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OfflineStarskii
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What makes tripping spiritual?
    #19338685 - 12/28/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Tom Leary was an atheist and then he tripped a fuck-ton and turned into a religious guy apparently. But, in my experiences I am a non-religious and my trips seem to reinforce my atheist ideology on the Universe, although I have been opened up to the idea that the Universe itself is a God in a way. But at the same time, we are all the Universe because we exist within it's confines. I just wanted to have a serious conversation on your spiritual experiences on L and if you think they were caused by your general set or if they were genuinely a spiritual experience?


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Starskii] * 2
    #19338867 - 12/28/13 08:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Psychedelics allow us to think outside of our programming.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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Offlineflipcode
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Starskii]
    #19338894 - 12/28/13 09:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm an ADD lab-rat from the '80s that got kicked out of Catholic school in 3rd grade and grew up with a Harold Camping following father--so..  I always questioned everything--possibly part of the whole ADD thing, I just didn't take the program like everyone else.
I can say that the first time I did LSD--I was 17 and already experienced pot, drink, pcp, but thought of LSD as a process of selling my soul-before my first trip.
I remember my early spiritual experiences as visualizing planets as atoms in a larger--living structure. I thought of humans as ants (timy in importance to the system, etc.) I also thought of planets as cells and humans as viruses or cures, but I still to this day cannot state which one makes more sense. Are we here to help heal this organism (earth) or to destroy it and hop to another (planet). There are a million thoughts that weave in and out of this concept and I could fill a boring library going deeper into my experiences.
I'm pretty sure it's different for everyone--life is strange and mostly unanswered, religion is a man-made attempt at controlling or understanding it, man will continue to seek answers to things that we're possibly not supposed to know the answers to--because were merely ants in importance to it all. Finding new ways to understand life--whether it's fact or fiction--is part of our nature.

I'm Agnostic now and basically serve Karma for my reasoning purposes. I don't think that tripping forced this path, but it made sense on my journey. To each his/her own! :laugh:


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Edited by flipcode (12/28/13 09:02 PM)


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19338935 - 12/28/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Psychedelics allow us to think outside of our programming.




I like to say it removes you from the human restrained perspective.


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OfflineDeemstar
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19339125 - 12/28/13 09:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I was a firm atheist before my first psychedelic experience now I'm an agnostic if you want to put a label on it.

I believe the universe is truly one consciousness divided amongst itself, expressed in infinite varieties and variables. Psychedelics can allow me to tune into and experience this oneness in brief moments of infinity. They also have offered glimpses into the fabric of reality and the inner workings of my mind.

They also make me very grateful to be alive and human because I can experience such radical changes in consciousness. 

So yeah.. That's how psychedelics have helped me become somewhat comfortably spiritually in such a mad world.


--------------------
Gnome-miii-odd
JAH!!! Pasta-far-eye!:bigblunt:
R.I.P. Georgie poor G
A.K.A. Jorgon Lucy


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OfflineAgentchewy
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Deemstar]
    #19339214 - 12/28/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)






--------------------


If I knew the way, I would take you home.


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Offlineflipcode
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Agentchewy]
    #19339241 - 12/28/13 10:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Interior instrument.. 

Beautiful!


--------------------


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InvisibleJvells
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19339576 - 12/28/13 11:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Psychedelics allow us to think outside of our programming.




well said brother:heart:. Just the fact that there are substances around us and even fucking IN US that do exactly that mind fucks the SHIT out of me everyday. This, is what makes them spiritual to me. What's even wilder is they seem to enhance our consciousness and thought processes...WILD shit. The stoned ape theory seems sooo fucking plausible in some aspects you gotta admit. How come there havent been any tests done on like apes/monkeys and mushrooms/pschedelics? Only fucking spiders...what if like after enough time the ape developed some kind of language with another ape through the ESP so many people report on here. ahah now i'm gettin too far out:lol:


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InvisibleFrozenHappiness
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19339728 - 12/29/13 12:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Ultimately we as users make tripping spiritual but

this

Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
Quote:

nicechrisman said:
Psychedelics allow us to think outside of our programming.




I like to say it removes you from the human restrained perspective.




is the profound and unique ability of psychedelics.


--------------------


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Offlines240779
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Starskii]
    #19340280 - 12/29/13 04:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Starskii said:
Tom Leary was an atheist and then he tripped a fuck-ton and turned into a religious guy apparently. But, in my experiences I am a non-religious and my trips seem to reinforce my atheist ideology on the Universe, although I have been opened up to the idea that the Universe itself is a God in a way.




He exposed himself to religious literature (mostly eastern), it being the closest thing he could associate with his trips.


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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: s240779]
    #19340449 - 12/29/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I had an acid trip where I had lost my ego but when I came back I realized that God copulated with himself (not saying this in a rude way) in order to create life and we are all manifestations of God.

That one reinforced my beliefs. See I've gone through phases where I didn't believe in God and where I did (I now believe in God more strongly than anything). And with both modes of thinking, I have to say, LSD seems very cold to me. I usually don't have revelations about God or anything like that. Most of the time I don't even feel comfortable asking about it. To me LSD just seems like sort of a mirror molecule that came about from a molecular soup complex enough and it just happens to allow us to look at ourselves introspectively. I feel that it's a part of evolution. But to me it's not very spiritual in a religious sense.

I'm talking about cid because I don't have enough varied experiences with other psyches to say.


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage


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OfflineVaultKnowledge
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Starskii]
    #19340557 - 12/29/13 07:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I've heard an interesting comment on this psychedelic-spirituality from Terence McKenna (Plants Consciousness & Transformation), and though personally I've discovered my spiritual side through psychedelics, I completely agree with him:

"...So to me spirituality means: Do you visit the sick in prison? Do you clothe the naked? Do you feed the hungry? Do you bury the dead? Do you comfort the afflicted? When I see somebody doing those things I say this is a spiritually evolving person. When I see somebody taking psilocybin, I say there is an explorer. But I don't try to lay on some moral judgement about good and evil, I think that's inappropriate. Spiritual accomplishment is manifested by moral action. And the role these psychedelics play, they may make moral action easier because they show you your memories and your depths and your mistakes, but intrinsically they are not tools for spiritual development, they are tools for the exploration of mind. And we don't know what that is..."


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: VaultKnowledge]
    #19340587 - 12/29/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

the experience is very multi-threaded, yet fragments bleed easily across those threads into our shared memory:

by allowing more than one conscious time stream to operate at more than one consistent rate of passage,
moments of experience tend to stack up on top of each other to provide seemingly endless concurrent dimensions, unconstrained by the usual formality of sequence in which the end of one moment segues into the beginning of the next.

ideas interpenetrate, in fact whole minds interpenetrate from the stacked up moments. our mind has become a multitude, and it interpenetrates itself.

the takeaway is one of being part of a larger consciousness, and sensing that reality has more dimensions than these 3 plus time.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblebotha
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19340672 - 12/29/13 08:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Many astronauts who have been to outer space later on become religious. But there was one astronaut, whos name apparently cant remember, but he said that it is too easy answer and he prefers the scientific explanation, how to cope with the experience of being in space.


