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Lucid Toast
Suggestion expert



Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Canada
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Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time?
#19343673 - 12/29/13 09:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Name of the thread says it ~can dirty black lsd crystal do damage?
Please guys I don't want to turn into a glass of orange juice 
Thanks in Advanced guys!
-------------------- You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief
"The menu is not the meal." Alan watts “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” Bill Hicks
Edited by Lucid Toast (12/29/13 09:54 PM)
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TopPmz
<No Title>


Registered: 01/13/13
Posts: 2,615
Loc: FL
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Re: Can champagne xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19343731 - 12/29/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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AFAIK, its just really impure. I doubt it'll hurt you anymore than needlepoint, its just not very potent.
-------------------- "Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"
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Lucid Toast
Suggestion expert



Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can champagne xtal hurt you over time? [Re: TopPmz]
#19343759 - 12/29/13 09:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sorry I'm not sure what AKAIK means,  So the impurities for a fact don't do anything to you? Thanks for the quick response friend.
-------------------- You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief
"The menu is not the meal." Alan watts “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” Bill Hicks
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TopPmz
<No Title>


Registered: 01/13/13
Posts: 2,615
Loc: FL
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Can champagne xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19343767 - 12/29/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Supposed to be AFAIK(as far as I know) sorry. I'm high. No, not for a fact, I just personally wouldn't worry too much about it. I tried to look it up for you, but really only found that it provides an experience of lesser quality.
-------------------- "Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"
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Lucid Toast
Suggestion expert



Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can champagne xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19343787 - 12/29/13 09:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Because on shitty crystal on 200ish-ug I feel quite the amount of body tension and jaw clenching. I read earlyer today chinacat said he ate 3000ug of black champagne and he felt like he had ergot poisoning in the crystal to blotter thread....  Thanks I tryed a quick search resulting little yield and figured a some would chime in with interesting info so i can make a collective decision for my self.. I've just herd there's a bunch of black crystal made its way up here in Canada and I have recently found strong laced tabs with a surprising about of body tension. My cat gets it for 650 a sheet :/..
Edited by Lucid Toast (12/29/13 09:51 PM)
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Everything
(~} ;-}



Registered: 06/26/10
Posts: 5,157
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Re: Can champagne xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19344134 - 12/29/13 11:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ouuuuchh. 650 for dirty doses????
Yeah the quality isn't as good, the experience is diminished by the body tension you speak of. It's probably not good for you, but not in any specific way, just in general.
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my3rdeye



Registered: 08/10/12
Posts: 4,354
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Can champagne xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19344539 - 12/30/13 01:35 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Lucid Toast said: Because on shitty crystal on 200ish-ug I feel quite the amount of body tension and jaw clenching. I read earlyer today chinacat said he ate 3000ug of black champagne and he felt like he had ergot poisoning in the crystal to blotter thread....  Thanks I tryed a quick search resulting little yield and figured a some would chime in with interesting info so i can make a collective decision for my self.. I've just herd there's a bunch of black crystal made its way up here in Canada and I have recently found strong laced tabs with a surprising about of body tension. My cat gets it for 650 a sheet :/..
Body tension is a side effect of LSD, it comes with Sandoz LSD too. LSD causes side effects sometimes you feel them and sometimes you do not. Side effects have zero to do with LSD crystal purity. Most of the time you convince yorself to feel them or not feel them based on your preconcieved notions of the LSD purity. Close your eyes and get your friend to give you the tab. There is no way you can pick out this "dirty" LSD with a blind taste test. I see two people on here with same print one says it is dirty the other clean. It's just LSD. There is no such thing as dirty acid, you cannot feel impurtities when we are talking micrograms. LSD is a great experience don't ruin it for yourself thiking your acid impure, its not true, it is something you convinced yourself of. Stomach pain, leg cramps, shivers all normal LSD side effects, its not an impurity.
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TopPmz
<No Title>


Registered: 01/13/13
Posts: 2,615
Loc: FL
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Can champagne xtal hurt you over time? [Re: my3rdeye]
#19344811 - 12/30/13 03:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
my3rdeye said:
Quote:
Lucid Toast said: Because on shitty crystal on 200ish-ug I feel quite the amount of body tension and jaw clenching. I read earlyer today chinacat said he ate 3000ug of black champagne and he felt like he had ergot poisoning in the crystal to blotter thread....  Thanks I tryed a quick search resulting little yield and figured a some would chime in with interesting info so i can make a collective decision for my self.. I've just herd there's a bunch of black crystal made its way up here in Canada and I have recently found strong laced tabs with a surprising about of body tension. My cat gets it for 650 a sheet :/..
Body tension is a side effect of LSD, it comes with Sandoz LSD too. LSD causes side effects sometimes you feel them and sometimes you do not. Side effects have zero to do with LSD crystal purity. Most of the time you convince yorself to feel them or not feel them based on your preconcieved notions of the LSD purity. Close your eyes and get your friend to give you the tab. There is no way you can pick out this "dirty" LSD with a blind taste test. I see two people on here with same print one says it is dirty the other clean. It's just LSD. There is no such thing as dirty acid, you cannot feel impurtities when we are talking micrograms. LSD is a great experience don't ruin it for yourself thiking your acid impure, its not true, it is something you convinced yourself of. Stomach pain, leg cramps, shivers all normal LSD side effects, its not an impurity.
Most of that is true, but saying the LSD being impure isn't a factor is simply false. It's well known that champagne crystal is significantly less potent than fluff or needlepoint.
-------------------- "Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19344908 - 12/30/13 04:08 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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to really get some answer that is not just guessing you would really need some long term study done. Everything else is just wild guessing But given the dosage level (mic) even with more impurities its nt very likely to turn into an vegetable But if you are a substance abuser and take lsd every 2nd day, your chances becoming a vegetable grow ...
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19344919 - 12/30/13 04:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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black xtal?
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TopPmz
<No Title>


Registered: 01/13/13
Posts: 2,615
Loc: FL
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19344924 - 12/30/13 04:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, read chinacat72's Crystal to Blotter thread to see the different types of crystal.
-------------------- "Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: TopPmz]
#19344943 - 12/30/13 04:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I read it some time ago, I remember champagne, but I don't recall hearing of black crystal.
and OP, I certainly wouldn't pay 650 for it.
The good stuff is out there, if you keep searching I'm sure you'll find it
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cannabinated



Registered: 01/03/13
Posts: 14,743
Loc: Outside
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19345072 - 12/30/13 05:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That is so very sad. I never knew acid could be that bad. I take my pure, clean, and strong white on white blotter for granted. I am sensitive when it comes to psychedelics so if I were to get bad lucy it would probably be a terribly anxious experience. Perhaps I should get a couple strips in case my connections dry up.
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: cannabinated]
#19345093 - 12/30/13 05:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you're getting good acid, stock up man!
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Kief Ledger
Stranger

Registered: 11/10/11
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19345304 - 12/30/13 07:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Into The Woods said: If you're getting good acid, stock up man!
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Aopocetx
Writer



Registered: 03/20/06
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Kief Ledger]
#19345314 - 12/30/13 07:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It's just gonna be weaker. Most likely the impurities are inactive.
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Lucid Toast
Suggestion expert



Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19345731 - 12/30/13 10:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
my3rdeye said:
Quote:
Lucid Toast said: Because on shitty crystal on 200ish-ug I feel quite the amount of body tension and jaw clenching. I read earlyer today chinacat said he ate 3000ug of black champagne and he felt like he had ergot poisoning in the crystal to blotter thread....  Thanks I tryed a quick search resulting little yield and figured a some would chime in with interesting info so i can make a collective decision for my self.. I've just herd there's a bunch of black crystal made its way up here in Canada and I have recently found strong laced tabs with a surprising about of body tension. My cat gets it for 650 a sheet :/..
Body tension is a side effect of LSD, it comes with Sandoz LSD too. LSD causes side effects sometimes you feel them and sometimes you do not. Side effects have zero to do with LSD crystal purity. Most of the time you convince yorself to feel them or not feel them based on your preconcieved notions of the LSD purity. Close your eyes and get your friend to give you the tab. There is no way you can pick out this "dirty" LSD with a blind taste test. I see two people on here with same print one says it is dirty the other clean. It's just LSD. There is no such thing as dirty acid, you cannot feel impurtities when we are talking micrograms. LSD is a great experience don't ruin it for yourself thiking your acid impure, its not true, it is something you convinced yourself of. Stomach pain, leg cramps, shivers all normal LSD side effects, its not an impurity.
Quote:
rikuni said: to really get some answer that is not just guessing you would really need some long term study done. Everything else is just wild guessing But given the dosage level (mic) even with more impurities its nt very likely to turn into an vegetable But if you are a substance abuser and take lsd every 2nd day, your chances becoming a vegetable grow ...
Quote:
Into The Woods said: black xtal? 
awesome thanks guys I know I sound like a paranoide autistic savant, as a matter of fact my3rdeye I've been thinking the same sort of thing, most mornings I throw 1.5gs mushrooms in my tea and I get some stomach cramping and body tension also and that's off just a gram so I was starting t thi k it was normal, I asked this because I'm planning on buying a sheet later today or tmrw, there strong as fuck, strongest acid I've had this year so 650 isn't that bad when I ushally pick up half sheets for 300 of weaker quality, if you guys think I should keep looking I will, the olny reason I don't thinki can do better is because I read in snowdaze 's got dosed with crystle lsd thread that recently 5oz of black xtal got sent to Canada.... 5 oz is alot of acid.
-------------------- You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief
"The menu is not the meal." Alan watts “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” Bill Hicks
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Lucid Toast
Suggestion expert



Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19345782 - 12/30/13 10:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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And ps thanks guys your all respected posters, so at higher doses we have to worry about impurities? Do thease impurities do any thing at larger doses? I'm olny being obsessive because I read an idoit post that the alkaloids can kill you at high doses... Olny posers die right
-------------------- You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief
"The menu is not the meal." Alan watts “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” Bill Hicks
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Lucid Toast
Suggestion expert



Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can champagne xtal hurt you over time? [Re: TopPmz]
#19345793 - 12/30/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
TopPmz said:
Quote:
my3rdeye said:
Quote:
Lucid Toast said: Because on shitty crystal on 200ish-ug I feel quite the amount of body tension and jaw clenching. I read earlyer today chinacat said he ate 3000ug of black champagne and he felt like he had ergot poisoning in the crystal to blotter thread....  Thanks I tryed a quick search resulting little yield and figured a some would chime in with interesting info so i can make a collective decision for my self.. I've just herd there's a bunch of black crystal made its way up here in Canada and I have recently found strong laced tabs with a surprising about of body tension. My cat gets it for 650 a sheet :/..
Body tension is a side effect of LSD, it comes with Sandoz LSD too. LSD causes side effects sometimes you feel them and sometimes you do not. Side effects have zero to do with LSD crystal purity. Most of the time you convince yorself to feel them or not feel them based on your preconcieved notions of the LSD purity. Close your eyes and get your friend to give you the tab. There is no way you can pick out this "dirty" LSD with a blind taste test. I see two people on here with same print one says it is dirty the other clean. It's just LSD. There is no such thing as dirty acid, you cannot feel impurtities when we are talking micrograms. LSD is a great experience don't ruin it for yourself thiking your acid impure, its not true, it is something you convinced yourself of. Stomach pain, leg cramps, shivers all normal LSD side effects, its not an impurity.
Most of that is true, but saying the LSD being impure isn't a factor is simply false. It's well known that champagne crystal is significantly less potent than fluff or needlepoint.[/quote
I'd just like to know if there compeatly inactive to the body because if thease are true to be laced at 260ug of champange at 50% impurities and if I regularly eat one or two of thease bad boys a week.... That's alot of random chemicals to throw in my body that dosent get me high.
-------------------- You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief
"The menu is not the meal." Alan watts “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” Bill Hicks
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19346533 - 12/30/13 02:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Lucid Toast said: And ps thanks guys your all respected posters, so at higher doses we have to worry about impurities? Do thease impurities do any thing at larger doses? I'm olny being obsessive because I read an idoit post that the alkaloids can kill you at high doses... Olny posers die right 
Dirty acid will feel dirty and it will be weak. It won't kill you.
Still, very much worth continuing in your search for something clean.
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stuckinwonderland
Stranger



Registered: 11/22/12
Posts: 1,885
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19346810 - 12/30/13 03:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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the only thing I know about it is I watched sum neurosoup vid or read something by krystle cole about some guy involved with picard that gave away a bunch of black gross acid and it had some bad reactions but I feel like it shouldn't be much more dangerous than anything else that's not super pure
-------------------- Everything above here is a lie
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already



Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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I'm willing to try it myself and tell you if I feel any thing.
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KingKnowledge
Around



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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: larry.fisherman]
#19346842 - 12/30/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Honestly if I saw black crystal, I wouldn't touch it.
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: KingKnowledge]
#19346929 - 12/30/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
KingKnowledge said: Honestly if I saw black crystal, I wouldn't touch it.
Not with a ten foot pole
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19347002 - 12/30/13 04:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
KingKnowledge said: Honestly if I saw black crystal, I wouldn't touch it.
Not with a ten foot pole
OP better get some swiss needlepoint instead
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Aopocetx
Writer



Registered: 03/20/06
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: KingKnowledge]
#19347237 - 12/30/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
KingKnowledge said: Honestly if I saw black crystal, I wouldn't touch it.
Carbon is black. You wouldn't take acid contaminated with some carbon?
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Lucid Toast
Suggestion expert



Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19347491 - 12/30/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I can't be confident on what xtals on any tabs non of us can pretend to know, if I saw a vial of indeed black crystal lsd I would try and find out as much as I can about it, I'd still find somethin elce time being.
Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
KingKnowledge said: Honestly if I saw black crystal, I wouldn't touch it.
Not with a ten foot pole
That's racist. What if you got if for cheap and could recrystalize or something.
-------------------- You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief
"The menu is not the meal." Alan watts “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” Bill Hicks
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Lucid Toast
Suggestion expert



Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19347527 - 12/30/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cannabinated said: That is so very sad. I never knew acid could be that bad. I take my pure, clean, and strong white on white blotter for granted. I am sensitive when it comes to psychedelics so if I were to get bad lucy it would probably be a terribly anxious experience. Perhaps I should get a couple strips in case my connections dry up.
Quote:
Into The Woods said: If you're getting good acid, stock up man!
Don't pretend you know what xtals on your blotter you don't know if its champagne on white. So shut up.
-------------------- You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief
"The menu is not the meal." Alan watts “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” Bill Hicks
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19348069 - 12/30/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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No, you mightn't know what xtal it is, but you can feel the difference between crispy clean and weak, dirty L.
If it's good... you stock up while you can.
Calm your tits.
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KingKnowledge
Around



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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19348204 - 12/30/13 07:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Aopocetx said:
Quote:
KingKnowledge said: Honestly if I saw black crystal, I wouldn't touch it.
Carbon is black. You wouldn't take acid contaminated with some carbon?
Lol I mean maybe but it would look pretty gnarly...
I prefer clean drugs.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19348244 - 12/30/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Into The Woods said: No, you mightn't know what xtal it is, but you can feel the difference between crispy clean and weak, dirty L.
If it's good... you stock up while you can.
Calm your tits.
nah you can't.
"dirty" L is just weaker. body tension has nothing to do it. its dependent just like set and setting. dont believe me eat mushrooms from the same batch at same dose over a course of several months.
all LSD impurities are inactive. nothing harmful can remain in the L from synth without making it a completely other inactive compound altogether.
likewise LSD can be a variety of colors for the same purity. color is no indicator at all.
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SteelPanther


Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 3,453
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
#19348264 - 12/30/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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there could be some ergoloids left in it unreacted that cause more vasoconstriction than lsd
-------------------- Everything I say on here is not true, I am an insecure person who lies about doing drugs and stuff to make myself feel good. So any illegal things I may have talked about are all fictional.
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KingKnowledge
Around



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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: SteelPanther]
#19348277 - 12/30/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
SteelPanther said: there could be some ergoloids left in it unreacted that cause more vasoconstriction than lsd
This. Impurities can lead to unpleasant body loads
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: KingKnowledge]
#19348322 - 12/30/13 08:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, I totally disagree with user D.M.T. Who wouldn't believe chinacat72 (LSD: Crystal to Blotter), someone with a very high level of experience.
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
#19348330 - 12/30/13 08:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: Yeah, I totally disagree with user D.M.T. Who wouldn't believe chinacat72 (LSD: Crystal to Blotter), someone with a very high level of experience.
QFT
Sorry D.M.T.
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Webster10
Up like Trump


Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
Loc: Strawberry Fields
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19348374 - 12/30/13 08:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Chinacat 72 is, IMHO, the most informed person on LSD on shroomery. He stated that he went on a multi milligram dose of champagne and he thought he had ergot poisoning. I fully take his word for this. I believe both purity of crystal, set and setting have an effect on body load. You are going to have less body load on a needlepoint trip in isolated nature than on a champagne dose in a crowded stressful area no discussion. I do believe purity effects body load, however I do believe it's not the only factor that determines body load.
--------------------
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
#19348429 - 12/30/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What makes you think a drug dealer is more informed than someone who actually does chemistry? and all in one. never seen a thing from the guy that sounds like he's 'in the know' - just another guy who handled doses in the 90s. so what?
what could be active in nanogram measurement that for some reason mass spectrometers have never been able to pick up in analysis? lsd's SAR is a sensitive one, there's not much room for impurity to begin with..
Placebo is a powerful thing my friends...
Smaller weighted crystals never form the same..ever..even at same purity. Looking at a crystals color and saying how pure it is..thats just not scientifically feasible, and neither is these magically unidentified impurities causing vasoconstriction but no other effects whatsoever.
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Webster10
Up like Trump


Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
Loc: Strawberry Fields
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T] 1
#19348485 - 12/30/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Considering Chinacat 72 went on thousands of multi milligram doses and was fine on every white fluff and/or needlepoint trip he went on and then the one time he tryed champagne he thought he had ergot poisoning, I would consider him capable of determining body load from different purity crystal. You could have a phD in organic chemistry and I'm sorry, but I won't be convinced until you thumbprint with needlepoint and then thumbprint with champagne and tell me there is no difference in body load. I lol'd and facepalmed. He even said he saw a girl thumbprint with champagne and her finger tips turned blue and she had a seizure! If you don't accept that as evidence, then I just don't know what evidence is.
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
#19348496 - 12/30/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Am I the only one who doesn't know how someone could possibly have the discipline, care, and resources to make LSD, yet turn around and just say "fuck it let's just not purify it and throw it on the streets"?
Makes no sense. It's hard to swallow this whole story. If any underground labs that actually make LSD exist, they make it reasonably pure.
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
#19348502 - 12/30/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said: What makes you think a drug dealer is more informed than someone who actually does chemistry?
Sometimes experience trumps scientific research, especially when said scientific research is eventually determined to be inadequate and the experiences are finally quantified.
Quote:
D.M.T said: what could be active in nanogram measurement that for some reason mass spectrometers have never been able to pick up in analysis?
I thought we were talking micrograms, not nanograms, and I don't necessarily think that many careful analyses have been done on champagne LSD.
How many papers have you read on the analysis of champagne LSD?
Quote:
D.M.T said: Placebo is a powerful thing my friends...
I've seen reports on acid that seemed to be poor quality where the individual didn't even know the grade and therefore had no preconceptions.
Quote:
D.M.T said:Looking at a crystals color and saying how pure it is..thats just not scientifically feasible
But it's certainly indicative of potential impurities.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
#19348526 - 12/30/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I used to read microgram in the 90s - every LSD crystal tested around 68% pure but the color and size varied every time. coincidentally this is also why blotters were in the 60-70 microgram average at that time.
As it were I ate many doses from one of the guys who got busted with crystal that should have been that pure. no adverse effects whatsoever. sometimes there were vasoconstriction and sometimes there wasnt. same exact blotters. by ChinaCat's logic I should have had my fingers and toes amputated with how many of those doses I ate...
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
#19348543 - 12/30/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said: I used to read microgram in the 90s - every LSD crystal tested around 68% pure but the color and size varied every time. coincidentally this is also why blotters were in the 60-70 microgram average at that time.
I would imagine sometimes color would be indicative of significant impurity and sometimes it would be superficial impurity.
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Webster10
Up like Trump


Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
Loc: Strawberry Fields
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
#19348554 - 12/30/13 08:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You're obviously not getting the point. Have you ever thumbprinted with needlepoint? Have you ever thumbprinted with champagne? I'm starting to think you're a troll. There is clearly a difference in purity between white crystal needlepoint and black champagne. I actually don't think you've ever come in contact with good acid if you're doses are 68% pure. China cat stated that in the labs, some needlepoint batches tested to be 98% pure. I believe you are trolling and actually know nothing about LSD.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
#19348557 - 12/30/13 08:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said:
Quote:
D.M.T said: What makes you think a drug dealer is more informed than someone who actually does chemistry?
Sometimes experience trumps scientific research, especially when said scientific research is eventually determined to be inadequate and the experiences are finally quantified.
Quote:
D.M.T said: what could be active in nanogram measurement that for some reason mass spectrometers have never been able to pick up in analysis?
I thought we were talking micrograms, not nanograms, and I don't necessarily think that many careful analyses have been done on champagne LSD.
How many papers have you read on the analysis of champagne LSD?
Quote:
D.M.T said: Placebo is a powerful thing my friends...
I've seen reports on acid that seemed to be poor quality where the individual didn't even know the grade and therefore had no preconceptions.
Quote:
D.M.T said:Looking at a crystals color and saying how pure it is..thats just not scientifically feasible
But it's certainly indicative of potential impurities.
LSD and iso-LSD have been identified. anything else would need to be in nanogram measurement because it hasn't been. that's my point.
if you have access to journals you can see indeed they've done research into the subject of 'street acid' vs pharma grade LSD. forensic scientists tests LSD from busts and universities have published this info. it's not a secret you can't have very much slip without completely changing the reaction into something other than LSD.
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
#19348565 - 12/30/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have the terrible sneaking suspicion that chinacats and the other thumbprint guy were both accounts of a 17 year old kid with no life
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
#19348566 - 12/30/13 08:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Webster10 said: You're obviously not getting the point. Have you ever thumbprinted with needlepoint? Have you ever thumbprinted with champagne? I'm starting to think you're a troll. There is clearly a difference in purity between white crystal needlepoint and black champagne. I actually don't think you've ever come in contact with good acid if you're doses are 68% pure. China cat stated that in the labs, some needlepoint batches tested to be 98% pure. I believe you are trolling and actually know nothing about LSD.
Yeah dude.. I'm trolling.
Read my previous posts on the Shroomery if you still aren't fully convinced I'm a troll.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
#19348569 - 12/30/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said: if you have access to journals you can see indeed they've done research into the subject of 'street acid' vs pharma grade LSD. forensic scientists tests LSD from busts and universities have published this info. it's not a secret you can't have very much slip without completely changing the reaction into something other than LSD.
What you fail to take into account is that chances are all these chemical reports on acid that you've seen were probably good quality acid because most acid is good quality acid because on a few people make it in the entire world.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
#19348581 - 12/30/13 09:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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So 68% pure LSD is good quality acid but 50% pure is not? That makes no sense Da2ra
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
#19348588 - 12/30/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm stepping away from this thread.
I'm far too tired for this right now.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 10,991
Loc: In your brain
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
#19348609 - 12/30/13 09:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MagicalOrangutan said: I have the terrible sneaking suspicion that chinacats and the other thumbprint guy were both accounts of a 17 year old kid with no life
It's a tough call. A lot of it seems to be nostalgia-based.I was around then so I had to be eating and selling pages of the L they're talking about and one circle of people would say "man those yellow globes are dirty give me the turtles" so I'd give them the turtles, and the other group would say 'those turtles are weak dude i want the globes!!'.
after handling so much L thats why you can't convince me purity matters effects wise besides obviously diminishing them since there's less active material.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
#19348663 - 12/30/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said: So 68% pure LSD is good quality acid but 50% pure is not? That makes no sense Da2ra
It makes sense to me. Let me emphasize that 68 is close to 70 and it could be much different than 50. You just can't appreciate such a difference, I guess.
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Lucid Toast
Suggestion expert



Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
#19349101 - 12/30/13 11:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said:
Quote:
Into The Woods said: No, you mightn't know what xtal it is, but you can feel the difference between crispy clean and weak, dirty L.
If it's good... you stock up while you can.
Calm your tits.
nah you can't.
"dirty" L is just weaker. body tension has nothing to do it. its dependent just like set and setting. dont believe me eat mushrooms from the same batch at same dose over a course of several months.
all LSD impurities are inactive. nothing harmful can remain in the L from synth without making it a completely other inactive compound altogether.
likewise LSD can be a variety of colors for the same purity. color is no indicator at all.
Thank you dmt for dropping some knowledge once again, thanks a ton thease myths need to be busted its insanely important. I'm really grateful man no one needs this paranoia 
Quote:
Webster10 said: Chinacat 72 is, IMHO, the most informed person on LSD on shroomery. He stated that he went on a multi milligram dose of champagne and he thought he had ergot poisoning. I fully take his word for this. I believe both purity of crystal, set and setting have an effect on body load. You are going to have less body load on a needlepoint trip in isolated nature than on a champagne dose in a crowded stressful area no discussion. I do believe purity effects body load, however I do believe it's not the only factor that determines body load.
Quote:
Webster10 said: Chinacat 72 is, IMHO, the most informed person on LSD on shroomery. He stated that he went on a multi milligram dose of champagne and he thought he had ergot poisoning. I fully take his word for this. I believe both purity of crystal, set and setting have an effect on body load. You are going to have less body load on a needlepoint trip in isolated nature than on a champagne dose in a crowded stressful area no discussion. I do believe purity effects body load, however I do believe it's not the only factor that determines body load.
I'm surprised so meany people take chinacat72 serously he's got a big ego for a deadhead and deff trickster you think he actually Squirted lsd on his dick and stuffed some tour chick? I think it's funny that no one elce seems to nodice that chinacat72 and whiterasta wink attach other whenever they say some thing rediculace.. a trickster can spot a trick a mile away, he should be better at it if he was on lot so long... Fuck some times when I give out my "card" I wrap it in tinfoil and tell them I layed a single hit of lsd on it but they have to eat the whole thing and I wink at them (so any one smart knows there's not lsd on it) you know how meany people I've seen weight my number on there arm and eat blank cardbord I front of me, then I have to tell them I was joking and give the poor soul a real hit for eatin the paper like a champ.
Quote:
D.M.T said: What makes you think a drug dealer is more informed than someone who actually does chemistry? and all in one. never seen a thing from the guy that sounds like he's 'in the know' - just another guy who handled doses in the 90s. so what?
what could be active in nanogram measurement that for some reason mass spectrometers have never been able to pick up in analysis? lsd's SAR is a sensitive one, there's not much room for impurity to begin with..
Placebo is a powerful thing my friends...
Smaller weighted crystals never form the same..ever..even at same purity. Looking at a crystals color and saying how pure it is..thats just not scientifically feasible, and neither is these magically unidentified impurities causing vasoconstriction but no other effects whatsoever.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for clearing this up
Quote:
MagicalOrangutan said: I have the terrible sneaking suspicion that chinacats and the other thumbprint guy were both accounts of a 17 year old kid with no life
I'm not the olny one?! We should be friends, the shoomery is often cold when you doubt there almighty savior Chinacat72... Don't get me wrong there great "stories" to read and are a little informative but it's like that other thread "stories of the psychedelic underground" you really think his mom sucked on a sheet because she thought it was drugs, come on man.....
-------------------- You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief
"The menu is not the meal." Alan watts “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” Bill Hicks
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Lucid Toast
Suggestion expert



Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19349166 - 12/30/13 11:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
Lucid Toast said: And ps thanks guys your all respected posters, so at higher doses we have to worry about impurities? Do thease impurities do any thing at larger doses? I'm olny being obsessive because I read an idoit post that the alkaloids can kill you at high doses... Olny posers die right 
Dirty acid will feel dirty and it will be weak. It won't kill you.
Still, very much worth continuing in your search for something clean.
Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
KingKnowledge said: Honestly if I saw black crystal, I wouldn't touch it.
Not with a ten foot pole
Quote:
Into The Woods said: No, you mightn't know what xtal it is, but you can feel the difference between crispy clean and weak, dirty L.
If it's good... you stock up while you can.
Calm your tits.
Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
Da2ra said: Yeah, I totally disagree with user D.M.T. Who wouldn't believe chinacat72 (LSD: Crystal to Blotter), someone with a very high level of experience.
QFT
Sorry D.M.T.
Quote:
Into The Woods said: I'm stepping away from this thread.
I'm far too tired for this right now.
Tired or afraid to be wrong? it's okay to be wrong, we often are when we're just guessing! and there's olny an handful of us that actually know these truths because so little of us Handel xtal and know its properties. I'm so glad this is cleared up and even more happy that out "street grade" LSD and its impurities couldn't hurt a fly if it wanted to.Witch extends my happiness now I know is safe to buy this strong sheet for my friends and I. Stoke is HIGH! Thanks again D.M.T. This is Helping the community I'm sure..
-------------------- You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief
"The menu is not the meal." Alan watts “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” Bill Hicks
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Webster10
Up like Trump


Registered: 12/03/13
Posts: 9,966
Loc: Strawberry Fields
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19349936 - 12/31/13 06:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Lucid Toast said:
Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
Lucid Toast said: And ps thanks guys your all respected posters, so at higher doses we have to worry about impurities? Do thease impurities do any thing at larger doses? I'm olny being obsessive because I read an idoit post that the alkaloids can kill you at high doses... Olny posers die right 
Dirty acid will feel dirty and it will be weak. It won't kill you.
Still, very much worth continuing in your search for something clean.
Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
KingKnowledge said: Honestly if I saw black crystal, I wouldn't touch it.
Not with a ten foot pole
Quote:
Into The Woods said: No, you mightn't know what xtal it is, but you can feel the difference between crispy clean and weak, dirty L.
If it's good... you stock up while you can.
Calm your tits.
Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
Da2ra said: Yeah, I totally disagree with user D.M.T. Who wouldn't believe chinacat72 (LSD: Crystal to Blotter), someone with a very high level of experience.
QFT
Sorry D.M.T.
Quote:
Into The Woods said: I'm stepping away from this thread.
I'm far too tired for this right now.
Tired or afraid to be wrong? it's okay to be wrong, we often are when we're just guessing! and there's olny an handful of us that actually know these truths because so little of us Handel xtal and know its properties. I'm so glad this is cleared up and even more happy that out "street grade" LSD and its impurities couldn't hurt a fly if it wanted to.Witch extends my happiness now I know is safe to buy this strong sheet for my friends and I. Stoke is HIGH! Thanks again D.M.T. This is Helping the community I'm sure..
Once fucking again, take a thumbprint of needlepoint, then take a thumbprint of champagne, and honestly tell me there is no difference in body load. Of course when kiddies on the street buy one tab and say they can feel the difference in body load, they are BS'ing and have no idea what they're talking about. But when you eat 50-90mg's of crystalline LSD that is 95% pure, and then 50% pure, you are bound to notice differences. I am glad to clear this up for everyone. And about thinking Chinacat72 is a bored 17 year old, I could claim the same about any of you. Although I can't say for certain, I think chinacat72 is the real deal.
--------------------
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19350040 - 12/31/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Lucid Toast said:
Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
Lucid Toast said: And ps thanks guys your all respected posters, so at higher doses we have to worry about impurities? Do thease impurities do any thing at larger doses? I'm olny being obsessive because I read an idoit post that the alkaloids can kill you at high doses... Olny posers die right 
Dirty acid will feel dirty and it will be weak. It won't kill you.
Still, very much worth continuing in your search for something clean.
Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
KingKnowledge said: Honestly if I saw black crystal, I wouldn't touch it.
Not with a ten foot pole
Quote:
Into The Woods said: No, you mightn't know what xtal it is, but you can feel the difference between crispy clean and weak, dirty L.
If it's good... you stock up while you can.
Calm your tits.
Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
Da2ra said: Yeah, I totally disagree with user D.M.T. Who wouldn't believe chinacat72 (LSD: Crystal to Blotter), someone with a very high level of experience.
QFT
Sorry D.M.T.
Quote:
Into The Woods said: I'm stepping away from this thread.
I'm far too tired for this right now.
Tired or afraid to be wrong? it's okay to be wrong, we often are when we're just guessing! and there's olny an handful of us that actually know these truths because so little of us Handel xtal and know its properties. I'm so glad this is cleared up and even more happy that out "street grade" LSD and its impurities couldn't hurt a fly if it wanted to.Witch extends my happiness now I know is safe to buy this strong sheet for my friends and I. Stoke is HIGH! Thanks again D.M.T. This is Helping the community I'm sure..
Tired. I'd been awake for about 22 hours. The thread escalated, I was exhausted and didn't feel like engaging in an argument.
And no, I never said that dirty L is going to be harmful.
Some xtal is cleaner, with higher purity than other xtal. Not all LSD is the same in that sense. Quality varies. That's it. That's the extent to what I was saying.
Jesus Christ, man.
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
#19350041 - 12/31/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Webster please prove that anyone has ever actually done a "thumbprint???" Also please prove that chinacats and the other guy were actually who they claimed to be? Idk...
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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Lucid Toast
Suggestion expert



Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 820
Loc: Canada
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
#19350412 - 12/31/13 09:35 AM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Webster10 said:
Quote:
Lucid Toast said:
Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
Lucid Toast said: And ps thanks guys your all respected posters, so at higher doses we have to worry about impurities? Do thease impurities do any thing at larger doses? I'm olny being obsessive because I read an idoit post that the alkaloids can kill you at high doses... Olny posers die right 
Dirty acid will feel dirty and it will be weak. It won't kill you.
Still, very much worth continuing in your search for something clean.
Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
KingKnowledge said: Honestly if I saw black crystal, I wouldn't touch it.
Not with a ten foot pole
Quote:
Into The Woods said: No, you mightn't know what xtal it is, but you can feel the difference between crispy clean and weak, dirty L.
If it's good... you stock up while you can.
Calm your tits.
Quote:
Into The Woods said:
Quote:
Da2ra said: Yeah, I totally disagree with user D.M.T. Who wouldn't believe chinacat72 (LSD: Crystal to Blotter), someone with a very high level of experience.
QFT
Sorry D.M.T.
Quote:
Into The Woods said: I'm stepping away from this thread.
I'm far too tired for this right now.
Tired or afraid to be wrong? it's okay to be wrong, we often are when we're just guessing! and there's olny an handful of us that actually know these truths because so little of us Handel xtal and know its properties. I'm so glad this is cleared up and even more happy that out "street grade" LSD and its impurities couldn't hurt a fly if it wanted to.Witch extends my happiness now I know is safe to buy this strong sheet for my friends and I. Stoke is HIGH! Thanks again D.M.T. This is Helping the community I'm sure..
Once fucking again, take a thumbprint of needlepoint, then take a thumbprint of champagne, and honestly tell me there is no difference in body load. Of course when kiddies on the street buy one tab and say they can feel the difference in body load, they are BS'ing and have no idea what they're talking about. But when you eat 50-90mg's of crystalline LSD that is 95% pure, and then 50% pure, you are bound to notice differences. I am glad to clear this up for everyone. And about thinking Chinacat72 is a bored 17 year old, I could claim the same about any of you. Although I can't say for certain, I think chinacat72 is the real deal.
Dude you take a thumbprint and after you survive you can tell me it's real. Then ill finish reading your paragraph.untill then stop posting bullshit om the shoomery were trying to clear up myths surrounding lsd and other drugs we don't need people like this here. Thumbprints aren't real.
-------------------- You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief
"The menu is not the meal." Alan watts “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” Bill Hicks
Edited by Lucid Toast (12/31/13 09:38 AM)
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Into The Woods
Quarantine King


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 10,864
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19350651 - 12/31/13 10:52 AM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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You're talking about clearing up myths about LSD and now you're claiming that thumbprints aren't real?
All right, well in the interest of clearing this up, do you have anything to back this statement up with?
Or is it just your own disbelief?
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Aopocetx
Writer



Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 2,421
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: MagicalOrangutan]
#19350903 - 12/31/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
MagicalOrangutan said: Webster please prove that anyone has ever actually done a "thumbprint???" Also please prove that chinacats and the other guy were actually who they claimed to be? Idk...
It's actually pretty easy to prove. LSD exists in crystal form. LSD gets absorbed through your skin. Thus SOMEONE OUT THERE has put a small crystal on their thumb and tripped...
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Webster10
Up like Trump


