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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
    #21358902 - 03/03/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

alrighty.  i'll try to come up with something.  i'm still in snow up to my gonads.  what else is there to do?


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21358911 - 03/03/15 11:29 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RuralAnomaly said:
well, i don't FEEL like one.

whats the significance of this one?  supposed to protect my hepa-hepa?





I stumbled upon this chemical while searching for snake venom (for mating/hybridizing mushrooms). These two links are worth browsing:


http://www.chinavivers.com/html/373.html

http://biz.everychina.com/zjesse-r/z218fa62-poria_cocos_powder.html


It looks like this chemical has multiple scientific/medical uses, among them are analgesic and anti-inflammatory activation. Check this URL for more: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23495748


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Offlinemyceliups
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
    #21360503 - 03/04/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Interesting!!


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21365173 - 03/05/15 09:20 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RuralAnomaly said:
alrighty.  i'll try to come up with something.  i'm still in snow up to my gonads.  what else is there to do?





Let's go, slacker :laugh:


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
    #21367999 - 03/05/15 07:59 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

i lied about nothing to do.  i had to move snow. ha ha blah
and i got a few trees tapped when it warmed up.  back to zero again.
yeesh.

anyway, here goes.  surprised its not been up yet (per the list) but since i've been looking at things that look similar perhaps ya'll have too.

i believe its found in great abundance (relative to other things) in many fungi, if not all (a layman's assumption)



not my drawing, not my pic

as part of the answer - please tell us why its abundant, and what functions it serves (briefly) and maybe any analogues of interest


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21380838 - 03/08/15 10:44 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I'll take a hint. Is this a steroid or based off of a steroid skeleton?


The mushroom is Agaricus bisporus.


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
    #21384837 - 03/09/15 10:32 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

yes.  this would be a steroid, more specifically a sterol.

that gives it a polar end, on what is primarily a blob of fat.  kinda like soap.  only short n fat like a wiggly maggot instead of a skinny lil nematode.


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21387033 - 03/10/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Is it Ergosterol, and if so, why am I seeing so many different varieties of this skeleton?


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
    #21390556 - 03/10/15 10:24 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

well thats what i was calling it.  mostly cuz thats what it said it was when i googled for images rather than me knowing - which is always a rather high probability scenario to make mistakes but it seemed to match up ok with the wiki one
unless i missed something = another high probability

what kind of variation are you seeing?

tell us a couple things about it maybe and then your go.


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21392069 - 03/11/15 10:17 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

what kind of variation are you seeing?





From icgeb.org




From biocyc.org




From Chemspider




From Pubchem NCBI




From Wikipedia




I think these are just different ways of saying the same thing, but it would be nice to know the basis for the differences.


Quote:

tell us a couple things about it maybe and then your go.





I never thought I'd have to stay late for class - especially at this site. Ergosterol is the provitamin form of Vitamin D2. When Ergosterol is exposed to ultraviolet (UV) light it causes a chemical reaction that produces vitamin D2. Ergosterol is to fungi - in many regards - what cholesterol is to humans. It is also used as a target in antifungal applications.

Ergosterol is found within many species of fungi (in their cell membranes) and many fungi could not survive without it. Ergosterol can be created by various types of enzymes.

An analog of Ergosterol is Ergosteryl 3-β-D-glucoside. I am sure there are others, but a brief search did not provide anything solid.


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
    #21395248 - 03/11/15 09:42 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

i think all the pichers are the same?  some are the kind that show you by the dark triangle thingy that its supposed to represent sticking out of the plane of the page; dashed ones are 'down' and aren't labeled as methyl units but instead the hydrogens are put in.  on some they're both labeled.  i have to admit i didn't study them intently for too long.  i'm pooped.

regarding the ergosterol's role, i was thinking more along the lines as to why its so plentiful (and wonder why dietary cholesterol is given such a bad rap)

it also made me wonder how the ergosterol would be incorporated into our cholesterol bank in our own bodies.


if nobody wants to read this rather large cut and paste thats just FINE, but i thought this was well written and easy to understand (and applicable to this chemical)


http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Cholesterol-Cell-Membrane.html


Molecule for molecule, cholesterol can make up nearly half of the cell membrane.1 Since it is smaller and weighs less than other molecules in the cell membrane, it makes up a lesser proportion of the cell membrane's mass, usually roughly 20 percent.2

Cholesterol is also present in membranes of organelles inside the cells, although it usually makes up a smaller proportion of the membrane. For example, the mitochondrion, the so-called "power-house" of the cell, contains only three percent cholesterol by mass, and the endoplasmic reticulum, which is involved in making and modifying proteins, is six percent cholesterol by mass. 3

Cholesterol Maintains the Integrity of the Cell Membrane

Surrounding each of our cells is a membrane called the plasma membrane. The plasma membrane is a continuous double-layer of phospholipids, interweaved with cholesterol and proteins. Phospholipids are composed of two fatty acids attached to a phosphate compound as a head.

The phosphate head is water-soluble, also called "hydrophilic" (water-loving), and the fatty-acids are water-insoluble, or "hydrophobic" (water-fearing). Since outside the cell is a water-containing, or aqueous, environment, and inside the cell is also aqueous, the phosphate heads of the phospholipids face both the cell's inside and the environment outside the cell, while the fatty acids face the inside of the membrane.

The membrane is fluid, and the molecules are always moving. It has about the same consistency as olive oil.

