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OfflineAltered
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Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 36
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake.
    #19331111 - 12/26/13 11:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Genetically Modified Organisms.
There is not a single good reason why we have them.
What good comes from making corn resistant to darkness. Plants NEED sunlight, man. FUCK the scientists for trying to undo millions of years of evolution with a measly syringe of DNA. You can't fucking do that.

AND THEY LIE ABOUT WHATS ORGANIC AND WHATS NOT. YOU CANT TRUST LABELS. FUCK THE LAXness about this issue because it is serious...


POLITICALLY SPEAKING WE MUST DO EVERYTHING IN EACH OF OUR POWERS TO EDUCATE AND SPREAD AWARENESS AND STOP GMO BECAUSE IT IS THE DEATH OF BIODIVERSITY IN PLANTS.

pollen can travel in the air over 800 miles... thus gmo pollen will contaminate forever.... fml. THIS IS WHY I CRY EVERY NIGHT.

Mother nature dies a little on the inside when: the "farmers" farm GMO, when the manufacturers manufacture GMO, when the business CEO's market GMO, when the STUPID SHEEPLE BUY THE GMO. (mainly because they are poor and/or uneducated)


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.*º*.Floating Endlessly in the Expanse.*º*.



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OfflineTmethylM
Smear in the shale
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/12
Posts: 16,431
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Altered]
    #19331211 - 12/26/13 11:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I completely agree, thought I'm not so certain that GMO DNA can pollenate other plants.
I've been doing my part, I only buy local now, completely aborted shopping at grocery stores, I have also ensured people I know do the same, though some of them are not as good at it.

You can also spread truth on social media sites quite effectively.
Join me on FB Altered.


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¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Altered]
    #19331536 - 12/27/13 02:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Another tendentious, reactionary ploy lacking any form of nuance or insight into the actual issue. Just what the GMO debate needs :rolleyes:


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Altered] * 1
    #19332563 - 12/27/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I love GMO.  The more GM'ed my O's are the better.


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Invisiblepresentusthefuture
Stranger


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 127
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Altered] * 2
    #19336560 - 12/28/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

There is not a single good reason why we have them.




Quite right, there's more than one good reason.


Quote:

AND THEY LIE ABOUT WHATS ORGANIC AND WHATS NOT. YOU CANT TRUST LABELS. FUCK THE LAXness about this issue because it is serious...




Who's 'THEY'? You need a reference for this.


Quote:

POLITICALLY SPEAKING WE MUST DO EVERYTHING IN EACH OF OUR POWERS TO EDUCATE AND SPREAD AWARENESS AND STOP GMO BECAUSE IT IS THE DEATH OF BIODIVERSITY IN PLANTS.




Death of biodiversity? Really? Reference?


Quote:

Mother nature dies a little on the inside when: the "farmers" farm GMO, when the manufacturers manufacture GMO, when the business CEO's market GMO, when the STUPID SHEEPLE BUY THE GMO. (mainly because they are poor and/or uneducated)




I'm sure 'mother nature' doesn't care much of our petty little drama. Kind of like how scientists don't care much for conjectural trite in the place of things like references.



The only thing I think we have to worry about from GMOs is the potential for diseases like cancer or neurological disorders. But these can be determined by properly studying the said GMO and acting based on the results. Not all GMOs are harmful. Problems with biodiversity can be cured with good old-fashioned adaptation. The bigger problem I think comes from the Agricultural Industry in general. Profit-driven multi-national corporations are NOT competent or in any way trustworthy for handling the PROPER study and selling of GMOs and that's why companies like Monsanto with their White House connections and government lobbies, need to be Rounded Up and exterminated ASAP.




I find it amusing when people talk about 'killing the planet', when the reality is we're just killing ourselves. Earth has been around for billions of years. I don't think some pesky arrogant little parasite is going to somehow, within a few hundred years, turn our planet into something resembling Mars or Venus (nuclear annihilation). And I think it's going to take us losing our civilization to realize that the Earth does indeed have a form of 'immune system'.


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OfflineAltered
Stranger


Registered: 08/21/13
Posts: 36
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: presentusthefuture]
    #19337940 - 12/28/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

"Quite right, there's more than one good reason."

Well, actually, GMO does NOT produce the so called "super yield". The pesticide resistant residue ruins ecosystems by destroying butterfly, bee, bird, frog, and other wildlife populations. The monarch butterfly population went down 50% since GMO farming.


"Who's 'THEY'? You need a reference for this."

