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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this?
#19337362 - 12/28/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sources include (1) Spiritual Nutrition by Gabriel Cousens, MD (2009) followed by corroborating information by (2) Michael McDonald-Smith in Zig Zag Zen: Buddhism and Psychedelics by Alan Hunt-Badiner (editor) (2002).
Indian and Hebrew terms are used in this writing. Here are definitions from the back of the book:
ojas (S) – vital life force energy and reserve of vital energy prana (S) – vital life force tamasic (S) – one of three gunas or states; the state associated with inertia; a veil of ignorance; sloth; junk food vata (S) – one of the psychophysiological states or doshas in the Ayurvedic system; associated with anxiety, fear, and imbalanced energies sattvic (S) – one of the three gunas or states; a state of holiness that points one inward to the Divine Essenes (H) – esoteric, Kabbalistically oriented Jewish sect Kabbalah (H) – esoteric spiritual path in the Jewish tradition of God-merging; receiving the Divine to share the Divine; Kabbalah is not a book, but a tradition of awakening B'lee mah (H) – the Nothing Mah (H) – with; the What (in juxtaposition to the Nothing, or without What – B'lee mah) avadut (S) – a Liberated Being who lives wild, free, often alone in the forest
Drug Use The use of drugs depletes ojas and deranges the prana and the tejas. A typical ojas-depleting drug is marijuana; others include peyote, psychedelic mushrooms, LSD, ecstasy, cocaine, heroin, amphetamines, and ketamine. One of the most serious problems associated with these herbal and pharmaceutical drugs is their effect of hyperstimulating the serotonin concentrations through a variety of mechanisms to create neuronal destruction from an excess of serotonin, which then becomes oxidized. In this oxidized form, the serotonin is neurotoxic. A healthy serotonergic system acts like a neurochemical anti-stress system, maintaining balance, resilience, inner strength, and a sense of well-being. For this reason, the author considers the serotonin system a functional part of our ojas and general emotional well-being. When it is depleted, so is the ojas.
Evidence of neurotoxicity has accumulated for cocaine, amphetamines, ecstasy (MDMA), and Redux (a Prozac-like drug).[5] Drugs like ecstasy and LSD can boost not only serotonin, but also adrenaline and dopamine.[6] Clinically, the author can physiologically detect the damage for several weeks after someone has taken ecstasy. Lab studies with animals on neuron affects of Redux show that it destroys the branches of the serotonin neurons called axons.[7] In some cases these animal studies showed neurotoxicity when the drugs were administered just for days at dose levels that humans take for up to one year.[8] If the damage was not too severe, the neurons would sprout new branches.[9] The animals could still function with the destruction. The brain has tremendous capacity and reserve, but neuroscientists suggest that the effects of significant damage may not appear until a later age when the brain's neuronal reserve becomes depleted.[10] Research on Redux by Dr. Vina McCann at the National Institute of Mental Health, published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, suggests that neurotoxicity is dependent both on dose level and duration. Redux is often compared to ecstasy as well as Prozac, which both significantly raise serotonin. Studies of ecstasy have shown that when the damaged serotonin neurons sprout new branches, there is a “highly abnormal” brain rewiring that does not follow the original brain pattern.[11] Some of the ecstasy studies, however, have been considered invalid because the researchers used amphetamines instead of ecstasy. The clinical reports of medical symptoms of ecstasy users, however, substantiate the author's concern and warning about the use of ecstasy, so he feels a warning now about its potential danger is as valid as warning about the dangers of cigarette smoking before thirty years of research conclusively proved the toxicity of cigarettes. High amounts of serotonin in the synapses of the neurons can be easily oxidized to form serotonergic neurotoxins.[12] Unfortunately, there is not enough long-term research on any of these drugs individually to make any definitive statements, but it is reasonable to assume that chronic usage or high amounts in one dose have the potential to cause brain damage, at least to the serotonergic neurons, with a concomitant decrease in normal serotonin production and disruption of neuron axons.
Clinical symptoms have been seen in chronic usage of LSD, ecstasy, ketamine, a variety of psychedelic mushrooms, and marijuana. The author has seen many people over the years who have “blown-out” their ojas and other brain functions with these drugs. Symptoms include emotional confusion, memory loss, loss of vital force, adrenal and liver depletion, post-drug depression, psychosis, and a disruption and disorganization of the flow of Kundalini. Kundalini can be disrupted with ayahuasca as well. Some people appear to be untouched by the use of these drugs in the short term, but there remains an unnecessary high risk for too many vulnerable drug users. The most vulnerable are people who have vata constitutions, are vata imbalanced, have been previously diagnosed with mental conditions, have a sensitive nadi system, or are dehydrated. One of the author's sub-specialties is repairing this type of damage as a way to support people's spiritual life, joy, and happiness.
The spiritual life provided by a high-prana diet and lifestyle takes one into the sattvic guna of increased clarity, brightness, and Light of the Divine. To some people, this intensity on spiritual, psychological, and emotional levels may be too intense. Marijuana, peyote, and other drugs that create a more tamasic or numbing state dampen the sattvic effect of a live-food diet. In Yoga, tamas is characterized by a veil of ignorance, sloth, lack of discipline, and lack of will power. Marijuana use, seen in this context, may be used as a way to dampen the prana. There are much safer and better ways to decrease vata, prana, and sattva. This does not mean that one may not get some visions or insights from these drugs, but psychedelic drug use is what is referred to in Ayurveda as sattva in tamas, and long-term use of psychedelics has the potential to keep one in the phenomenology of the astral planes and may retard spiritual development on the highest planes of Kundalini, Self-realization and merging with God. The author does not deny that psychedelic drug use has not been a powerful spiritual catalyst and door opener for many on the planet for their first spiritual experiences beyond the three-dimensional plane of so-called “normal life.” The question is, does the seeker choose to stay standing in the doorway or to walk through? Proper usage of these drugs in ceremony is common in talk, but rare in practice. The use of herbal or synthetic “consciousness drugs” is not the “medicine” way of the Essene and Kabbalistic paths. Their use is highly likely to be harmful in chronic or long-term use.
At this stage of limited research, ayahuasca does not seem to consistently have any problems with short-term or long-term chronic usage.[13] It is important to keep in mind the case study #1 in Chapter 4 – the subject who took ayahuasca after his Kundalini was awakened and suffered severe imbalances. People have felt they have benefited from onetime or occasional ceremonial use, often at the beginning stages of the spiritual path. Many who have been introduced to spiritual life through drug usage may become caught in the illusion of moving deeper on the path through repeated use. This one knows no Realized Being who supports the use of drugs for realization, neither historically nor in the present. That does not mean that ayahuasca taken in its natural setting in the Amazon under traditional shamanic guidance has not been effective in helping people clear up emotional and mental imbalances or helping people connect to the energy of Mother Gaia. Ayahuasca is primarily used by shamans as part of a spiritual healing ceremony. The more important point, however, is that you do not need any dependence on drugs to create these effects or healing. There are many meditators, including this one, who have had such experiences and teachings on a daily basis after the Kundalini awakens. Thinking you need drugs to have this experience creates the illusion of dependency and limits one's freedom to move in any direction in the sacred walk between B'lee mah and Mah in ordinary life. It requires no psychedelics to experience the silent wonderment of “awakened normality” that may be experienced as a result of living the Six Foundations. Once the Kundalini is awakened, the non-causal ecstasy, non-causal peace, and non-causal contentment of life that is our heritage is available regularly. The effect does not “wear off,” there is no “trip” to come down from, and there are no side effects. Awakened normality is our natural state. It does not depend on anything outside of us or anything we need to ingest. Freedom is independent of any external conditions. All we need is to be in the silence that allows us to transcend the limitations of the mind and brain. Drugs confine us to the chemistry of the brain and emotions and therefore limit us in this ultimate sense. The awakened life is about being exquisitely present in this world. This is the true miracle. It is not the limited phenomenological world of drugs; it is the real wow of life, as one dances in the Divine Presence and the whole world becomes alive and shares its sacred walk with you. Sai Baba of Shirdi, a great avadhuta and God-conscious Being, was so omnipresent that it took an average of one hour to walk fifty yards. Do we really need to travel to Brazil to take some drugs to feel alive? Does this really have anything to do with Liberation? The point the author is raising is not whether drugs, synthetic or organic, are dangerous, or have a high risk-to-benefit ratio, or not whether they are a valid path – but rather, where the path leads? For those who indeed have benefited from them as a door opener, are they a path that leads to full Liberation or perhaps only to the doorway? Drugs, like the ego of the mind-body complex they stimulate, must be let go if we are to go all the way to the Nothing. Those who dance in the I AM THAT require no props.
