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OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
variation in psychedelic perception
    #1933996 - 09/20/03 12:42 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I see this as a very telling thing. we all have different perception in our normal states, but it seems magnified enormously during the trip.

we don't see the same things at all. this is made so very clear by this message board, and also has been made clear to me as I grow apart from the friend (my age, general circumstances, amount of experience, context, etc) who I started tripping with.

we didn't find the same things in the trip. all he does is laugh and fuck his good intentioned but mindless girlfriend. he thinks it's "tantric". I don't even think he believes it, even though I doubt he has any idea about what "tantra" is outside of the reference from the moive "go".

anyway, my point is that.. lots of philosophers are positing ideas about self consciousness without ever being really aware of non ordinary states of self awareness (and non ordinary awareness in general). many of them may have some inkling of the non ordinary, sport, love, dance, etc, but not in the empirical manner that seems to be the food of philosophy... it's like everyone is just trying to explain the ordinary self... without guessing that the way to go about it is to get out of it so you can look in.

anyway, I'm in this epistemology class, and we've come to this point of defining a hallucination.. and the class (sans me) agrees that a hallucination is what the statistically deviant see when the vast majority doesn't. this is the only satisfactory definition, but it doesn't come close to satisfying me, nor would it ANY sensitive person, much less a psychedelic drug user.

so... my question is why do you think that we "see" different things in the trip? this sounds pompus, but in a way isn't this a virtual litmus test of sensitivity?

is this what this site is about?


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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Anonymous

Re: variation in psychedelic perception [Re: Malachi]
    #1934095 - 09/20/03 01:49 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Depends.


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InvisibleLazerouth
Drunkard

Registered: 10/16/00
Posts: 1,091
Loc: England
Re: variation in psychedelic perception [Re: ]
    #1934171 - 09/20/03 02:15 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

ehh its not really relevent but...

when i smoked salvia it really altered my perception an changed me forever. but now i feel like i cant relate to anyone. no one is on my level not even other tripsters. makes me feel real lonely.

i dont quite understand what your asking when you say see do you mean the hallucinations themselves or our psychological outlook?


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OfflineMalachi
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Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: variation in psychedelic perception [Re: Lazerouth]
    #1934273 - 09/20/03 02:49 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I mean both. not so much "psychological" but an amalgam of both mind and body and spirit, "consciousness" for shorthand.

for some people these drugs are consciousness raising/ producing/ serve as a vantage point/etc, for others they aren't/don't.

my question is what other than some inborn "sensitivity" or "creativity" could this distinction be a product of? and if this is so, doesn't it mean that this normally ethereal/unverifiable quality that we call "creativity" is now somewhat testable? that this could be a huge reason why the powers that be are so afraid of these drugs? that there could become a standard by which all the "dull" people would be judged?

they can currently cling to the pretensions of "credentials" or testable "intelligence" (really just a measure of regurgitation) but in a world of definable creativity, this would not be the case. sure, artistic work is already a measure of creativity, but it's too "subjective". the reaction to a chemical is also subjective, but the starting point, the jumping off point, is equal for all, objective.

as in all social circles, once a standard is recognized everyone strives to adhere to it. so this would leave many many people out in the proverbial cold.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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