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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
#19349248 - 12/30/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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When I stop becoming an observer I am one with everything :-)
happened a few handful times on shrooms/LSD
first morph into the furniture, then one with everything that ever was, then unconscious
I guess I see what you mean now, maybe you werent kidding hehe
damn I think you just blew my mind
if it hadnt already been blown, but I had forgotten I had blown it , so long since I tripped last ;-)
btw I like shamanism too, still a beginner though I learn from sitting in nature most days
I believe most illnesses start in the soul, that is my reason for learning shamanism initially to cure my own problems/health issues, but then I could quickly see that we are all the same...
a shaman knows others because he knows himself
the problems that other people face is often the same problems as the problems the shaman had to face in himself
Edited by lessismore (12/30/13 11:45 PM)
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19349359 - 12/31/13 12:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I like to just observe in reality too :-)
can learn more than from tripping from that sometimes
a lot can be noticed sometimes
I think buddhism must say something about this too, I like buddhism
observe when I walk, when I eat, when I sit in nature, before I meditate etc. everything around me can teach me
also I think your buddhist joke was epic, "make me one with everything" ;-) I believe that when I die I become one with everything, but I dont cease after that I believe maybe in this form
I believe in an underlying theme to most religions, it was just your way of writing that got on my nerves a bit... when I trip I learn what I must know, I dont expect anything same when I meditate, no expectations, just accept
night :-)
Edited by lessismore (12/31/13 12:23 AM)
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Nihon_Hyperspace
既視感


Registered: 03/29/13
Posts: 142
Last seen: 9 years, 13 days
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
#19349636 - 12/31/13 02:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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A message to all agnostics:
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
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Starskii
Stranger

Registered: 11/13/13
Posts: 36
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19349722 - 12/31/13 02:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wouldn't really designate myself as a pure atheist. Like I said in my original post I believe there are some things science hasn't answered yet, but I do believe that the big bang happened and that evolution occurred and is still occurring.
Actually while I was tripping it made me quite proud to think of evolution because it leads to the general conclusion that we are all derivatives of one larger organism that we could designate as "life" or Earth life. Think about the journey, think about how unlikely it is that we survived 5 extinction events and still evolved in such a way that provoked literature and therefor abstract thinking. Imagine how wonderful-terrific-extraordinary-beautiful or just plain awesome it is that we got to a point to where we are right now. Sitting in a room, a monkey-sitting in a room that his race created years before, taking a compound that provokes out-of-the-box thinking, and using our once primitive instinctive minds to answer a massive question introspectively. A question that I believe is the reason we all take LSD time-to-time: what the fuck are we doing here? The answer I have stumbled upon all so humbly in my meditative state is that we are here to do absolutely nothing but to absorb and question. But I guess that answer is really just a mirror of whom we aspire to be; what role we wish to play in this drama that we call life.
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Starskii
Stranger

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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Starskii]
#19349728 - 12/31/13 02:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Also, Atheism can be both a religion or an ideology depending on what the individual treats it as. I used the word ideology as a synonym for beliefs. I felt the two could be used interchangeably and I apologize for the confusion.
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flipcode
FullRetard



Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 44
Loc: D.C. burbs
Last seen: 10 years, 2 days
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Quote:
Nihon_Hyperspace said: A message to all agnostics:
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Funny, My Harold Camping following, doomsday preaching father said the same thing a few times..
I'm not sure what you refer to as the "cake" but it must be related to your beliefs--so...
I'll speak entirely for myself as an Agnostic here; It's not that I do/don't discredit any Theist or BigBang theory--I find a lot of insight and interest in them both. It really comes down to; how could I trust a man-written message that's been changed and translated many many times. Also--what good is picking one side doing? I think that I did realize on L that depending on where I was born, who my parents were, what my government/dictatorship told me would change what I believed (to a powerful degree). I looked at religion and thought--what good does it really do? I see it cause wars, cause separation and it's a major enabler of greed and ego. If there is a creator--he/she/whatever is probably laughing his balls off that we use religion in such a opportunistic, violent, judgmental, distorted way. In terms of having cake--I'd rather face "whatever" humble, as a good person with no reward in mind other than seeing fellow man happy and safe--than as a person that stepped on others to assure my destiny. I think that I'd also like to reincarnate as a bird, walking on a cloud would be cool, absolute end, peace and darkness would be nice, I guess that I could even find a bright side of fire if resulting. My main thing is feeding and improving the actions of my now. How can I help those I interact with throughout the day? I'm guessing that telling them what they believe is wrong, or that they are going to hell does not fit.
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Edited by flipcode (12/31/13 04:41 AM)
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godisamushroom
Stranger



