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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: myc_check1212] * 1
    #19357891 - 01/02/14 10:55 AM (10 years, 29 days ago)

What is that supposed to mean..?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: Confucian]
    #19358672 - 01/02/14 01:53 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Quote:

qman said:
"Currently it has, what, a $2.2 trillion surplus."

You see, that is called a scam. The SS money that has been collected goes into the general expense fund, that money has been already spent.

That "2.2 trillion" is theoretical, it doesn't exist. In fact, last year SS payed out $50 billion more than it collected, that is the first stage of insolvency.

The american public has been scammed about the solvency of SS, it's a lie, and at some point it will come out.

"After 80 years our government has collected trillions more than it has paid out"

I'm sorry, but this is not true. The money has been spent, it's not there. All governments end up being fiscally irresponsible, and the US government is no different, they pissed it away.





Just because we have a national debt doesn't mean that SS having surpluses is untrue. LOL.

There are lots of businesses that have profitable and unprofitable divisions. SS happens to be one of the most successful and profitable divisions of our government. You can't pretend that SS doesn't yield profits to our government just because overall we have deficits.

It's also not just theoretical. Just as an example, say Hyundai Corporation ran a loss in their car division of $1.5 billion. But they had profits of $1.0 billion in their truck division. Overall they had a $0.5 billion loss. I suppose you can pretend that the $1.0 billion profits in the truck division doesn't exist, that it only exists in theory, but that's not how business/government works.

SS has been a very successful program. With a few changes (raise eligibility age, offer buyouts to those that don't need it, raise the taxable income cap, etc.) it will continue to be profitable.



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3729154#3729154

SS has been very profitable for government control freak scum and assorted other bums.  For the taxpayer it has been an unmitigated buttfucking.  Did you know that the government is supposed to serve the people and not vice versa?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19358677 - 01/02/14 01:53 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
What is that supposed to mean..?



It means you are going to have to compete with them.


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Offlineqman
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: Confucian]
    #19358759 - 01/02/14 02:10 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Quote:

qman said:
"Currently it has, what, a $2.2 trillion surplus."

You see, that is called a scam. The SS money that has been collected goes into the general expense fund, that money has been already spent.

That "2.2 trillion" is theoretical, it doesn't exist. In fact, last year SS payed out $50 billion more than it collected, that is the first stage of insolvency.

The american public has been scammed about the solvency of SS, it's a lie, and at some point it will come out.

"After 80 years our government has collected trillions more than it has paid out"

I'm sorry, but this is not true. The money has been spent, it's not there. All governments end up being fiscally irresponsible, and the US government is no different, they pissed it away.





Just because we have a national debt doesn't mean that SS having surpluses is untrue. LOL.

There are lots of businesses that have profitable and unprofitable divisions. SS happens to be one of the most successful and profitable divisions of our government. You can't pretend that SS doesn't yield profits to our government just because overall we have deficits.

It's also not just theoretical. Just as an example, say Hyundai Corporation ran a loss in their car division of $1.5 billion. But they had profits of $1.0 billion in their truck division. Overall they had a $0.5 billion loss. I suppose you can pretend that the $1.0 billion profits in the truck division doesn't exist, that it only exists in theory, but that's not how business/government works.

SS has been a very successful program. With a few changes (raise eligibility age, offer buyouts to those that don't need it, raise the taxable income cap, etc.) it will continue to be profitable.




"Just because we have a national debt doesn't mean that SS having surpluses is untrue."

When did I ever say it was?  There is NO SS surplus, the  future payments for SS are future liabilities, those liabilities will NEVER be made whole. The SS money collected has already been spent.

Where do you think the national debt would be if we didn't spend the SS that was collected for the past 40 years?  Much higher!!

Also, many thought SS would be cash positive until 2017, but guess what?  With over 9 million people collecting SS disability, it made 2012 a net cash flow loss of $50 billion for the program.

With the economy in the dumps, and the baby boomers just starting to retire, this SS program will become a massive negative cash flow program with huge deficits into the 100's of billions of dollar per year.



Edited by qman (01/02/14 02:16 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: qman]
    #19358770 - 01/02/14 02:12 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Well the spending might have been less.


.



.






Oh fuck who am I kidding.  These cocksuckers in government have always been dedicated to fucking the few to pay for votes.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19360153 - 01/02/14 06:43 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
What is that supposed to mean..?



It means you are going to have to compete with them.



Well, according to you, there is an infinite amount of a wealth, so I need not worry.

