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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19337164 - 12/28/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Ever present perfection?  What exactly does that mean?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Registered: 08/19/12
Posts: 2,348
Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: Deviate]
    #19337206 - 12/28/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

so sudden liberation is achieved by grace but gradual liberation is achieved by one's own free will/seeking? no, I don't think so. grace is what kills you (the seeker who who engages in spiritual practices) in both cases.  spiritual practice/seeking may happen but it does not affect grace.


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: mt cleverest]
    #19339371 - 12/28/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mt cleverest said:
so sudden liberation is achieved by grace but gradual liberation is achieved by one's own free will/seeking? no, I don't think so. grace is what kills you (the seeker who who engages in spiritual practices) in both cases.  spiritual practice/seeking may happen but it does not affect grace.





Grace is the cause of perseverance in spiritual practices. All is grace. Though it would be wrong to say that spiritual practice cause liberation, they tend to precede it.


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: Icelander]
    #19340627 - 12/29/13 08:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Ever present perfection?  What exactly does that mean?




it implies that that which is ever present is perfect

that perfection can never result from any action we take, as it is already here

that my best shot at it now, always a miss...


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19340673 - 12/29/13 08:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Then why the need for this forum?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: Icelander]
    #19340681 - 12/29/13 08:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yes, if perfection already is, why the need for anything, why does anything exist?

why not?

i get what you could be hinting at though, if 'ever present perfection' was truly perfect then nothing would exist

and i thoroughly agree with that


--------------------


Edited by Chronic7 (12/29/13 08:50 AM)


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: Deviate]
    #19340778 - 12/29/13 09:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Grace is the cause of perseverance in spiritual practices.  All is grace.  Though it would be wrong to say that spiritual practice cause liberation, they tend to precede it.



I think that's well said.

"Grace," for me, is a biological concept.  I am "graced" by a biology that will permit me to live to age 100, or not.  I am "graced" by a biology that, when I meditate or take LSD, permits me to glimpse what lies behind the doors of my normal, waking consciousness.  Or not.

If you meditate and experience expanded awareness, that's only because your biology permits it.  Plenty of people try meditation and get nowhere.  If you take LSD and see God, that's only because your biology permits it.  Plenty of people take LSD and have unpleasant or horrible experiences.

Quote:

Icelander said:
Then why the need for this forum?



There's no "need" for this forum.  There's no "need" to practice religion or spirituality of any kind.  No one is keeping score.  There's no heaven or hell.  We do these things because they bring us comfort and relieve our suffering.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: Chronic7]
    #19341056 - 12/29/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
yes, if perfection already is, why the need for anything, why does anything exist?

why not?

i get what you could be hinting at though, if 'ever present perfection' was truly perfect then nothing would exist

and i thoroughly agree with that






Well what I'm saying is why the need for any talk about spiritualism and all the practices?  There is nothing to do as it's all done.  Sounds like a good deal to me.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19341059 - 12/29/13 11:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Grace is the cause of perseverance in spiritual practices.  All is grace.  Though it would be wrong to say that spiritual practice cause liberation, they tend to precede it.



I think that's well said.

"Grace," for me, is a biological concept.  I am "graced" by a biology that will permit me to live to age 100, or not.  I am "graced" by a biology that, when I meditate or take LSD, permits me to glimpse what lies behind the doors of my normal, waking consciousness.  Or not.

If you meditate and experience expanded awareness, that's only because your biology permits it.  Plenty of people try meditation and get nowhere.  If you take LSD and see God, that's only because your biology permits it.  Plenty of people take LSD and have unpleasant or horrible experiences.

Quote:

Icelander said:
Then why the need for this forum?



There's no "need" for this forum.  There's no "need" to practice religion or spirituality of any kind.  No one is keeping score.  There's no heaven or hell.  We do these things because they bring us comfort and relieve our suffering.





I wish that was more apparent. I see these things mostly freaking people out.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: all this beauty] * 1
    #19341172 - 12/29/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said: am "graced" by a biology that, when I meditate or take LSD, permits me to glimpse what lies behind the doors of my normal, waking consciousness.  Or not.

If you meditate and experience expanded awareness, that's only because your biology permits it.  Plenty of people try meditation and get nowhere.  If you take LSD and see God, that's only because your biology permits it.  Plenty of people take LSD and have unpleasant or horrible experiences.