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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: flipcode]
#19349879 - 12/31/13 05:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I wouldn't be too quick to associate the word spiritual with religion.
The "Spirit" was thought to be the essence of miracle which allows consciousness. What ever "thing" inside of us and other living things that allows us to feel, act, and sense our external and internal stimuli.
With that out of the way, I'd like to say the "Spirituality" of tripping is letting parts of your mind become exposed to other parts of your mind that normally don't communicate. This allows thoughts like you've never had before, and which you can genuinely learn from.
My hypothesis, is that shrooms can't literally put thoughts into your mind. They can only manipulate what is already in your brain so every thought that you think, every complex geometric visual you see, are all products of your own brain's creation that you've never experienced before.
It just so happens that these thoughts tend to be around things that seem to be in the "bigger picture". The universe, the eternal nature of time, the rationalization that life isn't about individuals, but rather the success or failure of the species' as a whole
The closest thing to religious that I've had with shrooms would either be perhaps the feeling of unification of all things. Feeling one with all other beings. Or feeling like I'm in the presence of an omniscient being. Sometimes I like to think the omniscient being I'm sensing is no more than my unconscious mind communicating with my conscious mind
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,761
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19349917 - 12/31/13 05:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Nah, it's hard to explain, it's very real, and it's just what I'm researching part time. I've posted about it occasionally. 
If you understand the whole observer effect intimately, try to determine when you yourself stop becoming an observer while tripping. That's when the superposition state builds. It's exactly the same as Buddhist enlightenment, more exactly, the "great function" described in The Blue Cliff Record, a collection of Zen koans and commentary. You'll find the same sort of description in certain other key religious texts, they all seem to stem from the same original experience, which maps directly to a human superposed state. ... ... ... ... 
PS
I like the term superposition state, and there is certainly a correlation between observer attitude practice (meditation) and the occasional psychedelic epiphany. (religious experience)
I don't think Quantum Mechanics ties into the elusive experience except as a thought trigger for something that could be a source of potential insight (i.e. a mental idea layer with a favorable form).
there is something alchemical or scientific about the meditative approach - and similarly about the shamanic approach with ritual preparation of the psychonaut, but the success is occasional.
there are usually a few more things to align, but superposition, and superimposition, are important layering concepts: when any image in mind is suspended and sustained (as in meditation) something shifts and different alignments occur.
when psychedelic drugs are taken, images in mind tend to persist (similar to meditative suspension). the rest is what a person brings to the table. there is never any guarantee but if the layers come together favorably, a stack of mental contents like a standing wave of complex feedback will occur that is effortless, self sustaining, and affirmatively cosmic. it is not permanent it is not enlightenment per say, more like samadhi. but it is such a gift, that many seek it and take it for confirmation of being chosen to bring the light to their people. and that 'hebrephrenic' complex is certainly a religious type of flaw in the whole thing.
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flipcode
FullRetard



