in the world did a meticulous Swiss chemist get 50 to 75 micrograms or more of LSD into his body? We don't know.

Another fact: I've made LSD in my lab on many occasions for research purposes, possibly in not so meticulous a manner as Albert Hofmann. Nothing ever happened. I had several graduate students who made LSD as an intermediate for projects. No accidental ingestion of LSD ever occurred. A technician in my lab makes it routinely because we use it as a drug to train our rats. He's learned by experience that he never gets high, nothing ever happens. And yesterday I was talking to Nick Sand, and Nick said, "I made a solution of LSD in DMSO…" -- DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) is a chemical that greatly enhances absorption of other chemicals through the skin -- he says, "…I painted it on my skin. Nothing happened." A concentrated solution and nothing happened! How did this very meticulous Swiss chemist get the LSD into his body? I don't know.

The other fact we need to think about is when Albert was a child, he had a spontaneous mystical experience. Now depending on whether you're a psychologist or a psychiatrist or whatever, we could say that Albert had a predisposition to altered states of consciousness.

So what facts do we know? I'm going to formulate a hypothesis. He took a dose that by your consensus should have lasted certainly more than two hours, but it only lasted two hours. He was a meticulous chemist -- a Swiss chemist. Anyone I know who's worked with LSD -- and Nick Sand painted a solution of it on his arm -- didn't get high. This doesn't make sense. And what is this peculiar presentiment? Why the 25th in the series? Inexplicable! And, he was predisposed to altered states of consciousness.

The only hypothesis I can come up with that's consistent with all of these facts is that on April 16, 1943, Albert Hofmann did not get LSD in his body at all. He had a spontaneous mystical experience!

Now if I were working in the lab with a new chemical, and I started having kaleidoscopic visions of wonderful colors and patterns, my first thought wouldn't be that I was having a spontaneous experience. My first thought would be, "What was that new chemical I was working with? I need to tell Sasha about it." [laughter]

I think that's what happened, that's the hypothesis. We can't test that hypothesis, but when I saw Albert in Basel a couple years ago, I presented that particular hypothesis to him and said, "What do you think?" He said, "It's entirely possible." So, that's our little experiment, and I think most of you really didn't think seriously about the discovery of LSD, but it puts a different light on it.

Now one aside to that we could then bring up is this. If the force that caused him to have this peculiar presentiment -- and very peculiar it is -- is the same force that induced him to have this mystical experience, which caused him to focus on this chemical, we can hope it might happen again.


Overview of current research
I can't tell you all the things I do but let me just quickly give you an overview of what a hard scientist so-to-speak does, a reductionist scientist.

I look at how psychedelics affect brain chemistry. We make molecules. We make modified LSD analogues, we have a computer model of the serotonin receptor that's in the brain that we think is a target of these, computer generated that we discovered. We simulate the docking of these molecules to the receptor. We try to understand what are the amino acids in the receptor that interact with the different parts of the molecule. Then we look further in, we say when the molecule docks to the receptor, changes occur in the intercellular biochemistry. We look at the changes, how do those occur. My son who is a PhD in molecular biology doing neuropharmacology work at Vanderbilt has then looked even further and said what does LSD do to genetic regulation. He uses micro-array analysis to look at the gene expression changes following LSD in rats, and has seen changes in expression of 80 different genes. And then we have rat behavior where the rats tell us, "I think you gave me LSD" or "I don't think you gave me LSD." So we start from the design of the molecule, using computers, we synthesize the molecules, we then dock them in the receptor. We're mutating the receptor to change the amino acids so we can see how the complementary amino acids in the receptor modify the interaction with the drug. Then we look at the signaling in the receptor, what signaling pathways are turned on. And then ultimately to genetic regulation, where do protein expression changes occur.

We're looking at all the basic science -- preclinical stuff. I didn't have an MD degree so I couldn't do clinical research. This was sort of disturbing to me, but to get around it I founded the Heffter Research Institute, and they're doing all the clinical work. We're studying psilocybin -- in Zürich we have a clinical facility over there, with Franz Vollenweider. Most people know about the University of Arizona psilocybin study in OCD. Most people know about Charlie Grob's psilocybin study in terminal patients at UCLA. Those are all projects funded by the Heffter Institute.