This is such profound crap imho.  Leary, Metzner, & Alpert replicated therapeutic trip sessions again and again, and it had nothing to do with with biology permitting it.  It had everything to do with how virtually everyone is totally fucking suggestible, and that's why a seasoned vet to acid can guide somebody else's trip, much like hypnotherapist can induce a trance state.  It's a matter of practice, but you can learn to do it for yourself - the right mindset, setting, and a few key words can help you trust in the potentiality of your own nervous system and the billion year old life process, which is essentially all one needs to have a positive trip.... but you go ahead and believe your biology was specially graced :thumbdown:.

edit: OTOH, I totally agree with this:





There's no "need" for this forum.  There's no "need" to practice religion or spirituality of any kind.  No one is keeping score.  There's no heaven or hell.  We do these things because they bring us comfort and relieve our suffering.





--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Edited by CosmicJoke (12/29/13 12:54 PM)


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19341479 - 12/29/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
This is such profound crap imho.  Leary, Metzner, & Alpert replicated therapeutic trip sessions again and again, and it had nothing to do with with biology permitting it.  It had everything to do with how virtually everyone is totally fucking suggestible, and that's why a seasoned vet to acid can guide somebody else's trip, much like hypnotherapist can induce a trance state.  It's a matter of practice, but you can learn to do it for yourself - the right mindset, setting, and a few key worlds can help you trust in the potentiality of your own nervous system and the billion year old life process, which is essentially all one needs to have a positive trip.... but you go ahead and believe your biology was specially graced :thumbdown:.



The requirement for "a few key worlds" seems severe, CosmicJoke.  The American space exploration program is pretty advanced, but not that advanced yet.

Me thinks you're guilty of the crime of "wishful thinking," my friend.  The literature does not support your conclusion that everyone is capable of having THE ENCOUNTER WITH GOD (THE EWG) on LSD, provided their mindset and the physical setting are "correct."

Have you tripped with a lot of people in your lifetime?  I have, and I'm here to report that however good the setting and the mindset, not everyone has what I understand to be THE EWG.

Of course, if your idea of THE EWG is bright lights and the uncanny ability to hear the neighbors three floors above you flushing their toilets... then yeah, I get ya.

But... that's not what I'm talking about. :wink:


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: all this beauty] * 1
    #19341676 - 12/29/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That was a typo.  I meant "words" and had corrected it at 11:54am, 16 minutes before you posted, but okay, ya got me. :ohwell:

You ended the statement contrasting that others had "plenty of unpleasant or horrible experiences", which implied to me that their negative experiences had something to do with them being biologically different, in which case I'd only say that approximates some truth if they had some sort of profound brain disorder like schizophrenia.  This has less to do with your biological grace or specialness, and far more to do with a smaller subset of people having been dealt a seriously shitty biological hand, which the majority of people haven't been. 

Unless you're a psychologist trained in psychedelic psychotherapy, forgive me if I'm skeptical of your assessment of who had the right set and setting for a therapeutic experience.  These variables will need more control based on one's general level of emotional maturity, experience with drugs, dosage etc., some will need far more planning tailored to their needs than others.

Since there is no proof of God, I think I'll dismiss everything you say as hogwash. Some of the most cosmic motherfuckers in existence were entirely model agnostic (refer to Robert Anton Wilson), myself included as model agnostic.  Sure, I've experienced reality tunnels where I've perceived reality as though All is One, jacked into a Cosmic Supercomputer, and that can be a damned valuable reality tunnel to occasion, but I think these experiences were largely inspired by reading Watts & Huxley (and later Ram Dass etc.), and spending several sessions prior doing nothing but eliminating mental chatter and tension, than my biological uniqueness. The mystical experience could also be a hallucinatory fabrication designed to cope with death anxiety, as Icelander has suggested.  Just because it's the most sane, meaningful experience of one's life, doesn't mean it's ultimately in accordance with fact or reality.

Then again, since your guru has deemed that you were a specially capable of discerning who has had an ENCOUNTER WITH GOD (strangely fanatical caps there), perhaps you are correct in your assertion that you have a special biology. :imspecial:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Edited by CosmicJoke (12/29/13 02:35 PM)


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Offlineall this beauty
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Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19341936 - 12/29/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
You ended the statement contrasting that others had "plenty of unpleasant or horrible experiences", which implied to me that their negative experiences had something to do with them being biologically different, in which case I'd only say that approximates some truth if they had some sort of profound brain disorder like schizophrenia.