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: botha]
    #19340771 - 12/29/13 09:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know how tripping CAN'T be spiritual.

When that sun comes through the clouds and hits you with a feeling that you've never felt before. Pure life, what is it but not spiritual


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Starskii]
    #19340787 - 12/29/13 09:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Starskii said:
Tom Leary was an atheist and then he tripped a fuck-ton and turned into a religious guy apparently. But, in my experiences I am a non-religious and my trips seem to reinforce my atheist ideology on the Universe, although I have been opened up to the idea that the Universe itself is a God in a way. But at the same time, we are all the Universe because we exist within it's confines. I just wanted to have a serious conversation on your spiritual experiences on L and if you think they were caused by your general set or if they were genuinely a spiritual experience?




one love one soul

and remembering I am not this body

before I was atheist then agnostic for a handful of years, and maybe a little theistic before that

but now I seem to remember, it fits my life experience well
things like lucid dreaming made me not think everything I saw was real either, and less likely to believe I am this body or everything material that science dictates

I dont subscribe to coincidences either, no coincidences

only subscribe to own life experience

same as before, who I am inside never changes, eternal, soul in body
the love is still the same, it never fades after forgetting it for so many years


Edited by lessismore (12/29/13 09:54 AM)


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OfflineUniverse
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: botha]
    #19340796 - 12/29/13 09:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

My dad is an atheist. He is 100% positive that there's nothing out there. He thinks that the sober world reveals everything and that everything in creation is just a random occurrence. There's no God, and nothing happens when you die. Case closed. He's very stubborn about it - you can't get into a discussion without him trashing all God and religion, using religious extremists as his only examples.

Being his son, I shared the same views - up until I started to trip. I never got into any kind of organized religion, but it didn't take many trips to convince me that there is definably something out there, something more to this life. I gave up trying to figure it out a long time ago, I just appreciated it for what it is. It's the thing that we can't ever fully understand. The problem with organized religion is that they think they have it figured out. No one has it figured out, and if they say they do, they're either mistaken or full of shit.

The big problem with atheists like my dad is that they're so sure of themselves. I'm pretty sure that if he would trip a couple of times he'd soften up, (or maybe not, he's 89 years old). Or the younger version if him. Personally I don't see how any stuborn, "case closed" athiest can still feel that way after some psychedelic experiences. That's the whole thing about psychedelics, you see through it all. You see through atheism, you see through religion. Deep down you become honest with yourself. You drop the arrogance and you admit that there are things you can't and never will understand. That, right there, to me, is GOD. Ponder it, be fascinated by it, use it for creativity, but don't ever think that you have it figured out.


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OfflinePsychedelicLife
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Universe]
    #19340813 - 12/29/13 09:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Universe said:
My dad is an atheist. He is 100% positive that there's nothing out there. He thinks that the sober world reveals everything and that everything in creation is just a random occurrence. There's no God, and nothing happens when you die. Case closed. He's very stubborn about it - you can't get into a discussion without him trashing all God and religion, using religious extremists as his only examples.

Being his son, I shared the same views - up until I started to trip. I never got into any kind of organized religion, but it didn't take many trips to convince me that there is definably something out there, something more to this life. I gave up trying to figure it out a long time ago, I just appreciated it for what it is. It's the thing that we can't ever fully understand. The problem with organized religion is that they think they have it figured out. No one has it figured out, and if they say they do, they're either mistaken or full of shit.

The big problem with atheists like my dad is that they're so sure of themselves. I'm pretty sure that if he would trip a couple of times he'd soften up, (or maybe not, he's 89 years old). Or the younger version if him. Personally I don't see how any stuborn, "case closed" athiest can still feel that way after some psychedelic experiences. That's the whole thing about psychedelics, you see through it all. You see through atheism, you see through religion. Deep down you become honest with yourself. You drop the arrogance and you admit that there are things you can't and never will understand. That, right there, to me, is GOD. Ponder it, be fascinated by it, use it for creativity, but don't ever think that you have it figured out.




Perfectly said! Reminds me of one of my favorite Terrence Mckenna quotes :smile:

"The Western mind is very queasy around these experiences that cast into doubt their illusions about how reality is put together. When you get to DMT, you have hit the main vein.  I mean, I hold it in reserve as the ultimate convincer.  I mean, there are these people running around who say, "You people are into drugs - give me a branch whiskey and a little TV - I think you're deluding yourselves."  "Do you?  Well do you have five minutes to invest in this cheerful proposition, my friend, because have I got news for you!"


--------------------




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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PsychedelicLife]
    #19340837 - 12/29/13 09:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think atheism is actually cam be of the most fundamentalist religious stances.


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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OfflineAgentchewy
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PsychedelicLife]
    #19340848 - 12/29/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

there are these people running around who say, "You people are into drugs - give me a branch whiskey and a little TV - I think you're deluding yourselves."




--------------------


If I knew the way, I would take you home.


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Offlineteenagehippie
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Starskii]
    #19340853 - 12/29/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'd say it can be argued either way...to some people they may tell us everything we know may not be as it seems, since tripping is probably the most unusual out-of-everyday experience people can experience.

On the other hand, although they make us question reality and what we know...they are basically proof that even the strangest things can be explained in terms of chemicals and reactions, science and facts.

If someone became more or less religious as a direct result of tripping, i'd say it would be purely down to their preconceptions and what they actually saw/thought while high. For example if you took 10 tabs and an angel told you you were Jesus reborn, how do you know you wouldn't believe it? On 10 tabs I bet anything could seem possible :P

EDIT: For arguments sake, I am an atheist btw.


Edited by teenagehippie (12/29/13 09:58 AM)


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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #19340870 - 12/29/13 10:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There is something I wanna share with you guys because I think it may help some of you understand. I read a book that said that we communicate through God through our subconscious. Now, I am in NO way diminishing the greatness of God but I feel that it helps the logical ones of us. Basically, when we pray our actions change on a subconscious level and our prayers are fulfilled. I am not saying that God isn't beyond that because I believe He is but it just makes so much sense. Our minds are linked to greater things that we just don't understand. You know how people talk about linking into a collective consciousness? I believe that's part of it.


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage


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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19340875 - 12/29/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19340922 - 12/29/13 10:24 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Aopocetx said:
There is something I wanna share with you guys because I think it may help some of you understand. I read a book that said that we communicate through God through our subconscious. Now, I am in NO way diminishing the greatness of God but I feel that it helps the logical ones of us. Basically, when we pray our actions change on a subconscious level and our prayers are fulfilled. I am not saying that God isn't beyond that because I believe He is but it just makes so much sense. Our minds are linked to greater things that we just don't understand. You know how people talk about linking into a collective consciousness? I believe that's part of it.