Registered: 12/22/13
Posts: 44
Loc: D.C. burbs
Last seen: 10 years, 2 days
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I think that the last two posts; by godisamushroom and redgreenvines answer the OP best. Many of us - (including myself) got off topic by bringing religion into the discussion.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Quote:
godisamushroom said: I wouldn't be too quick to associate the word spiritual with religion.
The "Spirit" was thought to be the essence of miracle which allows consciousness. What ever "thing" inside of us and other living things that allows us to feel, act, and sense our external and internal stimuli.
With that out of the way, I'd like to say the "Spirituality" of tripping is letting parts of your mind become exposed to other parts of your mind that normally don't communicate. This allows thoughts like you've never had before, and which you can genuinely learn from.
My hypothesis, is that shrooms can't literally put thoughts into your mind. They can only manipulate what is already in your brain so every thought that you think, every complex geometric visual you see, are all products of your own brain's creation that you've never experienced before.
It just so happens that these thoughts tend to be around things that seem to be in the "bigger picture". The universe, the eternal nature of time, the rationalization that life isn't about individuals, but rather the success or failure of the species' as a whole
The closest thing to religious that I've had with shrooms would either be perhaps the feeling of unification of all things. Feeling one with all other beings. Or feeling like I'm in the presence of an omniscient being. Sometimes I like to think the omniscient being I'm sensing is no more than my unconscious mind communicating with my conscious mind
I like buddhism, mind is the universe
so I am a fraction of the universe looking back at itself, I can never know it all
but I can hope to become one with it all :-)
oneness with all other beings, feeling oneness in everything I see, seeing that I am everything I see that was kinda spiritual to me, just like you mention
or maybe more like buddhism
you could say it was all in the mind too, that we will never know but it seems my consciousness has been the same my whole life, and I seem to have the same consciousness to a large degree that my parents had, even though Ive never talked to my father until recently he was a buddhist all his life, he knows everything I know, his words are my words met many people who I shared consciousness with to a large degree too, they knew everything I knew oneness, I am not my thoughts but the controller of own thoughts etc. usually they meditated too
Edited by lessismore (12/31/13 07:41 AM)
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19350243 - 12/31/13 08:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aopocetx said:
Quote:
flipcode said: I think that Theism is the word everyone's looking for.
I'm Agnostic and have no side to fight for, or against--it's such a peaceful place. I have Atheist friends that get in fights to prove there is no god--I think they feel just about as strong of the matter as theist believers do--it all kind of rolls off my shoulders like: "entertaining view, that's pretty cool, how many virgins?".
I like Karma and freedom for all others to chose whatever the heck it is they want to believe--as long as it doesn't hurt others.
Peace!
Exactly! I believe in God greatly but I would never try to argue my position. I can explain why I feel the way I do but I've been in that position and I know that nothing anyone can say would change it.
In the end we're all free to our own unique beliefs.
My theistic beliefs are personal only, but I can share if someone asks me and then I would only argue from own experience, never from science
I believe both science,religions and meditations have their usefulness as a way of life
My view was exactly like flipcodes, I used to be agnostic for many years
Just acceptance, let people believe what they want to believe, or not to believe
In the end I believe we are all the same inside even though we dont seem to remember ;-)
Tripping seems to show me the illusions of my mind often, just like lucid dreaming So I am less able to believe I am this body, that what I see around me is real i.e.
What I do believe is what fits my personal experience, that seems to be the only thing I can trust and then science too but I dont believe I am this material framework that science dictates (one large coincidence), I just believe science explains most things well
Big bang and quantum theory I am not much in favor of, but everyone has their own favorite theories, I dont believe in coincidences
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flipcode
FullRetard



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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
#19350440 - 12/31/13 09:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mio said:
In the end I believe we are all the same inside even though we dont seem to remember ;-)
Not to discredit the rest of your post in any way--I just wanted to encapsulate this segment.
The fact that we all are the same--yet so different when it comes to beliefs, and we have not all magically drawn the same conclusions after our "trips" says something important that connects with a bit of everyone's post's. "Trips" will obviously unlock and re-map some understanding, but it's just as individual and personal as each person that experiences it. While the word "spiritual" is strong and can be adapted to many other beliefs--I can also link it to the feeling of a nice breeze on a hot day, or a moment of silence and sheer connection to my surroundings in nature.
OP:"What makes tripping spiritual?" I would say that our ability to step outside of normalcy to notice or focus attention on things we commonly overlook might answer this for some. I never got many visuals of walls breathing, etc. but many claim to see some pretty wild stuff. I guess that experience could answer it for others.
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Aopocetx
Writer



Registered: 03/20/06
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: flipcode]
#19350717 - 12/31/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What makes tripping spiritual? When you feel the warm blood rushing through your veins and a tear wells in your eye because of the awe from the sheer beauty of nature and you become thankful to be alive.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19350848 - 12/31/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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what you give is what is returned
any spiritual trippers/gurus will know what that means it means you must earn your own spirituality continuously
spirituality is a choice, and tripping isnt needed for it hard work meditating learn from mistakes doing ones best to serve others (serve god by serving the god in all)
that is equally possible after a trip or after a meditation and my belief
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VaultKnowledge
Mind-manifestor