Cholesterol is an amphipathic molecule, meaning, like phospholipids, it contains a hydrophilic and a hydrophobic portion. Cholesterol's hydroxyl (OH) group aligns with the phosphate heads of the phospholipids. The remaining portion of it tucks into the fatty acid portion of the membrane.

Because of the way cholesterol is shaped, part of the steroid ring (the four hydrocarbon rings in between the hydroxyl group and the hydrocarbon "tail") is closely attracted to part of the fatty acid chain on the nearest phospholipid. This helps slightly immobilize the outer surface of the membrane and make it less soluble to very small water-soluble molecules that could otherwise pass through more easily.4

Without cholesterol, cell membranes would be too fluid, not firm enough, and too permeable to some molecules. In other words, it keeps the membrane from turning to mush.

Cholesterol Helps Maintain the Fluidity of Cell Membranes

While cholesterol adds firmness and integrity to the plasma membrane and prevents it from becoming overly fluid, it also helps maintain its fluidity.

At the high concentrations it is found in our cell's plasma membranes (close to 50 percent, molecule for molecule) cholesterol helps separate the phospholipids so that the fatty acid chains can't come together and cyrstallize.5

Therefore, cholesterol helps prevent extremes-- whether too fluid, or too firm-- in the consistency of the cell membrane.

Cholesterol Helps Secure Important Proteins in the Membrane

The plasma membrane contains many proteins that perform important functions like channeling or pumping substances into and out of the cell, attaching to other cells, forming borders to keep other proteins in one specific part of the cell, communicating with nearby cells, or responding to endocrine hormones from far-away cells.

Because certain proteins' size or shape requires a thicker phospholipid bed to sit in, and because certain proteins need to stick together to function properly, the fluidity of the cell membrane, where the molecules are constantly moving randomly, could pose a problem.

Fortunately, the plasma membrane contains many lipid rafts where proteins are secured. A lipid raft contains high concentrations of cholesterol and sphingolipids-- a type of phospholipid-- containing longer and more saturated fatty acid tails.

Because the fatty acids are longer and more saturated (straighter), they aggregate more, which cholesterol also helps. That part of the membrane is also thicker, making it ideal for accommodating certain proteins.6

Since the fatty acids in lipid rafts are longer, the phospholipids also move in sync with the phospholipids on the other side of the membrane.

In the rest of the membrane, the phospholipids on one side of the membrane move independently of those on the other.7

By stabilizing certain proteins together in lipid rafts, cholesterol is important to helping these proteins maintain their function.

This could range from forming blood clots or thinning blood, to allowing sugar into your cells, to burning fat, to regulating calcium in your blood, and literally includes, in some way, most of the functions in your body, although which proteins exist in lipid rafts and which do not is still being researched.

It is the proteins, after all, by which cells communicate with one another. If cells didn't communicate with one another, you and I would be a large pile of unrelated cells rather than the individuals that we are.


reading this made me wonder "do  mushrooms/fungi have mitochondria?"
- i'll let u know if i find out soon...  or someone can tell me.  i'm cool with that

and you're up Sparky, but remember kids, anyone is welcome to play! now's a good time to jump right in! 

*looks fixedly at Joust*


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21395471 - 03/11/15 10:52 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

*looks fixedly at Joust*




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InvisibleTimmiTM
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21396045 - 03/12/15 04:17 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RuralAnomaly said:
reading this made me wonder "do  mushrooms/fungi have mitochondria?"
- i'll let u know if i find out soon...  or someone can tell me.  i'm cool with that



Yes, fungi have mitochondria. All eukaryotes do (almost).


--------------------
"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: TimmiT]
    #21396502 - 03/12/15 08:09 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

thanks TimmiT, i did a quick google after i logged out but i was too bleary to do much reading.

mitochondria are fascinating lil buggers.  if i remember what i did scan quickly, they're doing dna analysis of tons of them now and (i think) they're finding that they have a bacterial origin laced with eukaryotic genes.

crazy shit that


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InvisibleTimmiTM
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21396659 - 03/12/15 08:53 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

It's an interesting story of endosymbiosis. The theory goes that around 2 million years ago an ancestor of the eukaryotic cell was munching on other unicellular organisms, when it came across a bacterium that survived the endocytosis. The formerly free-living organism took up residence in the larger cell and the two formed a symbiotic relationship creating a single, more complex organism.


--------------------
"Reality leaves a lot to the imagination" ~ John Lennon


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: TimmiT]
    #21399575 - 03/12/15 08:02 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

:havesomescience:

awesome


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21413359 - 03/15/15 09:14 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Seasonally adjusted chemical




[not my images]


--------------------
bite my basidiocarp


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21413977 - 03/15/15 11:35 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Since Joust is A-WOL...


If you've been casually following this thread, you probably already know that Psilocybin and Psilocin share existence in the generation of blue hues upon mushroom tissue.


Here are their chemical skeletons once again:





There are two other bluing chemicals that I'd like to introduce to you.








These chemicals were studied in the following fungus...











Hint: Both chemicals are acids.


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InvisibleThe Lightning
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #21414197 - 03/16/15 12:28 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I posted despite the previous guess still being un-answered. I had started it several hours ago and got interrupted.


I didn't feel like deleting it or saving it for later.


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InvisibleRuralAnomaly
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Re: Guess The Fungal / Mushroom Chemical ! [Re: The Lightning]
    #21414838 - 03/16/15 07:56 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

yes, Joust must be out ... well... jousting?

its all good - i just wanted my thousandth post to be here
:wink: and pulled out a somewhat dull molecule from an interesting fungus (seemingly low info available on the compound)

yours is much more interesting and i don't blame you one iota


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