When introduced to other ways of building spiritual awareness, such as meditation and Yoga, often the drug usage significantly diminishes because the seeker has found more sustaining and less potentially toxic ways. As people mature spiritually and have an increasing experience of the non-causal contentment, peace, and joy of sattvic life, drugs gradually stop being considered as a means to evolve spiritually. Once one has the Kundalini awakened, tastes the nectar of sattvic life, and has established a spiritual foundation, drug use simply looks pale. The vast majority of Eastern and Western recognized Self-realized Beings do not recommend drugs as part of a deep spiritual path to Liberation. Mostly these drugs stimulate the phenomenology of astral plane experiences and insights, which is not the goal of Liberation.
Once the Kundalini is awakened, the author strongly recommends one does not do any drugs or harsh Yoga practices that force the Kundalini and interfere with the delicate process that has been activated. Simply supporting the Kundalini unfolding with the Six Foundations is enough. The Sacred Feminine has a Divine unfolding pattern all its own that is best respected and surrendered to. It is a feminine pattern of surrender rather than a masculine path of fitting into a pre-set form or forcing with techniques or drugs. The way of Kundalini is gentle and peaceful, and it knows how to help one through blocks in its own unique unfoldment. People who have had difficulty with Kundalini have typically been those who have tried to force the unfolding with drugs, excessive pranayama, or other extreme practices, or who have pre-existing mental disturbances. Aside from this, the author has seen hardly anyone have difficulty if they maintain their foundations of spiritual practice. The issue of drugs and Self-realization is a topic that serious seekers of spiritual Liberation need to honestly address. (pages 377-381)
5. Glenmullen, Joseph. Prozac Backlash. New York: Simon & Schuster, 2000.
6. Ibid. [this means 'same as above']
7. Ibid.
8. Primary Pulmonary Hypertension from Fenfluramine and Dexfenfluramine: A Systemic review of Evidence,” Journal of the American Medical Association 278 (1997): 666–72.
9. Westphalen, R. I. And Dodd, P. R. “The Regeneration of d,l-Fenfluramine-Destroyed Serotonergic Nerve Terminals,” European Journal of Pharmacology 238 (1993): 399–402.
10. McCann, U. D. Op. cit.
11. Fischer, C., Hatzidimitriou, G., Wlos, J., Katz, J., and Ricaurte, G. “Reorganization of Ascending 5-HT Axon Projections in Animals Previously Exposed to the Recreational Drug (3), 4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA, ‘Ecstacy’),” Journal of Neuroscience 15 (1995): 5476–85.
12. Ibid. Wrona, M. Z., Yang, Z., Zhang, F., and Dryhurst, G. “Potentail New Insights into the Molecular Mechanisms of Methamphetamine-Induced Neurodegeneration,” National Institute on Drug Abuse Research Monograph Series 173 (1997): 146–74.
13. Grob, Charles and Metzner, Ralph. Personal communication. 2004.
More info on drugs from other parts of the book:
Some claim that many patients in mental hospitals are there because of an undiagnosed Kundalini awakening. This has not been the author's experience, neither as a psychiatrist having worked in mental hospitals, nor as a spiritual teacher involved with the subtleties of Kundalini. Manic episodes, spaced-out and disorganized thinking, or intense personal and even spiritual crises are not the same as a Kundalini awakening. Labeling them as such may make people feel good, but adds confusion to the process of getting proper help. It is, however, useful to redefine and appropriately turn the crisis, whatever it is, into an opportunity for psycho-spiritual growth. It has been the author's experience, from the Kundalini Crisis Clinic and in Muktananda's main ashrams in Ganeshpuri, India and South Fallsburg, N.Y., where he often performed in the role of a psychiatrist evaluating and supporting people having serious psychological difficulties, that many of the people who had difficulties with their Kundalini awakening had a previous history of psychotic episodes or a very brittle nervous system. These people would usually be carefully stabilized and compassionately sent back home to continue their spiritual work in a less intense, Kundalini-charged situation. It is important to understand that people with this sort of background do not need to stop their spiritual work, but should be very careful about practices that artificially force the awakening of Kundalini, intensify the energy after the awakening, or that in general amplify the nervous system energy before it is ready, whether or not there has been an awakening. (pages 22-23)
Healing Unbalanced Kundalini Energy Since 1976, when the author and Dr. Lee Sanella started the first Kundalini Crisis Clinic in the world, the author has been working to understand the mystery of how Kundalini works. He has had the unique opportunity and blessing to work directly under Swami Muktananda helping people in the ashram in India and in the U.S. cope with imbalances in Kundalini. He also has had opportunities to work with people around the world in many different traditions, through the Kundalini Crisis Clinic and in his work at the Tree of Life Foundation, who have experienced some sort of difficulty with Kundalini. Fortunately, only a small percentage of people have difficulties. During this time the author has observed and treated a number of very interesting Kundalini crises (which are distinctly different from psycho-spiritual crises), which have given the author some insight. There is almost no current literature that seriously discusses the cause or correction of Kundalini imbalances with any particular insight into the situation in our modern context, so the author has been very much on his own, trying to sort this out. Based on Grace, through the author's scientific observation and the nature of people with several types of Kundalini imbalances, a theory has begun to emerge. The theory is based on several key experiences, described here as “cases,” that represent the key aspects of the model.
Case #1: A man in his twenties had the Kundalini awakened. His teacher suggested that he could enhance this experience with the drug ayahuasca. Immediately after taking the ayahuasca, and for the next year until he met the author, this person suffered extreme Kundalini imbalances. These symptoms included suffering from intense nightmares, night terrors, insomnia, severe nausea, energetic depletion (he hadn't previously been depleted), spaciness, ungroundedness, severe emotional and intuitive imbalances, extreme emotional and psychic sensitivity, and what looked from the outside like extremely depleted ojas (vital life force energy). When the author met him and Graced him with Shaktipat, a rebalancing of the system occurred immediately. The energy began to flow up the sushumna, or central channel, and over the next year the person slowly regained his energy. His night terrors, insomnia, spaciness, and confusion began to recede, and over a year's period of time from receiving Shaktipat, his system came into balance. Supportive therapies included herbs to build ojas, an ojas-building diet and lifestyle with emphasis on minimizing sexual activity, and a homeopathic remedy. The person has now returned to his role as a spiritual teacher full-time and has significantly recovered from the effects of having taken the ayahuasca. (pages 82-83)
The theory of working with unbalanced Kundalini energy is based on the esoteric physiology that has been previously described. There are three granthis, or knots. When the Kundalini is awakened, all three are opened simultaneously, yet these three knots do act as regulators of the flow of the Kundalini. At the base of the spine is the Muladhara granthi. In the author's theory, the disregulation of the flow of Kundalini happens at the Muladhara granthi. In the physiology of the Kundalini, what is known as the kanda region, which is just below the Muladhara, or first, chakra, is where the three basic nadis, the ida, pingala and sushumna, meet and begin at the yukta triveni, just before the entrance to the Muladhara chakra. It is in this region where the disregulation is thought to occur. What happens theoretically is that there is a blockage or disregulation that occurs as the Shakti Kundalini, instead of going straight up through the middle pillar of the sushumna, is diverted through all the 72,000 nadis and chakras with their associated endocrine and nervous system components, imbalancing a variety of vrittis and physiological systems. This blockage or disregulation creates both an imbalanced and, in some cases, irregular flow primarily in the ida and pingala. As it begins to flow in the different directions it tends to significantly affect the adrenals, the base chakra, and the adrenal and kidney energies. An overstimulation of the adrenals, or weakening of the adrenals, tends to weaken the astral field. This opens people up to all sorts of psychic phenomena, creating vata imbalances, nightmares, insomnia, and astral holes. This is made much worse by the use of drugs, which also disrupt the astral field. The person in case #1 who had taken the ayahuasca and immediately began to have these kind of problems, such as vata imbalance, fears, nightmares, insomnia, extreme psychic sensitivity, and emotional and yin exhaustion is an example of this situation. It is very typical, as the energy is imbalancing and stressing the adrenals, that many people with a Kundalini imbalance have a depletion in ojas. This ojas energy is essential for holding the energy of the Kundalini. This is why Yoga practices, a proper diet, and the action of kedusha (holiness) are important for building the energies for building up the ojas as a preparation for awakening and sustaining Kundalini energy. (pages 85-86)