Registered: 12/28/13
Posts: 20
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19350865 - 12/31/13 11:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aopocetx said: What makes tripping spiritual? When you feel the warm blood rushing through your veins and a tear wells in your eye because of the awe from the sheer beauty of nature and you become thankful to be alive.
Before I did psychedelics, I would have said you're being overly dramatic. But now, I think you've beautifully answered the question.
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MindDrips
Telephasic Workshop



Registered: 09/10/13
Posts: 677
Loc: USA
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19351040 - 12/31/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aopocetx said: What makes tripping spiritual? When you feel the warm blood rushing through your veins and a tear wells in your eye because of the awe from the sheer beauty of nature and you become thankful to be alive.
 Yes.
-------------------- "Pebbles and marbles like things on my mind, Seem to get lost and harder to find. When I am alone I am inclined, If I find a pebble in sand, To think that it fell from my hand..."

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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
#19351149 - 12/31/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
a lot can be noticed sometimes
Like Yogi Berra said, "You can observe a lot just by watching." 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Quote:
I like the term superposition state, and there is certainly a correlation between observer attitude practice (meditation) and the occasional psychedelic epiphany. (religious experience)
I don't think Quantum Mechanics ties into the elusive experience except as a thought trigger for something that could be a source of potential insight (i.e. a mental idea layer with a favorable form).
there is something alchemical or scientific about the meditative approach - and similarly about the shamanic approach with ritual preparation of the psychonaut, but the success is occasional.
there are usually a few more things to align, but superposition, and superimposition, are important layering concepts: when any image in mind is suspended and sustained (as in meditation) something shifts and different alignments occur.
when psychedelic drugs are taken, images in mind tend to persist (similar to meditative suspension). the rest is what a person brings to the table. there is never any guarantee but if the layers come together favorably, a stack of mental contents like a standing wave of complex feedback will occur that is effortless, self sustaining, and affirmatively cosmic. it is not permanent it is not enlightenment per say, more like samadhi. but it is such a gift, that many seek it and take it for confirmation of being chosen to bring the light to their people. and that 'hebrephrenic' complex is certainly a religious type of flaw in the whole thing.
Hmm. I've read your take on tripping before obviously, and IME the persistence of thoughts isn't the major factor. If that were so one would never arrive at a clear state beyond thought, but it happens reliably for me, as well as manifestations of reality that are much harder to explain. But quantum mechanics does explain what occurs for a brain that enters a superposition state, although it doesn't do much at present to explain how this is possible.
However in discussing these phenomena (and some I've not posted about here, 'cause nobody would ever believe it) with another physicist recently we had a lot of congruent thought about both how to explain and how to test it (or to prove it basically) and since that was the course I was following already (physics without replication is philosophy ) I've not changed my mind at all based on real experiential evidence I've already acquired about the phenomena involved.
Nothing is permanent, we all just work with the flow. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Aopocetx
Writer



Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: I like the term superposition state, and there is certainly a correlation between observer attitude practice (meditation) and the occasional psychedelic epiphany. (religious experience)
I don't think Quantum Mechanics ties into the elusive experience except as a thought trigger for something that could be a source of potential insight (i.e. a mental idea layer with a favorable form).
there is something alchemical or scientific about the meditative approach - and similarly about the shamanic approach with ritual preparation of the psychonaut, but the success is occasional.
there are usually a few more things to align, but superposition, and superimposition, are important layering concepts: when any image in mind is suspended and sustained (as in meditation) something shifts and different alignments occur.
when psychedelic drugs are taken, images in mind tend to persist (similar to meditative suspension). the rest is what a person brings to the table. there is never any guarantee but if the layers come together favorably, a stack of mental contents like a standing wave of complex feedback will occur that is effortless, self sustaining, and affirmatively cosmic. it is not permanent it is not enlightenment per say, more like samadhi. but it is such a gift, that many seek it and take it for confirmation of being chosen to bring the light to their people. and that 'hebrephrenic' complex is certainly a religious type of flaw in the whole thing.
I like the way you think. You showed me an idea I've never thought about and I've thought about psychedelics a lot. I would love to hear more if you want to point me in the direction of another post or something.
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