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Offlinejraad
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? *DELETED* [Re: Starskii]
    #19346433 - 12/30/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by jraad

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“You have to take seriously the notion that understanding the universe is your responsibility, because the only understanding of the universe that will be useful to you is your own understanding.”  - Terence Mckenna


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: jraad]
    #19346440 - 12/30/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What's religion?


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Offlinejraad
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? *DELETED* [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19346498 - 12/30/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by jraad

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--------------------
“You have to take seriously the notion that understanding the universe is your responsibility, because the only understanding of the universe that will be useful to you is your own understanding.”  - Terence Mckenna


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: jraad]
    #19346521 - 12/30/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jraad said:
Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
What's religion?




The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. ?




It was meant as a rhetorical question aimed at highlighting the fact that religion is viewed as many different things by many different people. You can call it anything you want; spirituality, religion, whatever. I think religion doesn't necessarily have to do with believing in a god or gods, but just in something.

And if that something is the lack of something, so be it.


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Offlinejraad
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? *DELETED* [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19346575 - 12/30/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by jraad

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--------------------
“You have to take seriously the notion that understanding the universe is your responsibility, because the only understanding of the universe that will be useful to you is your own understanding.”  - Terence Mckenna


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InvisibleMindDrips
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19346613 - 12/30/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
Quote:

jraad said:
Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
What's religion?




The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. ?




It was meant as a rhetorical question aimed at highlighting the fact that religion is viewed as many different things by many different people. You can call it anything you want; spirituality, religion, whatever. I think religion doesn't necessarily have to do with believing in a god or gods, but just in something.

And if that something is the lack of something, so be it.




:jackiechanofapproval:

My personal view in relation to the OP is that for me, the simple notion that there is more out there than what we think we know makes psychedelic experience spiritual for me. There is always a sense of wonder, and in psychedelic experience I have seen and contemplated the complexity of the universe around us.
Just the way that substances like marijuana, LSD, psilocybin, and mescaline can alter one's perception so much can show us that human experience is very relative to our perception of what we call "Reality".

There is a lot that we do not understand, and so much more out there-and within ourselves, as well. Whether the force that connects us all is a god, a network of gods, or a lattice of condensed cosmic energy in a three-dimensional form of physical consciousness, the act of pondering any of these things is, in itself, spiritual.


--------------------
"Pebbles and marbles like things on my mind,
Seem to get lost and harder to find.
When I am alone I am inclined,
If I find a pebble in sand,
To think that it fell from my hand..."



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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: jraad]
    #19346798 - 12/30/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

problematic distinctions




:nojustno:  I hate those. :lol:

:peace:PS


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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19346835 - 12/30/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
It was meant as a rhetorical question aimed at highlighting the fact that religion is viewed as many different things by many different people. You can call it anything you want; spirituality, religion, whatever. I think religion doesn't necessarily have to do with believing in a god or gods, but just in something.

And if that something is the lack of something, so be it.




Atheism seems more like a lack of belief to me...


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19346839 - 12/30/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Aopocetx said:
Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
It was meant as a rhetorical question aimed at highlighting the fact that religion is viewed as many different things by many different people. You can call it anything you want; spirituality, religion, whatever. I think religion doesn't necessarily have to do with believing in a god or gods, but just in something.

And if that something is the lack of something, so be it.




Atheism seems more like a lack of belief to me...




A lack of belief in god, but not in something else.

I don't think I believe in god. But I believe there is something that we don't have the power to explain yet, or maybe ever will.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19347079 - 12/30/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

I wouldn't say those are bs ideas without relevance at all, in fact some of the more rewarding revelations. Obviously the language is a constant limiting factor which is why experience itself is necessary, but fuck we're human. We communicate with our own words which  accounts for more than a majority of our disharmony. Doesn't mean we don't feel the deeper meaning. "God" is just the label I give to talk about the labeless existence for which I couldn't otherwise communicate




Fair enough, but that's not the way they're usually used.  Language isn't logic, and language isn't necessary for thought.  Going beyond language opens up levels of reality that are otherwise missed because they can't be described.  Description is not a requirement.  The experience is its own validation, communicating it is merely a bonus, IF you succeed. 

