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Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints



Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 2,141
Loc: Everywhere
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What drives the creation of living systems? 1
#19338745 - 12/28/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Living systems differ from non-living systems in one crucial aspect, the creation of order. All "dead" systems tend towards a maximum entropy, maximum disorder. All living systems are however moving towards a point of minimum entropy. They are intricately organized down to the molecular level.
Now this organization of life does not violate the second law of thermodynamics because the system is importing energy and organization and dissipating heat and high entropy molecules. So it becomes a local reduction in entropy.
So how is it that a cell can direct its molecules to form more and more order? Why do reactions in living systems always produce more order and in dead systems always more chaos?
How could a dead system become living?
Food for thought...
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/negentr.php
Quote:
These observations are consistent with the idea that the living system is one coherent 'photon field' bound to living matter. This photon field is maintained far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and is coherent simultaneously in a whole range of frequencies that are nonetheless coupled together to give, in effect, a single degree of freedom. This means that random energy input to any frequency will become delocalized over all frequencies, precisely as predicted in a system in which energy is stored and mobilized over all space-time domains.
Matter in living systems appears to be controlled by a could of photons which direct the energy distribution of the organism.
Interesting....
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: Cannashroom]
#19338765 - 12/28/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Biocentrism is one explanation.
Quote:
Biocentric universe (from Greek: βίος, bios, "life"; and κέντρον, kentron, "center") — also known as biocentrism — is a concept proposed in 2007 by American doctor of medicine Robert Lanza, a scientist in the fields of regenerative medicine and biology,[1][2][3] which sees biology as the central driving science in the universe, and an understanding of the other sciences as reliant on a deeper understanding of biology. Biocentrism states that life and biology are central to being, reality, and the cosmos — life creates the universe rather than the other way around. It asserts that current theories of the physical world do not work, and can never be made to work, until they fully account for life and consciousness. While physics is considered fundamental to the study of the universe, and chemistry fundamental to the study of life, biocentrism claims that scientists will need to place biology before the other sciences to produce a theory of everything.[4]
Critics have questioned whether the theory is falsifiable. Lanza has claimed that future experiments, such as scaled-up quantum superposition, will either support or contradict the theory.[5]
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: Cannashroom]
#19338797 - 12/28/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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One could see the question in terms of energy economy. Living systems emerge naturally from "goldilocks" zones where entropy is present and significant but not predominant.
In the case of life on earth, it probably took a sudden discharge of entropy-- such as that caused by a lightning strike (or a series of lightning strikes) in the carbon-rich oceans of the young earth-- to result in the formation of the amino acid chains that would eventually go on to combine with one another in arrangements that would be reproduced from the raw materials surrounding them.
For life as we know it to emerge from "inert" matter, that matter must be scrambled repeatedly between periods of relative and consistent stability.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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NotTheDevil
Transhuman


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 5,436
Loc: US
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: Cannashroom] 1
#19338831 - 12/28/13 08:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cannashroom said: Living systems differ from non-living systems in one crucial aspect, the creation of order. All "dead" systems tend towards a maximum entropy, maximum disorder. All living systems are however moving towards a point of minimum entropy. They are intricately organized down to the molecular level.
Now this organization of life does not violate the second law of thermodynamics because the system is importing energy and organization and dissipating heat and high entropy molecules. So it becomes a local reduction in entropy.
So how is it that a cell can direct its molecules to form more and more order? Why do reactions in living systems always produce more order and in dead systems always more chaos?
How could a dead system become living?
Food for thought...
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/negentr.php
Quote:
These observations are consistent with the idea that the living system is one coherent 'photon field' bound to living matter. This photon field is maintained far from thermodynamic equilibrium, and is coherent simultaneously in a whole range of frequencies that are nonetheless coupled together to give, in effect, a single degree of freedom. This means that random energy input to any frequency will become delocalized over all frequencies, precisely as predicted in a system in which energy is stored and mobilized over all space-time domains.
Matter in living systems appears to be controlled by a could of photons which direct the energy distribution of the organism.
Interesting....
What's more complicated a cat or a rock? The order of living things is disorder of matter.
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something cool
meandering

Registered: 01/30/12
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: Cannashroom]
#19338870 - 12/28/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've been known to, on occasion.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: NotTheDevil]
#19338877 - 12/28/13 08:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Exactly. The extremes of order and disorder both tend to homogenize matter. Which is more "alive", the core of the sun or a black hole? They're both basically amorphous and unchanging on the time scale of living systems. It's somewhere in the middle that the diversity required by life is allowed to exist.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Sophistic Radiance (12/28/13 09:13 PM)
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: something cool]
#19338887 - 12/28/13 08:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
something cool said: I've been known to, on occasion.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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KingKnowledge
Around



Registered: 03/30/13
Posts: 2,876
Loc: East Coast
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Interesting concept. I often wonder about how living systems began to form. A bit too "unknown" of a topic for me to get into though, I could theorize for ages.
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Shpongle1



Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3,163
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: KingKnowledge]
#19339156 - 12/28/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Read the book The Web of Life. A lot of it applies directly to everything in this thread. I had it recommended to me by a friend when I asked a similar question so I read it, and I enjoyed it.
-------------------- There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined. Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens.
- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.
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Alexestalex
fallen angel


Registered: 03/20/12
Posts: 5,644
Loc: heart of the sun
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: Cannashroom]
#19339271 - 12/28/13 10:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you study molecular biology like me, you'll understand how a single fertilized egg begins to organize itself to create order and polarity in order to form a fully functioning organism. It's fucking incredible stuff, god I love science.
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Stay far from timid, only make moves when your heart's in it.
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: Cannashroom] 2
#19339287 - 12/28/13 10:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ambiguity of course!
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teamkiller
ghetto drama whore



Registered: 06/06/11
Posts: 8,806
Last seen: 3 months, 12 days
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: cez]
#19339333 - 12/28/13 10:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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uh what. How do living systems have less entropy. I may not know what i'm talking about, but that seems a stupid assertion.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
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Last seen: 7 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: teamkiller]
#19339349 - 12/28/13 10:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Non living systems order themselves all the time. The ripples of sand on a beach, the accretion of matter to form planets or crystals. The stratification of sediments. Water droplets. Oil slicks.. Yadda yadda...
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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greenspectral
Gutter Monk


Registered: 10/27/09
Posts: 1,992
Loc: Chonyid
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: Cannashroom]
#19339373 - 12/28/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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define 'dead system' define entropy
what about Chaos theory ?
you see the problem here? or is it just me?? 
-------------------- http://soundcloud.com/greenspectral ; <---original electrik muziq
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LiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

Registered: 09/04/01
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Re: What drives the creation of living systems? [Re: Cannashroom] 1
#19344401 - 12/30/13 12:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Remember that stock you kept telling everyone was on the rise and that everyone should invest in it?
It's done nothing but nose dive for the past year since your claims.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=CBIS+Interactive#symbol=cbis;range=6m;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;
-------------------- "Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers. Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts. Who smokes tha blunts? We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back
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