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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
#19354259 - 01/01/14 10:46 AM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: Why don't you give some money to charities? You could deduct that from your taxes and then you'd get to choose where your money was going, for the most part, right? I will admit that I don't know very much about this but I know my parents did a lot of deductions based on charitable donations.
We have 3 children. One at Boston Law, one at Penn for a chem E PhD and one at Parsons School of Design. Unfortunately those charities are not deductible.
I don't think charitable contributions should be deductible. Almost every one that complies with the tax requirements is a scam that spends most of its receipts on fund raising.
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Confucian
...


Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 1,741
Loc: USA
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: qman]
#19355223 - 01/01/14 03:52 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Confucian said:
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zappaisgod said: I would rather not have been forced to pay into social security and the fact is that I have been utterly screwed by it.
Since you "write six figure tax checks every year" you are getting a great deal on social security (considering the max you could possibly pay towards SS is about $14,000). You apparently make millions (perhaps even 10s of millions) of dollars a year. Yet you pay the exact same towards Social Security as a person that makes $113,700. All income after that is SS-tax free.
"you are getting a great deal on social security"
No one gets a "great deal" on social security.
Tell that to the 40 million people aged 65 or older that get a $1300 check each month.
Sure as hell helps my grandma out. And also my aunt. You're probably one of those "libertarian" types that thinks 80 year old ladies should go put their applications in at Walmart and McDonald's to make that $1000/month. LOL.
Also, if someone makes $40,000,000 in a year and contributes $6800 (6% of $113,700) and another person makes $113,700 and contributes $6800....Then one person is getting a better deal (paying less as a percent of their income). If the $40 million guy paid 6% on all his income he'd pay $2.4 million to SS.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: Confucian]
#19355388 - 01/01/14 04:41 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Confucian said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Confucian said:
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zappaisgod said: I would rather not have been forced to pay into social security and the fact is that I have been utterly screwed by it.
Since you "write six figure tax checks every year" you are getting a great deal on social security (considering the max you could possibly pay towards SS is about $14,000). You apparently make millions (perhaps even 10s of millions) of dollars a year. Yet you pay the exact same towards Social Security as a person that makes $113,700. All income after that is SS-tax free.
"you are getting a great deal on social security"
No one gets a "great deal" on social security.
Tell that to the 40 million people aged 65 or older that get a $1300 check each month.
Sure as hell helps my grandma out. And also my aunt. You're probably one of those "libertarian" types that thinks 80 year old ladies should go put their applications in at Walmart and McDonald's to make that $1000/month. LOL.
Also, if someone makes $40,000,000 in a year and contributes $6800 (6% of $113,700) and another person makes $113,700 and contributes $6800....Then one person is getting a better deal (paying less as a percent of their income). If the $40 million guy paid 6% on all his income he'd pay $2.4 million to SS.
Bullshit. The guy making 40M is getting the exact same deal as the guy making 133K. The benefits are exactly equal.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 4 days, 15 hours
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: zappaisgod]
#19355431 - 01/01/14 04:49 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
morrowasted said: Why don't you give some money to charities? You could deduct that from your taxes and then you'd get to choose where your money was going, for the most part, right? I will admit that I don't know very much about this but I know my parents did a lot of deductions based on charitable donations.
We have 3 children. One at Boston Law, one at Penn for a chem E PhD and one at Parsons School of Design. Unfortunately those charities are not deductible.
I don't think charitable contributions should be deductible. Almost every one that complies with the tax requirements is a scam that spends most of its receipts on fund raising.
I don't understand. If you're spending X amount of money, you're spending X amount of money, regardless of where it goes. The money you pay for your children to go to college isn't the money you pay for taxes. I'm talking about redirecting the money you send to the federal government in other directions. You have to pay for taxes and whatever other expenses you take on, not one or the other. Even if you don't agree with the idea of giving to charities in principle, since it's possible, you can do the research in order to find worthwhile charities and give to those charities but not others.
In any case, why do you pay for your children's graduate school...? Surely someone getting a Chem E PhD can get a teaching fellowship like any other doctoral student and have their tuition paid for...? And if not, tell them to borrow money. I don't see why any parent would pay for something past a BA for their children. Mine didn't even do that, and they were fully capable of doing so.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: zappaisgod]
#19355456 - 01/01/14 04:55 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Bullshit. The guy making 40M is getting the exact same deal as the guy making 133K. The benefits are exactly equal.