When we are tripping, we realize the purpose of everything we think about, at least I do. Things that you are being told & shown you believe and it's not you specifically thinking about these things, you are being shown, and you believe what your seeing and feeling.

For instance the sun, my first trip, I made many realizations and things that you wouldn't normally feel, you will die without light, how the sun is truly every living organism on Earths source of Life. our minds are linked to greater things for sure, and we definitely don't understand it. When the sun sets, you would normally watch it in peace, tripping I learned everything about anything I was being shown through my own psyche. But who is on the other side showing you these sights?

I think what we see, feel and believe is Truth shining right through.

It's up to you how you want to use the information :P


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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #19341053 - 12/29/13 11:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Eclipse3130 said:


When we are tripping, we realize the purpose of everything we think about, at least I do. Things that you are being told & shown you believe and it's not you specifically thinking about these things, you are being shown, and you believe what your seeing and feeling.





I understand what you're saying but I believe in God because of my own experiences. The thing is I was raised Christian and at that point you could say I believed other people's thoughts, but I became an atheist for a pretty long time and in the end I had an experience where I could never deny God again. That's just me. But what you said applies to me in no way.


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19341071 - 12/29/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't think tripping leads you to become atheist for everyone. Until about three days ago, I considered myself an atheist. However, I don't think this is the best word to describe me anymore.

I don't think there is a God per se who we must pray to and is responsible for everything that happens on the Earth; however, I can find some credence in the existence of some higher power that put things into play. Like what is existence in the first place, and how did things come into being? There had to be something to start it all...


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OfflineVaultKnowledge
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19341206 - 12/29/13 11:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think both science and spirituality are essentially the two sides of the same coin. By spirituality I don't mean religion (though they probably share the same root) but more like the creative, intuitive mind. I think psychedelics are tools to get entry to this irrational, strange inner world. Some call it God, some collective unconscious, some hyperspace, but whatever it is, it cannot be explained by science. At least not in the current form. For the greater understanding of the workings of the world, one is not enough on its own to explain how the universe and/or the mind works.


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InvisibleJvells
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19342299 - 12/29/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah it sure trips you out thinking about the beginning of everything and especially evolution, how we found a decent food source and managed to develop so perfectly without dying...its such a mindfuck its rediculous. When you think of all the ways we got lucky evolving it really makes you wonder if something did create us. What if the universe...created us because it wanted consciousness rather than nothingness (pantheism)? There clearly are flaws with us so i kind of doubt something with its own consciousness could have created us because it would realize all the flaws.


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Jvells]
    #19342385 - 12/29/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Look into reptilian theories. An interesting account during an LSD session lead by Stanislav Grof may verify some of this too.


Most disconcerting of all were those experiences in which the patient’s consciousness appeared to expand beyond the usual boundaries of the ego and explore what it was like to be other living things and even other objects. For example, Grof had one female patient who suddenly became convinced she had assumed the identity of a female prehistoric reptile. She not only gave a richly detailed description of what it felt like to be encapsuled in such a form, but noted that the portion of the male of the species’ anatomy she found most sexually arousing was a patch of colored scales on the side of its head. Although the woman had no prior knowledge of such things, a conversation Grof had with a zoologist later confirmed that in certain species of reptiles, colored areas on the head do indeed play an important role as triggers of sexual arousal.

Michael Talbot. The Holographic Universe, p. 68


I also highly recommend checking out Stanislav Grof's books. Just Google stanislav grof books. Many of them are available for free on kickass.to


--
Also know that Reptilians are known throughout the universe as master geneticists. Over millennia, they have literally genetically created ‘new’ races of beings from blending their original organic Reptilian DNA, with conquered races of other people, including human(oids) from various planets.
When Reptilians create these hybrid beings, these hybrid organic 3D people have intelligence, but likely no soul or spiritual essence. Many of them are not created through procreation and are not born in the normal birth process;  but are rather typically created in a lab, in a petri dish, they are then ‘grown’ over a period of time in a nutrient solution, and become fully formed blended reptilian/human(oid) beings at ‘birth’.
--

http://www.andromedacouncil.com/thehardrealityanddifficulttruth.html#sthash.SeQAL27Y.dpuf


Another article: http://humansarefree.com/2013/10/new-reptilian-world-order-complete.html

In The Pleiadian Agenda, Barbara Hand Clow writes that “the Anunnaki selected women to have sex with them so they could actually birth themselves into the incarnational cycles of Earth


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Jvells]
    #19342388 - 12/29/13 04:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Look into reptilian theories. An interesting account during an LSD session lead by Stanislav Grof may verify some of this too.

--
Most disconcerting of all were those experiences in which the patient’s consciousness appeared to expand beyond the usual boundaries of the ego and explore what it was like to be other living things and even other objects. For example, Grof had one female patient who suddenly became convinced she had assumed the identity of a female prehistoric reptile. She not only gave a richly detailed description of what it felt like to be encapsuled in such a form, but noted that the portion of the male of the species’ anatomy she found most sexually arousing was a patch of colored scales on the side of its head. Although the woman had no prior knowledge of such things, a conversation Grof had with a zoologist later confirmed that in certain species of reptiles, colored areas on the head do indeed play an important role as triggers of sexual arousal.
--

Michael Talbot. The Holographic Universe, p. 68


I also highly recommend checking out Stanislav Grof's books. Just Google stanislav grof books. Many of them are available for free on kickass.to


--
Also know that Reptilians are known throughout the universe as master geneticists. Over millennia, they have literally genetically created ‘new’ races of beings from blending their original organic Reptilian DNA, with conquered races of other people, including human(oids) from various planets.
When Reptilians create these hybrid beings, these hybrid organic 3D people have intelligence, but likely no soul or spiritual essence. Many of them are not created through procreation and are not born in the normal birth process;  but are rather typically created in a lab, in a petri dish, they are then ‘grown’ over a period of time in a nutrient solution, and become fully formed blended reptilian/human(oid) beings at ‘birth’.
--

http://www.andromedacouncil.com/thehardrealityanddifficulttruth.html#sthash.SeQAL27Y.dpuf


Another article: http://humansarefree.com/2013/10/new-reptilian-world-order-complete.html

--
In The Pleiadian Agenda, Barbara Hand Clow writes that “the Anunnaki selected women to have sex with them so they could actually birth themselves into the incarnational cycles of Earth


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InvisibleJvells
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: s240779]
    #19342881 - 12/29/13 06:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Im surely open to all ideas but if reptilians were real what created them...? That pattern would continue which leads me to pantheism, the universe basically created itself. Its all that i think is possible at least unless you can give me a way reptilians could have came about? That answer has gotta be some far out shit is all i know ahahah


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Starskii]
    #19342920 - 12/29/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Interestingly I just watched a documentary on how complex the brain is. There are shown people with various brain damages in different parts of the brain and how it influences on the persons perception of the world. The discussion is detailed with visualization of the specific parts of the brain being involved.