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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19350922 - 12/31/13 12:11 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Thank you, Lucid Toast, you have proven yourself to indeed be a troll or a moron. Robert Hunter took .25 grams of crystalline LSD. So there's your thumbprint. I'd rather not argue whether or not thumbprints exist becuase it is clear to anyone with a functioning brain that thumbprints are real. The debate was whether crystal purity affects body load. And the definitive answer is: When taking microgram range doses, NO. When taking multi milligram doses, YES. Please don't try to argue. I and others have provided enough evidence. If you don't accept this evidence, that is your bussiness.
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Dark_Star
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19350923 - 12/31/13 12:11 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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LSD doesn't absorb through the skin. That has been disproven by such experts as Dr. Nichols & Nick Sand. As far as chinacat goes, he's the real deal. Several old school shroomerites have met & hung out with him in the past. Of course all the newbs that are assuming he was a teenager weren't around back then.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Dark_Star]
#19350997 - 12/31/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Dark_Star said: LSD doesn't absorb through the skin. That has been disproven by such experts as Dr. Nichols & Nick Sand. As far as chinacat goes, he's the real deal.
Contradiction. chinacat says that he once absorbed LSD through his skin:
-- chinacat72 said:
Quote:
Tell us some other stories of lost inhibitions and blissful freedom please.
Allright one more story tonight  This one's from a dark period of my life 'but an important night. It's 96 and i'm livin in a hotel down on fisherman's warf in San Francisco. I am horribly addicted to herion. Ravaged and in the grips of the beast. My friend's try everything they can to reason with me. I blow them all off and only leave my hotel room to go to the post office and western union and then down to the mission district to score my dope for the day. One day i'm in my room in my constant nod and a good freind comes by to see me. One of the elder heads that first showed me the ropes on tour. He sit's there and cries and tells me i'm rotting away and i'm like ya ya see ya later and he leaves. A little later he calles me and say's " We love you and you need to see the light" and hang's up. I'm like whatever man and as i hang up the phone i feel it. LSD crystal doesn't require you to eat it. If you get it on your skin you get high. And as i look at my hand where i held the phone when he called me there was little specks of white fluff all over. I realized he had sprinkled it on my phone.I was like noooooooooo not now. I knew i was in for a bad trip since being a junkie you get full of bad karma. I went into the bathroom and imediatly puked everywhere. It was coming on strong and fast. I layed down and saw what a ravaged wreck of a person i had become from this evil drug. I was at the end of my rope and took off out the door and down the hall out of the hotel. Hell i was probably going to jump into the bay. As soon as i got out side there was another of my close friend's waiting casually smoking a cigarette. He flicked it and said I think it's time we got out of the city and went up into the mountain's. That's when my healing began. I was so sick , but i was taken care of. I havn't touched herion since. I never will. That's the Grateful Dead family for ya  --
2/25/03 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1335338#1335338
Nichols never proved anything; he just reiterated what Nick Sand said, which was that Sand coated his arm with a solution of LSD.
Edited by s240779 (12/31/13 12:42 PM)
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Webster10
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Dark_Star]
#19351000 - 12/31/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Dark_Star said: LSD doesn't absorb through the skin. That has been disproven by such experts as Dr. Nichols & Nick Sand. As far as chinacat goes, he's the real deal. Several old school shroomerites have met & hung out with him in the past. Of course all the newbs that are assuming he was a teenager weren't around back then. 
Could you please explain how Albert Hoffman went on his first LSD trip on accident then? And could you explain what really happened when chinacat72 said an old family member put fluff on his phone to make him trip to realize the horoors of his heroin addiction? In that thread he stated that if ANY amount of crystal touched your skin you were going to trip. But yes, thumbprints were done by putting crystalline LSD on your thumb and then licking it off becuase oral ingestion is, afterall more efficent then absorbtion through skin.
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s240779

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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
#19351012 - 12/31/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lucid Toast said: Dude you take a thumbprint and after you survive you can tell me it's real. Then ill finish reading your paragraph.untill then stop posting bullshit om the shoomery were trying to clear up myths surrounding lsd and other drugs we don't need people like this here. Thumbprints aren't real.
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Webster10 said: Thank you, Lucid Toast, you have proven yourself to indeed be a troll or a moron. Robert Hunter took .25 grams of crystalline LSD. So there's your thumbprint.
There's much better evidence for thumbprints. That of a completely detailed medical report of people who did thumbprint-level doses:
"Most did not remember being brought to the hospital; otherwise, no apparent psychologic or physical ill effects were noted in a year of follow-up examinations of five patients. Most of the patients continue to use LSD intermittently."
Coma, Hyperthermia and Bleeding Associated with Massive LSD Overdose: A Report of Eight Cases. John C. Klock, MD, Udo Boerner, MS, and Charles E. Becker, MD. West J Med. 1974 March; 120(3): 183–188.
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Dark_Star
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
#19351033 - 12/31/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Albert Hofman had a history of having spontaneous mystical experiences, prior to the supposed accident. Furthermore, even a low dose of LSD lasts far longer then 2 hours, which is what was described in that experience.
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Editor's Introduction At Mindstates IV, Dr David Nichols, chemist and pharmacologist, professor of medicinal chemistry and molecular pharmacology at Purdue University, proposed a novel alternate reading of Albert Hofmann's famous 1943 "Bicycle Day" and a brief overview of his research.
Presentation I'm here to give you a report from the institutional research division of your community. If you pay taxes to the IRS, you support my research to understand how psychedelics affect brain chemistry; thank you.
Since we're just a slight bit past the 60th anniversary of the discovery of LSD, I thought I would have a little audience participation fun, and give you a little insight into how the scientific process works. Because, often times in this community, "scientist" has somewhat of a pejorative connotation. I want to show you how we're not so different, and do a little experiment.
You know the way science works. We make observations, we develop or formulate a hypothesis that is consistent with those observations, and then we attempt to carry out experiments to test the hypothesis. I don't think we'll be able to carry out the experiments to test the hypothesis, but what I want to do is develop a hypothesis today that I think you'll find very interesting. But the first thing we need to know is what kind of a database we're working with. What I'd like you to do is raise your hand if you have read Albert Hofmann's account of the discovery of LSD.
[nearly everyone in the conference hall raises their hand]
"The only hypothesis I can come up with that's consistent with all of these facts is that on April 16, 1943, Albert Hofmann did not get LSD in his body at all. He had a spontaneous mystical experience!" Ah, just as I suspected. So we have a good database, and probably an educated database.
What I want to do now is another experiment. I want you to raise your hand and hold it in the air as long as I am stating things that you hold to be true, and when I say something you believe not to be true, then put your hand down.
So, the first thing I'm going to say, if you believe it to be true, raise your hand, and keep it up there until I say something you disagree with.
On April 16, 1943, when Albert Hofmann accidentally ingested LSD, he ingested at least 25 micrograms. Now keep your hand up until I say something you disagree with.
[most people in the audience raise their hands]
On that same date in 1943, Albert Hofmann ingested at least 50 micrograms of LSD.
[a few people put their hands down]
On that same date in 1943, Albert Hofmann ingested at least 75 micrograms.
[several more people put their hands down]
And then again, on that date in 1943, Albert Hofmann ingested at least 100 micrograms.
[more people put their hands down]
On that same date, Albert Hofmann ingested 150 micrograms.
[only a few people still have their hands still up]
Well I think I've already proved the point. I think there's a consensus that Albert Hofmann must have ingested at least 50 to 75 micrograms, and there are people in here who believe he must have ingested 100 or 150 micrograms. Now we've estimated, with this educated database, approximately how much LSD he must have accidentally gotten inside himself.
Now, we'll do the same thing again. In April 1943, after his accidental ingestion, how many people believe that Albert Hofmann would have experienced the effects of LSD for at least 10 hours, based on that dose?
[Several people put their hands up]
Now if we believe he took LSD, and if we believe he took 50 to 75 micrograms -- that's the context -- how many people believe the effects should have lasted at least 8 hours. [many more hands go up] How many believe the effects would have lasted at least 6 hours? [more hands go up] How believe the effects would have lasted at least four hours? [nearly all hands are up at this point]
Now, how many people believe that the effects of a 50-75 microgram dose of LSD would only have lasted two hours? [nearly all hands go down]
We read from his account: "I perceived an uninterrupted stream of fantastic pictures, extraordinary shapes with intense, kaleidoscopic play of colors. After some two hours (emphasis added) this condition faded away." (Hofmann, 1983).
Well now, that was a conundrum for me. I read that and I thought, "gee I'm a scientist, and this doesn't make sense with what I know." And for most of you, I think, that doesn't make sense either. So, the question: how can we formulate a hypothesis consistent with this observation? We need to consider a few things.
We know that Albert originally synthesized LSD in 1938 as part of an ambitious program to make a number of lysergamides. LSD-25 was only the 25th in the series. I actually don't know how many of those compounds he made, but let's assume he only made 30. So we had up to 30 in the series. He may have made many more actually, but at least say 30. And they were all tested; he sent the pharmacology department LSD-25, 24, 23... and so forth. They then say, "LSD-25: not interesting." The assays of that day really didn't provide much information; they were very unsophisticated. But five years later, Albert has a hunch that the pharmacology department missed something on this 25th in the series.
Now that's kind of peculiar. I'm familiar with the drug industry, and I've actually started a small company myself. Imagine you're a musician, and you've created this musical piece. It's really wonderful; it's one of the best pieces you've ever written; you play it for people, they think it's great. And this one artist comes down. He's very creative but he has no musical talent at all, really tone deaf, he listens to your music and he says, "Man that sucks. You missed something. There's something missing." Now you as a musician are probably going to have some sort of a gut reaction to that. And even though the pharmacologist at Sandoz was probably a friend of Albert's, can you imagine this chemist coming down the hall and saying, "You know, I made this compound five years ago, out of this whole series, and there's this one compound, LSD-25, that you said was uninteresting... but you must have missed something. I just have this 'peculiar presentiment,' this strange hunch that you missed something." You're going to look at Albert and say, "You know, really, I'm an expert in pharmacology Albert. We tested it very well."
The Germans and the Swiss are very precise chemists, and pharmacologists, and scientists. There wouldn't have been any question about this being somehow mis-analyzed the first time.
This is another interesting point. Why the 25th? We know that only the 25th in the series was active. Any other compound that he made -- and I've made many of them, we've tested many of them -- none of the others approach LSD, either in its sophistication or in its potency. Only the 25th. And this is unusual. In pharmacology often you have a regular series. If we think of things like DOB, and DOI, there's a kind of regular progression. They all fit into a kind of subgenus. And LSD doesn't. We don't call the other members of the series Albert made as LSD something or other, but if we had LSD-23, 24 and 26, they would all be one-tenth the activity of LSD-25. Peculiar presentiment indeed!
As I've said, Swiss and German chemists have a reputation -- today and back then -- for being absolutely meticulous. If we had gone into Albert's lab at Sandoz in 1943, we would probably have found everything in its place, organized in an obsessively neat manner. No dirty glassware, no trash on the floor, meticulous. How in the world did a meticulous Swiss chemist get 50 to 75 micrograms or more of LSD into his body? We don't know.
Another fact: I've made LSD in my lab on many occasions for research purposes, possibly in not so meticulous a manner as Albert Hofmann. Nothing ever happened. I had several graduate students who made LSD as an intermediate for projects. No accidental ingestion of LSD ever occurred. A technician in my lab makes it routinely because we use it as a drug to train our rats. He's learned by experience that he never gets high, nothing ever happens. And yesterday I was talking to Nick Sand, and Nick said, "I made a solution of LSD in DMSO…" -- DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) is a chemical that greatly enhances absorption of other chemicals through the skin -- he says, "…I painted it on my skin. Nothing happened." A concentrated solution and nothing happened! How did this very meticulous Swiss chemist get the LSD into his body? I don't know.
The other fact we need to think about is when Albert was a child, he had a spontaneous mystical experience. Now depending on whether you're a psychologist or a psychiatrist or whatever, we could say that Albert had a predisposition to altered states of consciousness.
So what facts do we know? I'm going to formulate a hypothesis. He took a dose that by your consensus should have lasted certainly more than two hours, but it only lasted two hours. He was a meticulous chemist -- a Swiss chemist. Anyone I know who's worked with LSD -- and Nick Sand painted a solution of it on his arm -- didn't get high. This doesn't make sense. And what is this peculiar presentiment? Why the 25th in the series? Inexplicable! And, he was predisposed to altered states of consciousness.
The only hypothesis I can come up with that's consistent with all of these facts is that on April 16, 1943, Albert Hofmann did not get LSD in his body at all. He had a spontaneous mystical experience!
Now if I were working in the lab with a new chemical, and I started having kaleidoscopic visions of wonderful colors and patterns, my first thought wouldn't be that I was having a spontaneous experience. My first thought would be, "What was that new chemical I was working with? I need to tell Sasha about it." [laughter]
I think that's what happened, that's the hypothesis. We can't test that hypothesis, but when I saw Albert in Basel a couple years ago, I presented that particular hypothesis to him and said, "What do you think?" He said, "It's entirely possible." So, that's our little experiment, and I think most of you really didn't think seriously about the discovery of LSD, but it puts a different light on it.
Now one aside to that we could then bring up is this. If the force that caused him to have this peculiar presentiment -- and very peculiar it is -- is the same force that induced him to have this mystical experience, which caused him to focus on this chemical, we can hope it might happen again.
Overview of current research I can't tell you all the things I do but let me just quickly give you an overview of what a hard scientist so-to-speak does, a reductionist scientist.
I look at how psychedelics affect brain chemistry. We make molecules. We make modified LSD analogues, we have a computer model of the serotonin receptor that's in the brain that we think is a target of these, computer generated that we discovered. We simulate the docking of these molecules to the receptor. We try to understand what are the amino acids in the receptor that interact with the different parts of the molecule. Then we look further in, we say when the molecule docks to the receptor, changes occur in the intercellular biochemistry. We look at the changes, how do those occur. My son who is a PhD in molecular biology doing neuropharmacology work at Vanderbilt has then looked even further and said what does LSD do to genetic regulation. He uses micro-array analysis to look at the gene expression changes following LSD in rats, and has seen changes in expression of 80 different genes. And then we have rat behavior where the rats tell us, "I think you gave me LSD" or "I don't think you gave me LSD." So we start from the design of the molecule, using computers, we synthesize the molecules, we then dock them in the receptor. We're mutating the receptor to change the amino acids so we can see how the complementary amino acids in the receptor modify the interaction with the drug. Then we look at the signaling in the receptor, what signaling pathways are turned on. And then ultimately to genetic regulation, where do protein expression changes occur.
We're looking at all the basic science -- preclinical stuff. I didn't have an MD degree so I couldn't do clinical research. This was sort of disturbing to me, but to get around it I founded the Heffter Research Institute, and they're doing all the clinical work. We're studying psilocybin -- in Zürich we have a clinical facility over there, with Franz Vollenweider. Most people know about the University of Arizona psilocybin study in OCD. Most people know about Charlie Grob's psilocybin study in terminal patients at UCLA. Those are all projects funded by the Heffter Institute.
So, we've translated everything from the basic science on into the clinical. I don't know if we can do a whole lot more. I'm doing as much as I can. We're not doing research with LSD, but I believe within a framework of 5 to 10 years, if we continue on and are successful with our psilocybin research, it will be possible to get protocols approved in the United States. We might start in Europe first but I think it will be possible to reinitiate clinical studies with LSD.
http://www.erowid.org/general/conferences/conference_mindstates4_nichols.shtml
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Webster10
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
#19351047 - 12/31/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Thank you for clearing that up dark star. You seem very educated so, od it isn't too much work, could you list the methods of administering LSD from most efficient to least efficient?
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rikuni