The guy making 40M does not need social security. I do not believe that anyone deserves to make that much money anyway, for any reason whatsoever.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: Confucian]
#19355568 - 01/01/14 05:28 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Confucian said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
Confucian said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: I would rather not have been forced to pay into social security and the fact is that I have been utterly screwed by it.
Since you "write six figure tax checks every year" you are getting a great deal on social security (considering the max you could possibly pay towards SS is about $14,000). You apparently make millions (perhaps even 10s of millions) of dollars a year. Yet you pay the exact same towards Social Security as a person that makes $113,700. All income after that is SS-tax free.
"you are getting a great deal on social security"
No one gets a "great deal" on social security.
Tell that to the 40 million people aged 65 or older that get a $1300 check each month.
Sure as hell helps my grandma out. And also my aunt. You're probably one of those "libertarian" types that thinks 80 year old ladies should go put their applications in at Walmart and McDonald's to make that $1000/month. LOL.
Also, if someone makes $40,000,000 in a year and contributes $6800 (6% of $113,700) and another person makes $113,700 and contributes $6800....Then one person is getting a better deal (paying less as a percent of their income). If the $40 million guy paid 6% on all his income he'd pay $2.4 million to SS.
My father (age 71) also enjoys his SS payments, but he and his employers contributed for over 40 years into the program, will he ever receive what he and his employers contributed on a inflation adjusted basis? Not likely, unless he lives to 130.
My father and your grandma are the lucky ones, they are at least receiving payments as the SS remains solvent, in 10-20 years the people retiring will receive a small fraction of what they contributed, as the SS program goes into major insolvency.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
#19355897 - 01/01/14 07:02 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Bullshit. The guy making 40M is getting the exact same deal as the guy making 133K. The benefits are exactly equal.
The guy making 40M does not need social security.
So what? "From each according to their ability to each according to their needs?" What a novel concept, Karl.Quote:
I do not believe that anyone deserves to make that much money anyway, for any reason whatsoever.
It is none of your fucking business.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: zappaisgod]
#19355911 - 01/01/14 07:06 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Bullshit. The guy making 40M is getting the exact same deal as the guy making 133K. The benefits are exactly equal.
The guy making 40M does not need social security.
So what? "From each according to their ability to each according to their needs?" What a novel concept, Karl.Quote:
I do not believe that anyone deserves to make that much money anyway, for any reason whatsoever.
It is none of your fucking business.
Yes, it's everyone's business, because wealth a finite resource.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
#19355914 - 01/01/14 07:08 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
morrowasted said: Why don't you give some money to charities? You could deduct that from your taxes and then you'd get to choose where your money was going, for the most part, right? I will admit that I don't know very much about this but I know my parents did a lot of deductions based on charitable donations.
We have 3 children. One at Boston Law, one at Penn for a chem E PhD and one at Parsons School of Design. Unfortunately those charities are not deductible.
I don't think charitable contributions should be deductible. Almost every one that complies with the tax requirements is a scam that spends most of its receipts on fund raising.
I don't understand. If you're spending X amount of money, you're spending X amount of money, regardless of where it goes. The money you pay for your children to go to college isn't the money you pay for taxes. I'm talking about redirecting the money you send to the federal government in other directions. You have to pay for taxes and whatever other expenses you take on, not one or the other. Even if you don't agree with the idea of giving to charities in principle, since it's possible, you can do the research in order to find worthwhile charities and give to those charities but not others.
You do realize that charity is an income deduction and not a tax credit, right?Quote:
In any case, why do you pay for your children's graduate school...? Surely someone getting a Chem E PhD can get a teaching fellowship like any other doctoral student and have their tuition paid for...?
The tuition is covered. Living expenses not so much.Quote:
And if not, tell them to borrow money. I don't see why any parent would pay for something past a BA for their children. Mine didn't even do that, and they were fully capable of doing so.
Who the fuck do you think you are telling me what I should or shouldn't do to support my children? Tell them to get into debt with the most intractable debtor? That's idiotic.
I don't give two shits how your parents took care of you
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
#19355920 - 01/01/14 07:09 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Bullshit. The guy making 40M is getting the exact same deal as the guy making 133K. The benefits are exactly equal.
The guy making 40M does not need social security.
So what? "From each according to their ability to each according to their needs?" What a novel concept, Karl.Quote:
I do not believe that anyone deserves to make that much money anyway, for any reason whatsoever.
It is none of your fucking business.
Yes, it's everyone's business, because wealth a finite resource.