But since you have made it clear that your understanding of wealth is fundamentally unsound, and you seem to be indicating that your children pose some sort of threat to me- perhaps due to what you appear to see as stellar parental guidance- I'll address your comment at (much) greater length. I generally compete with others when I choose to. I do not concern myself with making more money than other people, my only concern with regard to wealth is that I have enough of it to avoid discomfort created by resource deficit.. I make $1700 a month working 20-25 hours a week, depending on whether or not there was an exam that day, and never find that I have fewer resources than I need in order to be acceptably comfortable.

I chose my career path not in an attempt to guarantee that I would be able to pathologically accumulate unnecessary disproportional of resources, but in an attempt to guarantee for myself a personally satisfying life experience. When I wake up in the morning, I almost invariably look forward to my entire day, rather than the mere portion during which I am capable of expending my excess resources in the pursuit of ephemeral moments of euphoria.

The only competitions I presently find myself engaging involve winning opportunities to publish research in the most assayed journals to which I am capable of contributing. This I do in order to potentially advance collective understanding in the fields of research that interest me, because I find them to be more engaging and important than my own ego and my material possessions.

In spite of your apparent material wealth, zappa, the content of your posts and your user-title give me the impression that you are chronically angry and dissatisfied. Perhaps this is not the case, but the number of individuals who have me in the ignore lists and the number of individuals who have you on their ignore lists speaks to the probably reality that your personality is not as acceptable to the people you interact with as it is to you. I frequently perceive that there are ways in which I could improve my personality; the people I interact with, however, rarely say or do things that indicate dissatisfaction with my personality. In the course of this conversation, despite the fact that we disagree, you have made statements such as

Quote:

No, you go live in a forest.  I don't know you, I don't like you and I might not want to piss on you if you were on fire.  What are you gonna do for me as a member of civilized society?  My guess.  Nothing.




Presently, at least, it feels much more important to me that I
  • Avoid making statements that appear to demonstrate a level of morality surpassed by most dogs and
  • Avoid as much as possible a worldview which assumes the inferior character of others in an apparent effort eliminate any cognitive dissonance in response to being challenged.


than that I make $400,000 a year.

Perhaps I am just fooling myself, zappa. Perhaps I am merely a victim of some extreme psychological delusion, because I am so insecure that I feel I'll never be able to get ahead in what really matters, so I've deluded myself into believing that all sorts of silly that are far more important than having more money than I need. I guess we'll never know who's right.


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19360250 - 01/02/14 07:02 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Bullshit.  The guy making 40M is getting the exact same deal as the guy making 133K.  The benefits are exactly equal.



The guy making 40M does not need social security.




So what?  "From each according to their ability to each according to their needs?"  What a novel concept, Karl.
Quote:

I do not believe that anyone deserves to make that much money anyway, for any reason whatsoever.



It is none of your fucking business.



Yes, it's everyone's business, because wealth a finite resource.




Maybe in an economy where legal tender is backed by,say gold or silver, but not in America. Our legal tender is backed by the full faith of the government, or something like that. So as long as you "got faith, fa-fa-faith", there's no limit.


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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19360315 - 01/02/14 07:16 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
Maybe in an economy where legal tender is backed by,say gold or silver, but not in America. Our legal tender is backed by the full faith of the government, or something like that. So as long as you "got faith, fa-fa-faith", there's no limit.




You make it sound like dollars are worthless and only a religious fanatic would believe in something so obviously fake - because it requires faith to believe in the dollar.

You're wrong. People kill for dollars. Nobody gives a flying fuck about gold or silver compared to the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR.


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: Confucian]
    #19360334 - 01/02/14 07:22 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

I'm making jest at wealth is finite.


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InvisibleConfucian
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19360345 - 01/02/14 07:25 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Oh. :shrug:


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19360362 - 01/02/14 07:29 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
I'm making jest at wealth is finite.


Quote:


"That does not make it infinite. Infinity is an abstraction that really only exists in math. Did you ever take calculus? If something is being created all the time, that means that there is an amount greater than than the amount which previously existed. The original word for money in any language was originally etymologically derived from the most precious resource used by the speakers of that language, in the case of many indoeuropean languages, the first word for money was the word for cattle. There was a set amount of cattle. There was not an infinite amount of cattle. In order to create a  money systems were devised. But this does mean that the wealth itself is infinite. The value of the sum total of the money is equal to the value of the sum total of the resources. Resources are not infinite. Resources can  bemedium for bartering such that an individual need not have amounts of all different kinds of resources, fiatcreated; thus, wealth can grow. Resources cannot, however, be made infinite.


Nope. It's interesting to me that this misconception is so common. Where did you 'learn' it? Even is the universe almost certinlt isn't infinite, lol.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19362417 - 01/03/14 08:26 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
What is that supposed to mean..?



It means you are going to have to compete with them.