We're all biologically different.  Some of us have a talent for music, some don't.  Some can sing like angels, some can't.  Some write poetry, some will never write poetry.  It is -- in my opinion -- 90 percent biology and 10 percent environment.

Does that mean those who can are "better" or "superior" to those who can't?  Of course not.

You're trying desperately to read otherwise into my posts, but it ain't there, buddy.

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
This has less to do with your biological grace or specialness, and far more to do with a smaller subset of people having been dealt a seriously shitty biological hand, which the majority of people haven't been.



Well I wouldn't call it a "shitty biological hand," but I think it's fair to call it a "different biological hand."

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Since there is no proof of God, I think I'll dismiss everything you say as hogwash.



If you've ever read any of my other posts in this forum (can't blame you if you haven't -- I bore even myself sometimes), you'd know I'm not a theist either.  I referred to "God" in the above post in a purely metaphorical sense.

Totally went over your head, it seems.  lol.

Substitute "ENCOUNTER WITH GOD" with "ENCOUNTER WITH COSMIC CONSCIOUSNESS," if that helps you love me more.  :wink:

This is a forum dedicated to "spirituality and mysticism," yes?  So it's reasonable to discuss chemically-induced journeys of the spiritual / mystical kind, right?

But then again, you may still be thinking in terms of the pretty flashing lights and the "hearing the toilets flushing" phenomenon referenced above -- in which case what we have here, son, is a serious failure to communicate. :wink:


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19342339 - 12/29/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Of course it's reasonable to discuss drug induced mystical experiences, but I've yet to encounter evidence that they're only privy to those with a biological predisposition for them.  Can you point me to any literature on psychedelic studies that indicates this, or is this merely your opinion?  If so, I'll discard that opinion and substitute what evidence there is,  as in my experience basically everyone who has an interest in spirituality and drops acid "finds God".

What the thinker thinks, the prover proves.

Now it's a matter of discretion as to whether they've had "true" "EWG"or just saw some pretty colors and are playacting, which I guess we'll just have to leave to you decide, after all, your guru said you're good at it. :smirk:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Offlineall this beauty
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Registered: 02/13/13
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Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19342435 - 12/29/13 04:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
...as in my experience basically everyone who has an interest in spirituality and drops acid "finds God".



Lol.  Once again, we're probably talking about two entirely different things.

So the fundamentalist terrorist bomber who destroys skyscrapers because his "God" told him to...  when he drops acid, he has a "spiritual / mystical" experience?

Lol.  Whatever.

Peace to you, CosmicJoke.  :wink:


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: all this beauty]
    #19342506 - 12/29/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
...as in my experience basically everyone who has an interest in spirituality and drops acid "finds God".



Lol.  Once again, we're probably talking about two entirely different things.

So the fundamentalist terrorist bomber who destroys skyscrapers because his "God" told him to...  when he drops acid, he has a "spiritual / mystical" experience?

Lol.  Whatever.

Peace to you, CosmicJoke.  :wink:




Well, I'm sure the terrorist thinks he did, but that's certainly not part of my spiritual, mystical reality tunnel, which is phenomenologically loving and ecstatic in nature, like a William Blake poem.  I'd argue that such a reality tunnel is better than a hater's, but not necessarily better than say a skeptic's, or in any way indicative of ultimate Reality with a capital R - it's just useful, and that's what I mean by model agnostic.

Again, I see no reason to believe my experiences have been biologically mandated, just as I don't see a fundamentalist terrorist as having a biological gift for hating.  Though I did take to entheogens like a duck to water, I'd attribute my positive experience largely to having researched them, read psychedelic literature, dreamt about them, and yearned for them for months and months before actually finding a hook up for some doses.  For others it may take some more time and work.  Some people may have a gift for singing, yet others get quite good at it by practicing every day. :shrug:  Others yet, who didn't benefit from the trip, may find in a decade or two of maturing that they now experience it in an entirely new way. 

As far as biology goes (and this is only a model to understand consciousness, and not a matter of science itself), I think of the mystical experience as a latent circuit of the brain which most humans have the potential to activate.  This was evident to me on some levels prior to the Big Trips, as I had only had modest skills at visualizing as a painter, but within a couple hours of my first acid trip I was lost within ecstatic visuals that I preferred to Escher or Dali, but you go ahead and reduce my experiences to that of a Spencer's Gifts store if that's your prerogative.