No, it is not and that is a stunningly ignorant statement but no surprise
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 4 days, 15 hours
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: zappaisgod]
#19355928 - 01/01/14 07:11 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
You do realize that charity is an income deduction and not a tax credit, right?
No, I didn't. My father led me to believe otherwise.
Quote:
The tuition is covered. Living expenses not so much.
Sounds to me like if anyone is a dellitante, it's your children and not me. No wonder you have this attitude.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
#19355929 - 01/01/14 07:11 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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No, it is not and that is a stunningly ignorant statement but no surprise
Please elaborate. I realize that wealth is something that grows but that does not mean it is infinite.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
#19355943 - 01/01/14 07:16 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
You do realize that charity is an income deduction and not a tax credit, right?
No, I didn't. My father led me to believe otherwise.
I suggest you inform yourself on the tax code before you continue to opineQuote:
Quote:
The tuition is covered. Living expenses not so much.
Sounds to me like if anyone is a dellitante, it's your children and not me. No wonder you have this attitude.
How are they dilettantes? They're in school. There is no stipend for law school and there is no stipend for a Parsons BA. Boston, NY and Philly are expensive places to live. They're the right age to be pursuing their education. My attitude is that what I do with my money is none of your fucking business. Soon they will be in the work force and able to support me and my wife in our dotage (Just kidding). I suspect your parents will be fucked.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: zappaisgod]
#19355948 - 01/01/14 07:17 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Then why did you call me a dilettante? I am in school.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
#19355949 - 01/01/14 07:17 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
No, it is not and that is a stunningly ignorant statement but no surprise
Please elaborate. I realize that wealth is something that grows but that does not mean it is infinite.
It is created all the time. There is no limit to it. Did you know that language is infinite? It's true. There is no limit to how many grammatically correct sentences can be made
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
#19355994 - 01/01/14 07:36 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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My parents are already comfortably retired. They were probably never as rich as you in material goods but they have a nice four bedroom house in a good neighborhood of a big city. Unless mass war breaks or something, they will never go hungry as they have planned well for retirement and did not expect their children to take care of them in old age.
Quote:
It is created all the time. There is no limit to it. Did you know that language is infinite? It's true. There is no limit to how many grammatically correct sentences can be made
That does not make it infinite. Infinity is an abstraction that really only exists in math. Did you ever take calculus? If something is being created all the time, that means that there is an amount greater than than the amount which previously existed. The original word for money in any language was originally etymologically derived from the most precious resource used by the speakers of that language, in the case of many indoeuropean languages, the first word for money was the word for cattle. There was a set amount of cattle. There was not an infinite amount of cattle. In order to create a medium for bartering such that an individual need not have amounts of all different kinds of resources, fiat money systems were devised. But this does mean that the wealth itself is infinite. The value of the sum total of the money is equal to the value of the sum total of the resources. Resources are not infinite. Resources can be created; thus, wealth can grow. Resources cannot, however, be made infinite.
Yes, I did not know that the number of possible grammatical structures is infinite (this property is called generativity). I have studied the transformational generative theory of syntax in depth as part of my graduate studies, because relevant to the research that I do in generating automated score reports for second-language corpus written sample analyses. I don't see how that is relevant, though.
Edited by morrowasted (01/01/14 07:51 PM)
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Confucian
...


Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 1,741
Loc: USA
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: qman]
#19356012 - 01/01/14 07:42 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: My father (age 71) also enjoys his SS payments, but he and his employers contributed for over 40 years into the program, will he ever receive what he and his employers contributed on a inflation adjusted basis? Not likely, unless he lives to 130.
My father and your grandma are the lucky ones, they are at least receiving payments as the SS remains solvent, in 10-20 years the people retiring will receive a small fraction of what they contributed, as the SS program goes into major insolvency.
Social Security is one of the few things that has been PROFITABLE for the last EIGHTY YEARS.
Currently it has, what, a $2.2 trillion surplus? Off of memory, I think if NO CHANGES ARE MADE then it can pay 100% of benefits through 2035, and 80% of the benefits from 2035 to 2075...Don't feel like looking up the numbers at the moment.
Can you imagine if other programs were classified as solvent/insolvent? Take the military, we've spent countless trillions of dollars in the last decade or two. It is insolvent. There is no "military tax" to fund the military. It is run on credit each and every year.