So, we've translated everything from the basic science on into the clinical. I don't know if we can do a whole lot more. I'm doing as much as I can. We're not doing research with LSD, but I believe within a framework of 5 to 10 years, if we continue on and are successful with our psilocybin research, it will be possible to get protocols approved in the United States. We might start in Europe first but I think it will be possible to reinitiate clinical studies with LSD.





http://www.erowid.org/general/conferences/conference_mindstates4_nichols.shtml


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWebster10
Up like Trump
Male

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
Loc: Strawberry Fields Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
    #19351047 - 12/31/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you for clearing that up dark star. You seem very educated so, od it isn't too much work, could you list the methods of administering LSD from most efficient to least efficient?


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinerikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
    #19351124 - 12/31/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I am totally sure that for women its teh  Vaginal LSD dosing for all others I might be best to just eat lots of that SHIT ! :dancingbear:
And if your gay you should know what to do:dawerp:


Edited by rikuni (12/31/13 01:13 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlines240779
Male Unread Journal User Gallery
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #19351129 - 12/31/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
Albert Hofman had a history of having spontaneous mystical experiences, prior to the supposed accident. Furthermore, even a low dose of LSD lasts far longer then 2 hours, which is what was described in that experience.




That's a bunch of fucking nonsense, and in my opinion it shows just how narrow minded David Nichols is. As Nichols says, Hofmann has, when speaking about LSD, brought up experiencing great awareness when being in nature as a kid. He said at least some of his LSD trips were highly reminiscent of such experiences. For David Nichols to interpret this commentary as conveying that of a full on "mystical experience" is an indication of his scientific simple mindedness. He's seriously overestimating what Hofmann was talking about. It's very common for people to say that they felt like a child again after taking LSD and other similar drugs. As for the two hours, here's my view: Hofmann was particularly intelligent and had a very nice, placid upbringing in one of the highest quality countries on the planet. He inadvertently absorbed a very small amount of LSD on that day and it was such a low dose that most people would barely feel it, but Hofmann's body and mind was more receptive to LSD than most people...and such a dose -- that most people wouldn't feel -- produced noticeable effects for about 2 hours. Nichols claims that LSD simply can't last for 2 hours, but I'm alleging that if soemone is sensitive enough they can achieve relatively brief effects from an exceptionally low dose. Indeed, the childhood mystical experiences are a clear indication that he was more sensitive to LSD than most people. Another point I want to make is that Stanislav Grof, in his book LSD: Psychotherapy talks about how psychological resistance can drastically weigh down on the effects of LSD. Hofmann, having not consciously ingested something, may have successfully exerted effort to stop the effects as they grew stronger and he became increasingly uncomfortable. The information I am presenting is far more plausible than what David Nichols is saying. Once again, it's based on Nick sand claim about coating his arm with a solution of LSD (plus DMSO).. I ask, what are the physics of transdermal absorption of drugs? Are all areas of the skin effective for all drugs? The arm has a lot of fat. Could that have messed up the absorption? did the LSD epimerize to iso-LSD? Anyway...


Let's take a look at Hofmann's childhood mystical experiences and compare them to his first time being on LSD:


The Mystical Wonders of Nature
The distant battlefields had little effect on eight-year old Albert. Despite the horrors of war, those years spent with his parents and siblings on Martinsberg were happy ones for him. His primary school teacher was impressed by this attentive and diligent pupil. His love of nature was reinforced by the plants and animals surrounding him. Nothing pleased him more than to wander through the fields and forests, alone or with his pals, and look out over the valley below through which the Limmat river wound its way to Zurich. Albert was a keen observer of the changing seasons, the greening of spring, the long summer days, the withering foliage in fall, and the winter snow that magically blanketed the fields and meadows in white. “Back then, I promised myself that one day I would again live in a countryside like the Jura.”




Albert (l.) on his first bicycle


Like many young children, Albert was interested in philosophical questions. Decades later, he recalled a conversation he’d had on the way to school as a ten-year old with a friend who asked him, “Do you still believe in God? I don’t— not since I found out they’ve been fooling me about the Christ Child [bringing presents] and that St. Nicholas was no one other than my Uncle Fritz.” Albert answered that it was different with God than with the Christ Child and St. Nicholas because only God could have made the world and people.”