By "They", I mean businesses that market products that use ingredients that are genetically modified, and then they lie on the packaging calling it "healthy" and "natural" and what not.



"Death of biodiversity? Really? Reference?"

Yeah, if it this GMO thing gets out of hand, which it did already. You see GM canola was found growing WILDLY in south Dakota, california, and off the ports of JAPAN. Even though Japan disallows the cultivation of GMO. It's because pollen can travel airborne over 800 miles.
---------------------------

Toxic GMO pesticide residue was found in the blood of a baby from a mother who ate GMO food.


--------------------
.*º*.Floating Endlessly in the Expanse.*º*.



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InvisibleDawks
Jolly African Potato


Registered: 06/09/10
Posts: 4,935
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Altered] * 1
    #19338672 - 12/28/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What are you talking about OP, there are plenty of good reasons for having GM crops. And genetic engineering as science could have a tremendously positive impact on society improving the quality of life for millions, if not billions.


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date ; unzip ; strip ; touch ; grep ; finger ; mount ; fsck ; more ; yes ; umount ; sleep


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Invisiblepresentusthefuture
Stranger


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 127
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Altered] * 1
    #19339087 - 12/28/13 09:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Altered said:
"Quite right, there's more than one good reason."

Well, actually, GMO does NOT produce the so called "super yield". The pesticide resistant residue ruins ecosystems by destroying butterfly, bee, bird, frog, and other wildlife populations. The monarch butterfly population went down 50% since GMO farming.


"Who's 'THEY'? You need a reference for this."

By "They", I mean businesses that market products that use ingredients that are genetically modified, and then they lie on the packaging calling it "healthy" and "natural" and what not.



"Death of biodiversity? Really? Reference?"

Yeah, if it this GMO thing gets out of hand, which it did already. You see GM canola was found growing WILDLY in south Dakota, california, and off the ports of JAPAN. Even though Japan disallows the cultivation of GMO. It's because pollen can travel airborne over 800 miles.
---------------------------

Toxic GMO pesticide residue was found in the blood of a baby from a mother who ate GMO food.




And once again you fail to provide references for any of the claims that you are pushing... Understanding objective scientific enquiry is, unfortunately, not the same as hitting 'like' on the "Science is awesome!" Facebook page.



Here, this:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1871141307002442
is an article from a peer-reviewed journal on genetically-modified Bt176 maize within the diet of a flock of sheep. Notice the lack of adverse health effects.


This:
http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/1999/04/toxic-pollen-bt-corn-can-kill-monarch-butterflies
is probably what you should have posted as a reference. While this is of course tragic, I think this is a reminder of the amount of study and trial that needs to go into GMO research before it is released as a widespread crop. Hence another reason why the leaders of Monsanto need to be rounded up and executed.


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Invisibledeadwk
00101011


Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 8,890
Loc: Canada, eh? Flag
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Altered]
    #19340097 - 12/29/13 03:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That's a cool picture, do you have anything to back it up?
This post just looks like another one among the millions making baseless claims after baseless claims about harmful things. I suppose GMOs could be harmful, but provide me with factual scientific evidence from quality verifiable research and I'll believe you.

But until than, it's another picture with "facts" but no sources.


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Altered]
    #19340115 - 12/29/13 03:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Altered said:
Yeah, if it this GMO thing gets out of hand, which it did already. You see GM canola was found growing WILDLY in south Dakota, california, and off the ports of JAPAN. Even though Japan disallows the cultivation of GMO. It's because pollen can travel airborne over 800 miles.



Ah. So you use an example of an increase in biodiversity to illustrate the opposite. Interesting.

Quote:

Toxic GMO pesticide residue was found in the blood of a baby from a mother who ate GMO food.



GMO pesticide? Some conceptual clarity seems to be required here. There's a relation between GMO and the use of pesticides, but regarding them as one and the same is nonsensical. Regarding all GMO's as one and the same is nonsensical to begin with, and you seem to be doing just that.

Educate yourself before you start spewing activist crap. I have no problem with people who are against genetic engineering if they set up a credible, well-thought through argument. I can't take people seriously who just holler some random crap they read on ohnogmoiskillingmothernature.com without thinking things through. You clearly fall in the second category; it's up to you to move to the first. Start reading and come back in a year when you've learned something. Good bye.


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InvisibleGuy1980
Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 723
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Altered]
    #19340527 - 12/29/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Can someone explain the fundamental difference between isolating a gene in a lab to manipulate it's presence and effect on the organism, and, say, breeding a racehorse or attack dog?