Plus, how do you explain all of the positive research done by MAPS using psychedelics to treat PTSD, OCD, treating those suffering depression and anxiety from terminal illnesses, etc.  Do you really think all of these people just so happened to have the pro-psychedelic genetics, and they just conveniently exclude all evidence of those who did not?  I'm still searching for a good reason to agree with you, but I'm coming up short.  As of now, it kind of seems like you're saying because some children have a knack for the arts at an early age, some adults must have a genetic predisposition for successful trips too, which explains all the bad trips out there.  This is crap, as I'm capable of showing reasonable evidence for myriads of other reasons for bad trips that have nothing to do with genetics. The only bad trips I know that there's an established relationship with in such regards are those suffering from psychosis.

~~~~

--> I just want to add that I agree with you in about schizophrenics only having a different biological hand.  I in no means want to make schizophrenic people feel less valued or less belonging or even different in this world, in the sense that they have far more in common, just as we all do, than  differences, so I totally see your point there. :thumbup:  But maybe even a schizophrenic could wind up more 'enlightened' than the moon child, genetically dank nug fuck, even if that enlightenment wasn't obtained through psychedelics. :shrug:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Edited by CosmicJoke (12/30/13 01:21 AM)


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InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: Icelander]
    #19344773 - 12/30/13 03:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

The Chronic said:
yes, if perfection already is, why the need for anything, why does anything exist?

why not?

i get what you could be hinting at though, if 'ever present perfection' was truly perfect then nothing would exist

and i thoroughly agree with that






Well what I'm saying is why the need for any talk about spiritualism and all the practices?  There is nothing to do as it's all done.  Sounds like a good deal to me.




We need to talk about it and look at it because we so easily believe there is something to do

If someone wants peace, which is here all along, but they keep thinking its not here, then they won't find peace in their experience

Ultimately it doesn't matter if they do or don't find peace, but i'd be willing to bet it matters to them & their experience


--------------------


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19344904 - 12/30/13 04:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

CosmicJoke said:
...as in my experience basically everyone who has an interest in spirituality and drops acid "finds God".



Lol.  Once again, we're probably talking about two entirely different things.

So the fundamentalist terrorist bomber who destroys skyscrapers because his "God" told him to...  when he drops acid, he has a "spiritual / mystical" experience?

Lol.  Whatever.

Peace to you, CosmicJoke.  :wink:




Well, I'm sure the terrorist thinks he did, but that's certainly not part of my spiritual, mystical reality tunnel, which is phenomenologically loving and ecstatic in nature, like a William Blake poem.  I'd argue that such a reality tunnel is better than a hater's, but not necessarily better than say a skeptic's, or in any way indicative of ultimate Reality with a capital R - it's just useful, and that's what I mean by model agnostic.

Again, I see no reason to believe my experiences have been biologically mandated, just as I don't see a fundamentalist terrorist as having a biological gift for hating.  Though I did take to entheogens like a duck to water, I'd attribute my positive experience largely to having researched them, read psychedelic literature, dreamt about them, and yearned for them for months and months before actually finding a hook up for some doses.  For others it may take some more time and work.  Some people may have a gift for singing, yet others get quite good at it by practicing every day. :shrug:  Others yet, who didn't benefit from the trip, may find in a decade or two of maturing that they now experience it in an entirely new way. 

As far as biology goes (and this is only a model to understand consciousness, and not a matter of science itself), I think of the mystical experience as a latent circuit of the brain which most humans have the potential to activate.  This was evident to me on some levels prior to the Big Trips, as I had only had modest skills at visualizing as a painter, but within a couple hours of my first acid trip I was lost within ecstatic visuals that I preferred to Escher or Dali, but you go ahead and reduce my experiences to that of a Spencer's Gifts store if that's your prerogative.

Plus, how do you explain all of the positive research done by MAPS using psychedelics to treat PTSD, OCD, treating those suffering depression and anxiety from terminal illnesses, etc.  Do you really think all of these people just so happened to have the pro-psychedelic genetics, and they just conveniently exclude all evidence of those who did not?  I'm still searching for a good reason to agree with you, but I'm coming up short.  As of now, it kind of seems like you're saying because some children have a knack for the arts at an early age, some adults must have a genetic predisposition for successful trips too, which explains all the bad trips out there.  This is crap, as I'm capable of showing reasonable evidence for myriads of other reasons for bad trips that have nothing to do with genetics. The only bad trips I know that there's an established relationship with in such regards are those suffering from psychosis.