At 40 min into the documentary there is an example of a guy who has seizures in his temporal lobes and amygdala, giving him the sensation that he is the GOD. I think this example is closely linked to what is being discussed here.

If I remember correctly, psychedelics can influence on the temporal lobes and the amygdala and therefore will give similar or identical sensation as that person in the documentary.

I would recommend all to watch the whole program, but the relevant part starts at the 40 minutes where the most interesting part is between 49 and 53 minutes. Enjoy.


Edited by Blind fool (12/29/13 06:44 PM)


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Blind fool]
    #19343000 - 12/29/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting. I'll definitely check out the documentary. But things like that almost seem like hints that there is a God. Like why is there a part of the brain that makes you feel like God if religion created it? How would it be hardwired into the brain like that?


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19343009 - 12/29/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yes, these all are excellent questions, but really tricky and hard to answer and not tangle yourself into pure speculations.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Starskii]
    #19344101 - 12/29/13 11:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Starskii said:
Tom Leary was an atheist and then he tripped a fuck-ton and turned into a religious guy apparently. But, in my experiences I am a non-religious and my trips seem to reinforce my atheist ideology on the Universe, although I have been opened up to the idea that the Universe itself is a God in a way. But at the same time, we are all the Universe because we exist within it's confines. I just wanted to have a serious conversation on your spiritual experiences on L and if you think they were caused by your general set or if they were genuinely a spiritual experience?




It doesn't really matter what you believe or don't believe if you trip heavily enough - all of it gets washed away and replaced with experiential truth, not fiction.  It might make you seem religious to seem people but that's only because they are merely hungry ghosts, as Buddhism says...

The BS ideas that come up while tripping - "this is that", "god is the universe", "i am god" - are just BS ideas with no relevance, they're very similar to schizophrenic thinking and lead nowhere useful.  The experience itself is far more powerful than any labels you can possibly apply to it, and living outside of label-land is a vast improvement.

But for me this isn't due to lucy, just to mushrooms. :lol:

:peace:PS


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Edited by PrimalSoup (12/29/13 11:11 PM)


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19345648 - 12/30/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I am god, you are too (eternal, infinite, a soul in a body)
I am everything I see
The soul is perfect
God is in all (islam anyone?)
I become what I think, my state affects everyone around me
I can change everything by changing myself
Everything is what we think it is, think positively

Equally great soul in all

They have been useful to me, but I dont deny, I fit to experience

Lsd did most for me, made me remember


Edited by lessismore (12/30/13 10:06 AM)


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
    #19345700 - 12/30/13 10:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Identities are limiting. :lol:

:peace:PS


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19345734 - 12/30/13 10:28 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

Starskii said:
Tom Leary was an atheist and then he tripped a fuck-ton and turned into a religious guy apparently. But, in my experiences I am a non-religious and my trips seem to reinforce my atheist ideology on the Universe, although I have been opened up to the idea that the Universe itself is a God in a way. But at the same time, we are all the Universe because we exist within it's confines. I just wanted to have a serious conversation on your spiritual experiences on L and if you think they were caused by your general set or if they were genuinely a spiritual experience?




It doesn't really matter what you believe or don't believe if you trip heavily enough - all of it gets washed away and replaced with experiential truth, not fiction.  It might make you seem religious to seem people but that's only because they are merely hungry ghosts, as Buddhism says...

The BS ideas that come up while tripping - "this is that", "god is the universe", "i am god" - are just BS ideas with no relevance, they're very similar to schizophrenic thinking and lead nowhere useful.  The experience itself is far more powerful than any labels you can possibly apply to it, and living outside of label-land is a vast improvement.

But for me this isn't due to lucy, just to mushrooms. :lol:

:peace:PS




I wouldn't say those are bs ideas without relevance at all, in fact some of the more rewarding revelations. Obviously the language is a constant limiting factor which is why experience itself is necessary, but fuck we're human. We communicate with our own words which  accounts for more than a majority of our disharmony. Doesn't mean we don't feel the deeper meaning. "God" is just the label I give to talk about the labeless existence for which I couldn't otherwise communicate


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19345771 - 12/30/13 10:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I dont mind identifying with my soul, but I can see how it can be interpreted as ego :-)

soul is all the soul sees

but all talk is ego
we could also just experience without talking, there is only so much the human language can portray

what I am saying is, I am not just my body - which they made me remember
I can leave my body at any time, if practicing enough
my consciousness is shared between many people, experiencing is believing


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19346366 - 12/30/13 01:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I wouldn't say those are bs ideas without relevance at all, in fact some of the more rewarding revelations. Obviously the language is a constant limiting factor which is why experience itself is necessary, but fuck we're human. We communicate with our own words which  accounts for more than a majority of our disharmony. Doesn't mean we don't feel the deeper meaning. "God" is just the label I give to talk about the labeless existence for which I couldn't otherwise communicate




Fair enough, but that's not the way they're usually used.  Language isn't logic, and language isn't necessary for thought.  Going beyond language opens up levels of reality that are otherwise missed because they can't be described.  Description is not a requirement.  The experience is its own validation, communicating it is merely a bonus, IF you succeed. 

That's why  Shakyamuni (the Buddha) merely held up a flower during his most profound lecture on nonduality.  Almost nobody ever "gets" it.  But hey, that's just the way it is, and it can't be understood with dualistic thought. :shrug:

:peace:PS


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? *DELETED* [Re: Starskii]
    #19346433 - 12/30/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by jraad

Reason for deletion: .



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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: jraad]
    #19346440 - 12/30/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What's religion?


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? *DELETED* [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19346498 - 12/30/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by jraad

Reason for deletion: .



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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: jraad]
    #19346521 - 12/30/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

jraad said:
Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
What's religion?




The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. ?




It was meant as a rhetorical question aimed at highlighting the fact that religion is viewed as many different things by many different people. You can call it anything you want; spirituality, religion, whatever. I think religion doesn't necessarily have to do with believing in a god or gods, but just in something.

And if that something is the lack of something, so be it.


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? *DELETED* [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19346575 - 12/30/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Post deleted by jraad

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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19346613 - 12/30/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
Quote:

jraad said:
Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
What's religion?




The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. ?




It was meant as a rhetorical question aimed at highlighting the fact that religion is viewed as many different things by many different people. You can call it anything you want; spirituality, religion, whatever. I think religion doesn't necessarily have to do with believing in a god or gods, but just in something.

And if that something is the lack of something, so be it.




:jackiechanofapproval:

My personal view in relation to the OP is that for me, the simple notion that there is more out there than what we think we know makes psychedelic experience spiritual for me. There is always a sense of wonder, and in psychedelic experience I have seen and contemplated the complexity of the universe around us.
Just the way that substances like marijuana, LSD, psilocybin, and mescaline can alter one's perception so much can show us that human experience is very relative to our perception of what we call "Reality".