Each spring, Albert returned to wander through the forest on Martinsberg. There, he felt free yet secure and forgot all worries. One sunny morning he would remember the rest of his days, his perceptions rose to unexpected dimensions and he experienced a spontaneous mystical vision of the unity of all being that would shape his life ever after. He could vividly recall every detail: “It was these experiences that shaped the main outlines of my world view and convinced me of the existence of a miraculous, powerful, unfathomable reality that was hidden from everyday sight.” He could not recall the year but knew it was on a May morning and the particular place it happened. As he walked through the forest, he began to hear birdsong more clearly, the fresh green of the trees and the sparkling of sun through the leaves seemed more intense. Everything shone with incredibly clear light. He wondered if he hadn’t looked or listened carefully until then or whether, on that particular morning, the springtime forest first revealed itself in actuality. He felt his heart surge and was filled with bliss more profound than at any time before in his life, a sense of affinity with his surroundings, absolute emotional security as part of creation. As these overwhelming impressions slowly ebbed, he regretted their passing. And Albert wasn’t sure if he could report these marvels to grownups since he had never heard them speak of such things.

Later in his youth, this happened several more times—exhilarating experiences of nature, “enchanting” moments that granted him a glimpse behind the veil of the everyday world. He began to reflect upon the nature of the material world and wondered if as an adult he would still be able to have similar experiences and communicate them to others. These experiences prepared him to follow the path that led to his career: “It was unexpected, but hardly fortuitous that, in midlife, my professional activity converged with the visionary intuition of my boyhood.”

How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn’t matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of

---------------

“Last Friday, April 16, 1943, I was forced to interrupt my work in the laboratory in the middle of the afternoon and proceed home, being affected by a remarkable restlessness, combined with a slight dizziness. At home I lay down and sank into a not unpleasant intoxicated-like condition, characterized by an extremely stimulated imagination. In a dreamlike state, with eyes closed (I found the daylight to be unpleasantly glaring), I perceived an uninterrupted stream of fantastic pictures, extraordinary shapes with intense, kaleidoscopic play of colors. After some two hours this condition faded away.” Hofmann had no idea that the experiment with the chemical compound had anything to do with this surprising effect since he was always so careful about keeping a clean workplace, and he was aware of the toxicity of ergot derivatives. However, the next day he thought that “perhaps some of the LSD solution got on my fingertips during recrystallization and a trace of the substance was absorbed into my skin.” He realized at the same time that should his conjecture hold up, this compound had unknown and very strong properties if just a trace could cause such noticeable effects.


Mystic Chemist: The Life of Albert Hofmann and His Discovery of LSD by Dieter Hagenbach & Lucius Werthmüller


Edited by s240779 (01/23/14 04:54 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAopocetx
Writer
Male


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779] * 1
    #19351170 - 12/31/13 01:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

William Pickard wrote an essay about the clandestine production of LSD in which he says it's common for chemists to inadvertently dose themselves. Is the LSD just splashing into their mouths? I don't see any reason he would lie especially because that wasn't the point of his essay. (William Pickard was an underground LSD manufacturer who is in prison right now. The DEA said his bust was the biggest ever but that's probably not true. It was just the biggest one they have seen.)


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlines240779
Male Unread Journal User Gallery
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19351210 - 12/31/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you, Aopocetx. Here's one such report:

It took twenty batches. We should have done it in steps, converted all of the ergotamine to lysergic hydrazide first, then converted all of the hydrazide to pyrazole, and then just had the animation to do at the end, but once we had that first batch of hydrazide, we wanted to lake it all the way through to see if the process was going to work.

That was really a mistake, because then we had a hundred grams of acid, and as careful as we could be it got into the air, or into the glass, we never figured out.
It took two more weeks to do the rest. We were high the whole time. We made two kilos.


Pharmako/Gnosis: Plant Teachers and the Poison Path. Dale Pendell (2010), p. 54


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejellyfish


Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 7,457
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
    #19351272 - 12/31/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If LSD is impure then it must consist of more than just LSD. No one can tell you it's safe. Look up some reactions and see what ingredients are used to make LSD. If a purification step is not performed, some reactants, catalysts etc could remain in the product. Those likely have researched health effects and they are likely not good for you.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlines240779
Male Unread Journal User Gallery
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: jellyfish]
    #19351293 - 12/31/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup:

User D.M.T. is being too presumptuous and is assuming that everything he's seen in the DEA's Microgram reports encompass the full scale of analyses of clandestine LSD.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineD.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant
Female

Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Into The Woods]
    #19351307 - 12/31/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

ok story time since that seems to be the thang around here

I dont know if thumbprints are real however I do know for a fact the ppl I knew in the 90s that laid crystal sure never took a thumbprint to get the chance to buy crystal. they just happened to be in the right place at the right time and met the right people through selling other drugs in bulk quantity. (marijuana, MDMA, ketamine, etc.)at that point in time, sheets were being laid on a show-by-show basis. usually a ten pack or more per show - different designs for every 900 hit sheet, that way u could fool ppl into thinking one design was better than the other and harder to trace exactly where it came from when teres so many designs (500 hit sheets if they measure 1cmx1cm) the ppl laying blotters were nothing more than pawns for bigger drug dealers - the guys with crystal would sell these tiny vials for $7 to 14 grand. as long as u had the cash and knew the guy it didnt matter. whoever laid the blotters then fronted the blotters to smaller suppliers who sold by the sheet, who sold to the 'street level' dealer. the fronted guys would pay them each Grateful Dead show until they eventually ripped them off and pocketed the money. then the guys laying blotter would shrug it off, threaten to kill them if they ever saw them again, and find new people to sell their doses. because I never ripped them off I still buy L off one of the guys to this day, but now only by the sheet as they've taken a serious reduction in size. just enough to fund their habit. they dont lay them now they just get whatever they find - tends to come from Canada or Europe lately.

they claimed to be 'family' and that all their L was 'family fluff'. to this day they still claim they're family but if you ask me it was just a marketing gimmick because by 2001 (a  year after Pickard's bust approx.) they ran out of material and disappeared from being sizeable dealers. Couple that with the fact they said they got their crystal from Colorado (where it turns out Pickard sent his product from) it must have been Pickard's L despite whatever they said about hippies running the show. Either ChinaCat or the people I knew were lying about whoever the family was as ChinaCat claims Pickard was not family, OR the family simply doesn't exist (most likely as I know from traveling the world I came across blotter on every continent that was the same stuff)

There's absolutely no way the guys I knew had ever once seen an NMR for the crystal they were laying, they knew nothing about the chemistry behind LSD. they were just drug dealers. They knew this: you empty the vial and make a solution and dip blotter in it, done. then make shit up based on how strong it tunred out. their suppliers were using gram scales so it wasn't an even gram ever in those vials either. so the dosage varied literally every batch.

The fact is, they were several people down the chain from the chemists before the L ever reached their hands and had no idea where there L was coming from so they just made up a bunch of shit to market their blotters against the competition's. they had no idea the 'purity', they had no idea the strength of their blotter, they just knew it didn't matter because it would sell. :shrug:

that's the 90s how I remember it


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineD.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant
Female

Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
    #19351335 - 12/31/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:


User D.M.T. is being too presumptuous and is assuming that everything he's seen in the DEA's Microgram reports encompass the full scale of analyses of clandestine LSD.




I sure am not. Clandestine LSD synth requires column chromotagraphy. show me a synth without it and you will see they're only based on theory and will probably destroy the end product (polymerisation, epimerisation, inversion, etc.)

iso-LSD is the only remaining impurity every synth clandestine or not because in the end you're either making LSD or not, there's no corners to skip, this isn't a simple DMT or mescaline extraction. It's serious chemistry and anyone who says otherwise is uninformed of the subject. Anything else that would appear could only be so in a very minute percentage - meaning the difference in needlepoint and white fluff would be not even 5 micrograms. If you expect an impurity to be active at that dose and only be active with LSD in its presence you better provide some evidence because conventional theory disagrees.

so if crystal quality only matters at thumbprint dose why even say it matters? 99.99% of LSD users aren't taking thumbprints. that's even less significant than any impurity itself.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlines240779
Male Unread Journal User Gallery
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
    #19351354 - 12/31/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
There's absolutely no way the guys I knew had ever once seen an NMR for the crystal they were laying, they knew nothing about the chemistry behind LSD.




As indicated by chinacat in LSD-Crystal to Blotter, they went by color. As you said, differnt colors does not necessarily mean psychoactive impurities, but if you look at chinacat's post, the only grade that seemed to absolutely harbor psychoactive impurities was black/champagne. So, your implication that different colors could be mere leftover pigments can in fact be supported using chinacat's literature. He doesn't establish a difference between needlepoint and any of the other grades, with the exception of champagne.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
    #19351356 - 12/31/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's far from nonsense; it's based on the decades of work that Dr. Nichols has done. Calling him closedminded is a disservice to a man that has done more to further the studies of LSD, and psychedelics in general, than most people in the world.