~~~~

--> I just want to add that I agree with you in about schizophrenics only having a different biological hand.  I in no means want to make schizophrenic people feel less valued or less belonging or even different in this world, in the sense that they have far more in common, just as we all do, than  differences, so I totally see your point there. :thumbup:  But maybe even a schizophrenic could wind up more 'enlightened' than the moon child, genetically dank nug fuck, even if that enlightenment wasn't obtained through psychedelics. :shrug:




Thank you for pointing this out. I got into a debate with all this beauty over biological determism in another thread.  I dont really understand his point of view but he seems to think genetics determine everything, when its very clear that environment is important also.


For instance in this thread he said he talked about it being your biological destiny to attain enlightenment. I think his statement would be a lot more correct if he would simply eliminate the word "biological" from it, which does not nothing but introduce confusion in this situation, as I hardly think he has any real evidence that enlightenment is genetically determined.

In terms of destiny, yes, he is certainly correct that some people will get an enligtenment/God experience very easily when dropping acid or mushroom while some other won't no matter what you do.

I mean just look at icelander, he is the perfect example and quite the egigma to me. He is obviously intelligent, is old enough to have gained wisdom through experience, has used a lot of psychedelics and was even a Christian at one point and yet he has never encountered God. He's been posting here so long too and yet he still just doesn't get it. He asks questions which make me wonder whether he has even read Buddhism 101. I mean, he even has to ask what the ever present perfection is (it's the eternal being of course).

So he is an example of someone who seems to be determined in some way not to get it and in his case, environment seems unable to change that as is environment has been very favorable and conductive toward producing an encounter with the Lord of Hosts (Christianity, psychedelics, interest in spirituality and mysticism, old age, intelligence and association with the intelligent spiritual people via this forum). To me, it is difficult to understand how someone can have all these things going for them and still not be able to find enlightenment nor the Lord of Heaven's Armies, the Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.


All this Beauty views Icelander's apparent lack of gnostic experiences as strictly biological or genetic. These seems to make sense given all the opportunity icelander has had. However, as I believe you pointed out Timothy Leary's early research suggested that environment could influence this also. Someone who was guided during their LSD session was more likely to experience transcendence or "Non game ecstasy" as Leary called it, than someone who was dropping acid all alone, with no particular purpose in mind.

So as usual, its a combination of biology and environment. What do you get when you add biology plus environment? You get life. Its LIFE that determines it. What a strange concept. You see the way I look at it, life isn't determined by something else. Life is determined by life. When it comes to enlightenment, your biology matters, your environment matters, your decisions matter, your spiritual practices matter because they are all connected, or none of them matter because they are all connected. You see? You can look at it either way. Either everything comes together to bring enlightenment or nothing does and it just happens or doesn't.

Anyway, its interesting we have this discussion in this thread because this is something Tony Parsons has actually helped to understand, how enlightenment ocfurs.

BAsically, bondage in his words is a contracted energy. This explains why its possible to see through the illusion of the ego quite clearly and then get caught back in it again. Until the contracted energy has departed from your organism, you are going to continually fall into the snares of the ego.

Biological transofmrations are ultimately expressions of and transformations of energy. Thats what it comes down to folks, energy, the primordial intelligence, the Tao, the blessed Trinity.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Registered: 04/05/00
Posts: 10,848
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Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: Deviate]
    #19344971 - 12/30/13 04:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Man, something Ice told me in a :pm: earlier, and I don't really care if my sharing is appropriate or not, but he said " But we all have a cross to bear and I'm not seeing his life as any harder than yours or mine ultimately.  It's just how skilful we handle the situation. We are all in the soup, right?"

And it all makes freakish sense to me right now reading your post, where I'm totally in concurrence and you're rubbing the wrong way almost sentence by sentence.... All of our reality tunnels here are revealing some truths and concealing others.

Le fuck. :haha:


--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Is it possible that Tony Parsons is ignorantly spreading misinformation? [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19345121 - 12/30/13 06:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yes its all in how skillfully we handle the situation, what happens in our lives is really of little to no consequence. the more enlightened you become, the more realize it doesnt matter at all what happens. Lol.

Its all a cosmic joke see (love that username btw) and the more enlightened you become, the funnier the joke becomes and the more farce like human behavior looks.

I mean sometimes I feel like I have to hand it to guys like Jesus and Ramana Maharshi for teaching instead of just laughing at how ridiculous it all is, although even that can be a teaching as in the case of the laughing Buddha. LOl, its all so hilarious and wonderful. I love the spiritual path and I love God.


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