There is a lot that we do not understand, and so much more out there-and within ourselves, as well. Whether the force that connects us all is a god, a network of gods, or a lattice of condensed cosmic energy in a three-dimensional form of physical consciousness, the act of pondering any of these things is, in itself, spiritual.


--------------------
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Seem to get lost and harder to find.
When I am alone I am inclined,
If I find a pebble in sand,
To think that it fell from my hand..."



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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: jraad]
    #19346798 - 12/30/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

problematic distinctions




:nojustno:  I hate those. :lol:

:peace:PS


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19346835 - 12/30/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
It was meant as a rhetorical question aimed at highlighting the fact that religion is viewed as many different things by many different people. You can call it anything you want; spirituality, religion, whatever. I think religion doesn't necessarily have to do with believing in a god or gods, but just in something.

And if that something is the lack of something, so be it.




Atheism seems more like a lack of belief to me...


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19346839 - 12/30/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Aopocetx said:
Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
It was meant as a rhetorical question aimed at highlighting the fact that religion is viewed as many different things by many different people. You can call it anything you want; spirituality, religion, whatever. I think religion doesn't necessarily have to do with believing in a god or gods, but just in something.

And if that something is the lack of something, so be it.




Atheism seems more like a lack of belief to me...




A lack of belief in god, but not in something else.

I don't think I believe in god. But I believe there is something that we don't have the power to explain yet, or maybe ever will.


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19347079 - 12/30/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

I wouldn't say those are bs ideas without relevance at all, in fact some of the more rewarding revelations. Obviously the language is a constant limiting factor which is why experience itself is necessary, but fuck we're human. We communicate with our own words which  accounts for more than a majority of our disharmony. Doesn't mean we don't feel the deeper meaning. "God" is just the label I give to talk about the labeless existence for which I couldn't otherwise communicate




Fair enough, but that's not the way they're usually used.  Language isn't logic, and language isn't necessary for thought.  Going beyond language opens up levels of reality that are otherwise missed because they can't be described.  Description is not a requirement.  The experience is its own validation, communicating it is merely a bonus, IF you succeed. 

That's why  Shakyamuni (the Buddha) merely held up a flower during his most profound lecture on nonduality.  Almost nobody ever "gets" it.  But hey, that's just the way it is, and it can't be understood with dualistic thought. :shrug:

:peace:PS




No I totally agree. Language is simply for communication purposes. I was watching a lecture by moogi and one of the points he made was that none of his speech is ever touching the value of its meaning. He's simply pointing at it from as many angles as possible so as to resonate with as many people as possible, because one of those words might click with a different persons understanding. But of course at the base of reality it's ambiguous


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19347425 - 12/30/13 05:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

Starskii said:
Tom Leary was an atheist and then he tripped a fuck-ton and turned into a religious guy apparently. But, in my experiences I am a non-religious and my trips seem to reinforce my atheist ideology on the Universe, although I have been opened up to the idea that the Universe itself is a God in a way. But at the same time, we are all the Universe because we exist within it's confines. I just wanted to have a serious conversation on your spiritual experiences on L and if you think they were caused by your general set or if they were genuinely a spiritual experience?




It doesn't really matter what you believe or don't believe if you trip heavily enough - all of it gets washed away and replaced with experiential truth, not fiction.  It might make you seem religious to seem people but that's only because they are merely hungry ghosts, as Buddhism says...

The BS ideas that come up while tripping - "this is that", "god is the universe", "i am god" - are just BS ideas with no relevance, they're very similar to schizophrenic thinking and lead nowhere useful.  The experience itself is far more powerful than any labels you can possibly apply to it, and living outside of label-land is a vast improvement.

But for me this isn't due to lucy, just to mushrooms. :lol:

:peace:PS




I wouldn't say those are bs ideas without relevance at all, in fact some of the more rewarding revelations. Obviously the language is a constant limiting factor which is why experience itself is necessary, but fuck we're human. We communicate with our own words which  accounts for more than a majority of our disharmony. Doesn't mean we don't feel the deeper meaning. "God" is just the label I give to talk about the labeless existence for which I couldn't otherwise communicate




Same
I am god, you are too means I am undefined to me
God is all there is to me

If I am the only god they lock me up
But if you are god too it is okay
Then it isnt the ego having taken over my brain ;-)
We are all gods, enjoy
Gods in term of our reality
- ram dass


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
    #19347470 - 12/30/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah, and this is so obvious when tripping.  The hard part is making it obvious all the time. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19347530 - 12/30/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think that Theism is the word everyone's looking for.

I'm Agnostic and have no side to fight for, or against--it's such a peaceful place. I have Atheist friends that get in fights to prove there is no god--I think they feel just about as strong of the matter as theist believers do--it all kind of rolls off my shoulders like: "entertaining view, that's pretty cool, how many virgins?".

I like Karma and freedom for all others to chose whatever the heck it is they want to believe--as long as it doesn't hurt others.

Peace!


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: flipcode]
    #19347981 - 12/30/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

flipcode said:
I think that Theism is the word everyone's looking for.

I'm Agnostic and have no side to fight for, or against--it's such a peaceful place. I have Atheist friends that get in fights to prove there is no god--I think they feel just about as strong of the matter as theist believers do--it all kind of rolls off my shoulders like: "entertaining view, that's pretty cool, how many virgins?".

I like Karma and freedom for all others to chose whatever the heck it is they want to believe--as long as it doesn't hurt others.

Peace!




Exactly! I believe in God greatly but I would never try to argue my position. I can explain why I feel the way I do but I've been in that position and I know that nothing anyone can say would change it.

In the end we're all free to our own unique beliefs.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19348372 - 12/30/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Yeah, and this is so obvious when tripping.  The hard part is making it obvious all the time. :thumbup:

:peace:PS




Look for it in your hobbies because it is everywhere. It is the logic of existence after all. For me, I'm studying biochem so I see it in that quite easily every day. Though others you have to be a bit more abstract to see. But once you do, you don't unsee


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19348545 - 12/30/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Actually, it's a large part of my research into quantum physics and the realization of superposition states, which is being conducted with the aid of mushrooms for the past few years.  And it's a huge development in a very promising direction. :thumbup:

But it integrates well with Buddhist mind practice, and explains most if not all of the known religions. 

Uhm, just all in a day's work, ya know. :lol:

:peace:PS


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19349000 - 12/30/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

quantum mechanics seems to say that I am myself a matrix transforming what I observe

observable A, state |psi>, I am the observer, I get the eigenvalue a by observing/collapsing your state, so I must myself be a matrix

a hermitian matrix :-)

I actually took a QM course once, not in my mind, took 8 weeks + 8 weeks linear algebra preps
feel free to disprove, I might be wrong :-)

superposition I would like to hear from you, I find it not logical with superposition states in nature
but logical with everything being a wave in nature / spread out in the universe

but you seem to be kidding heh, or else you seem to come off as arrogant sometimes, maybe I am misinterpreting...

there is nothing wrong with being interested in math/physics when tripping, as long as you understand you will never know it all, but having a curious mind can be beneficial if you fit to experience

neither is there any illegal thoughts to have, any thought is allowed
but the above QM thought is not a tripping thought, it is a thought after tripping


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
    #19349106 - 12/30/13 11:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Nah, it's hard to explain, it's very real, and it's just what I'm researching part time. I've posted about it occasionally. :thumbup:

If you understand the whole observer effect intimately, try to determine when you yourself stop becoming an observer while tripping.  That's when the superposition state builds.  It's exactly the same as Buddhist enlightenment, more exactly, the "great function" described in The Blue Cliff Record, a collection of Zen koans and commentary.  You'll find the same sort of description in certain other key religious texts, they all seem to stem from the same original experience, which maps directly to a human superposed state.