Healing Kundalini Imbalance The prime treatment for Kundalini imbalance from the author's experience is receiving Shaktipat from a Kundalini master (one who is Liberated and who has been initiated in a lineage). In the process of giving transmission of Shaktipat, the astral field of the person in case #1, which had been mainly disrupted and torn by drugs, and was weakened, contracted, and not able the handle the energy as it was brought into the adrenals and kidneys, begins to open to healing and the holes in the field are activated toward healing. (p. 87)
Case #2 is an example where the person had such an egoistic lust for the Divine that he got impatient and began forcing Kundalini with advanced Yogic techniques. This karmic reactivation causes the congestion at the first granthi, which then converts the energy into stressing the adrenals and upsetting the flow of the kidney energies. One of the teachings, therefore, that Gabriel believes prevents people from falling into this egoistic imbalance is explaining the Divine Strategy of Grace and how one must surrender to the unfolding of one's own Kundalini energy. This does require patience, peace, and surrender rather than forcing with excessive Yogic techniques, drugs, or any other excessive techniques. The Kundalini is a feminine energy and by respecting the unfolding of the feminine energy rather than activating the karmas of past lives, of pushing, and of lust, we are able to avoid blocking or causing disregulation. This form of meditation is spontaneous and free-flowing, rather than the masculine concept of forcing and fitting into a form and a technique. This is the mystery of Kundalini – surrendering to the Kundalini and to the Grace that is being given rather than attempting to control the situation. Controlling or forcing comes from an egoistic state of past vasanas of how to deal with spiritual life. They can result in imbalance. (p. 89)
The third part of the treatment is building up the ojas, which is described in Chapter 25. Emphasizing once again that drug usage depletes the ojas and disrupts the astral field, we have the example we have seen in case #1. Asana practice is specifically designed to integrate the Kundalini energies, the chakra systems, the granthis, the nadis, and the koshas (discussed in the next chapter). These definitely help to rebalance the Kundalini energy when done in moderation. (p. 90)
ON THE FRONT LINES: AN INTERVIEW WITH MICHAEL MCDONALD-SMITH
ALLAN HUNT BADINER /
ALLAN HUNT BADINER/ You have many young people attending your meditation retreats. Do you find yourself having to address the issue of psychedelic use?
MICHAEL MCDONALD-SMITH / Yes. The drug issue is right on the front lines. As a meditation teacher, it takes a lot of reflection to present something that’s helpful and relevant in the face of how many choices students have around drugs. From my experience, no matter what kind of deep opening one might have on a drug, it isn’t going to develop one’s ability to have those experiences naturally. Other people might say that drugs are a doorway, but I don’t see it develop anything. It doesn’t develop equanimity, it doesn’t develop investigation, it doesn’t develop any of the factors of enlightenment.
BADINER / What do you see drugs doing?
MCDONALD-SMITH / Drugs take a considerable toll on the body and the mind. They bring all this energy into the system so that it catapults you into a different state of consciousness at the same time that it taxes your body, mind, and heart. You get a sort of beatific view, but actually you’re further down the mountain.
BADINER / Do you think that applies across the board to all psychedelic experiences? Some people use MDMA, or Ecstasy, in conjunction with their meditation, such as metta meditation, and claim the openings that they get from this material translates into real change in their daily lives. Are they deluded?
MCDONALD-SMITH / The initial experience with the drug might help one to experience intention to develop loving-kindness, but the ability to access that on a regular basis takes practice. A drug can’t help you create or develop your ability to practice loving-kindness.
BADINER / So the drug can't get you there, but can it show you that there's somewhere to go?
MCDONALD-SMITH / No. I don't think that a drug experience from five years ago, or three hours ago, is going to make meta accessible for me. It's the willingness to put in the time through oridinary conciousness and develop your ability to practice deeply that allows you to access the mind of loving-kindness when you're in traffic, or at the grocery store, or talking to your kids. To depend on a drug to develop that quality is antithetical to what we would call the development of mind. So while drugs may spark an interest in those states of mind, one always has to assess the toll it takes on the body and the mind.
BADINER / What has been your experience on retreat with people who use?
MCDONALD-SMITH / I've had people who have come to retreats who've done a lot of drugs, and it seems like they don't have the energy to go deep. They've blown it off with drugs. You pay a price for any drug experience. There's no price that your body or mind has to pay to be in retreat and deepen those states naturally.
BADINER / So you feel that it's not only that drugs don't help one along the path, they are actually a hindrance?
MCDONALD-SMITH / On a really deep level of letting go, drugs get in the way. This is especially true for those who are heavily armored.
BADINER / What I hear you saying is the opposite from what some conservative Buddhists might say; that if you're heavily armored and you desperately need an opening, well then, and only then, maybe it would be OK to use a psychedelic. But what you are saying is to avoid drugs particularly then, because they will increase your already strong resistance to doing the hard work.
MCDONALD-SMITH / Right. I’m talking about a deep level of attachment in the mind, where if one is needing to repeat an experience, it is reinforcing that attachment. When a person feels that they need drugs to deepen in their spiritual journey they’re just reinforcing the attachment to those particular states of consciousness.
BAOINER / How is that different from attachment to the state that one reaches in meditation?
MCDONALD-SMITH / In a retreat you're going through sleepiness, you’re going through restlessness, you’re not aiming for a certain state. At least in vipassana practice, which is what I teach, it's not state-oriented. The idea is that freedom isn’t based on any experience, so you’re developing an awareness that isn’t imprisoned by being attached to certain experiences. When you take a drug you're definitely attached to an experience, or you wouldn’t be taking the drug.
BADINER / Have you had personal experience with psychedelics?
MCDONALD-SMITH / I can very happily say that I've had some very deep experiences, even spiritual experiences on drugs.
BADINER / But you don’t recommend them?
MCDONALD-SMITH / I don't. While I did have some very powerful experiences on drugs. I’ve had much deeper and more powerful experiences in meditation. I wasn’t looking for any particular experience when I took the drugs, I took them because my friends thought it would be great if I finally dropped acid or if I finally tried the marijuana brownie. But when you put in the work of going into retreat, you're going to open up and it doesn't take such a toll, and it’s much more dependable in the long run. i recommend doing the work.
BADINER/ So you didn't get attached?
MCDONALD-SMITH/ No. I feel that drugs promote attachment to experience. In terms of my idea of wehat liberation is, they make that deeper letting go of experience itself harder. I really saw this in my own work.
BADINER/ I wonder if you could say more about the distinction between the psychedelic high and the meditation high?
MCDONALD-SMITH/ Meditation strengthens your ability to cope with the ups and downs of life so that you're coping with being depressed, you're coping with being tired, and you're developing an equanimity and an awareness that helps you cope with the downs as well as the ups. In taking the meditative path, you will come out stronger and win in all ways. You learn that you can feel "high" and how to access that when you create the right conditions. Then you can cope with the downs without needing drugs. But what you actually get from drug experience is the desire to take the drugs again. The basic urge is to be free; but true freedom is awareness that isn't tied to experience. The underlying urge is healthy. I really try to support that urge. But drugs don't make it easier in the long karmic trip we are on.
BADINER/ Why do you think so many people feel like psychedelics help?
MCDONALD-SMITH/ There are two aspects to our spiritual journey: one is transformation, the other is transcendence. It can feel like drugs are helping. But each breath that we're really aware of, day by day, in ordinary life, each step we take with awareness will in some ways feel very ordinary initially, but we are cultivating true freedom. You can develop great awareness without drugs. We have twenty-four hours in the day, and there are a lot of moments while we're washing the dishes, while we're driving the car, that we can practice being aware. When we're on retreat we intensify the practice, while we're watching the breath, while we're watching our steps. And we learn through this sometimes incredibly tedious repetition how to have an awareness that's free of any one experience. Any attempts to escape that, or avoid putting in that time just sets you back. In the long run the very attempt to escape itself makes it harder to escape. (pages 195-199)
Edited by s240779 (07/01/15 10:55 PM)
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DetectiveLefty
Nullius in verba