That's why  Shakyamuni (the Buddha) merely held up a flower during his most profound lecture on nonduality.  Almost nobody ever "gets" it.  But hey, that's just the way it is, and it can't be understood with dualistic thought. :shrug:

:peace:PS




No I totally agree. Language is simply for communication purposes. I was watching a lecture by moogi and one of the points he made was that none of his speech is ever touching the value of its meaning. He's simply pointing at it from as many angles as possible so as to resonate with as many people as possible, because one of those words might click with a different persons understanding. But of course at the base of reality it's ambiguous


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19347425 - 12/30/13 05:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

Starskii said:
Tom Leary was an atheist and then he tripped a fuck-ton and turned into a religious guy apparently. But, in my experiences I am a non-religious and my trips seem to reinforce my atheist ideology on the Universe, although I have been opened up to the idea that the Universe itself is a God in a way. But at the same time, we are all the Universe because we exist within it's confines. I just wanted to have a serious conversation on your spiritual experiences on L and if you think they were caused by your general set or if they were genuinely a spiritual experience?




It doesn't really matter what you believe or don't believe if you trip heavily enough - all of it gets washed away and replaced with experiential truth, not fiction.  It might make you seem religious to seem people but that's only because they are merely hungry ghosts, as Buddhism says...

The BS ideas that come up while tripping - "this is that", "god is the universe", "i am god" - are just BS ideas with no relevance, they're very similar to schizophrenic thinking and lead nowhere useful.  The experience itself is far more powerful than any labels you can possibly apply to it, and living outside of label-land is a vast improvement.

But for me this isn't due to lucy, just to mushrooms. :lol:

:peace:PS




I wouldn't say those are bs ideas without relevance at all, in fact some of the more rewarding revelations. Obviously the language is a constant limiting factor which is why experience itself is necessary, but fuck we're human. We communicate with our own words which  accounts for more than a majority of our disharmony. Doesn't mean we don't feel the deeper meaning. "God" is just the label I give to talk about the labeless existence for which I couldn't otherwise communicate




Same
I am god, you are too means I am undefined to me
God is all there is to me

If I am the only god they lock me up
But if you are god too it is okay
Then it isnt the ego having taken over my brain ;-)
We are all gods, enjoy
Gods in term of our reality
- ram dass


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
    #19347470 - 12/30/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, and this is so obvious when tripping.  The hard part is making it obvious all the time. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


--------------------

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Offlineflipcode
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19347530 - 12/30/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think that Theism is the word everyone's looking for.

I'm Agnostic and have no side to fight for, or against--it's such a peaceful place. I have Atheist friends that get in fights to prove there is no god--I think they feel just about as strong of the matter as theist believers do--it all kind of rolls off my shoulders like: "entertaining view, that's pretty cool, how many virgins?".

I like Karma and freedom for all others to chose whatever the heck it is they want to believe--as long as it doesn't hurt others.

Peace!


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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: flipcode]
    #19347981 - 12/30/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

flipcode said:
I think that Theism is the word everyone's looking for.

I'm Agnostic and have no side to fight for, or against--it's such a peaceful place. I have Atheist friends that get in fights to prove there is no god--I think they feel just about as strong of the matter as theist believers do--it all kind of rolls off my shoulders like: "entertaining view, that's pretty cool, how many virgins?".

I like Karma and freedom for all others to chose whatever the heck it is they want to believe--as long as it doesn't hurt others.

Peace!




Exactly! I believe in God greatly but I would never try to argue my position. I can explain why I feel the way I do but I've been in that position and I know that nothing anyone can say would change it.

In the end we're all free to our own unique beliefs.


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19348372 - 12/30/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Yeah, and this is so obvious when tripping.  The hard part is making it obvious all the time. :thumbup:

:peace:PS




Look for it in your hobbies because it is everywhere. It is the logic of existence after all. For me, I'm studying biochem so I see it in that quite easily every day. Though others you have to be a bit more abstract to see. But once you do, you don't unsee


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19348545 - 12/30/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Actually, it's a large part of my research into quantum physics and the realization of superposition states, which is being conducted with the aid of mushrooms for the past few years.  And it's a huge development in a very promising direction. :thumbup:

But it integrates well with Buddhist mind practice, and explains most if not all of the known religions. 