Well, according to you, there is an infinite amount of a wealth, so I need not worry.




The chances of you getting much of it are pretty slim
Quote:



But since you have made it clear that your understanding of wealth is fundamentally unsound, and you seem to be indicating that your children pose some sort of threat to me- perhaps due to what you appear to see as stellar parental guidance- I'll address your comment at (much) greater length. I generally compete with others when I choose to. I do not concern myself with making more money than other people, my only concern with regard to wealth is that I have enough of it to avoid discomfort created by resource deficit.. I make $1700 a month working 20-25 hours a week, depending on whether or not there was an exam that day, and never find that I have fewer resources than I need in order to be acceptably comfortable.




Then you are immune to any threat of competition from my children.  You have opted out
Quote:



I chose my career path not in an attempt to guarantee that I would be able to pathologically accumulate unnecessary disproportional of resources, but in an attempt to guarantee for myself a personally satisfying life experience. When I wake up in the morning, I almost invariably look forward to my entire day, rather than the mere portion during which I am capable of expending my excess resources in the pursuit of ephemeral moments of euphoria.




So I take it you are also refusing all government handouts since you don't give a fuck.
Quote:



The only competitions I presently find myself engaging involve winning opportunities to publish research in the most assayed journals to which I am capable of contributing. This I do in order to potentially advance collective understanding in the fields of research that interest me, because I find them to be more engaging and important than my own ego and my material possessions.




I'm thrilled for you.
Quote:



In spite of your apparent material wealth, zappa, the content of your posts and your user-title give me the impression that you are chronically angry and dissatisfied.




That would be false
Quote:

Perhaps this is not the case, but the number of individuals who have me in the ignore lists and the number of individuals who have you on their ignore lists speaks to the probably reality that your personality is not as acceptable to the people you interact with as it is to you.




It is more an indictment of the people who are ignoring me.  You might note that I'm not ignoring anyone.  Not even you.
Quote:

I frequently perceive that there are ways in which I could improve my personality; the people I interact with, however, rarely say or do things that indicate dissatisfaction with my personality. In the course of this conversation, despite the fact that we disagree, you have made statements such as

Quote:

No, you go live in a forest.  I don't know you, I don't like you and I might not want to piss on you if you were on fire.  What are you gonna do for me as a member of civilized society?  My guess.  Nothing.




Presently, at least, it feels much more important to me that I
  • Avoid making statements that appear to demonstrate a level of morality surpassed by most dogs and
  • Avoid as much as possible a worldview which assumes the inferior character of others in an apparent effort eliminate any cognitive dissonance in response to being challenged.


than that I make $400,000 a year.

Perhaps I am just fooling myself, zappa. Perhaps I am merely a victim of some extreme psychological delusion, because I am so insecure that I feel I'll never be able to get ahead in what really matters, so I've deluded myself into believing that all sorts of silly that are far more important than having more money than I need. I guess we'll never know who's right.




I don't give a fuck what you do as long as I do not have to pay for anything related to your life maintenance.  Knock yourself out.  Do what you want.  Get out of my wallet.  I would rather light a cigar with a hundred dollar bill than see it go to some bum fuck who chooses not to support himself.


--------------------


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19362451 - 01/03/14 08:42 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:


So I take it you are also refusing all government handouts since you don't give a fuck.


I'm not sure I know what you mean by "give a fuck". Perhaps try and be a little bit more precise with your language. I said I wasn't interested in havinf excess resources. It doesn't seem to me believe the government is generally in the business of providing them. Perhaps some individuals take advantage of it in order to do so, but it's probably difficult to get wealthy on "handouts".


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19362503 - 01/03/14 09:05 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:


So I take it you are also refusing all government handouts since you don't give a fuck.


I'm not sure I know what you mean by "give a fuck". Perhaps try and be a little bit more precise with your language. I said I wasn't interested in havinf excess resources. It doesn't seem to me believe the government is generally in the business of providing them. Perhaps some individuals take advantage of it in order to do so, but it's probably difficult to get wealthy on "handouts".



Are you taking any handouts at all since you have decided that you do not need to make much money?  You clearly have no interest in getting wealthy.  That's fine.  Do you at least have the self respect to refuse any handouts?  You work half time and don't appear to make enough money to support yourself.  Am I being compelled the point of a gun to buy you shit?  Let me rephrase that so you understand it.  Are you getting government benefits of any kind at all while making zero contribution to the tax base?  Millions of poor people are on medicaid many through no fault of their own.  What is your contribution to the social safety net?  My guess would be cock.  And yet you insist there be one.  That somebody else, not your dilettante self, pays for.  How nice for you.  You demand taxpayers pay for shit but deliberately minimize your contribution to the tax paying public.