Registered: 10/12/13
Posts: 177
Loc: Floriduh, USA
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779] 2
#19337397 - 12/28/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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"The use of drugs depletes the [new-age bullshit] and the [more new-age bullshit]. This is because [pseudoscience]. Buy my book and take my course."
Got to say I respect McDonald-Smith's perspective a lot more. Drugs can be helpful, but they're not enough by themselves.
-------------------- I swear on a stack of Bibles that everything I said in the above post is the 100% literal Truth.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



Registered: 02/15/12
Posts: 12,278
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: DetectiveLefty]
#19337419 - 12/28/13 03:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DetectiveLefty said: "The use of drugs depletes the [new-age bullshit] and the [more new-age bullshit]. This is because [pseudoscience]. Buy my book and take my course."
Got to say I respect McDonald-Smith's perspective a lot more. Drugs can be helpful, but they're not enough by themselves.
I kinda like this thought too.
Wish it was written with less words that i don't understand in it...
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Psilosopherr] 3
#19337438 - 12/28/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Bunch a fucking bullshit
Some goofy wanna be "new age" gurus trying to force people into their beliefs. They should better Stfu and dont spread this kinda bullshit
meditation is good but lsd is bad, yea right you morons
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FunkyBuddha
Mycophile


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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: rikuni] 1
#19337448 - 12/28/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Damages the branches (axons) of the serotonin neurons" 
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flipcode
FullRetard



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779] 1
#19337466 - 12/28/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Pretty good read and I'd have to say that I agree with most of it. I'm just a bit scared that insightful minds are on the anti-drug side now. I prefer the "Reefer Madness" style propaganda--It's much easier to discredit.
To summarize in an analogy (mostly to see if I understood the message; my teachers tell me I give really good anal- ogies)
If spiritual enlightenment was portrayed as a really hard video game--it's more rewarding to truly master the techniques than it is to simply toss in cheat-codes. Makes perfect sense, unfortunately I'm really bad at some games (cough, cough) and using the cheat codes is the only thing that keeps me interested in the game at all.
Nice read
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: flipcode]
#19337489 - 12/28/13 03:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
flipcode said: Nice read 
Glad you appreciate my efforts.
I'll remind people that I don't subscribe to the information I posted; I'm just throwing it out there. I read it a while ago and I remember that his medical talk about psychedelics causing damage to the neurotransmitters was followed up with a statement/citation for MDMA and amphetamines only, if I remember correctly.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: flipcode]
#19337509 - 12/28/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
flipcode said: Pretty good read and I'd have to say that I agree with most of it. I'm just a bit scared that insightful minds are on the anti-drug side now. I prefer the "Reefer Madness" style propaganda--It's much easier to discredit.
To summarize in an analogy (mostly to see if I understood the message; my teachers tell me I give really good anal- ogies)
If spiritual enlightenment was portrayed as a really hard video game--it's more rewarding to truly master the techniques than it is to simply toss in cheat-codes. Makes perfect sense, unfortunately I'm really bad at some games (cough, cough) and using the cheat codes is the only thing that keeps me interested in the game at all.
Nice read 
I agree with most of what you said.
Good to see a NIN fan on here. I missed the tour due to poor planning I'm still kicking myself, hard, in the crotch for not going.
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Aopocetx
Writer



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Psilosopherr] 1
#19337534 - 12/28/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Gonna have to say bullshit aswell. It's pretty fucking apparent.
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FunkyBuddha
Mycophile


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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19337546 - 12/28/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Like I get the idea of what they're saying, that enlightenment is more fulfilling when worked for rather than attained through psychedelics, which is debatable on its own. But why fill it with bullshit pseudoscience?
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Aopocetx
Writer