Uhm, just all in a day's work, ya know. :lol:

:peace:PS


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19349000 - 12/30/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

quantum mechanics seems to say that I am myself a matrix transforming what I observe

observable A, state |psi>, I am the observer, I get the eigenvalue a by observing/collapsing your state, so I must myself be a matrix

a hermitian matrix :-)

I actually took a QM course once, not in my mind, took 8 weeks + 8 weeks linear algebra preps
feel free to disprove, I might be wrong :-)

superposition I would like to hear from you, I find it not logical with superposition states in nature
but logical with everything being a wave in nature / spread out in the universe

but you seem to be kidding heh, or else you seem to come off as arrogant sometimes, maybe I am misinterpreting...

there is nothing wrong with being interested in math/physics when tripping, as long as you understand you will never know it all, but having a curious mind can be beneficial if you fit to experience

neither is there any illegal thoughts to have, any thought is allowed
but the above QM thought is not a tripping thought, it is a thought after tripping


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
    #19349106 - 12/30/13 11:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Nah, it's hard to explain, it's very real, and it's just what I'm researching part time. I've posted about it occasionally. :thumbup:

If you understand the whole observer effect intimately, try to determine when you yourself stop becoming an observer while tripping.  That's when the superposition state builds.  It's exactly the same as Buddhist enlightenment, more exactly, the "great function" described in The Blue Cliff Record, a collection of Zen koans and commentary.  You'll find the same sort of description in certain other key religious texts, they all seem to stem from the same original experience, which maps directly to a human superposed state.

And if you understand the physics involved, there's no particular a priori limitation on the extent of a superposition state.  Reference Roger Penrose for some of the earliest speculation regarding human mediated quantum superposition.  Superposition for objects the size of a bumblebee has been achieved experimentally, well into the "macro" realm.

Quote:

quantum mechanics seems to say that I am myself a matrix transforming what I observe




Well, not really SFAIK - you don't need to refer to the result to obtain the source, since simpler systems than you (think two-slit experiment) have the ability to collapse wave functions.  QM (in one popular interpretation) says that IF you are an observer you collapse wave fields.  But observers can be strictly mechanical as well, provided they have the ability to detect a particular sort of effect.  Humans are fairly simple biomechanical systems, and theoretically you can build a functional equivalent - but an ordinary AI will probably do quite well, once we have those. 

I suspect that humans evolved this ability to directly (preferentially) collapse wave functions at some point in the distant evolutionary past - because we still retain the ability to operate without that collapse occurring.  That's what meditation accomplishes, and that's what psychedelic drugs invoke, and that's why tripping seems both so familiar and so extremely odd at the same time.  It's how we traverse timelines while under the influence, and access otherwise hidden information, and a whole host of other things as well.

Experiential QM as revealed through tripping is an extremely deep subject, possibly the deepest there is or can be.  IME it doesn't always follow available math in its operation, which merely says available math is inadequate to explicate it. That however shouldn't stop anybody from doing their own research, something that I'd like to encourage, since at present there's approximately nobody working on this. :lol: 

My limited research so far accords with QM theory as to state collapse triggers, and I'm getting ready to do a much longer round of it come this summer - enough replication to be able to assign some solid probabilities to the findings. But that's only the beginning. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Edited by PrimalSoup (12/30/13 11:31 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19349157 - 12/30/13 11:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

give me your state and I shall transform it, as I am a matrix? observer=matrix?

quantum mechanics is nuts... but funny
everything is a matrix in QM, even the observer / person making the measurement it seems

also quantum mechanics actually starts to make some sense if tripping

there is a certainty that you can walk through walls (also on first try),
appear on mars tomorrow, or bounce back if you jump off a cliff

interesting / funny theory..

makes some sense if everything I am is a wave, because then I am spread out everywhere in space

I like to discuss this :-)

superposition is one thing that makes no sense to me
but I subscribe to the shared unconsciousness (carl jung), maybe we are all in a superposition state of each others consciousness somehow

of course this last part is all philosophy, but interesting to think about nonetheless


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
    #19349243 - 12/30/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Uhm, I've edited the previous post about 10 times and possibly addressed this. 

But be careful with your matrices, because they're merely one way to describe certain aspects, not the thing itself.  Look to your mind and surroundings as the superposition occurs, you'll know it by phantom observers popping up around you (AKA hallucinations, visual and auditory).  They appear to be traces from alternate states, ghosts as it were.  Just writing about this is freaking me out all over again... :lol:

But it's getting late now, so good night. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


--------------------

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