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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19362527 - 01/03/14 09:11 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

You work half time and don't appear to make enough money to support yourself.


I work half time because I am in graduate school full time, and I do make enough money to support myself; in fact, I have money left over to save, now that I dont spend any of it on drugs. Houston is much cheaper than New York.

Quote:

What is your contribution to the social safety net?


Do you expect babies to contribute, as well? People have to start somewhere. I will eventually contribute such that I am in the top 15% of taxpayers. Did you make 400k at age 24?

Why are your posts so apparently angry and filled with profanity? What makes it so difficult for you to engage in level-headed discussion? If you make so much money, I don't see why you are so worried about these things, anyway. The most my parents ever made was 200k annually and we always considered our family to be extremely well off and never felt any financial worries at all. And my parents give a lot of money to charity (which as I have recently found out thanks to you is not a tax credit but only an income deduction).


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19362657 - 01/03/14 10:04 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

You work half time and don't appear to make enough money to support yourself.


I work half time because I am in graduate school full time, and I do make enough money to support myself; in fact, I have money left over to save, now that I dont spend any of it on drugs. Houston is much cheaper than New York.




Didn't you say you have chosen not to earn money?  What are you in graduate school for, anyway?
Quote:



Quote:

What is your contribution to the social safety net?


Do you expect babies to contribute, as well? People have to start somewhere. I will eventually contribute such that I am in the top 15% of taxpayers. Did you make 400k at age 24?

Why are your posts so apparently angry and filled with profanity?




I'm a fucking contractor.  That's how we fucking talk. 
Quote:

What makes it so difficult for you to engage in level-headed discussion?




I think I do. 
Quote:

If you make so much money, I don't see why you are so worried about these things, anyway.




I want it to go where I want it to go, not to random shitbag breeders and opt out bums.
Quote:

The most my parents ever made was 200k annually and we always considered our family to be extremely well off and never felt any financial worries at all.




I doubt you would have ever known about them anyway but they cut you off at the BA level, right?  We haven't done that.
Quote:

And my parents give a lot of money to charity (which as I have recently found out thanks to you is not a tax credit but only an income deduction).




Don't you wish they had funded your education fully rather than give money to charities most of which spend more on fund raising than in actually doing anything?


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19362751 - 01/03/14 10:32 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

I'm a fucking contractor,that's how we fuckin talk.

reminds me of Gran Torino, is that you Walter Kowalski? Im off the lawn


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
    #19362790 - 01/03/14 10:40 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Yes, it's everyone's business, because wealth a finite resource.




No its not.  Wealth can be, and is, created and destroyed.

Resources are a finite resource, not wealth.  Wealth and resources are not the same.  If everybody on the earth consumed the same amount of resources then everybody on earth would get the equivalent of 12k US dollars a year per family of four.  You think the person making 40 million makes more than he "needs"?  The rest of the world thinks the same thing of us making 40 thousand a year.  To be fair with your line of reasoning you must demonize every family making over 12k a year.


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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: DieCommie]
    #19362822 - 01/03/14 10:50 AM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Yes, it's everyone's business, because wealth a finite resource.




No its not.  Wealth can be, and is, created and destroyed.

Resources are a finite resource, not wealth.  Wealth and resources are not the same.  If everybody on the earth consumed the same amount of resources then everybody on earth would get the equivalent of 12k US dollars a year per family of four.  You think the person making 40 million makes more than he "needs"?  The rest of the world thinks the same thing of us making 40 thousand a year.  To be fair with your line of reasoning you must demonize every family making over 12k a year.




12 thou a year?! Those fat cats!


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19362850 - 01/03/14 10:58 AM (10 years, 27 days ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

morrowasted said:
Yes, it's everyone's business, because wealth a finite resource.




No its not.  Wealth can be, and is, created and destroyed.

Resources are a finite resource, not wealth.  Wealth and resources are not the same.  If everybody on the earth consumed the same amount of resources then everybody on earth would get the equivalent of 12k US dollars a year per family of four.  You think the person making 40 million makes more than he "needs"?  The rest of the world thinks the same thing of us making 40 thousand a year.  To be fair with your line of reasoning you must demonize every family making over 12k a year.




12 thou a year?! Those fat cats!




Like it or not, thats all the world can support. 

The average american family wage is 50k a year for a family of four.  If everybody were to live like this it would take four and a half earths for their to be enough resources.  50k divided by 4.5 is 11k.  We are so dripping rich in this country that we done even know how to live off of a sustainable amount of resources.  And yet the left has the gall to call other people out for being too rich...  Its not a very well thought out position.


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