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: FunkyBuddha]
#19337583 - 12/28/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FunkyBuddha said: Like I get the idea of what they're saying, that enlightenment is more fulfilling when worked for rather than attained through psychedelics, which is debatable on its own. But why fill it with bullshit pseudoscience? 
Yeah exactly, I understand that part, but who says you can't get both? The enlightenment you get from drugs is different from the real thing - you can achieve both. Why does one have to mean you can't attain the other?
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FunkyBuddha
Mycophile


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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19337643 - 12/28/13 04:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Exactly. I see it as looking at the answers in a maths textbook. You can still do the problem, you just know what you're working towards. The temporary state of enlightenment and serenity provided by psychedelics allows us to become our own teachers and gurus, allowing us to instruct ourselves on the changes we need to make to achieve this state permanently.
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Psilosopherr
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: FunkyBuddha]
#19337661 - 12/28/13 04:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
FunkyBuddha said: Like I get the idea of what they're saying, that enlightenment is more fulfilling when worked for rather than attained through psychedelics, which is debatable on its own. But why fill it with bullshit pseudoscience? 
that is well said
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: FunkyBuddha]
#19337664 - 12/28/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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chakra problems sounds not unlikely to happen with excessive use of psychedelics
I had to work a bit with my energy, it was quite a bit off balance after using psychedelics
a meditation I like is focus on a point in front of you, focus on a point in your body then back and forth quickly notice anything happening
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: lessismore]
#19337689 - 12/28/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mio said: chakra problems sounds not unlikely to happen with excessive use of psychedelics
I had to work a bit with my energy, it was quite a bit off balance after using psychedelics
a meditation I like is focus on a point in front of you, focus on a point in your body then back and forth quickly notice anything happening
hmm, I'm trying to do what you're explaining here. Could you try wording it a little differently?
by back and forth quickly do you mean altering which point you're focusing on between the two? I thought you were trying to focus on them at the same time at first.
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blckmynnse8
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: DetectiveLefty]
#19337803 - 12/28/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
DetectiveLefty said: "The use of drugs depletes the [new-age bullshit] and the [more new-age bullshit]. This is because [pseudoscience]. Buy my book and take my course."
I've found that you can usually get the most important information for free. Joining a group/lodge/order/assram/whatever is also typically not a good idea because any time a person develops influence over other people it nearly always turns into a power trip. The greatest mystics/magicians either left the organizations they started out in or were solitary from the beginning and maybe had one good teacher (sometimes that teacher was not on the physical plane). The shitty ones all started a business based on convincing other people to continually give them money in the form of dues or selling lessons.
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s240779

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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779]
#19337996 - 12/28/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I added definitions for the ayurvedic and Hebrew words (obtained from the glossary in the back of the book).
Edited by s240779 (12/28/13 05:58 PM)
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kapowsin
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779]
#19338311 - 12/28/13 07:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't know about the new age jargon in the introduction, but most of the thoughts outlined in the last section (the interview), I generally agree with. But I certainly wouldn't take a class from this fellow.
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xoanon
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: kapowsin]
#19339001 - 12/28/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm guessing Mr Guru forgot it states in Patanjali 's yoga sutra that certain herbs can be used to achieve higher states. Or perhaps he doesn't believe in the traditional texts of his field.
I certainly believe it is not either/or, but both/and, when it comes to meditation and psychedelics, but that's only my opinion.
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Agentchewy
Pantheism.


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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: xoanon]
#19339105 - 12/28/13 09:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would like to research his citations on the evidence that psychedelics in particular are detrimental on serotonin. Some of the concepts of the toll it takes on your mind needs to be fully explained to me before I consider it.
I could have sworn I just read up on a clinical study showing psychedelics can actually stimulate neurogenesis.
I do agree with him in some instances though.
--------------------
If I knew the way, I would take you home.
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hmmn


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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Agentchewy]
#19339896 - 12/29/13 01:21 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Guys I think I may have blown my ojas.
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s240779

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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: xoanon]
#19340049 - 12/29/13 02:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
xoanon said: I'm guessing Mr Guru forgot it states in Patanjali 's yoga sutra that certain herbs can be used to achieve higher states. Or perhaps he doesn't believe in the traditional texts of his field.
“Siddhis are born of practices performed in previous births, or by herbs, mantra repetition, asceticism, or by samadhi.” (Sutra 4.1) Essentially, for our purposes, this sutra says that via “aushadha,” or herbs/drugs/plants, yogic powers can be attained. While this is fascinating information, unfortunately the sutras say nothing more about the subject, leaving us with many possible questions.
Herbs are a large part of Indian mysticism and most of them do not produce psychedelic experiences.
http://owlsey.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/psychedelics-in-light-of-the-yoga-sutras-more-complete-version/
It is true that even such a classic scripture as Patanjali’s Yoga-Sutra lists herbs (aushadhi, herbal concoctions) as a means of attaining certain paranormal powers. But nowhere does this Sanskrit text state that higher realizations, never mind ultimate enlightenment, can be gained surreptitiously by means of consciousness-altering substances.[10] Indeed, scriptures like the Yoga-Shikha-Upanishad distinguish between artificial and nonartificial powers, emphasizing that only the latter, which arise naturally from one’s persistent spiritual practice, are truly potent, enduring, and also acceptable to the Lord (ishvara).
Lucid Waking: Mindfulness and the Spiritual Potential of Humanity. Feuerstein Georg, Ph.D. (1997), p. 6
Edited by s240779 (02/15/15 10:18 AM)
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779] 1
#19340393 - 12/29/13 06:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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one problem with drugs is they tend to make you addicted suddenly you cannot do your spiritual practice without them even people with much self-control get addicted
another problem is that you dont always control your mind on drugs if you meditate you control your mind 100%
would I like to control my mind most of the time, or be controlled by my thoughts instead?
I think drugs can only be a step into a spiritual practice, when evolving spiritually it is usually easy to see it is a dead-end drugs have an after effect on your thoughts that can last days/weeks/months/years
meditation can do the same, or lucid dreaming if you want to trip (better than any trip)
I wouldnt mind trading 10 LSD trips for 1 lucid dream if you can do it naturally there would be no reason to use drugs if you can get high on a walk in nature/by having houseplants/pets/playing guitar there would be little reason to use drugs everyday (weed i.e.)
drugs are often an escape even though we dont admit it escape from stress
instead of reducing the stress, it is a dead end that way
body and mind feels best without adding anything, that is my logic but without psychedelics (LSD/mushrooms) I would never have remembered my spirituality maybe
I still like to trip rarely for fun, it gets more and more rare with time automatically it seems but I quit weed, it wasnt my thing psychedelics have helped me make change after the trips, so I do what I dont regret, I dont regret doing them :-) , they have been very helpful, never any regrets afterwards
Edited by lessismore (12/29/13 06:21 AM)
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: lessismore]
#19340400 - 12/29/13 06:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is the newworld order and illuminati.. they do not want people to think... so they make people steer away fro psycadellica..
Honestly.. once in a while I think them nessesery.. had we not been poisoned with flouride and the like.. we could have meditated .. we still can, but Without psycadellica.. one often gets a bit off track...
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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s240779