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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
#19351124 - 12/31/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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I am totally sure that for women its teh Vaginal LSD dosing for all others I might be best to just eat lots of that SHIT !  And if your gay you should know what to do
Edited by rikuni (12/31/13 01:13 PM)
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s240779

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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Dark_Star]
#19351129 - 12/31/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Dark_Star said: Albert Hofman had a history of having spontaneous mystical experiences, prior to the supposed accident. Furthermore, even a low dose of LSD lasts far longer then 2 hours, which is what was described in that experience.
That's a bunch of fucking nonsense, and in my opinion it shows just how narrow minded David Nichols is. As Nichols says, Hofmann has, when speaking about LSD, brought up experiencing great awareness when being in nature as a kid. He said at least some of his LSD trips were highly reminiscent of such experiences. For David Nichols to interpret this commentary as conveying that of a full on "mystical experience" is an indication of his scientific simple mindedness. He's seriously overestimating what Hofmann was talking about. It's very common for people to say that they felt like a child again after taking LSD and other similar drugs. As for the two hours, here's my view: Hofmann was particularly intelligent and had a very nice, placid upbringing in one of the highest quality countries on the planet. He inadvertently absorbed a very small amount of LSD on that day and it was such a low dose that most people would barely feel it, but Hofmann's body and mind was more receptive to LSD than most people...and such a dose -- that most people wouldn't feel -- produced noticeable effects for about 2 hours. Nichols claims that LSD simply can't last for 2 hours, but I'm alleging that if soemone is sensitive enough they can achieve relatively brief effects from an exceptionally low dose. Indeed, the childhood mystical experiences are a clear indication that he was more sensitive to LSD than most people. Another point I want to make is that Stanislav Grof, in his book LSD: Psychotherapy talks about how psychological resistance can drastically weigh down on the effects of LSD. Hofmann, having not consciously ingested something, may have successfully exerted effort to stop the effects as they grew stronger and he became increasingly uncomfortable. The information I am presenting is far more plausible than what David Nichols is saying. Once again, it's based on Nick sand claim about coating his arm with a solution of LSD (plus DMSO).. I ask, what are the physics of transdermal absorption of drugs? Are all areas of the skin effective for all drugs? The arm has a lot of fat. Could that have messed up the absorption? did the LSD epimerize to iso-LSD? Anyway...
Let's take a look at Hofmann's childhood mystical experiences and compare them to his first time being on LSD:
The Mystical Wonders of Nature The distant battlefields had little effect on eight-year old Albert. Despite the horrors of war, those years spent with his parents and siblings on Martinsberg were happy ones for him. His primary school teacher was impressed by this attentive and diligent pupil. His love of nature was reinforced by the plants and animals surrounding him. Nothing pleased him more than to wander through the fields and forests, alone or with his pals, and look out over the valley below through which the Limmat river wound its way to Zurich. Albert was a keen observer of the changing seasons, the greening of spring, the long summer days, the withering foliage in fall, and the winter snow that magically blanketed the fields and meadows in white. “Back then, I promised myself that one day I would again live in a countryside like the Jura.”