I'm sure I'm missing something, but from a moral standpoint I don't see how using science to breed desirable qualities is any different from what we have been doing since time began.

I need resolution on this because I selected a breeding partner based on my own preferred criteria.  I'm starting to think I've been playing god.


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Invisiblepresentusthefuture
Stranger


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 127
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Guy1980]
    #19340767 - 12/29/13 09:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Guy1980 said:
Can someone explain the fundamental difference between isolating a gene in a lab to manipulate it's presence and effect on the organism, and, say, breeding a racehorse or attack dog?

I'm sure I'm missing something, but from a moral standpoint I don't see how using science to breed desirable qualities is any different from what we have been doing since time began.

I need resolution on this because I selected a breeding partner based on my own preferred criteria.  I'm starting to think I've been playing god.





The difference is biological engineering vs breeding.


So in your case with breeding for a superior attack dog/racing horse you would find a particular male and female with the desired traits to breed, and in turn they would pass on those traits through their combined DNA to their offspring. This is basic sexual reproduction.

However, with genetic engineering, you would do things in a way that naturally could never be done (or at least not without a great degree of random luck). Basically it comes down to scientists in a lab injecting a conventional cell with foreign proteins - altering it's DNA. For instance, you could inject a soybean cell with beta-carotene from carrots. That soybean cell could then pass on the strengths of that protein (such as resistances that normally that cell couldn't have) through cellular reproduction.

Basically, we're playing God.


The potential problem with genetic engineering comes from the effects that those added proteins could have on the functions of the receiving cell. A foreign protein could lead to the development of a toxin or carcinogen or could damage the functioning of that cell. Or it could just acquire traits with no adverse effects at all.

But not just that, you have to take into account the surrounding ecosystem as well. For example, from that Monarch butterfly and Bt corn controversy, the corn was producing a toxin that wasn't adapted to by the neighboring environment - in this case a massive population of widespread butterflies.


Right now, your body holds a truly massive amount of molecules that are constantly in flux with other molecules. Molecule's bonds break apart, they form other molecules by bonding to other molecules, etc. If an invader enters your body system, their method of attack, when it really comes down to it, is just physics and chemistry. They could try to break apart molecular bonds that form a part of your system (your body), they could unleash 'radicals' (molecules that are highly reactive), or molecules that can use your molecules to form harmful molecules. I mean this is obviously a very simplified explanation. But this is life.

The real question though, is how did cells acquire the ability to influence each other in such a way and how did they develop the ability to create DNA?


Edited by presentusthefuture (12/29/13 09:38 AM)


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Guy1980]
    #19340925 - 12/29/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Guy1980 said:
Can someone explain the fundamental difference between isolating a gene in a lab to manipulate it's presence and effect on the organism, and, say, breeding a racehorse or attack dog?





There is no fundamental difference unless you have religious style beliefs.  People who believe in god or a mother earth variant of god think that there is a way the earth is "supposed to be".  Supposed by whom?  By god or mother earth.  To them there would be a fundamental difference because changing a gene through selective breeding is "gods way" or "mother earth's way" and changing a gene in the lab is "man's way" which is always wicked to the believer.

If you are secular no such distinction is needed.  There is only evolution through mutation and selection and there is no external authority that declares which means of mutation are allowed (read: "natural") and which are not.  Because its all natural and it all has the potential to do great good or great harm, no matter how you define good and harm.


Edited by DieCommie (12/29/13 10:50 AM)


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OfflineIcyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa
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Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
Loc: Inbetween.
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: DieCommie]
    #19340965 - 12/29/13 10:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, we are all going to die a terrible death... just keep up thag smile:)


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleGuy1980
Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 723
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: presentusthefuture]
    #19341859 - 12/29/13 02:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks for the answer.  As I read it, the difference is speed.  Given our infinite monkeys and typewriters (or seeds and greenhouses), we'd get what GMO offers, but we'd have to let lady luck play her part.

I understand your concerns regarding this accelerated evolutionary process.  I agree with many concerns, after all, pollen is a difficult subject to control, but fundamentally it's no different to selective breeding and natural DNA mutations.

DieCommie seems to have wrote my anticipated answer (which I think is backed up by the preceding post).

GMO is basically when Emmett Brown meets Farmer Palmer.  I can see how things could go either way for humanity.


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Invisiblepresentusthefuture
Stranger


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 127
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Guy1980]
    #19344381 - 12/30/13 12:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Guy1980 said:
Thanks for the answer.  As I read it, the difference is speed.  Given our infinite monkeys and typewriters (or seeds and greenhouses), we'd get what GMO offers, but we'd have to let lady luck play her part.