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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? *DELETED* [Re: lessismore]
#19340448 - 12/29/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by Da2raReason for deletion: irrelevant
Edited by s240779 (12/29/13 06:49 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779]
#19340632 - 12/29/13 08:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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oh well, there is a modicum of harm reduction but too much carney:
Quote:
Since 1976, when the author and Dr. Lee Sanella started the first Kundalini Crisis Clinic in the world, the author has been working to understand the mystery of how Kundalini works.
that's terrific: start kundalini clinic before you understand how it works.
the blind leading the blind here - probably hoping that ancient terms and mantras will keep them safe.
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_ 🧠 _
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779]
#19340691 - 12/29/13 08:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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that is why I never meditated on LSD really
I just observed nature, it is still as magical without LSD as with LSD
sometimes rarely I like to trip to trip, but seems that doesnt work anymore either nothing happens
I never close my eyes on LSD trips, it is too intense/unpleasant
observing in nature and closing eyes in nature, that is nice :-) best feeling ever
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Aopocetx
Writer



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: lessismore]
#19340880 - 12/29/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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He talks about neurotoxicity on like a metaphysical level which is bullshit. There's only the physical when it comes to neurotransmitters.
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19340902 - 12/29/13 10:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The psycadellica will kill you... but what the fuck is wrong with that?
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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hmmn


Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 372
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: lessismore]
#19341090 - 12/29/13 11:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
mio said: one problem with drugs is they tend to make you addicted suddenly you cannot do your spiritual practice without them even people with much self-control get addicted
another problem is that you dont always control your mind on drugs if you meditate you control your mind 100%
would I like to control my mind most of the time, or be controlled by my thoughts instead?
I think drugs can only be a step into a spiritual practice, when evolving spiritually it is usually easy to see it is a dead-end drugs have an after effect on your thoughts that can last days/weeks/months/years
meditation can do the same, or lucid dreaming if you want to trip (better than any trip)
I wouldnt mind trading 10 LSD trips for 1 lucid dream if you can do it naturally there would be no reason to use drugs if you can get high on a walk in nature/by having houseplants/pets/playing guitar there would be little reason to use drugs everyday (weed i.e.)
drugs are often an escape even though we dont admit it escape from stress
instead of reducing the stress, it is a dead end that way
body and mind feels best without adding anything, that is my logic but without psychedelics (LSD/mushrooms) I would never have remembered my spirituality maybe
I still like to trip rarely for fun, it gets more and more rare with time automatically it seems but I quit weed, it wasnt my thing psychedelics have helped me make change after the trips, so I do what I dont regret, I dont regret doing them :-) , they have been very helpful, never any regrets afterwards
Hmmm...I disagree that meditation gives you 100% control over the mind. It hasn't done that for anybody I've met. I've yet to meet a spiritual teacher who thought that mind control was the purpose of meditation, either. My impression of Buddhist meditation is that it increases the availability of awareness and reduces the sheer volume of activity in the mind. This allows more influence over the mind, but nothing like 100% control.
I also disagree with the notion that psychedelic drugs can only be a stepping stone onto the path; that their continued, regular use for the purpose of spirituality is a mistake. When I talk about psychedelics, I'm talking about LSD, psilocin, mescaline, and so on; not marijuana or dissociatives.
I see psychedelic drugs as an integral part of my Buddhist practice. I use them between zero and a dozen times a year, depending on what's going on. I find that using psychedelics accelerates the rate at which my negative karma dissolves by catalyzing experiences of my own karma that I would not otherwise have. Purifying one's karma is very important in many spiritual paths. I also find that psychedelics give me helpful reminders of the purpose of Buddhist practice and the correct way to use it, by offering an utterly transient glimpse into true perception of reality.
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: hmmn]
#19341112 - 12/29/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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^ The truth is within.
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occollegeboi
MushroomSpaceGod



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Eclipse3130]
#19341439 - 12/29/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't even read the entire op, but all I have to say is that the brainwaves of people on psychedelics are exactly the same as the brainwaves seen by tibetan monks who meditate all day.
So I call bullshit on this article.
A lot of the words used in this article (ojas, tejas, etc) are, I'm assuming, indian words, from india. When you consider that drug possession over there is punishable by WAY WAY WORSE consequences than here in america, of course they're not going to have strong positive opinions on drugs.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: occollegeboi]
#19341488 - 12/29/13 01:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
occollegeboi said: I didn't even read the entire op, but all I have to say is that the brainwaves of people on psychedelics are exactly the same as the brainwaves seen by tibetan monks who meditate all day.
So I call bullshit on this article. A lot of the words used in this article (ojas, tejas, etc) are, I'm assuming, indian words, from india. When you consider that drug possession over there is punishable by WAY WAY WORSE consequences than here in america, of course they're not going to have strong positive opinions on drugs.
veryy good points!
In china, my friend told me when he was there he was told that people get executed over drug charges
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s240779

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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#19341501 - 12/29/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What? That's not a good point at all. Gabriel Cousens lives in Arizona for fucks sake. One of the most liberal states in the U.S. Indian mysticism doesn't have much to do with Indian politics.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779]
#19341510 - 12/29/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: What? That's not a good point at all. Gabriel Cousens lives in Arizona for fucks sake. One of the most liberal states in the U.S. Indian mysticism doesn't have much to do with Indian politics.
mostly the identical brainwaves deal
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779]
#19341512 - 12/29/13 01:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The I will die, a martyr, right?
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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s240779

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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? *DELETED* [Re: s240779]
#19341573 - 12/29/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Post deleted by Da2raReason for deletion: derailing my own thread
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779]
#19341591 - 12/29/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I really should try some more micro dosing experiments..
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Aopocetx
Writer



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#19341604 - 12/29/13 01:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Small doses always piss me off. I'm not quite sober where I could do regular things but at the same time I'm not high enough to get anything out of the experience. But that's just me I suppose.
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Psilosopherr
A psilly goose



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Aopocetx]
#19341609 - 12/29/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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last time I micro dosed, it affected me enough that I started to get really stressed out over small things. Made me really uncomfortable (mainly due to my father saying hurtful things though)
Showed me that it does have effect, at least with me.
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dark3st
Stranger


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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Psilosopherr]
#19341658 - 12/29/13 01:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
. Other people might say that drugs are a doorway, but I don’t see it develop anything. It doesn’t develop equanimity, it doesn’t develop investigation, it doesn’t develop any of the factors of enlightenment.
It sounds like a persuasive technique used by rehabs.
This whole thing is bullshit. I mean for real chakras? That's the most thing I ever read or when people tell me about it in RL I tell them to leave me alone because it is, in fact, bullshit.
-------------------- Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this. OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.
no stamps atm FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA members ONLY I have these seeds: Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779]
#19341884 - 12/29/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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So, criticizes all psychedelic drugs and then proceeds to say.. "Evidence of neurotoxicity has accumulated for cocaine, amphetamines, ecstasy (MDMA), and Redux (a Prozac-like drug)."
So he says that psychedelic drugs are neurotoxic but doesn't provide any evidence to back up his statement? And he focuses on Redux!? That's not a psychedelic so it's of no importance.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779]
#20036318 - 05/24/14 09:02 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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More:

Source: The Code to The Matrix, p. 92, James Evans Bomar III, 2009 http://realmdynamics.com/pages/our-founder, Scroll down for book.
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TrippingTrees
Just passing by


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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779] 1
#20050330 - 05/28/14 07:38 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Don't give a shit. I'll decide how I develop spiritually, emotionally, and physically. I don't need an outside opinion on how to live my life. It's good to get other perspectives but at the end of the day....I make the choices.
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DiscoBiscuitsTrip


Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1,422
Loc: FL
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: TrippingTrees]
#20050438 - 05/28/14 08:19 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wtf is a "vital life force energy" if its so vital to my life id be fucked by now haha. And if it has anything to do with physical energy drugs like LSD definitely fill me with a lot of energy about my life and the world around me. Also reaching enlightenment without drugs sounds awesome, but if you were to actually try and do that you would be labelled a crazy person in our western culture. honestly I don't think it would even be possible in our culture, and that's why we have psychedelics because we live in a crazy fast world were meditating and fasting your whole life isn't going to work. Another thing who is this guy to say he knows the answer, is he claiming to have reached enlightenment, no fuck him no one knows the correct answer to questions like these; live in the mystery not everything can be measured and gauged.
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Edited by DiscoBiscuitsTrip (05/28/14 08:26 AM)
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UKMunter
No stranger to website



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: DiscoBiscuitsTrip]
#20050537 - 05/28/14 08:53 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Wow I read enough !! ! I have depression. I have read into this way of looking into well being
http://ayurvedaa2z.com/php/showContent.php?linkid=72#
Have a read of this short Ayurvedaa look.
But of course you have to look at this from a completely different out look in life... It is a nice article and yes it is an eastern look into well being and a very clever understanding of brain activity and chemistry way before science .... .. ^^^ WTF is vital life force .. ^^^^ Check you out dude.. Well done
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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DiscoBiscuitsTrip


Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1,422
Loc: FL
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20050573 - 05/28/14 09:07 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dude i'm a spiritual person but when they start doing shit like this and naming and labeling everything it just makes me think religion, I've taken plenty of psychedelic drugs and mdma, but I take care of myself and go on raw food diets and am vegetarian. I feel better than I ever have, I used to be depressed, have anxiety and all that other stuff and its easy to blame it one some bullshit like this but it simply comes down to taking really good care of yourself, the earth, the good people around you, and staying positive. This new age stuff is getting to be way to much and its just becoming a new religion in our culture. If it helps you then hell yea but the best way to live is to think for yourself and take everything you read on the INTERNET with a grain of salt.
To me the whole new age thing is just like believing healing powers from rocks. I mean like yea its cool and the rocks are pretty but I don't think having one in my pocket is going to do something special for me. I keep them around but its not like I have a serious belief of there powers.
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Edited by DiscoBiscuitsTrip (05/28/14 09:12 AM)
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UKMunter
No stranger to website



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: DiscoBiscuitsTrip]
#20050582 - 05/28/14 09:10 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Superbly said xx
Thank you, and glad you are out of your depression
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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DiscoBiscuitsTrip


Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1,422
Loc: FL
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20050626 - 05/28/14 09:24 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Not hating on the New age thing I mean some of its cool and all, but I have to put this here thought it was funny. http://sebpearce.com/bullshit/
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UKMunter
No stranger to website



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: DiscoBiscuitsTrip]
#20050663 - 05/28/14 09:33 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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he he ! ok .. I am not into the new age thing at all, nor spiritualism and certainly not religion . Oh bugger I guess im just a junkie who prefers the use of active shrooms to kick my serotonin levels about a bit than SSRI's ....
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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DiscoBiscuitsTrip


Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1,422
Loc: FL
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter] 1
#20050672 - 05/28/14 09:35 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Junkie? no that's what our society says, the real junkies are the ones taking SSRI's and Opiates. But then again there's no such thing as a bad drug and there's no such thing as a good drug just depends on how your using it.
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: DiscoBiscuitsTrip]
#20050675 - 05/28/14 09:36 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
UKMunter said: Oh bugger I guess im just a junkie who prefers
Interesting. Do you ever use low doses -- using mushrooms for a medication-type effect as opposed to tripping?
Quote:
DiscoBiscuitsTrip said: But then again there's no such thing as a bad drug and there's no such thing as a good drug just depends on how your using it.
I definitely think some drugs are down right bad, both natural and synthetic.
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DiscoBiscuitsTrip


Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1,422
Loc: FL
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779]
#20050703 - 05/28/14 09:41 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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idk you could say opiates are bad but they really help people with pain, you could say ssri's are bad but they help a lot of people with anxiety if used properly, you could say cocaine is bad but also can be used medically and help people be more social. Its all about the right set, setting, and dosage. I mean there could be a positive use for almost all the mainstream drugs.
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: DiscoBiscuitsTrip] 1
#20050728 - 05/28/14 09:48 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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If people can figure their shit out taking substances, than all of those new agers will have a real hard time selling their books, CDs, crystals and shit. So of course they're gonna bad mouth anything that cuts into their wallet.
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UKMunter
No stranger to website



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: DiscoBiscuitsTrip]
#20050729 - 05/28/14 09:48 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hello Da2ra .. Not really..
I have seen this article on facebook too .. I had to comment there as in this case it had touched on a personal level.
I would defo use micro amounts for depression of course !! I love taking larger amounts im not going to turn the opportunity down ! I belive that it would be a great alternitive to SSRI's. But both have the same outcome on comedowns ect... You just get depressed !! > ^^^ Well being is pretty much what Disco buiscuit is saying .. A good diet, a good look into life,, not prozac or active drugs tbh ...
I dont believe for the same reasons that marijuana should be legalised, BUT please lets not go there in this discussion .. !! ha
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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UKMunter
No stranger to website



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20050742 - 05/28/14 09:51 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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My use of active shrooms, is because its bloody nice .. Not for medicinal or spiritual..
I dont take SSRI's because I know what they do in relation to having shrooms too >> !!
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20050748 - 05/28/14 09:54 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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UKMunter, sho me the facebook page.
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UKMunter
No stranger to website



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: s240779]
#20050766 - 05/28/14 09:59 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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oh my .. it was on the shroomery, a week or two back, let me dig !!
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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DiscoBiscuitsTrip


Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1,422
Loc: FL
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20050791 - 05/28/14 10:07 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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One important lesson I've learned recently going on what Dark Star said is almost everyone is a used car sales man, they all want to sell you there shit so you'll either buy into it with your time or money. So just believe in yourself and question everything.
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UKMunter
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20050807 - 05/28/14 10:11 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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UKMunter
No stranger to website



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20050966 - 05/28/14 10:43 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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Personally Da2ra . I would prefer practising these techniques, > I loved reading up on Dosha ect.
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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Jot



Registered: 10/25/13
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter] 1
#20051079 - 05/28/14 11:18 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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I like my Ojas toasted
-------------------- The goal of spiritual life is not altered states, but altered traits
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1314697
Ight guy



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Jot]
#20052229 - 05/28/14 04:30 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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The new "weeds amazing and not a drug" thing, I see slot of annoying posers. Probably the same for psychedelics.
-------------------- Far beyond Lost in Space
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Nihon_Hyperspace
既視感


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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: dark3st]
#20052251 - 05/28/14 04:33 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
dark3st said:
Quote:
. Other people might say that drugs are a doorway, but I don’t see it develop anything. It doesn’t develop equanimity, it doesn’t develop investigation, it doesn’t develop any of the factors of enlightenment.
It sounds like a persuasive technique used by rehabs.
This whole thing is bullshit. I mean for real chakras? That's the most thing I ever read or when people tell me about it in RL I tell them to leave me alone because it is, in fact, bullshit.
He just went full retard, never go full retard
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zzripz
Stranger


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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Nihon_Hyperspace] 1
#20052291 - 05/28/14 04:42 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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The New Age is part of the patriarchal belief system which is dualistic, AND what has been infiltrated into the psychedelic movement by the elite's 'Intelligence' agents!
Yes, some New Age beliefs are anti psychedelics, but also some seem pro but also make sure to push their New Age BS. Pushing the occult via Aleister Crowley.
So fuck with the new Age --it is evil. it looks at nature and the body as an illusion. Psychedelics wisely used can help you see through toxic myths that devide you from yourself and nature, and this is why they fear it and seek to subvert the experience through mind control.
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bass head
Oh... Nice.