I also have a personal anecdote of transdermal LSD absorption, and it's ineffectiveness. Years ago there was an accident with liquid that led to a half vial being smeared on my face. The liquid in question was fluff crystal broken down to 100mcg per drop. Having that liquid smeared on my face had no effect whatsoever. Had I eaten that amount I would've been out of my gourd.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlines240779
Male Unread Journal User Gallery
Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Dark_Star]
    #19351381 - 12/31/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
I also have a personal anecdote of transdermal LSD absorption, and it's ineffectiveness. Years ago there was an accident with liquid that led to a half vial being smeared on my face. The liquid in question was fluff crystal broken down to 100mcg per drop. Having that liquid smeared on my face had no effect whatsoever. Had I eaten that amount I would've been out of my gourd.




Then I can only asume it's a bioavailability issue. Probably depends on what part of the skin it gets on. Hands, which was the case with Hofmann and chinacat, lots of blood vessels and not nearly as much fat as the arm (Nick Sands) or the face (you).


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWebster10
Up like Trump
Male

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
Loc: Strawberry Fields Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
    #19352378 - 12/31/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

DMT, all you're doing is making assumptions about past LSD distribution that you have no basis for. You may know about the chemistry aspect of the production of LSD, but not everything can be explained with science (which you would know if you've ever taken LSD :wink: ). Give me one GOOD reason why ChinaCat72 would waste hours of his life, lieing about LSD and his role in the distribution of it on a forum where maybe 200 people would see it. You're logic is asenine and you're just in general stubborn. The definition of dumb is "the unwillingless to learn" so, by definition, you are indeed, dumb. :smile:


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTopPmz
<No Title>
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/13/13
Posts: 2,615
Loc: FL Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
    #19352501 - 12/31/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

In fairness, DMT's argument is based on HIS personal experience, and yours is based on a former member's experience.


--------------------
"Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineWebster10
Up like Trump
Male

Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
Loc: Strawberry Fields Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: TopPmz]
    #19352569 - 12/31/13 08:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

TopPmz said:
In fairness, DMT's argument is based on HIS personal experience, and yours is based on a former member's experience.



Are you impying that DMT has sysnthesized LSD? I would assume he hasn't. I disagree with you're statement that he is just talking from personal experience. He is trying to tell me that purity in LSD crystal doesn't matter when determining body load whilst making false assumptions about past LSD distribution. As anyone who has ever tripped knows, science cannot explain everything. DMT should take a multi milligram dose of champagne crystal and needlepoint crystal and tell me there is no difference in body load. Chinacat72 has already done this, and he says that needlepoint LSD feels clean with no body load while champagne LSD made him think he had ergot poisoning. Case closed. If he doesn't accept this, I don't know what his criteria for evidence is, but obviously it is unrealistic, especially when talking about an illegal, mostly unresearched chemical.


--------------------
:leaf: :usa:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Weed Crystals ShroomInhaler 5,240 11 03/16/04 05:31 PM
by browndustin
* THC Crystals
( 1 2 3 all )
Just a Punk 19,301 52 07/10/13 01:18 AM
by Jimmyhunter1000
* Getting High on Krystle
( 1 2 3 all )
Sacred Haze 4,965 54 10/11/11 11:45 AM
by VegasPole
* First trip - crystals on my shrooms? sleepy 5,872 16 12/20/06 10:56 AM
by sleepy
* washing hair/dust particles from dmt crystals..? ninetynine 2,099 4 01/28/05 06:10 PM
by dblaney
* Syrian rue crystal extract results and commentary poke smot! 5,937 6 02/18/04 09:00 AM
by Seuss
* me need dmt crystals emex 3,853 11 07/28/02 12:10 PM
by DreaMaTrix
* "the crystal method"-TriP sevenleaf 1,315 6 04/14/04 07:48 PM
by 4369875

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: psilocybinjunkie, Rose, mushboy, LogicaL Chaos, Northerner, bodhisatta
4,417 topic views. 4 members, 64 guests and 11 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.027 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 14 queries.