I understand your concerns regarding this accelerated evolutionary process.  I agree with many concerns, after all, pollen is a difficult subject to control, but fundamentally it's no different to selective breeding and natural DNA mutations.

DieCommie seems to have wrote my anticipated answer (which I think is backed up by the preceding post).

GMO is basically when Emmett Brown meets Farmer Palmer.  I can see how things could go either way for humanity.





Lol my bad, I was stoned when I wrote that post and didn't realize you just wanted a moral argument..


Yeah, I think there's a lot of potential with genetic engineering. A lot of concepts from those futuristic genetic/eugenics sci-fi movies (like Gattaca) I'm sure will be within reach within our lifetimes - they're within reach now, just not for the masses. I just hope that we don't fuck up (like getting to greedy) and have to face nature's wrath.


Edited by presentusthefuture (12/30/13 12:41 AM)


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InvisibleGuy1980
Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 723
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: presentusthefuture]
    #19345243 - 12/30/13 06:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

presentusthefuture said:
I just hope that we don't fuck up (like getting to greedy) and have to face nature's wrath.




Yeah, that's my big concern.  I remember watching "The Corporation" - there's a section in it about suicide seeds, seeds which are essentially only good for one crop (they can't produce viable seeds).  The consequences of this suicide gene somehow crossing over into regular crops aren't worth thinking about.

I have a lot of faith in science, but when profit is the only driver of innovation, science can take us down dark paths.

I'm still for GMO's though - Fuck the scaremongering preachers!


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Guy1980]
    #19345292 - 12/30/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Guy1980 said:
Yeah, that's my big concern.  I remember watching "The Corporation" - there's a section in it about suicide seeds, seeds which are essentially only good for one crop (they can't produce viable seeds).  The consequences of this suicide gene somehow crossing over into regular crops aren't worth thinking about.




Please allow me to laugh out loud at this logical fallacy :lol:


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InvisibleGuy1980
Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 723
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: koraks]
    #19345319 - 12/30/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
Quote:

Guy1980 said:
Yeah, that's my big concern.  I remember watching "The Corporation" - there's a section in it about suicide seeds, seeds which are essentially only good for one crop (they can't produce viable seeds).  The consequences of this suicide gene somehow crossing over into regular crops aren't worth thinking about.




Please allow me to laugh out loud at this logical fallacy :lol:




I'll have to join you - I didn't see the stupidity of what I said (and I've been thinking it for years!).  Just like when I tell a girl I don't need a rubber, because infertility runs in my family.

You do see my issue though (though not in this particular case).  I'm no biologist as you may have guessed, and maybe it's my ignorance which scares me, but the thought of an unwanted trait somehow passing into the general plant populous - how do you put that genie back in the bottle?


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Invisiblexbrandnewxsnowx
Curious?
 User Gallery


Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 214
Re: This is regarding microbiology. GMOs. Scientists made an awful mistake. [Re: Guy1980]
    #19345597 - 12/30/13 09:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This thread is full of so much ill informed propaganda it's making me sick.


Yes, there are GMOs used for pesticide resistance. This can DEFINITELY cause problems in the ecosystems surrounding agricultural systems. However, plant scientists are also working to engineer GMOs that are critical to the growing population and the changing climate/microbiota.

For example, saline soils are starting to become a problem in much of the arable land in the world. Salinity in soil or water is one of the major abiotic stresses that reduce plant growth and crop productivity worldwide. More than 800 million hectares of land throughout the world are salt-affected (including both saline and sodic soils), equating to more than 6% of the world′s total land area. Some of the most serious examples of salinity occur in the arid and semiarid regions. For example, in Iran, Pakistan, Egypt, and Argentina. It is estimated that 20% of irrigated land are salt-affected and 2% of dryland agriculture are salt effected (2%; FAO 2008). Overall, it was estimated that the world is losing at least 3 ha of arable land every minute because of soil salinity. So, what are plant scientists doing to combat this? They've been engineering plants that can grow in these unusable salt-affected lands. Similar things are being done with drought and heat resistance which could become critical due to the changing climate.

I'm mainly sick of all this hate on mad scientist GMO creators. Seriously? We're trying to feed the fucking world and adapt the agricultural systems to keep up with the growing population. Sure you're probably in some posh house with lots of money, but not everyone is so lucky. Nor is everyone fortunate enough to have pristine fields to grow their crops.


Edited by xbrandnewxsnowx (12/30/13 09:36 AM)


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