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: zzripz]
#20052362 - 05/28/14 04:57 PM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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anyone is free to make use of any religion to further their agenda as it pertains to substances. there were some new age teachings that once guided me towards a more psychedelic mindset. the same is true with buddhism and hinduism. there are surely many people within these faiths that would disagree with my opinions. make use of the world that's at your disposal.
-------------------- Steal your bass right off your head.
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UKMunter
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: bass head]
#20060346 - 05/30/14 09:42 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why does tripping out have any connection with religion and spiritualism .. ??
I believe that to be an honest question. I'm not deliberately stepping on toes here, I do though believe that I might offend. Thing is the whole idea of taking mushrooms is different for me. I don't see why humanity is how it is because my brain chemistry has gone fucked up through poisoning, and because I can see things how there meant to be maaan !! . Fuck off spiritualism and as we see some religion and new age beliefs. Your taking a substance that's all in ya head maaaan !!
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20060361 - 05/30/14 09:47 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well first off, your brain isn't "poisoned" by mushrooms. The active chemicals are closely related to our own neurotransmitters, and bind to those neurotransmitters' receptor sites. Second off, everything is a chemical reaction, including your normal thought processes & perception of "reality".
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UKMunter
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Dark_Star]
#20060369 - 05/30/14 09:50 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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^^ Yes .. That's it, reality !! It's nice I guess to have faith
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20060381 - 05/30/14 09:54 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Our perception of reality may be very far from the truth through. Physics, particularly quantum physics, keep throwing monkey wrenches in what we believe to be real/true.
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UKMunter
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Dark_Star]
#20060401 - 05/30/14 10:03 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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LoL . Hey just what you see !!
Quantum physics ... ?
I believe that the perception of truth is being more and more stretched as science progresses yes, of course. Spiritualism and religion though. I don't think there is a big enough wrench amongst beliefs.
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
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Loc: Uranus
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20060422 - 05/30/14 10:10 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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The way I see it, if it helps people out in their lives & whatnot, and they're not forcing it down my throat, who am I to judge and/or give a shit? Now if they are trying to force it down my throat, well then we have problems.
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flickedbic
Sojourner



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Dark_Star]
#20060455 - 05/30/14 10:18 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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I would not throw the baby out with the bath water here.
Quote:
Some people appear to be untouched by the use of these drugs in the short term, but there remains an unnecessary high risk for too many vulnerable drug users. The most vulnerable are people who have vata constitutions, are vata imbalanced, have been previously diagnosed with mental conditions, have a sensitive nadi system, or are dehydrated.
^These are the contraindications for heavy psychedelic use as quoted in the OP.
Besides Nadi stabilization* and hydration; it looks like calming Vata is the primary concern. So;
Quote:
To counteract the drying, chilling, crazy-making quality of too much Vata, Ayurvedic wisdom recommends enjoying food, spices and drink possessing the opposite qualities. A Vata balancing diet includes nourishment that is warming, hydrating and grounding. This includes foods such as thick soups, whole grains and cooked, dark leafy greens made succulent with good fat sources and zesty with the addition of such flavors as ginger, mustard seed, nutmeg and cardamom.
Read more: http://www.ehow.com/facts_7437981_vata-balancing-diet.html#ixzz33DSL6fxz
Sounds like a good way to eat the week of a psychedelic experience.
*Quote:
The most powerful method of balancing ida and pingala is Nadi Shodhana, alternate-nostril breathing. (Literally, the Sanskrit means “nadi cleansing.”) This practice is effective because the ida nadi is directly connected to the left nostril, and the pingala nadi to the right. A few rounds of this basic Pranayama technique at the end of an asana practice are an excellent way to help restore equilibrium between the two nadis and to compensate for any imbalance you may have inadvertently caused during your practice.
http://marinayoga.wordpress.com/2013/04/30/nadis-nadi-shodana-and-the-nervous-system/
-------------------- Favorite entheogen experiences in descending order: 1)Combo of oral DMT + smoked Bufotenine 2)Amanita (urine drank twice) 3)Mushrooms > Achuma 16"+cid(still need higher dose Achuma)> Cid (still need high dose) 4)Morning Glory-HBWR (+cumin, cinnamon aldehyde adducts) > Methyl chavicol (need more activators) 5)Salvia (need to try quid)
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious... any similarities to real life are purely coincidental. Blessing.
Edited by flickedbic (05/30/14 10:21 AM)
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UKMunter
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Dark_Star]
#20060476 - 05/30/14 10:23 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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That's just simple respects in both respects !
Fair enough dude, just glad I wasn't pulled into a quantum physical debate there !!! >
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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UKMunter
No stranger to website



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20060511 - 05/30/14 10:31 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Love reading up on any stuff like this .> Yoga ! ... Now I have heard that crossing your legs doesn't do your circulation any good .. ! See while I am stressing my heart out, i'm also giving better serotonin levels to my head !! > hahaha ..
Earth, Water, Fire the elements of our bodies. These need to be balanced by either a good steak and a beer. Or Yoga, or Dosha techniques ... hmmm yummy to me
^^ nice read x
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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Aiko Aiko



Registered: 05/13/05
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20060556 - 05/30/14 10:48 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
UKMunter said: LoL . Hey just what you see !!
Quantum physics ... ?
I believe that the perception of truth is being more and more stretched as science progresses yes, of course.
As has been the case since the beginning of "science." And yes, I put quotes around science because science too is purely based on perception and perception makes up "reality." So if reality is not what it seems, either is science...
-------------------- Easily test the dosage of your tabs at home! qtests.org Man says, "God, show me and I will believe." God says, "Believe and I will show you."
Edited by Aiko Aiko (05/30/14 10:49 AM)
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UKMunter
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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: Aiko Aiko]
#20060601 - 05/30/14 11:01 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Think that was what Dark star was touching on .
So what are you saying ? I cant see you point . The further humanity progresses in science the less it actually exists >?
-------------------- Everlasting Gob Stopper hedges .... .. . Yes I loved that rug .... .
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Aiko Aiko



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Re: 'New age' criticism of psychedelic drugs / What do you think of this? [Re: UKMunter]
#20060707 - 05/30/14 11:29 AM (9 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well, I guess perception can be subjective or objective. Science is the objective approach to our perceptions, so my original claim fails, haha!
-------------------- Easily test the dosage of your tabs at home! qtests.org Man says, "God, show me and I will believe." God says, "Believe and I will show you."
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