And if you understand the physics involved, there's no particular a priori limitation on the extent of a superposition state.  Reference Roger Penrose for some of the earliest speculation regarding human mediated quantum superposition.  Superposition for objects the size of a bumblebee has been achieved experimentally, well into the "macro" realm.

Quote:

quantum mechanics seems to say that I am myself a matrix transforming what I observe




Well, not really SFAIK - you don't need to refer to the result to obtain the source, since simpler systems than you (think two-slit experiment) have the ability to collapse wave functions.  QM (in one popular interpretation) says that IF you are an observer you collapse wave fields.  But observers can be strictly mechanical as well, provided they have the ability to detect a particular sort of effect.  Humans are fairly simple biomechanical systems, and theoretically you can build a functional equivalent - but an ordinary AI will probably do quite well, once we have those. 

I suspect that humans evolved this ability to directly (preferentially) collapse wave functions at some point in the distant evolutionary past - because we still retain the ability to operate without that collapse occurring.  That's what meditation accomplishes, and that's what psychedelic drugs invoke, and that's why tripping seems both so familiar and so extremely odd at the same time.  It's how we traverse timelines while under the influence, and access otherwise hidden information, and a whole host of other things as well.

Experiential QM as revealed through tripping is an extremely deep subject, possibly the deepest there is or can be.  IME it doesn't always follow available math in its operation, which merely says available math is inadequate to explicate it. That however shouldn't stop anybody from doing their own research, something that I'd like to encourage, since at present there's approximately nobody working on this. :lol: 

My limited research so far accords with QM theory as to state collapse triggers, and I'm getting ready to do a much longer round of it come this summer - enough replication to be able to assign some solid probabilities to the findings. But that's only the beginning. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


Edited by PrimalSoup (12/30/13 11:31 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19349157 - 12/30/13 11:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

give me your state and I shall transform it, as I am a matrix? observer=matrix?

quantum mechanics is nuts... but funny
everything is a matrix in QM, even the observer / person making the measurement it seems

also quantum mechanics actually starts to make some sense if tripping

there is a certainty that you can walk through walls (also on first try),
appear on mars tomorrow, or bounce back if you jump off a cliff

interesting / funny theory..

makes some sense if everything I am is a wave, because then I am spread out everywhere in space

I like to discuss this :-)

superposition is one thing that makes no sense to me
but I subscribe to the shared unconsciousness (carl jung), maybe we are all in a superposition state of each others consciousness somehow

of course this last part is all philosophy, but interesting to think about nonetheless


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
    #19349243 - 12/30/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Uhm, I've edited the previous post about 10 times and possibly addressed this. 

But be careful with your matrices, because they're merely one way to describe certain aspects, not the thing itself.  Look to your mind and surroundings as the superposition occurs, you'll know it by phantom observers popping up around you (AKA hallucinations, visual and auditory).  They appear to be traces from alternate states, ghosts as it were.  Just writing about this is freaking me out all over again... :lol:

But it's getting late now, so good night. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


--------------------

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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
    #19349248 - 12/30/13 11:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

When I stop becoming an observer I am one with everything :-)

happened a few handful times on shrooms/LSD

first morph into the furniture, then one with everything that ever was, then unconscious

I guess I see what you mean now, maybe you werent kidding hehe

damn I think you just blew my mind

if it hadnt already been blown, but I had forgotten I had blown it , so long since I tripped last ;-)

btw I like shamanism too, still a beginner though
I learn from sitting in nature most days

I believe most illnesses start in the soul, that is my reason for learning shamanism
initially to cure my own problems/health issues, but then I could quickly see that we are all the same...

a shaman knows others because he knows himself

the problems that other people face is often the same problems as the problems the shaman had to face in himself


Edited by lessismore (12/30/13 11:45 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19349359 - 12/31/13 12:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I like to just observe in reality too :-)

can learn more than from tripping from that sometimes

a lot can be noticed sometimes

I think buddhism must say something about this too, I like buddhism

observe when I walk, when I eat, when I sit in nature, before I meditate etc.
everything around me can teach me

also I think your buddhist joke was epic, "make me one with everything" ;-)
I believe that when I die I become one with everything, but I dont cease after that I believe
maybe in this form

I believe in an underlying theme to most religions, it was just your way of writing that got on my nerves a bit...
when I trip I learn what I must know, I dont expect anything
same when I meditate, no expectations, just accept

night :-)


Edited by lessismore (12/31/13 12:23 AM)


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OfflineNihon_Hyperspace
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
    #19349636 - 12/31/13 02:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A message to all agnostics:

You can't have your cake and eat it too.


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OfflineStarskii
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19349722 - 12/31/13 02:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I wouldn't really designate myself as a pure atheist. Like I said in my original post I believe there are some things science hasn't answered yet, but I do believe that the big bang happened and that evolution occurred and is still occurring.

Actually while I was tripping it made me quite proud to think of evolution because it leads to the general conclusion that we are all derivatives of one larger organism that we could designate as "life" or Earth life. Think about the journey, think about how unlikely it is that we survived 5 extinction events and still evolved in such a way that provoked literature and therefor abstract thinking. Imagine how wonderful-terrific-extraordinary-beautiful or just plain awesome it is that we got to a point to where we are right now. Sitting in a room, a monkey-sitting in a room that his race created years before, taking a compound that provokes out-of-the-box thinking, and using our once primitive instinctive minds to answer a massive question introspectively. A question that I believe is the reason we all take LSD time-to-time: what the fuck are we doing here? The answer I have stumbled upon all so humbly in my meditative state is that we are here to do absolutely nothing but to absorb and question. But I guess that answer is really just a mirror of whom we aspire to be; what role we wish to play in this drama that we call life.


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OfflineStarskii
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Starskii]
    #19349728 - 12/31/13 02:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Also, Atheism can be both a religion or an ideology depending on what the individual treats it as. I used the word ideology as a synonym for beliefs. I felt the two could be used interchangeably and I apologize for the confusion.


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Offlineflipcode
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Nihon_Hyperspace]
    #19349860 - 12/31/13 04:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Nihon_Hyperspace said:
A message to all agnostics:

You can't have your cake and eat it too.