SS is one of the few programs that carries a specialized tax for the sole purpose of funding SS. After 80 years, our government has collected trillions more than it has paid out, and libertarians whine that it is insolvent, which is a lie. Never understood that one. It helps the elderly pay for groceries and rent; which in most cases 100% of the money recirculates back into the economy. It's a good program.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: Confucian]
#19356100 - 01/01/14 08:14 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Confucian said:
Quote:
qman said: My father (age 71) also enjoys his SS payments, but he and his employers contributed for over 40 years into the program, will he ever receive what he and his employers contributed on a inflation adjusted basis? Not likely, unless he lives to 130.
My father and your grandma are the lucky ones, they are at least receiving payments as the SS remains solvent, in 10-20 years the people retiring will receive a small fraction of what they contributed, as the SS program goes into major insolvency.
Social Security is one of the few things that has been PROFITABLE for the last EIGHTY YEARS.
Currently it has, what, a $2.2 trillion surplus? Off of memory, I think if NO CHANGES ARE MADE then it can pay 100% of benefits through 2035, and 80% of the benefits from 2035 to 2075...Don't feel like looking up the numbers at the moment.
Can you imagine if other programs were classified as solvent/insolvent? Take the military, we've spent countless trillions of dollars in the last decade or two. It is insolvent. There is no "military tax" to fund the military. It is run on credit each and every year.
SS is one of the few programs that carries a specialized tax for the sole purpose of funding SS. After 80 years, our government has collected trillions more than it has paid out, and libertarians whine that it is insolvent, which is a lie. Never understood that one. It helps the elderly pay for groceries and rent; which in most cases 100% of the money recirculates back into the economy. It's a good program.
"Currently it has, what, a $2.2 trillion surplus."
You see, that is called a scam. The SS money that has been collected goes into the general expense fund, that money has been already spent.
That "2.2 trillion" is theoretical, it doesn't exist. In fact, last year SS payed out $50 billion more than it collected, that is the first stage of insolvency.
The american public has been scammed about the solvency of SS, it's a lie, and at some point it will come out.
"After 80 years our government has collected trillions more than it has paid out"
I'm sorry, but this is not true. The money has been spent, it's not there. All governments end up being fiscally irresponsible, and the US government is no different, they pissed it away.
In the next 5-10 years as the baby boomers start collecting, it's going to put an incredible strain on the SS program, so far they can borrow to meet the short fall, but in 5-10 years it will not be possible, at that point reality will come into play.
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Confucian
...


Registered: 03/31/09
Posts: 1,741
Loc: USA
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: qman]
#19356528 - 01/01/14 10:57 PM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: "Currently it has, what, a $2.2 trillion surplus."
You see, that is called a scam. The SS money that has been collected goes into the general expense fund, that money has been already spent.
That "2.2 trillion" is theoretical, it doesn't exist. In fact, last year SS payed out $50 billion more than it collected, that is the first stage of insolvency.
The american public has been scammed about the solvency of SS, it's a lie, and at some point it will come out.
"After 80 years our government has collected trillions more than it has paid out"
I'm sorry, but this is not true. The money has been spent, it's not there. All governments end up being fiscally irresponsible, and the US government is no different, they pissed it away.
Just because we have a national debt doesn't mean that SS having surpluses is untrue. LOL.
There are lots of businesses that have profitable and unprofitable divisions. SS happens to be one of the most successful and profitable divisions of our government. You can't pretend that SS doesn't yield profits to our government just because overall we have deficits.
It's also not just theoretical. Just as an example, say Hyundai Corporation ran a loss in their car division of $1.5 billion. But they had profits of $1.0 billion in their truck division. Overall they had a $0.5 billion loss. I suppose you can pretend that the $1.0 billion profits in the truck division doesn't exist, that it only exists in theory, but that's not how business/government works.
SS has been a very successful program. With a few changes (raise eligibility age, offer buyouts to those that don't need it, raise the taxable income cap, etc.) it will continue to be profitable.
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myc_check1212
Through Brass



Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
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Re: I signed up for Obamacare. [Re: morrowasted]
#19357882 - 01/02/14 10:52 AM (10 years, 29 days ago) |
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It is none of your fucking business.
Yes, it's everyone's business, because wealth a finite resource.
spoken like another person who needs protection from zappas kids
-------------------- Lord_Senate: Pedophiles, rapists and everything in between. pastywhyte said: I'm not going to rush, I believe crow is best served cold. AhabMcBathsalts said: This is why democracy doesn't work. Because idiots like this get a fucking vote.
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