Albert (l.) on his first bicycle
Like many young children, Albert was interested in philosophical questions. Decades later, he recalled a conversation he’d had on the way to school as a ten-year old with a friend who asked him, “Do you still believe in God? I don’t— not since I found out they’ve been fooling me about the Christ Child [bringing presents] and that St. Nicholas was no one other than my Uncle Fritz.” Albert answered that it was different with God than with the Christ Child and St. Nicholas because only God could have made the world and people.” Each spring, Albert returned to wander through the forest on Martinsberg. There, he felt free yet secure and forgot all worries. One sunny morning he would remember the rest of his days, his perceptions rose to unexpected dimensions and he experienced a spontaneous mystical vision of the unity of all being that would shape his life ever after. He could vividly recall every detail: “It was these experiences that shaped the main outlines of my world view and convinced me of the existence of a miraculous, powerful, unfathomable reality that was hidden from everyday sight.” He could not recall the year but knew it was on a May morning and the particular place it happened. As he walked through the forest, he began to hear birdsong more clearly, the fresh green of the trees and the sparkling of sun through the leaves seemed more intense. Everything shone with incredibly clear light. He wondered if he hadn’t looked or listened carefully until then or whether, on that particular morning, the springtime forest first revealed itself in actuality. He felt his heart surge and was filled with bliss more profound than at any time before in his life, a sense of affinity with his surroundings, absolute emotional security as part of creation. As these overwhelming impressions slowly ebbed, he regretted their passing. And Albert wasn’t sure if he could report these marvels to grownups since he had never heard them speak of such things.
Later in his youth, this happened several more times—exhilarating experiences of nature, “enchanting” moments that granted him a glimpse behind the veil of the everyday world. He began to reflect upon the nature of the material world and wondered if as an adult he would still be able to have similar experiences and communicate them to others. These experiences prepared him to follow the path that led to his career: “It was unexpected, but hardly fortuitous that, in midlife, my professional activity converged with the visionary intuition of my boyhood.”
How long will this last, this delicious feeling of being alive, of having penetrated the veil which hides beauty and the wonders of celestial vistas? It doesn’t matter, as there can be nothing but gratitude for even a glimpse of
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“Last Friday, April 16, 1943, I was forced to interrupt my work in the laboratory in the middle of the afternoon and proceed home, being affected by a remarkable restlessness, combined with a slight dizziness. At home I lay down and sank into a not unpleasant intoxicated-like condition, characterized by an extremely stimulated imagination. In a dreamlike state, with eyes closed (I found the daylight to be unpleasantly glaring), I perceived an uninterrupted stream of fantastic pictures, extraordinary shapes with intense, kaleidoscopic play of colors. After some two hours this condition faded away.” Hofmann had no idea that the experiment with the chemical compound had anything to do with this surprising effect since he was always so careful about keeping a clean workplace, and he was aware of the toxicity of ergot derivatives. However, the next day he thought that “perhaps some of the LSD solution got on my fingertips during recrystallization and a trace of the substance was absorbed into my skin.” He realized at the same time that should his conjecture hold up, this compound had unknown and very strong properties if just a trace could cause such noticeable effects.
Mystic Chemist: The Life of Albert Hofmann and His Discovery of LSD by Dieter Hagenbach & Lucius Werthmüller
Edited by s240779 (01/23/14 04:54 AM)
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Aopocetx
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779] 1
#19351170 - 12/31/13 01:26 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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William Pickard wrote an essay about the clandestine production of LSD in which he says it's common for chemists to inadvertently dose themselves. Is the LSD just splashing into their mouths? I don't see any reason he would lie especially because that wasn't the point of his essay. (William Pickard was an underground LSD manufacturer who is in prison right now. The DEA said his bust was the biggest ever but that's probably not true. It was just the biggest one they have seen.)
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s240779

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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19351210 - 12/31/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Thank you, Aopocetx. Here's one such report:
It took twenty batches. We should have done it in steps, converted all of the ergotamine to lysergic hydrazide first, then converted all of the hydrazide to pyrazole, and then just had the animation to do at the end, but once we had that first batch of hydrazide, we wanted to lake it all the way through to see if the process was going to work.
That was really a mistake, because then we had a hundred grams of acid, and as careful as we could be it got into the air, or into the glass, we never figured out. It took two more weeks to do the rest. We were high the whole time. We made two kilos.
Pharmako/Gnosis: Plant Teachers and the Poison Path. Dale Pendell (2010), p. 54
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jellyfish


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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
#19351272 - 12/31/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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If LSD is impure then it must consist of more than just LSD. No one can tell you it's safe. Look up some reactions and see what ingredients are used to make LSD. If a purification step is not performed, some reactants, catalysts etc could remain in the product. Those likely have researched health effects and they are likely not good for you.
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s240779

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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: jellyfish]
#19351293 - 12/31/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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User D.M.T. is being too presumptuous and is assuming that everything he's seen in the DEA's Microgram reports encompass the full scale of analyses of clandestine LSD.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Into The Woods]
#19351307 - 12/31/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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ok story time since that seems to be the thang around here
I dont know if thumbprints are real however I do know for a fact the ppl I knew in the 90s that laid crystal sure never took a thumbprint to get the chance to buy crystal. they just happened to be in the right place at the right time and met the right people through selling other drugs in bulk quantity. (marijuana, MDMA, ketamine, etc.)at that point in time, sheets were being laid on a show-by-show basis. usually a ten pack or more per show - different designs for every 900 hit sheet, that way u could fool ppl into thinking one design was better than the other and harder to trace exactly where it came from when teres so many designs (500 hit sheets if they measure 1cmx1cm) the ppl laying blotters were nothing more than pawns for bigger drug dealers - the guys with crystal would sell these tiny vials for $7 to 14 grand. as long as u had the cash and knew the guy it didnt matter. whoever laid the blotters then fronted the blotters to smaller suppliers who sold by the sheet, who sold to the 'street level' dealer. the fronted guys would pay them each Grateful Dead show until they eventually ripped them off and pocketed the money. then the guys laying blotter would shrug it off, threaten to kill them if they ever saw them again, and find new people to sell their doses. because I never ripped them off I still buy L off one of the guys to this day, but now only by the sheet as they've taken a serious reduction in size. just enough to fund their habit. they dont lay them now they just get whatever they find - tends to come from Canada or Europe lately.
they claimed to be 'family' and that all their L was 'family fluff'. to this day they still claim they're family but if you ask me it was just a marketing gimmick because by 2001 (a year after Pickard's bust approx.) they ran out of material and disappeared from being sizeable dealers. Couple that with the fact they said they got their crystal from Colorado (where it turns out Pickard sent his product from) it must have been Pickard's L despite whatever they said about hippies running the show. Either ChinaCat or the people I knew were lying about whoever the family was as ChinaCat claims Pickard was not family, OR the family simply doesn't exist (most likely as I know from traveling the world I came across blotter on every continent that was the same stuff)
There's absolutely no way the guys I knew had ever once seen an NMR for the crystal they were laying, they knew nothing about the chemistry behind LSD. they were just drug dealers. They knew this: you empty the vial and make a solution and dip blotter in it, done. then make shit up based on how strong it tunred out. their suppliers were using gram scales so it wasn't an even gram ever in those vials either. so the dosage varied literally every batch.
The fact is, they were several people down the chain from the chemists before the L ever reached their hands and had no idea where there L was coming from so they just made up a bunch of shit to market their blotters against the competition's. they had no idea the 'purity', they had no idea the strength of their blotter, they just knew it didn't matter because it would sell. 
that's the 90s how I remember it
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
#19351335 - 12/31/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
User D.M.T. is being too presumptuous and is assuming that everything he's seen in the DEA's Microgram reports encompass the full scale of analyses of clandestine LSD.
I sure am not. Clandestine LSD synth requires column chromotagraphy. show me a synth without it and you will see they're only based on theory and will probably destroy the end product (polymerisation, epimerisation, inversion, etc.)
iso-LSD is the only remaining impurity every synth clandestine or not because in the end you're either making LSD or not, there's no corners to skip, this isn't a simple DMT or mescaline extraction. It's serious chemistry and anyone who says otherwise is uninformed of the subject. Anything else that would appear could only be so in a very minute percentage - meaning the difference in needlepoint and white fluff would be not even 5 micrograms. If you expect an impurity to be active at that dose and only be active with LSD in its presence you better provide some evidence because conventional theory disagrees.
so if crystal quality only matters at thumbprint dose why even say it matters? 99.99% of LSD users aren't taking thumbprints. that's even less significant than any impurity itself.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
#19351354 - 12/31/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
D.M.T said: There's absolutely no way the guys I knew had ever once seen an NMR for the crystal they were laying, they knew nothing about the chemistry behind LSD.
As indicated by chinacat in LSD-Crystal to Blotter, they went by color. As you said, differnt colors does not necessarily mean psychoactive impurities, but if you look at chinacat's post, the only grade that seemed to absolutely harbor psychoactive impurities was black/champagne. So, your implication that different colors could be mere leftover pigments can in fact be supported using chinacat's literature. He doesn't establish a difference between needlepoint and any of the other grades, with the exception of champagne.
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
#19351356 - 12/31/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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It's far from nonsense; it's based on the decades of work that Dr. Nichols has done. Calling him closedminded is a disservice to a man that has done more to further the studies of LSD, and psychedelics in general, than most people in the world.
I also have a personal anecdote of transdermal LSD absorption, and it's ineffectiveness. Years ago there was an accident with liquid that led to a half vial being smeared on my face. The liquid in question was fluff crystal broken down to 100mcg per drop. Having that liquid smeared on my face had no effect whatsoever. Had I eaten that amount I would've been out of my gourd.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Dark_Star]
#19351381 - 12/31/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Dark_Star said: I also have a personal anecdote of transdermal LSD absorption, and it's ineffectiveness. Years ago there was an accident with liquid that led to a half vial being smeared on my face. The liquid in question was fluff crystal broken down to 100mcg per drop. Having that liquid smeared on my face had no effect whatsoever. Had I eaten that amount I would've been out of my gourd.
Then I can only asume it's a bioavailability issue. Probably depends on what part of the skin it gets on. Hands, which was the case with Hofmann and chinacat, lots of blood vessels and not nearly as much fat as the arm (Nick Sands) or the face (you).
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Webster10
Up like Trump


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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
#19352378 - 12/31/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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DMT, all you're doing is making assumptions about past LSD distribution that you have no basis for. You may know about the chemistry aspect of the production of LSD, but not everything can be explained with science (which you would know if you've ever taken LSD ). Give me one GOOD reason why ChinaCat72 would waste hours of his life, lieing about LSD and his role in the distribution of it on a forum where maybe 200 people would see it. You're logic is asenine and you're just in general stubborn. The definition of dumb is "the unwillingless to learn" so, by definition, you are indeed, dumb.
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TopPmz
<No Title>


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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
#19352501 - 12/31/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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In fairness, DMT's argument is based on HIS personal experience, and yours is based on a former member's experience.
-------------------- "Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"
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Webster10
Up like Trump