Funny,  My Harold Camping following, doomsday preaching father said the same thing a few times..

I'm not sure what you refer to as the "cake" but it must be related to your beliefs--so...

I'll speak entirely for myself as an Agnostic here; It's not that I do/don't discredit any Theist or BigBang theory--I find a lot of insight and interest in them both.
It really comes down to; how could I trust a man-written message that's been changed and translated many many times.
Also--what good is picking one side doing? I think that I did realize on L that depending on where I was born, who my parents were, what my government/dictatorship told me would change what I believed (to a powerful degree). I looked at religion and thought--what good does it really do? I see it cause wars, cause separation and it's a major enabler of greed and ego. If there is a creator--he/she/whatever is probably laughing his balls off that we use religion in such a opportunistic, violent, judgmental, distorted way.

In terms of having cake--I'd rather face "whatever" humble, as a good person with no reward in mind other than seeing fellow man happy and safe--than as a person that stepped on others to assure my destiny.
I think that I'd also like to reincarnate as a bird, walking on a cloud would be cool, absolute end, peace and darkness would be nice, I guess that I could even find a bright side of fire if resulting.
My main thing is feeding and improving the actions of my now. How can I help those I interact with throughout the day? I'm guessing that telling them what they believe is wrong, or that they are going to hell does not fit.


--------------------


Edited by flipcode (12/31/13 04:41 AM)


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Offlinegodisamushroom
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: flipcode]
    #19349879 - 12/31/13 05:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I wouldn't be too quick to associate the word spiritual with religion.

The "Spirit" was thought to be the essence of miracle which allows consciousness. What ever "thing" inside of us and other living things that allows us to feel, act, and sense our external and internal stimuli.

With that out of the way, I'd like to say the "Spirituality" of tripping is letting parts of your mind become exposed to other parts of your mind that normally don't communicate. This allows thoughts like you've never had before, and which you can genuinely learn from.

My hypothesis, is that shrooms can't literally put thoughts into your mind. They can only manipulate what is already in your brain so every thought that you think, every complex geometric visual you see, are all products of your own brain's creation that you've never experienced before.

It just so happens that these thoughts tend to be around things that seem to be in the "bigger picture". The universe, the eternal nature of time, the rationalization that life isn't about individuals, but rather the success or failure of the species' as a whole

The closest thing to religious that I've had with shrooms would either be perhaps the feeling of unification of all things. Feeling one with all other beings. Or feeling like I'm in the presence of an omniscient being. Sometimes I like to think the omniscient being I'm sensing is no more than my unconscious mind communicating with my conscious mind


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19349917 - 12/31/13 05:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Nah, it's hard to explain, it's very real, and it's just what I'm researching part time. I've posted about it occasionally. :thumbup:

If you understand the whole observer effect intimately, try to determine when you yourself stop becoming an observer while tripping.  That's when the superposition state builds.  It's exactly the same as Buddhist enlightenment, more exactly, the "great function" described in The Blue Cliff Record, a collection of Zen koans and commentary.  You'll find the same sort of description in certain other key religious texts, they all seem to stem from the same original experience, which maps directly to a human superposed state.
...
...
...
... :thumbup:

:peace:PS



I like the term superposition state, and there is certainly a correlation between observer attitude practice (meditation) and the occasional psychedelic epiphany. (religious experience)

I don't think Quantum Mechanics  ties into the elusive experience except as a thought trigger for something that could be a source of potential insight (i.e. a mental idea layer with a favorable form).

there is something alchemical or scientific about the meditative approach - and similarly about the shamanic approach with ritual preparation of the psychonaut, but the success is occasional.

there are usually a few more things to align, but superposition, and superimposition, are important layering concepts: when any image in mind is suspended and sustained (as in meditation) something shifts and different alignments occur.

when psychedelic drugs are taken, images in mind tend to persist (similar to meditative suspension).
the rest is what a person brings to the table.
there is never any guarantee
but if the layers come together favorably, a stack of mental contents like a standing wave of complex feedback will occur that is effortless, self sustaining, and affirmatively cosmic.
it is not permanent
it is not enlightenment per say, more like samadhi.
but it is such a gift, that many seek it and take it for confirmation of being chosen to bring the light to their people.
and that 'hebrephrenic' complex is certainly a religious type of flaw in the whole thing.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlineflipcode
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19349929 - 12/31/13 05:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think that the last two posts; by godisamushroom and redgreenvines answer the OP best. Many of us - (including myself) got off topic by bringing religion into the discussion.

  :bow2:


--------------------


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Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: godisamushroom]
    #19350079 - 12/31/13 07:32 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

godisamushroom said:
I wouldn't be too quick to associate the word spiritual with religion.

The "Spirit" was thought to be the essence of miracle which allows consciousness. What ever "thing" inside of us and other living things that allows us to feel, act, and sense our external and internal stimuli.

With that out of the way, I'd like to say the "Spirituality" of tripping is letting parts of your mind become exposed to other parts of your mind that normally don't communicate. This allows thoughts like you've never had before, and which you can genuinely learn from.

My hypothesis, is that shrooms can't literally put thoughts into your mind. They can only manipulate what is already in your brain so every thought that you think, every complex geometric visual you see, are all products of your own brain's creation that you've never experienced before.

It just so happens that these thoughts tend to be around things that seem to be in the "bigger picture". The universe, the eternal nature of time, the rationalization that life isn't about individuals, but rather the success or failure of the species' as a whole

The closest thing to religious that I've had with shrooms would either be perhaps the feeling of unification of all things. Feeling one with all other beings. Or feeling like I'm in the presence of an omniscient being. Sometimes I like to think the omniscient being I'm sensing is no more than my unconscious mind communicating with my conscious mind




I like buddhism, mind is the universe

so I am a fraction of the universe looking back at itself, I can never know it all

but I can hope to become one with it all :-)

oneness with all other beings, feeling oneness in everything I see, seeing that I am everything I see
that was kinda spiritual to me, just like you mention

or maybe more like buddhism

you could say it was all in the mind too, that we will never know
but it seems my consciousness has been the same my whole life, and I seem to have the same consciousness to a large degree that my parents had, even though Ive never talked to my father until recently
he was a buddhist all his life, he knows everything I know, his words are my words
met many people who I shared consciousness with to a large degree too, they knew everything I knew
oneness, I am not my thoughts but the controller of own thoughts etc.
usually they meditated too


Edited by lessismore (12/31/13 07:41 AM)


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19350243 - 12/31/13 08:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Aopocetx said:
Quote:

flipcode said:
I think that Theism is the word everyone's looking for.

I'm Agnostic and have no side to fight for, or against--it's such a peaceful place. I have Atheist friends that get in fights to prove there is no god--I think they feel just about as strong of the matter as theist believers do--it all kind of rolls off my shoulders like: "entertaining view, that's pretty cool, how many virgins?".

I like Karma and freedom for all others to chose whatever the heck it is they want to believe--as long as it doesn't hurt others.