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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: TopPmz]
#19352569 - 12/31/13 08:02 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
TopPmz said: In fairness, DMT's argument is based on HIS personal experience, and yours is based on a former member's experience.
Are you impying that DMT has sysnthesized LSD? I would assume he hasn't. I disagree with you're statement that he is just talking from personal experience. He is trying to tell me that purity in LSD crystal doesn't matter when determining body load whilst making false assumptions about past LSD distribution. As anyone who has ever tripped knows, science cannot explain everything. DMT should take a multi milligram dose of champagne crystal and needlepoint crystal and tell me there is no difference in body load. Chinacat72 has already done this, and he says that needlepoint LSD feels clean with no body load while champagne LSD made him think he had ergot poisoning. Case closed. If he doesn't accept this, I don't know what his criteria for evidence is, but obviously it is unrealistic, especially when talking about an illegal, mostly unresearched chemical.
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D.M.T
Shroomery Contaminant


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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Webster10]
#19352885 - 12/31/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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That's not what he's saying. If you read the thread you'd see what personal experience he's talking about right here for ya brah The only assumptions made is that the L I was eating in the 90s came from Pickard - which as you can see I've strong reasons for that assumption if you actually read the thread and digest information instead of trying to push it away. you are apparently the stubborn mule.
I've given you a scientific explanation of why this whole thread is bullshit and all you can point to is some pseudoscience from a drug dealer who stopped posting seven years before you even registered.
Then you pull the old prohibitionist spiel that there's no research done on LSD - bro there's more on LSD in the academic journal than alprazolam. That's the same line of thinking that says marijuana is unresearched.
Finally you confirm your stubbornness by resorting to insults calling me dumb.
The fact is there's only so many ways LSD can be made and each and every way requires cleanliness, attention to detail, and most of all purity. there's not too many reactions that can occur without completely destroying the LSD. Clandestine or pharma - it doesn't matter because it's not like baking a cake despite what anyone might have told you.
I'm no king of L who makes it but neither is ChinaCat. I bought L off guys who were in the shoes he claims - that was what I did for a living at that point in time.. I was only making $1000 a month living in Thailand teaching English. so I used that job to save money and made money selling L. I saw more than most people but that's not even shit worth talking about. my wife doesnt even know what I did then and it shouldn't even be part of the argument since this is a chemistry discussion.
I quit all that in '01 and never looked back because at least from what I saw, this whole 'family' thing was a gimmick. these guys weren't holy saints.. the guys I bought L off never were thumbprinted to get crystal either, they just had money to buy it from selling other drugs and knew the right guys from selling other drugs. they're just a drug dealing group like any other.
I knew Bongo Boy before all the shit went down, I've seen a few ppl mention him on this forum as if he was the king of L or something.well it's true he always said he was 'family' but if the L came from Pickard (guarantee ya it did) then according to whatshisname he aint family, if he is family in a drug dealing sense I guess to me he woulda been like that rich asshole older brother. I'd be surprised if he's still in the US..
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
#19353139 - 12/31/13 11:03 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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In my opinion you didn't substantiate your position. You're simply emphasizing your knowledge of chemistry and making it sound like you have a full understanding of the topic, but if you really look into it, you're not substantiating what you're saying. You're saying that just because a crystal has color, doesn't mean it harbors active impurities. It's hard to establish whether chinacat thought the lower grades were experientially inferior. Take a look:
"light greyish crystal. Was an unbelievable amount of this around in the late eighty`s and early nineties. Very good stuff."
"One batch called quadricept amber was the color of light honey and was very good"
And yet at the same time he simply says that needlepoint was "The best of the best."
Source: chinacat72 - LSD-Crystal to Blotter (2/7/03)
Once again, purity does not necessarily mean better, as you have stated; the impurities could be trivial. Dried mushrooms are far from pure in terms of psilocybin, but that doesn't mean that there's any major benefit to isolated psilocybin. The last time I did mushrooms I didn't experience any nausea. If chinacat was asked to specify if there was an experiential difference between some of the different grades, I don't know what he would say. But chinacat specifically says that champagne, in particular, produces adverse effects -- not in the 'LSD-Crystal to Blotter' thread, but in another thread:
The one time I worked with champagne crystal I felt like I was poisoned. It was black nasty shit and I only ate a tiny speck not a thumbprint. 2/2/04 Re: LSD death
If straight ergot is being used as the starting material, it's possible for ergoline alkaloids other than the desired one to be introduced into the synthesis. And even if pharmaceutically pure ergotamine or ergocristine (or whatever they choose to use) is the starting material, it might be possible for some type of non-LSD variation to wind up in the end product. But when I say what I'm saying I'm just guessing. This can include one or several minor chemical variants of LSD that have simply never been identified as a result of the fact that it would be extremely expensive to do an analysis detailed enough. The fact of the matter is that people have reported LSD feeling dirty and LSD should never feel dirty unless the user has physical complications. Different, yes. Dirty? No.
The only thing you've provided as evidence is the fact that you've always had clean LSD and that you've read DEA microgram. That's not very good evidence, if you ask me. And you keep hinting that so much research has been done on LSD. You recently said that LSD is even more well-researched than alprazolam. But you haven't posted a single citation of a chemical analysis of street acid (how do we even know that champagne has ever been analyzed and reported? Most LSD is clean. But we need to leave open the possibility that champagne LSD exists).
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TopPmz
<No Title>


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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
#19353253 - 12/31/13 11:51 PM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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I agree that champagne crystal probably hasn't been researched much, if at all. This thread is pretty off-topic from the OP. He didn't say he plans on taking multi mg doses, so the difference at that level is totally irrelevant. He just wants to know if its worse for you in the long term. Idk the answer scientifically, but I stand by my original response that it probably won't, it'll just be less potent, and maybe give a lesser experience.
-------------------- "Freedom Isn't Free" is only half correct. True freedom doesn't exist in the society we exist in. What the saying really means is "The Illusion of Freedom Isn't Free"
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Webster10
Up like Trump


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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: D.M.T]
#19353667 - 01/01/14 04:08 AM (10 years, 30 days ago) |
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DMT, with your and lucid toast's logic I could just say, "You're a bored 17 year old and just a retired drug dealer". You say there isn't much room for error or impuriry using any synthesis method yet you say all the crystal you tested was 68% pure. Which one is it . You call me a stubborn mule and then sat that I'm stubborn because I insulted you . You seem to have a general understanding of the chemistry behind LSD production but you seem to discredit any spiritual aspect of LSD; saying the "family" is nothing more than greedy drug dealers. Could I ask you how much you purchased a gram of crystal for? Did the "family" charge you an overly excessive amount? Didn't think so. I will again state that ChinaCat72 talks from experience of taking a multi milligram dose of pure crystal and impure crystal and says there was a noticeable difference in body load. Someone could learn EVERYTHING there is to know about how LSD reacts with your brain but until one took it themself, a caveman who HAS taken LSD would be able to more accurately describe an LSD experience. So saying Chinacat72 is unreliable because he is a drug dealer is a rediculous claim that is clearly false. Again, why would Chinacat lie? What would he gain from this? What is the largest dose of champagne you've ever taken?
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Edited by Webster10 (01/01/14 04:09 AM)
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
#19359629 - 01/02/14 04:59 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Look at this:
At burning man he knowingly gave away a really bad batch of LSD; you know the muddy black stuff. It caused several people to go into convulsions.
Krystle Cole speaking about Todd Skinner. Interviewed by James Kent.
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast]
#19359751 - 01/02/14 05:21 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Quote:
Lucid Toast said: Name of the thread says it ~can dirty black lsd crystal do damage?
Please guys I don't want to turn into a glass of orange juice 
Thanks in Advanced guys!
I can't see why it would be had for you. Assuming you did take 3000UG of it and it was 100% impurities thats still only 3mg of contaminants, roughly 2 cafergot headache pills worth of ergot impurities. Even that would be entirely harmless and it might take away your headache if you had one too. I think its just common for people to exagerate any ill feeling they have when they trip, or focus exclusivly on it until they become obcessed with it. So yes, even the worst black crystal that was entirely effectless could do you no harm, and might even fix your headache.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
#19360403 - 01/02/14 07:39 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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There's currently someone posting on Reddit who claims to have made LSD in his university lab. Thanks to StoryTeller for posting this on The Shroomery (http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19357617). This individual addresses bad acid:
Only ~30% of the the crude product is LSD, the rest are these inactive isomers and some side reaction products as well. These impurities are only inactive in the brain, they have many effects on the body that contribute to the "body load" or "roughness" of the trip. I am certain that "bad acid" is unpurified crude product, containing a mixture of the aforementioned molecules and LSD. Acid needs to be purified via chromatography twice, once on silica to remove the side reaction products and leftover reactants, and a second time using a chiral substrate to separate the active isomers from the inactive ones. Large, professional labs could easily accomplish this, but smaller, less professional labs might forgo this and create what you call "bad acid".
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Lucid Toast
Suggestion expert



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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: s240779]
#19361299 - 01/02/14 11:21 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Hmmph!
-------------------- You have to let it go neo, fear, doubt. Disbelief
"The menu is not the meal." Alan watts “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” Bill Hicks
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hmmn


Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 372
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Re: Can champagne/black xtal hurt you over time? [Re: Lucid Toast] 1
#19361383 - 01/02/14 11:46 PM (10 years, 28 days ago) |
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Yeah...I haven't seen any scientific evidence posted by you in this thread, DM. I think you know less than you believe on this topic and would do well to listen and reflect.
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