Peace!




Exactly! I believe in God greatly but I would never try to argue my position. I can explain why I feel the way I do but I've been in that position and I know that nothing anyone can say would change it.

In the end we're all free to our own unique beliefs.




My theistic beliefs are personal only, but I can share if someone asks me
and then I would only argue from own experience, never from science

I believe both science,religions and meditations have their usefulness as a way of life

My view was exactly like flipcodes, I used to be agnostic for many years

Just acceptance, let people believe what they want to believe, or not to believe

In the end I believe we are all the same inside even though we dont seem to remember ;-)

Tripping seems to show me the illusions of my mind often, just like lucid dreaming
So I am less able to believe I am this body, that what I see around me is real i.e.

What I do believe is what fits my personal experience, that seems to be the only thing I can trust
and then science too
but I dont believe I am this material framework that science dictates (one large coincidence), I just believe science explains most things well

Big bang and quantum theory I am not much in favor of, but everyone has their own favorite theories, I dont believe in coincidences


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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
    #19350440 - 12/31/13 09:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mio said:

In the end I believe we are all the same inside even though we dont seem to remember ;-)





Not to discredit the rest of your post in any way--I just wanted to encapsulate this segment.

The fact that we all are the same--yet so different when it comes to beliefs, and we have not all magically drawn the same conclusions after our "trips" says something important that connects with a bit of everyone's post's.
"Trips" will obviously unlock and re-map some understanding, but it's just as individual and personal as each person that experiences it. While the word "spiritual" is strong and can be adapted to many other beliefs--I can also link it to the feeling of a nice breeze on a hot day, or a moment of silence and sheer connection to my surroundings in nature.

OP:"What makes tripping spiritual?"
I would say that our ability to step outside of normalcy to notice or focus attention on things we commonly overlook might answer this for some. I never got many visuals of walls breathing, etc. but many claim to see some pretty wild stuff. I guess that experience could answer it for others.


--------------------


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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: flipcode]
    #19350717 - 12/31/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What makes tripping spiritual? When you feel the warm blood rushing through your veins and a tear wells in your eye because of the awe from the sheer beauty of nature and you become thankful to be alive.


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19350848 - 12/31/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

what you give is what is returned

any spiritual trippers/gurus will know what that means
it means you must earn your own spirituality continuously

spirituality is a choice, and tripping isnt needed for it
hard work meditating
learn from mistakes
doing ones best to serve others (serve god by serving the god in all)

that is equally possible after a trip or after a meditation and my belief


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OfflineVaultKnowledge
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19350865 - 12/31/13 11:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Aopocetx said:
What makes tripping spiritual? When you feel the warm blood rushing through your veins and a tear wells in your eye because of the awe from the sheer beauty of nature and you become thankful to be alive.




Before I did psychedelics, I would have said you're being overly dramatic. But now, I think you've beautifully answered the question.


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InvisibleMindDrips
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: Aopocetx]
    #19351040 - 12/31/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

Aopocetx said:
What makes tripping spiritual? When you feel the warm blood rushing through your veins and a tear wells in your eye because of the awe from the sheer beauty of nature and you become thankful to be alive.




:seriousthumbsup:
Yes.


--------------------
"Pebbles and marbles like things on my mind,
Seem to get lost and harder to find.
When I am alone I am inclined,
If I find a pebble in sand,
To think that it fell from my hand..."



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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: lessismore]
    #19351149 - 12/31/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

a lot can be noticed sometimes




Like Yogi Berra said, "You can observe a lot just by watching." :lol:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19359472 - 01/02/14 04:32 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

I like the term superposition state, and there is certainly a correlation between observer attitude practice (meditation) and the occasional psychedelic epiphany. (religious experience)

I don't think Quantum Mechanics  ties into the elusive experience except as a thought trigger for something that could be a source of potential insight (i.e. a mental idea layer with a favorable form).

there is something alchemical or scientific about the meditative approach - and similarly about the shamanic approach with ritual preparation of the psychonaut, but the success is occasional.

there are usually a few more things to align, but superposition, and superimposition, are important layering concepts: when any image in mind is suspended and sustained (as in meditation) something shifts and different alignments occur.

when psychedelic drugs are taken, images in mind tend to persist (similar to meditative suspension).
the rest is what a person brings to the table.
there is never any guarantee
but if the layers come together favorably, a stack of mental contents like a standing wave of complex feedback will occur that is effortless, self sustaining, and affirmatively cosmic.
it is not permanent
it is not enlightenment per say, more like samadhi.
but it is such a gift, that many seek it and take it for confirmation of being chosen to bring the light to their people.
and that 'hebrephrenic' complex is certainly a religious type of flaw in the whole thing.




Hmm.  I've read your take on tripping before obviously, and IME the persistence of thoughts isn't the major factor.  If that were so one would never arrive at a clear state beyond thought, but it happens reliably for me, as well as manifestations of reality that are much harder to explain.  But quantum mechanics does explain what occurs for a brain that enters a superposition state, although it doesn't do much at present to explain how this is possible.

However in discussing these phenomena (and some I've not posted about here, 'cause nobody would ever believe it) with another physicist recently we had a lot of congruent thought about both how to explain and how to test it (or to prove it basically) and since that was the course I was following already (physics without replication is philosophy :lol:) I've not changed my mind at all based on real experiential evidence I've already acquired about the phenomena involved.

Nothing is permanent, we all just work with the flow. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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OfflineAopocetx
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Re: What makes tripping spiritual? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19359876 - 01/02/14 05:44 PM (10 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I like the term superposition state, and there is certainly a correlation between observer attitude practice (meditation) and the occasional psychedelic epiphany. (religious experience)

I don't think Quantum Mechanics  ties into the elusive experience except as a thought trigger for something that could be a source of potential insight (i.e. a mental idea layer with a favorable form).

there is something alchemical or scientific about the meditative approach - and similarly about the shamanic approach with ritual preparation of the psychonaut, but the success is occasional.

there are usually a few more things to align, but superposition, and superimposition, are important layering concepts: when any image in mind is suspended and sustained (as in meditation) something shifts and different alignments occur.

when psychedelic drugs are taken, images in mind tend to persist (similar to meditative suspension).
the rest is what a person brings to the table.
there is never any guarantee
but if the layers come together favorably, a stack of mental contents like a standing wave of complex feedback will occur that is effortless, self sustaining, and affirmatively cosmic.
it is not permanent
it is not enlightenment per say, more like samadhi.
but it is such a gift, that many seek it and take it for confirmation of being chosen to bring the light to their people.
and that 'hebrephrenic' complex is certainly a religious type of flaw in the whole thing.




I like the way you think. You showed me an idea I've never thought about and I've thought about psychedelics a lot. I would love to hear more if you want to point me in the direction of another post or something.


--------------------


---------> Acacia confusa trip report <--------

############ DPT HCL trip report with Q&A ###########

Follow my psychedelic instagram @psychedelicpage


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